I like Sun and Moon. Why do you hate it, /vp/?

The haters are just loud and obnoxious.

Might end up being the most memorable game in the series for me.

>>32765029
Unskippable cutscenes and handholding. It takes you 45 minutes to get to the first pokecenter, and the entire first island feels like a tutorial.

Apart from that they're pretty good desu. Cool pokes, and I like that they're trying out new things with the trials.

I personally loved these games, probably my favorite gen thus far

I'll start by giving you my bullet points without going in depth.

>terribly streamlined and lackluster level design, by far the worst in the series yet
>awful writing and yet the narrative is hyper-prominent
>new auxiliary content and features are bad

Among numerous miscelleanous nitpicks like the downgraded fishing, trainer customization, online, framerate issues and other things.

>>32765029
Pelipper, Magikarp, Hao saying, "lol, don't explore the new city because I want to talk to you," Lillie saying, "I know you want to explore and Hao just kept you talking for 8 hours, but please listen to me ramble on and stop you exploring," literally 30 minutes from when you defeat Kukui to when you can save and quit.

>>32765128
>awful writing
It was quite good for Pokemon standards, I thought.

>Actually, Aether Foundation is a protection racket in cahoots with Team Skull

This is the best (possibly the only) plot device they have ever used, and it was genuinely a surprise to me.

I felt like they actually hired writers to punch up the English dialog, as there were quite a few memorable moments for me. It's not going to win any literature awards but I thought it was delightful, for a Pokemon game.

>>32765170
>it was genuinely a surprise to me.
Are you retarded? Am I being baited?

>>32765029
/vp/ has shit taste

File: Gordon-Freeman-on-Half-Life-1-box-cover-gordon-freeman-25689139-500-645.jpg (407KB, 500x645px) Image search: [Google]

407KB, 500x645px

>game doesn't throw you into action straight away
I literally can't even, how could they get away with this?

>>32765170
>It was quite good for Pokemon standards
I don't give Game Freak mercy points for outdoing themselves when they should outdo other creators in the industry. If people think the SM story is good because older games set the bar so low, then that's just another minus point for it.

As far as I'm personally concerned, narrative has no place in Pokémon. I want the absolute minimum that Gens 1 and 2 had, but I would like to see plenty of optional and hidden lore like with Sea Mauville and large sidequests like the Looker Quest as long as they're optional.

>>32765195
They did foreshadow Lusamine being involved with something nefarious. What I didn't know was that Aether's activities (and therefore Lusamine's experiments) were only possible because of Team Skull, which Lusamine deliberately allowed to thrive.

The idea of Aether as a protection racket was neat to me.

File: image.png (151KB, 1000x630px) Image search: [Google]

151KB, 1000x630px

>>32765213

>Create trials
>Make them less of a trial than gyms

>>32765219
>if it's not the best in the industry it's bad
It's a game for ten-year-olds, but even given that fact, it was good. Every other story has been bad, with the possible exception of BW2.

>As far as I'm personally concerned, narrative has no place in Pokémon.
I didn't know this opinion existed until S/M, when up until then a common complaint was the barebones stories. I was one of those. I was happy that this attempt was pretty good for a children's game.

>>32765029
I'd reason that a lot of distaste for Sun and Moon comes from the fact that they received so much applause. They're not bad games, but they have their fair share of problems that have already been mentioned in this thread. But I have a feeling that a very slow first section is going to become a recurring trend in games (at least RPGs) as time moves on, because games these days are bloated with so many particulars to the combat that some time has to be set apart to explain how to play and all the different ways you can play, and something like that is better to get out of the way sooner rather than later. Another example of this is Persona 5, wherein my strongest but only gripe (so far) was how long it took for Morgana to fuck off and stop telling me all of the different shit I could do. He really didn't need to, considering the introduction handles it just fine.

Anyway, back on topic. Sun and Moon's story, for the most part, is something that's been done before. I mean this more so than in any other Pokemon game. At the end of the day, it's basically just the Black and White duology(?). Lillie and her character arc stand out as the most prominent if not the only differential part of the story.

Also, I personally am half and half on Alola forms. I feel like they're a logical expansion upon the biosphere diversity Pokemon has been trying to show since Generation 4, they're mostly just replacements for new content. This Vulpix may be an Ice-type, now and yes, it's pretty, but it's still just a Vulpix at the end of the day. Not only do they represent an appeal to one's nostalgia, they reflect a reservation to commit to new Dex lineup ideas. Furthermore, there's not a lot of them. If one exists for a Pokemon that's not from Kanto, it slips my mind.

This next point might sound like I'm contradicting myself, but I'm not. I think Z-Moves are okay, but I really wish GF would stop (to be cont.)

>>32765312
This next point might sound like I'm contradicting myself, but I don't mean to.

I think Z-Moves are okay, but I really wish GF would stop adding in new gimmicks and fine tune what's already there. After spending so much time getting used to Mega Evolution (and Mega Evolution in and of itself being the product of several games' worth of foreshadowing) I feel like it should have remained a point of prominence in later games. I guess maybe they felt like they couldn't take it much farther after OR/AS, but it still would have been nice to not have it relegated to the back burner.

Z-Moves are much less personal. They're staples between each type, with special ones reserved for certain Pokemon, but I think that's corny. I'm sure there are probably other people that feel the same way.

That being said, I like Pokemon Sun and Moon. Even if they do feel like an exercise in hand holding. I don't like calling Tauros, but I appreciate that it's incorporated into the level design. Furthermore, Sun and Moon actually feel and operate like a fully 3D game, as opposed to X and Y, wherein the transition was awkward and the 3D world was still structured like the 2D world of its predecessors.

>>32765279
Sun and Moon's story is literally BW/BW2 though.

>>32765360
How the fuck is S/M's story anything like BW2's?

>>32765360
BW/BW2 has better characters, an awesome climax, and are written far better than Sun and Moon's story. They also have far less cutscenes to show shit and you feel actually important to the story instead of a side-character to someone else.

>>32765418
>N
>Ghetsis
>Lusamine
>Gideon
>Lillie

>Organization says it cares about Pokemon.
>Antagonists tho

>>32765029
I don't hate it, and I had fun with it and even replayed it a few times, it's just kind of lackluster especially for the 20th anniversary games.

File: meganium.png (31KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 200x200px

>>32765441
>Gideon

At least PRETEND you know what you're talking about

I'd like it more if it didn't feel like one narrow route that stops you from exploring because they don't want you to miss the story. I mean, don't get me wrong, I really love a good story, but story is not what I go into a Pokemon game to experience, especially since story in Pokemon games doesn't go outside of the template for them all. In Pokemon, it's just the cherry on top of the exploration cake. But without the cake, it's just annoying.
When the whole purpose of the series, of the genre, is to explore and catch, but then you're constantly stopped from exploring to find things to catch, it makes you wonder what the point is. Just let me do the story when I want to move forward, don't corral me so I'm forced to wait 20 minutes for the next bit of dialogue to end when I just want to explore the bit of grass right next to where the cutscene is, or worse, is behind me but was blocked off until I sat through the story bit for no reason.

>>32765029
I like these games too, but as a rule of thumb on the internet, the people that dislike something are always going to be louder than the people who like it.

I enjoyed a lot of things from SM, and I'll gladly talk about them whenever a thread for it is brought up. There are things I disliked too, and I can understand all of the arguments about SM's flaws, but if the things that bothered others while playing the game didn't really bother me, then I don't really care.

SM's flaw are Festival Plaza which is just a bad join avenue, deleting PSS, and shitty post game content. (Leveling post league is tedious and boring, farming BP as well since fucking Battle Tree is the same shit we had in Gen VI.)

It's not like it's bad, just that it doesn't feel like it's finished.

>>32765559
It's not finished. It got rushed out for 20th. USM will be the finished version of SM with a few changes to make it seem like a different game.

>>32765029
I like it too. Only legitimate gripe is not being able to skip cutscenes but personally doesn’t bother me.

>>32765029
The story was pretty awful. Lillie was a snore fest the entire time, I knew exactly what kind of character she was going to be. She really didnt click with me at all mainly because GF has this habit of just having every single character get on their knees and suck your dick because of how apparently great you are.

Gladion had a lot of potential and I thought it was kind of funny how they made him so over the top edgy on purpose, but his presence lacked any real meaning in the story. Really outside of 'helping' you battle in team aether, they could of kept him out of the story all together and things would of been relatively the same.

Hau was much better then having the 4 bloated moron friends from x and y, and he was funny when he was a snarky shit, but once again just another sort of overly happy friend character. Nothing great nothing bad, just typical.

The actual characters I cared about were the villains. Team skull was wonderfully entertaining and the Aether Foundation, when the actually made a real impact in the story, was a lot of fun to fight since they didnt stay with the typical zubats and slowbros or whatever. However the leaders Guzma, Plumeria and Lusamine were criminally given way to little screen time. When Guzma finally shows up, he has about an island worth of story and then thats it. When he didnt do anything more in Ultra Space, I was literally taken back because I had assumed we were gonna get into some real shit. Fuck I dont even remember a single thing Plumeria did. I wanted to know her relationship with Guzma but they pretty much shoved her out of everything. Lusamine had a similar issue with Guzma, and despite the excuses some would make, not having you battle her Ultra Beast form as some sort of intense, use your full team to take down a single mon sort of boss battle was a massive let down for me.

Painful Dialogue and unskippable cut scenes also really killed the enjoyment one may of had.

>>32765029
No Psychic types.

>>32765233
>People thought it was going to be a way for there to be more interesting and challenging boss fights
>Instead its just one encounter with an easy doubles gimmick

>>32765029

It kind of felt sterile, boring, and soulless, but not as bad as XY.

At least it got rid of HMs, for which it gets a 98/100 automatically.

>>32765726
At least Hau saw actual character development. He got way more serious as the game went on when he realized he couldnt beat you.

Great games for me. Not perfect but great.

No gyms. Not even after establishing a league.

Long cutscenes. I liked the very story driven nature of SM but the cutscenes were a bit much.

A bit handholdy. I want to be able to explore more freely.

>>32765726
cont.

The region felt extremely small. Since it was chopped up into different islands, the world felt like a small group of routes together rather then a large world it usually does.
Not to mention the pokemon placement was really fucked up for a lot of mons. Grubbin and Crabrawler were found very early on but literally could not evolve until nearly end game, making most drop them before they could get to the final evolution. Pokemon like Bounsweet and Jangmo-o were found pretty much just 1 or 2 levels away from evolving instead of being set much earlier in the game where the progression would of felt much more natural.
This also seemed to be the first pokemon generation to feel rather ashamed of its pokemon, because all the new ones were pretty much impossible to find without clearly knowing where to look. So many ended up having 5% spawn rates, so if you were going through the game blind, you would more then likely end up missing probably 50% of the already tiny percentage of new pokemon Alola introduced.
This is of course stacked up ontop of the fact that most of the new pokemon are all pretty terrible stat wise with only a handful actually having access to any sort of speed stat. The rest end up sitting a strange 60 or lower speed, while having awkard low defense stats or just boring mono type typings. I dont know why they felt the need to make so many slow "Bulky" grass types.

Dhelmise and Decideye both being Ghost Grass was a huge mistake in my eyes. The owl was leaked 5 months in advanced and I never saw anyone guess Grass/Ghost. It really feels they just slapped it on to make it different. Not to mention, we now have 4 grass/ghost types that all focus in physical attacking.

Finally, alolan mons were a joke. They started out with some really cool designs, but things like Alolan Golem feels like they rushed the last few out by gluing a few random bits to the original design (odd considering there are like only 11 of em)

>>32765029

What they did to Vikavolt

File: 1453425816210.jpg (492KB, 524x530px) Image search: [Google]

492KB, 524x530px

>>32765828
>would of

>>32765799
They missed a huge opportunity with letting you do 8 gyms in the post game. Like a GSC sort of thing.

>>32765828
Some pokemon had very strange progressions. The starters especially.

Popplio was the lesser of the three evils here. It was sort of odd it went from such a gender neutral 1st stage to a very female oriented design from 2nd and 3rd. But the good thing about its 2nd form being so indicative of its final form was that anyone playing blind would get an idea of what Primarine would be and could box it if they werent enjoying the look.

Same thing couldnt be said about Torracat, who gave you the impression you were going to be staying on all fours but then turned on a dime to turn into Incineroar. Atleast Pignite stood up on 2 legs to let the player know it was going to be a bipedal.
As discussed before, Decideye's type change felt unwaranted, especially considering Rowlet and Dartrix really didn't need to have the flying type since it was going to change anyways. They stood on the ground the whole time anyways so not like you would need to explain much.

Pikpek's line was everywhere. It went from a multi hitting wood pecker (which makes sense), to a song singing bird that changes its beak shape to make musical sounds (but still has Skill-link for some reason?), to becoming a toucan that super heats its beak to burn its foes (why was this not a fire/fly?). It felt like they should of been separate evolutionary lines if they really couldn't make up their mind this much.
>>32765877
I'm typing this all up rather quickly before bed. Give me a break fella.

>>32765873
What's worse, the speed or the fact you wait until almost the end of the game to evolve it?

I was so hyped waiting for my Charjabug to evolve, until I got to about level 40 and started wondering what the hell was going on.

>>32765888
I agree with everything you've said. I just hate when people type "would of."

I wouldn't have minded a Fire/Flying Toucannon. Make it the slow, heavy-hitting counterpart to Talonflame. That really goes to a lot of Alolamons, like you touched on. So many missed opportunities for unusual type combinations and they just whiffed. Why the hell was Bounsweet's final evo not Grass/Fighting?

>>32765029
I'm going to try and explain why I personally think they're mediocre games. A lot of the points have already been iterated (since they're valid points) and I won't talk about things I haven't really tried like bean man's island and festival plaza.

First of all, there are framerate issues. Really bad ones at times. I understand that this is an RPG but the performance issues are so bad that they take several seconds for the game to complete an action at times which is honestly unacceptable. It even starts to chug at times when you're exploring the overworld.

Second, the cutscenes. This is always mentioned (and for good reason). There are a lot of times where the game stops you to the point where it starts damaging the gameplay. For island 1 and 2 and parts of 3 you almost cannot do anything without someone showing up to talk to you. This isn't even counting the tutorials - why are there so many of them? Why is it so difficult to add on a toggle that turns them off? Surely Gamefreak realizes a huge part of their target demographic have played their fucking games before. A tutorial or two is fine, but the amount of them in SM - again - breaks up gameplay. Let me play a video game already, Gamefreak.

Third, the difficulty. It being more difficult than XY and ORAS with Exp Share on is not impressive. Most trainers have one or two Pokemon and the "tougher" trainers have either busted AI or shit-tier coverage. It makes steamrolling the game very easy. I don't want some kaizo-tier game but at least fill their fucking movesets. This extends to totems - they're simply reskinned gyms and in most cases easier to boot.

>>32765956
cont

Fourth, the size of the game itself. This also refers to the region design. Simply put, it's small. Very small. It's so small that the game could be smashed through very quickly if it weren't for the constant dialogue pit stops. There are also even less areas to explore than even XY (which is hilarious, I can't believe they managed to top that). Ultra Space also suffers from this - it's one long corridor with a cutscene at the end.

Fifth, the Pokemon distribution. A lot of Alola Pokemon are difficult to find and are overshadowed by other Pokemon in the game. It makes it feel like this game has nothing to offer but a small region and some story. It also draws attention to how utterly small the amount of new Pokemon really is - a quarter of them are legendaries. How the fuck did you trump gen 4 in this regard?

There's probably some other things I'm forgetting, but that's why I find them mediocre. I'd talk about the story but I don't really care about it beyond the dialogue it shoves in my face. One thing that did annoy me is Hapu saying it was okay for Lillie to not be a trainer. That was utterly retarded, you don't go through six generations where you NEED to be a trainer to do anything and then say it's okay to not be able to do fucking squat.

>>32765029
It's such a damn small, linear region with a focus on narrative, but no good writing to back that narrative up. It's also disappointing because you have so many good ideas; a region based on Hawaii, Aether and Team Skull, old island deities, an alien invasion, all that good shit, but they have either terrible or just boring execution. And then there's the fact that they cut a bunch of old features for no reason, and the new ones aren't that good.

>>32765897
Charjabug still hits pretty hard though considering it was not only a second stage but one of the "cocoon" Pokemon. I was pretty pissed when I had to wait so long to evolve it for basically no reason but I was surprised to see it still perform relatively okay for most of the game.

>>32765944
Honestly the thing that got me the most about this generation's new Pokemon was all of the single stages. I think it had a higher percentage of lines with only one stage than any other generation. I think that if there were a few more evolutions for mons that needed it not only would they be much stronger but it wouldn't feel so lacking either, it would at least compete with GSC. There were almost no three stagers either, it's like they went out of their way to cut evolutions out to keep the dex number artificially low while still keeping a normal amount of lines.

I'm going to sound like a genwunner here but in the older games, if there was a line that could use another evolution but it might be okay without it, fuck you we're doing it anyway and it's going to be awesome and everyone will love it. There just isn't that kind of motivation anymore with the new designs. And back when you had three stages to go through you actually got a feel of your Pokemon growing up, when for a single stage if you ever breed it they're born full-grown. Nowadays if they can get away with a single stage or maybe two they do it, hence the Alola mons being much weaker and feeling incomplete. If something like Komala or Comfey was made in Gen 1 they would give it an evolution just for kicks, who gives a fuck if it doesn't make sense, they'll make it work somehow and it'll be great. Now?
>Wahh, it doesn't make sense for them to evolve, we're just going to leave it like this, not every Pokemon should be competitively viable, waahh.
XY started this mess but SM was much worse in it, although in my opinion SM did some other things right and at the very least beats out DP and XY.

I swear though, if we had just 10 fucking extra Pokemon this generation but they were all evolutions, I would have no problem.

File: 1458133995612.jpg (41KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 640x360px

>>32765029
>Cutscenes galore
>Game shits itself when there are more than 2 pokemon on the screen
>Most idiotic plot in the franchise, and that's including the R/S/E eco-terrorists and the X/Y fashion snobs who want to blow up the world to make it pretty
>Lillie is the fucking personification of a cancerous tumor
>No National Dex
>Festival Plaza
>Endless Genwunner pandering
>Almost no endgame
>won't let me marry Hau

I liked the improvement to the overworld and the trials concept.

I hated how empty was alola, hawaii had so much potential to be one of the best and most unique regions, with lots of jungle, forests, caves, water routes, volcanic places, culture-ish places with a fucking lot of tikis and shit, but we got a rushed game instead.

>>32765029
I don't
although i agree with this guy >>32765082 albeit i didn't mind too much

>>32765029
Especially because of your pic.

File: 1495064240709.jpg (138KB, 1214x749px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 1214x749px

>>32765082
>the first island tutorial meme
Why do I feel like I was the only one who NOT noticed this?

>>32765029
Shit post-game, the rest is fine tho

>No end game
I can tolerate the other moderately bad things, but this is the most annoying in any pokemon game and games that do this need to stop.

>>32765029
They have the same problems all Pokemon games have, all generation debut games have, and a few of the problem X&Y and to lesser extent black and white had.

I liked them okay though.

File: IMG_4192.png (1MB, 640x1136px)

1MB, 640x1136px

>>32765029
Uuuuggghh, you really had to ask this? They post daily their reasons for disliking it, flooding vp with cancer.

The game was fucking good imo. You're a newfag, OP. Arguing with these stubborn, always complaining fucks is pointless. Why couldn't you have posted a "What was good about SM?"

>>32765029

Actually, if you exclude pokebarneyfag so, you 99% of /vp/ loved it. It's the best received game the board ever had actually, since it was created.

>>32765082
>>32765128

>those posting times
>those old pastas without going in detail (since she never played it and cant name a thing)

pokebarneyfag, you were nicer to watch when you pretended to hate ORAS, at the very least post your tits again if you're staying around to more shilling.

>>32766351
It really seems like GF is deathly afraid of reaching the 1000 Pokemon mark, and I don't know why. Hell, it's the reason why people play these games. Sure, the regions and locations are interesting, but nobody really plays Pokemon for that. They play it for the Pokemon. And waifus/husbandos.

If I went back in time and told my 5 year old self, "In the future, instead of 151, there will be almost 1000 different Pokemon to use," I don't think the little bastard could handle it. He'd piss himself with excitement, asking me all about them.

It feels like Game Freak is slowly changing the games for the worst, just to appeal an idealized version of children. Regions have become linear because of Mt. Coronet, but adding some difficulty means they are more likely to ask their friends for help. And kids love to brag about stupid little achievements like getting through places alone. After getting shitted on for only having Unovan Pokemon in B/W, they're going the opposite direction and pushing all of the older mons in front of the newer ones. It's the fact that there are so many choices that make replaying the games worth it. Facilities and other content are being cut because "few people would be interested in them" while it is those types of things that will keep people interested.

Game Freak have to stop thinking that they have to compete with smartphones/tablets/whatever and start thinking about making games so interesting that there is no contest. Games that make you say "I could play a game on my phone, or I could do a few more battles instead." It makes me wish that Yokai Watch exploded with more popularity just to push Game Freak even more.

>>32767027

Agreed with you, I'm surprised she's back already since E3 just ended. Guess they must pay well

>>32766987
>end instead of post
>theres still more postgame than every previous game but the johto ones and black 2

I see they're using interns again today.

>>32767040
Yep, surprised me too. I guess I triggered her since she posted this massive wall of copypasta again:>>32767034

That's crimsonkyuren level of underaged autism, knowing the shilling behind it makes it even sadder.

>>32765029
just beat moon. it was fun, campy, and colorful. lot of new interesting concepts that'll probably get more attention in USUM. the cutscenes were cool and felt really jrpg-ish but then again im not an autist with add who spergs out while reading unskippable dialogue boxes. i made a thread a couple of weeks ago asking about it and got so many scare-mongering replies that made it seem like the game was just utter garbage but the main complaints seem to be that gamefreak bothered to change their formula a bit and didn't make a pure gen1/gen2 clone to appeal to their nostalgia.

>>32767055
Nigga, what? I just got into the thread and typed that. Are you telling me that you're okay with GF making less Pokemon, linear regions, and less content?