Seriously, why do people play smogon when VGC exists?

I prefer singles to doubles and unironically agree with most of the bans. I still think that Gothitelle isn't deserving of a ban, though.

Why not play both? VGC for big, flashy, 2v2 fights, and Smogon for slow, calculated 1v1 duels.

Because VGC is ass.

I won't play doubles. I just won't.
Singles for life.

Why do people keep thinking that tiers are a bad thing? Pokemon like Golbat and Spiritomb are huge bros of mine and I'm glad that they're usable in RU.

>>32815794
Because they misunderstand that that's the whole point of tiers, to make it so you can use your shitmon bros.

Because doubles are trash and most of the bans are valid. Sleep Clause is the most important thing to have been dropped from the actual games and it should absolutely be reintroduced as an option to include in your battles.

>>32815777
These trips indicate a wisdom seldom seen on /vp

>>32815762
Because singles is the way Pokémon is meant to be played and VGC still refuses to introduce a singles format.

>>32815874
>Because singles is the way Pokémon is meant to be
(not true, by the way)

comparing smogon tiers to VGC is stupid anyway. They're basically two different games, and one can enjoy both. I prefer doubles because games tend to be shorter and there's a greater amount of prediction going on every turn, but I can see why more people get drawn to singles, and the 3v3 used in the battle spot doesn't look that satisfying.

>>32815762
>get tired of all the stupid bans
Yeah, because VGC doesn't ban anything, right?

>>32815952
VGC has a yearly "banlist" which basically defines the format: one year you can use this and that, the next year you're forced to try something else. They never outright ban stuff halfway through the years, even in "solved" formats like VGC15 that needed some heavy rebalancing.

>>32815783
this

>>32815952
>Yeah, because VGC doesn't ban anything, right?
exactly, they don't. You're free to use any pokemon for the most part. Yes every year you're limited to a set (like the alola dex) but no pokemon is outright banned, especially not for retarded reasons like "this pokemon is too hard for me to counter BAN" You have to adapt to the metagame.

vgc sucks because it actually requires thought, prediction, and planning.

smogon you can just stall 2 win

>>32815983
>no pokemon is outright banned, especially not for retarded reasons
Yeah. Instead they ban Phione for completely reasonable reasons because reasons.

>>32816118
event mons are usually banned because they usually are nature locked or have some weird signature move that is not meant for competitive play: they're just "gifts", even though I'd like to see Mew or Jirachi in a tournament environment.

>>32815762
I play Smogon for the lower tiers. It's nice to have some more reasonable, old-fashioned battles without the utter horseshit that most of the Pokemon meta has become.

Plus, sometimes I like to play with pokemon I actually like.

Because Brainlets can't comprehend having to think of an actual strategy that doesn't involve type casting mons into very basic roles and hoping you guessed the switch out correct.

>>32815762
I don't play either. I play pokemon how it was meant to be played: not competitively

>>32815929
98% of any battle you do in any Pokemon game is singles.

>>32815762
>Don't people get tired of stupid bands, tiers and clauses they themselves decide on?
Yeah sounds about right.

File: 1487540044538.jpg (64KB, 674x672px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 674x672px

>>32815929

>double battles didn't even come out until gen 3
>""""""not true""""" that single battle is the way pokemon is meant to be played

nigga u just went past full retard into max retard

>>32816358
I know this is bait, but I suppose you don't use physical and special split either? Since that was a Gen 3 mechanic, not how it was intended obviously. Gen 1 and 2 mons only for you as well? Also I hope you EV or IV train since those aren't how they were intended.

Doubles is the official format and the way Pokemon/Moves/Abilities are balanced is with Doubles in mind.

>>32816381
But what about the entire game where you do single battles

>>32815762
Welcome back wolfpack

>>32816383
What about single-player?

>>32815773
Gothitelle isn't banned. Only Shadow Tag is. You can still use Gothitelle with its other Ability.

>>32816484
newfag here
why is shadow tag banned?

also is smogon 3v3 or 6v6

>>32816609
It can prevent any pokemon that isn't a Ghost type or doesn't also have Shadow Tag from switching. Effectively, it guarentees that if your mon kills something, your opponent can just switch into the Shadow tag mon and get a free kill. It over centralized the game around Shadow Tag mons and mons that can function playing against it.

>>32815992
VGC is like 70% hax

>>32815762
Verlis pls go

>>32816623
why dont you just switch out the shadow tag mon

Doubles is autistic

>>32815983
All mythicals are banned.
Phione is banned for no fucking reason.
At least with smogon you can play with every pokémon. You can play Übers or AG if you don't want a banlist.
Your argument is invalid as VGC bans more Pokémon than smogon. Unless you only play OU. But smogon has different tiers.

>>32816669
???
Why would you... What?!

>>32816609
Lead with focus sash gothorita, encore the opponents lead, switch to gothitelle, trick them a choice item, cm to +6, trick it back, sweep.

Of course they do. You have to realize how small the Smogon playerbase is. People who take competitive Pokemon seriously are rare enough as is. People who conform to Smogon rulings are just a small fraction of them.

Is VGC still only one team everywhere?

I don't hate doubles, but it's really weird that it's considered the main competitive format now, despite it just being a rare treat hardly focused on in the games. Maybe if it was the competitive for a game that had all double battles like Colosseum i would understand.

>>32815762
They both serve different functions

>>32815762
Not everyone likes doubles. I don't. I spend the whole game playing singles in 1-player and then they tell me tournaments are doubles battles, where all the in-game stuff goes out the window? Fuck that.

Smogon isn't much better, they muddy things up with too many rules and shit.
The only true pokemon battle is 6 vs 6 Anything Goes. Doesn't matter if it's broken or unfair, that's the way they made the game.

File: Untitled.png (8KB, 290x432px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 290x432px

Oh yes. Why don't people play VGC? Just look at this varied and healthy meta! Look at those usage stats!

>>32815762
Why should I be tired of different tiers when many of my favourites are NU/RU shitmon which would never be viable in OU?

>>32815762
Smogon offers several different metas including VGC.

>>32816609
6v6

>>32817113
>>32817113
right now it's like 50 shades of 3-4 different archetypes.

>>32816609
The argument is that Shadow Tag fucks up the process of teambuilding in two ways

One being that you could build a team of 5 fantastic Pokemon and a ST user to fuck up whatever stops the other 5

Two being the threat of being completely stopped by a ST carrier means running certain Pokemon becomes a much larger risk than it should be

>>32816381
Maximum scrub retard detected (or which is more likely, sinply underage). A form of IVs in pokémon and EV training has existed since Gen I the only difference being DVs were 1-15 instead of 1-31 and you could max out all the stats with the earlier form of EVs.

Furthermore physical/special split was Gen IV.

love how people say that doubles shouldn't be the official format because there aren't many double battles in the main games while for every game there is hardly more than 2 or 3 6v6 battles. Even when doubles didn't exist yet the few competitive tournaments hosted at the time were in a "bring 6, choose 3 or 4" format.

>>32815762
I play since RBY and I playe competitive since the very first emulator "GS EMU" exists.

THIS is the first time since 20 years of playing pokemon that I agree that Smogon is RIP.

VGC became the better meta.

What happened to this world?

>>32818490
Lando-T

>>32818490
smogon = ou, amirite?

File: image.png (470KB, 600x592px) Image search: [Google]

470KB, 600x592px

>>32817088
>>32816118
to get a phione you need a manaphy, the rules are meant to keep people with arceus from stomping everyone who doesn't have one since mythical pokemon are the most difficult to get legitimately
also
>unironically saying you argument is invalid

>>32815762
VGC isn't really interesting to me. I don't enjoy OU much either, but I always enjoy the lower tiers and the pokemon you can use there.
Still waiting for PU to appear.

>>32816118
Reasons being "not everyone can get this pokemon"

>Listening to a literal fansite about how to play a game you paid for
>Being so cucked that you're afraid of coming up with cheap and broken yet totally legal movesets to rustle people and stomp them to victory
>Not playing the game with the limitations the people who made it set up

Anyone who listens to unnoficial fansite "rulings" is a cuck. If I want to spam double team and baton pass I'll do so as liberally as I want to because I enjoy winning

>>32816609
Shadow Tag was banned because ORAS meta was terrorized by a stupidly broken M-Sableye stall team that used Gothitelle to cripple anything that could threaten the team. The ban turned out to be a mistake because people simply replaced Gothitelle with Dugtrio and Weavile to keep the archetype almost as effective as before. M-Sableye was eventually banned killing stall, but Shadow Tag ban was never rectified, supposedly because it's way too easy to trap and remove various different mons causing the rest of the team problems (anything except Ghost types, who are immune to Shadow Tag).

>>32819810
>>Listening to a literal fansite about how to play a game you paid for
Majority of Smogon players have never bought a single Pokemon game.

>>32817153
Haven't checked the meta in months, but I'm surprised to see how popular Arcanine is. Is it just because Intimidate and Burn Out?

>>32819835
Even more cucked if you ask me. You aren't a real fan if you're using back alley methods to play the game. That goes for injecting doubly so, becuase you're literally paying to not play the game you bought.

The true Pokemon redpill is playing the game how it was meant to be played. I can't wait until injection gets btfo on the switch

>>32819827
M-Sableye ban did not kill stall.

>>32819810
I mean, if I want to play under Smogon rules at times, is that really an issue?
Yes, I can go ahead and play VGC, and if I want to do that competitively, I'll use whatever means I feel are necessary (within the established rules), fun be damned.

Now, not having many rules doesn't necessarily make it fun. Unfortunately, I can't go to VGC to play under a different ruleset that doesn't include specific things that make the game less fun. Then I can just head over to Smogon and play under a different ruleset, or a few.

File: 3ca[1].jpg (126KB, 859x778px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 859x778px

>>32815762
I will take bans making me see different stuff and change how I play if I'm affected over seeing the same stuff over and over in a meta where practically every pokemon is its own counter.

Otherwise, it's practically just a preference choice between singles and doubles.

>>32819810
>Listening to a literal fansite about how to play a game you paid for
Are you aware pokemon showdown exists? Smogon's rulesets aren't meant for battlespot, their "fansite rules" are specifically for their fansite and does not affect people that play on cartridge.

A lot of us hate Smogon because their community has all the typical problems with forums, and if you liked traditional forums, you wouldn't be here.

>>32816381
I heard they used double battles as the VGC format because 6v6 fights take wayyy too long for a tournament to conceivably host.

>>32819911
you know that image comes from like the first official tournament played in the new format which was played by people who probably had been practicing stuff together before that?
If you wanna shitpost on VGC at least do it right and post the VGC15 worlds topcut. That's the real inexcusable shit.

>>32820042
I didn't post those results because it's the best evidence of my point, I posted it because it was the most recent. When I have to either sacrifice more timely proof or more explicit proof, you're putting me in a box, here.

Is the image accurate to the results? Yes. Does it show a lot of the same mons being used? Yes. That's all there is to it. Don't read too deep into which result I posted. I would've attached more than one if I could without coming across as spam.

File: THINKINGG.png (708KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

708KB, 640x640px

>>32815929
>not true by the way

>doesn't show any proof that's it's not true

File: 1417085206717.gif (1MB, 300x255px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 300x255px

>>32820042
VGC2015 makes me wanna throw up.

>>32815762
>Meme format (Everyone but contrarians prefer singles)
>Arbitrary bans (Based on availability rather than viability and centralization)
>Double the luck (Rng is twice as present in VGC)

Make VGC into 6v6 singles with their own bans based on balance rather than event mons and I'll drop Smogon like a hot potato.

>>32820171
Does VGC banned Funbro?

>>32815762
t. Falseflagging smogonfag trying to make VGCbros look bad

>>32820181
Fuck off foreigner

>>32820171
>Double the luck (Rng is twice as present in VGC)
on what statistic basis you make this claim?

>>32820232
VGC is doubles
Doubles has 4 Pokemon on the field
Each Pokemon has a chance to do something unpredictable based on the rng

>>32820232
For moves that hit multiple targets there's two checks for each Pokemon whether accuracy checks or secondary effect checks, luck is more prevalent and defining there. Also missing or being on the receiving end of a secondary effect is twice as punishing

>>32820111
if 6v6 singles was the way pokemon was meant to be played in a competitive environment, then tpci would have made it the official format. Also, as I've mentioned before, there have been pretty much as many 6v6 in-game battles as double battles in the history of the games. Pre-vgc tournaments (of which there weren't many but they were a thing, you can read some articles about that primitive meta-game) used a 4v4 or 3v3 singles format, which is still radically different from the smogon standard.

>>32820103
anecdotal evidence is NOT evidence. You're putting yourself on the same level as those literal retards that claim that VGC is the best format for creativity and "using your bros" because Sejun won worlds with pachirisu in 2014.

>>32820272
Wait what? Isn't claiming VGC was the best format for creativity the opposite of what I was doing? Or are you saying I'm the same thing on the other side in that I think VGC is 100 percent irredeemable dogshit? Because that's not the case. I posted a picture and referenced it, please don't make things more complicated than they are...

Also more importantly, in what world is posting winner results from a recent VGC that people are very likely to copy "anecdotal" evidence? Did I say "I heard" or the like anywhere on this page? Because Ctrl+F says no. Just stop before this becomes a full blown derailment, please.

>>32815762
I want to use Ash-Greninja.

sm*gon sucks but VGC is even worse. It's almost impossible to have an enjoyable time without a ruleset in Pokemon too

>>32817104
What he is saying is why can't you force the Pokemon with Shadow Tag to switch with moves like Whirlwind or Roar?

>>32820254

TPCI doesn't want Pokémon played in a competitive environment.

>>32821476
Good idea, just switch to whoever has Roar and then... oh.

File: 1476887966791.png (260KB, 530x407px) Image search: [Google]

260KB, 530x407px

The only way you faggots will ever, EVER do any effective measure against stall is to ban healing items totally but you little bitches would NEVER EVER allow this even though it would force you to make the game attack based and speed up a lot of drawn out fights.

>>32821875
moves too of course.

>>32816609
muh i cant hard counter it

>>32815762
>clauses
the main reason I play it.
>smogon
the term smogon is so cancer for me as a oldschool competitive player, back in my days it was netbattle or even GS Emulator.

Honestl make VGC level 100 and at evasion,sleep and freeze clauses and I would never use smogon again, except for tests of course.

>>32821875
>no meta where any form of healing is absolutely banned

>>32820111
Burden of proof is on the positive claim.

>not playing with your own mutually agreed upon rules

>>32815762
Smogon players hate VGC because it's unbalanced and luck-based
VGC players hate Smogon because it's slow and stally

There's basically a massive division between the two player bases, and both of them believe and perpetuate myths about the other, making it worse.

>>32816118
As others have said, event Pokémon are mostly banned because of the difficulty of obtaining them.
As well as not wanting people to get too big an advantage from geographical factors, it's also largely to do with the fact that people are more likely to hack their event legendaries compared with other Pokémon, and people who hack Pokémon are more likely to also be able to pirate games.

>>32822337
Freeze Clause is a terrible idea, not even Smogon use it.

If I've just frozen an opponent's Pokémon, and now my opponent switches in Garchomp, why should I be penalised by being afraid to use Ice Beam? If he's focus sash, assault vest or yache berry, he now has a 10% chance of auto-winning because I got the freeze.

Unlike sleep, freeze is exclusively a secondary effect, so it's never anybody's "choice" to freeze all of their opponent's team.

>>32819827
>clauses
>an ice attack attack that has a 10% chance to freeze is banned
>you are punished for using an ice type attack because some fag wanted to win with ez garchomp

>>32824222
Freeze Clause is bad, but Sleep Clause should absolutely be applied.

>singlesfags

LOL I'LL SWAP TO MY FLYING POKEMON CUZ I KNEW YOU WERE GONNA USE EARTHQUEAK XDD

>>32821513
>doesn't want Pokémon played in a competitive environment
What does that even mean? What does it accomplish? It can't be to give people a more even chance, because the better player will always consistently beat the worse player.

>>32819865
What? Since when you need to pay to inject?

HINT: It's no longer 2013.

>>32820103
The most recent tournament was won by fucking Tsareena, your pic is outdated as fuck, as every single pic people post to shit on VGC. Also, didn't Smogon get Smeargle to OU because everyone spammed literally the same team on the low, mid and high ladder? Why does that get a free pass?

people play by Smogon rules because there is nothing else besides Smogon

but you can play however you want; no one's stopping you

it's just that the better strategy tends to get the most wins, and that is what Smogon is, so it's kind of like a big "coincidence", but the coincidence is inevitable

plus there is quite literally nothing else like Smogon

File: 14c.jpg (17KB, 207x253px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 207x253px

>>32825360
>The most recent tournament was won by fucking Tsareena

File: 57c.jpg (147KB, 857x1202px) Image search: [Google]

147KB, 857x1202px

>>32815762

>>32825421
http://www.yuuichi-u1.com/entry/2017/06/20/010920

>>32815762
>Smogonites
>don't lie to themselves and just go ahead and play simulators
>VGCucks
>filthy injector scum

>>32816298
The only correct response.

>>32817579
IVs, EVs, and DVs weren't intended for minmaxing your pokemon for a competitive format, they were entirely introduced solely for the purpose of making each individual pokemon unique in its stat layout. The entire concept of min/maxing those hidden values work antithetical to that original idea.
And since you're arguing that doubles isn't official because double battles weren't originally in the games (meaning the game was originally intended to be played in singles exclusively), that must mean you also hold the belief that minmaxing IVs and EVs should be banned, as it's not what the game intends those hidden stats to be used for.

Because the main series games is 90% singles. If the games played in doubles format then I would play doubles

I like Smogon because I like tiers. The concept of using a meganium and not instantly losing makes me personally happy.

People hate it because they don't like the idea of rules and that's fine. I don't like the idea of bringing a Pokémon I adore and watching it lose all the time to Tapus, Garchomps, Legendaries, and other similar things.

Not stating that they are perfect, no set of rules will make everyone happy. Ever. It's not possible and people will always hate Smogon or whoever replaces them maybe in the future. But I like the concept of tiers and as long as I can have a format where my lose team can play and I have fun... then I'll always support it.

(I like VGC too granted because I like competition and it's what Nintendo supports)

>>32819911
Viva España.

Hide VGC threads
Ignore VGC threads
Do not reply to VGC posters

>>32826614
someone make an edit of this, please, ok

>>32826690
Smogon is cool, VGC too. Why can't we have both? None is necessarily superior to the other. They are basically two different games which appeal to different kind of players.

File: file.png (5KB, 372x289px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 372x289px

>>32826690
I tried

File: hide VGC threads.png (304KB, 1303x892px) Image search: [Google]

304KB, 1303x892px

>>32826878
ups

>>32826887
Saved.

>>32815762
What I do Get bored of is going on battle spot and fighting nothing but primals and uber legendaries.

Even if I do get tired of OU I'll just play in a lower tier. Smogon PU is the only place Armaldochan can shine

>>32826887
kek

>>32826978
If you're so adamant on playing unrated battles, then just pick the option that doesn't allow cover legends. It might ban mythicals too, but I haven't tried it.

>>32819911
>alohan Marowak high usage

oh so this is taken from the first VGC tourney?

>>32827016
Literally the first. This is all the "proof" these people have.

File: 1497438723739.png (48KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 600x600px

>>32826887
>age: 35
kek it's perfect

>>32815983
Megas aren't allowed right now.

>>32815777
Trips of elder god wisdom

>>32826887
nice (not) trips, now someone make another for smogon

File: 1500x500.jpg (119KB, 1500x500px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 1500x500px

>he doesn't know that smogon has taken over VGC as well

>make fun of the overuse of Arcanine, the tapus and porygon
>"haha, VGCfags are so unoriginal!!!"
>make fun of the overuse of Garchomp, Ferrothorn, Greninja and Charizard
>"well the meta is rotated around a complicated system of gameplay and reads, so using these pokemon is totally justified if used properly"

why is it that singles players are justified when something is grossly overused, but in doubles, it's a sin that "ruins the competitiveness of pokemon". The internal fighting between Singles and doubles is hilariously sad, reminds me of the Melee community with literally every other Smash game.

>>32827182
don't forget Landorus-T, Scizor and Tapu Lele/Fini

>>32827190
Lando-T doesn't have 75% usage.

>>32827196
>he uses percentages instead of numbers
>he does not understand the way that numbers work towards calculating percentage

there's more players in OU than in VGC by a gigantic number difference

>>32827196
Lando has like 40% usage while the second most used Pokemon has like 10%. Taking that into account and the wide pool of options, the ratio is much worse than Arcanine's in VGC17

>>32827165
both comunities looks like is made off rapists

>>32815777
>best post itt
>ignored because all /vp/ want's to do is argue all the time

seriously, if you don't like one play the other, what do you gain from shitting on the other side?

Why do I even come here anymore

>>32815762
They're practically identical. You see the same fucking Pokemon every time. VGC just requires slightly more thought because it's Doubles, but Singles is just way more appealing. VGC is also restrictive af, so DOU is better.

probably late to the thread but I used to play vgc but sun and moon lags with doubles

gross

smogon is cool tho bc muh PU boyes

>>32815762
listen only the cool kids know that anything goes is the one true pokemon mode

>>32827366
Actually, that mostly happens in single player. Online battles for some reason don't have nearly as much lag.

>>32827390
this

>>32827411
is that so?
TIL.
god, the lag in game was so bad I basically stopped after red/blue battle without trying online doubles.

>>32827448
Online runs at 15fps instead of the usual 10fps.

>>32827196
over-inflated usage stats and samey-looking teams are due to the fact that VGC has tournaments with top cuts where eventually the best mons in the format are more used. If Smogon OU had a tournament circuit like VGC the topcut teams would probably look pretty similar to one another too.

>>32827999
OU does have tournaments though.

>>32828039
But the format is majorly a ladder, not 90% based on tournaments.

>>32825499
I actually really enjoy PU, if only because it feels like anything can happen there.

>>32828216
Yeah but if you wanted to create an image like >>32819911 to shitpost with you can.