>Ice types are lategame

>>32878500
ice types are weak

>>32878500
Why are they always lategame anyway? I don't get it, it's not like they're broken. Is it because the icy areas are always shoved in the last quarter of the game?

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>Ice Types are Late/Endgame and are still the worst type in the game
>Dragon types are Late/Endgame but get fucked by Fairies which can be caught right at the start of the game

>>32879222
Because ice is a broken typing offensively

>>32878500
>>32879222
>>32879231

It's because Gamefreak actually hates Ice types. This isn't some meme, it's been bad since it's inception and it's never been buffed.

My way of buffing them would be making an Ice type Flare Blitz or Scald clone that ONLY Ice types get.

>>32879285
I meant to clarify, the Scald clone would have a 30% Freeze chance.

>>32879285
ice burn would be the shit, imagine a low accuracy frozen version of Toxic exclusive to ice types

>>32879314
Sounds bannable and everybody would hate it
I like it

>>32879285
>This isn't some meme, it's been bad since it's inception and it's never been buffed.
Not as bad off as Grass, which has had all of its status (its sole saving grace) nerfed to the point of near irrelevancy, has had an absorbtion ability spread around even to Water types, and has always, always failed to defeat the types it's supposed to be good against because everything gets coverage that kills Grass no sweat.

>>32879285

Change the way freeze works. We already have sleep.
Instead, freeze now lowers Speed the same way Scald lowers Attack.

>>32881297
>freeze is now worse paralysis

>>32881281
And yet there's still 5 times are many Grass-types in OU than there are Ice-types.

>>32881328
This. GameFreak considers Ice to be a mistake and shits on it on purpose, UNLESS it involves giving Ice Beam, Ice Shard or a useful Physical Ice Move to a Water Type.

>>32879222
They are a delicate, fragile type that requires the player to be relatively knowledgable on how the type chart works

Also the player always starts in a temperate climate, so the ice types have to be pretty north or south of it

>>32879314
Oh! Call it Sleet

>>32881420
>Also the player always starts in a temperate climate, so the ice types have to be pretty north or south of it
The real answer. Icy climates are simply far away from temperate zones, which are always the zones the player starts out in. Even in Sinnoh, which is chillier, is pretty much a temperate zone around Twinleaf Town, saving its actual snowy route for the far north and Mt. Coronet. The only time GF really had an excuse to bring a cold climate closer to the start of the map was Cold Storage in Driftveil City.

If they really wanted an ice dungeon to be available at the start of the game or close to the start of the game, they would either have to start the player off in a colder climate and break the Green Hill Zone trope (which is unlikely) or pull an Alolan Delibird and put Ice types where they don't belong and handwave it.

>>32881297
Make it reduce Special Attack as well.

>>32878500
>>32879222
There was actually a really good article that explains why Ice types tend to be late game Pokemon, and why they're typically designed the way they are. Don't have the link, though.

>>32879283
They really aren't. Ice is resisted by a wide range of types, and the only reason they seem good is because they're godly as a coverage type. Having an Ice move is really good, being an Ice type is awful.

>>32879285
>it's been bad since it's inception
Actually, Ice was one of the best types in Gen I (which is why Pokemon such as Lapras, Articuno and Jynx were so common). The only types that resisted it were Ice and Water, making it by far one of the best attacking types in the game (with only Psychic being better). Blizzard having insanely high accuracy and freezing being a death sentence were the icing on the cake.
Gen I was the only generation where Ice types actually worked as an offense oriented typing, and they were heavily nerfed in Gen II.

>>32881297
Freeze is strictly a better sleep, it's fine as it is now.

I thought it was because Ice can easily steamroll a lot of types that are common early on, primarily Grass and Flying.
Though, when you actually look at the composition of gyms throughout the series, it actually seems like Rock and Fighting are way more busted. I know for a fact that Graveller can dominate almost all of Johto.

>>32882190
edgequake coverage is practically all you need for in-game

>>32881694
This one?
http://www.smogon.com/articles/shafted-by-design

The big issue is most water and fighting types almost always have access to ice moves. The ice stab is rarely ever worth it, with ice shard and weavile being the only ones able to take any advantage of it. With nothing except itself to resist your essentially just adding four weaknesses to whatever you combine it with.

Ice should resist water. Most people complain about this making the analogy that and ice cube will gradually melt in water when really an ice type is a constant source of cold. It's more like a constant freezer then a solitary ice cube. That being said I feel ice and water should resist each other like bug and fighting do. You attack water with ice, it warms up and becomes water doing nothing. You attack ice with water, it freezes and once again does nothing.

I feel ice could resist ground or lose its rock weakness considering it cleaves the world apart in the former of glaciers. I think either could be done and not many would complain.

Lastly I'decided say resist dragon or resist fairy. Dragons and easy one, just say ice is their kryptonite completely. I can't think of any justification for fairy, just that ice already screws one magical fairy tale creature why not another. Also would help with balancing if something else resisted it.

Ithe doesn't need to resist a ton, just have the ability to switch in on anything without being crippled

>>32882322
Making Ice resist Fairy, Dragon, and Ground is the best thing to do, imo. You end up giving Ice extremely useful resists to three powerful types. Making Dragon NFE against Fairy rather than Fairies immune to it also helps bolster Ice as a dragon counter rather than simply using Fairies for everything.

>>32882371
>nerfing dragons even more

>>32882438
>dragons have around 27 resists
>Only 1-2 types resist dragon
>lol pls no nerf
They can take a bit more nerfs

>>32882455
Not with those Fairy-types and with Dragon-types only SE to itself

>>32882304
Ye

>>32881694
>icing on the cake
Kill yourself

>>32882463
>and with Dragon-types only SE to itself
>ignoring coverage moves
>not realizing that a huge part of offensive mons is the amount of damage they can deal with neutral/unresisted hits

>>32882438
I did mention that Fairies would lose their Dragon-type immunity.

>>32882682
Why would you even use dragon moves on fairy types, even if it only resists it?

>>32882688
The point is that Fairies can't just switch in on Dragon-types for free anymore and take a hit to their offensive and defensive prowess. It's a much-needed nerf and while Dragons get a slight buff, they also receive a slight nerf to compensate.

>>32879314
What is Ice Burn?

>>32881297
>Change the way freeze works. We already have sleep.
>Instead, freeze now lowers Speed the same way Scald lowers Attack.
That's absolutely retarded. Freeze should be a Special Attack reducing version of Burn.

There, fixed.

>>32884740
It's like you didn't read at all.

Ice Burn doesn't have a 30% freeze chance.

>>32882304
>http://www.smogon.com/articles/shafted-by-design
>>32881694
>There was actually a really good article that explains why Ice types tend to be late game Pokemon, and why they're typically designed the way they are. Don't have the link, though.
>reading smogon articles
now this is autism

>>32885418
t. Cocksucking nigger

>>32881694
counterpoint: you can get ice moves that you can teach to garden-variety watermons really fucking early

>>32881426
I LIKE THAT!!!

>>32879314
I can see gf doing a move like that, and then they'd give all the water mons that move

>>32881297
PSN > Poison/Steel type immune, lowers DEF medium/high DoT
BRN > Fire type immune, lowers ATK
weak DoT
PAR > Electric type immune, lowers Spe + Low chance to lose turn
SLP > No type immunities, Turn Counter to wakeup (1 to 7)
FRZ > Ice type Immune, 8̶0̶%̶ ̶C̶h̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶l̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶T̶u̶r̶n̶ 40% Chance to lose turn, lowers SpA and SpD.

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>>32878500
>dragon type you really want to use
>isn't even that OP
>it's lategame

>>32888010
[s]Oh shit you can strike out text here?[/s] I'm not a big fan of making Freeze into a Para clone, but at the same time it would be nice to finally be able to inflict it consistently.

>>32888046
l̶o̶o̶k̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶b̶o̶d̶y̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶4̶c̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶G̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶E̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶

>>32888010
>PSN > Poison/Steel type immune, lowers DEF medium/high DoT
>lowers DEF
This breaks the Toxic Spikes, assuming it's a 50% drop like the other statuses.

>>32888080
a̶s̶s̶h̶o̶l̶e̶ Ah, that's too bad for me. Maybe I'll pay for the gold account later.

>>32888010
>>32888080
>>32888103
how

>>32888095
At the same time it doesn't. Steel types have some of the highest DEF of any pokemon and are immune to the TOX and PSN status.

>>32888156
http://fsymbols.com/generators/strikethrough/>>32888046

>all this overly complicated bullshit for a status
Holy fuck, just do what PMD does: make it more reliable, but it breaks if you're attacked.

>>32888046
It would be to PAR as PSN/TOX is to BRN. Lowering the chance to lose a turn would free signifigant power budget for other moves.
Ice Burn > Induces FRZ status (Will-o-Wisp)
Blizzard >30% FRZ chance (Thunder)
FRZ status + Calm Mind is meta for special attackers / walls.

>>32882304
Poor Ice

>>32885418
Fuck off

>>32879222
Because Pokemon is a linear game. And there's never been a region with icy start or mid game.

>>32887652
>really fucking early
The only time this happens is GSC unless you specifically pick Gyarados in 4th gen onward.

>>32888805
Blizzard is around the 3rd/4th gym in DPPt, and Ice Punch/Icy Wind by route 212. I know its not really early but it is around the same timeframe as GSC

>>32888829
Oh yeah, I forgot about DPPt. Probably FrLg too since you can get them with only two badges if you choose.

>>32882371
>Dragon
you mean flying.

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Every single vp faggot comes up with
>ice is weak
>shit typing
>too many weaknesses
>b-but it needs offensive b-buffs!

While it is one of the best offensive types, it was the best offensive type before steel nerf and fairies.

Offensive = 10/10 Top tier
Defensive = 4/10 lower tier

How is this a bad thing?
The only huge problem for ice pokemon are the STATS, not the typing itself.

>Ice type is hyper offense
>they always give them defense and shit speed instead of att/spatt/speed.

This is why Weavile and Mamo are the only solid ice types besides some uber-legends.

You want to fix ice type? fix there stats!

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>>32889215

While you are 1000000% right about this.
You know that gamefreak will never ever change stats.

We can only hope that we get more Ice pokemon like Weavile.

My favorite Pokemon is Regice btw.
feels bad man.