Retrospectively, why was Lucario a success and Zoroark a complete

Lucario is a good Pokemon, Zoroark isn't.

Zoroark's entire gimmick is being mistaken for another Pokémon at first.

Zoroark was impossible to get.

Lucario was impossible to NOT get.

As simple as one being shoved down every kid's throat and the other only being available to anyone dedicated enough to try and get one.

>>32696932
Zoruas were easily available on the GTS.

>>32696912
This.

They hand you a Lucario for free on Iron Island.

Zoroark is event-only in BW1 and only available in BW2 as N's Zorua.

>>32696945
We're talking about kids.

>>32696970
who do you think makes the shit offers on gts? kids

>>32697007
Exactly.

Female Zoroak in the movie

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>>32697048
Movie Lucario was massively instrumental in popularizing the species.

Also made literal millions of furries.

>>32696945
as in not through regular gameplay - and that certainly was not the case in the first month of the game's release in japan

I know because I preordered the damn thing while I was living there and I was trying my damndest to get a fucking zorua

>>32696872
Lucario is good ingame. Zoroark is shit ingame.

>>32696956
It's actually a riolu in an egg, and idk about other people but I literally didn't give a shit what was in the egg and boxed it.

Zoroark is more animalistic, Lucario is more cartoony and kid friendly.

Also Lucario is portrayed as sort of a DBZ style fighter with energy blasts and shit that pokemons target audience loves while Zoroark is a stealth type.

>>32696872
Lucario was presented as a badass in its debut film as well as being voiced by Sean Schemmel, Zoroark was depicted as a weaksauce parent instead of the edgy villain mon from the trailers.

>>32697048
movie zoroark was great though

>>32696872
Zoroark was not available ingame for a regular, twelve year old player.
Zoroark is nowhere near as powerful in a single player experience as Lucario
Lucario has "aura" powers, which is already autist territory, and shoots dbz lasers, while Zoroark is your average 3th level gnome illusionist.
Zoroark was pushed as the NEXT lucario, instead of as a pokemon as its own entity
Zoroark is "edgy" while Lucario is "heroic"

I dunno, probably some other shit too.

>>32696932
Optional Level 5 riolu egg that evolves by happiness late game when you're nearing or at level 40s isn't that forced.

Zoroark was simply a shit design from an unpopular gen.

Lucario = Britney Spears
Zoroark = Ashlee Simpson without the little bits of success

>>32699085
>blasting with lasers is more fun than fucking around with illusion magic
found the 4th edition babby

>>32696872
Because you're a fucking faggot. Zoroark was never meant to be a "Lucario". Lucario was never meant to start an archetype trend. Case in point; where's the furry canine warrior from Kalos?

Literally the ONLY similarity is that they're both vaguely canine in design. They have nothing else that unites them besides the fact that they are Pokemon and they have a pre-evolution.

Lucario was revealed as part of a batch of new Pokemon. Zoroark was THE first Pokemon of its gen revealed. Lucario was featured in a shitton of movies and prominently in the games. Zoroark was a focal point in ONE movie because of its unique ability. What, are you going to tell me Entei is the same archetype? Fuck off.

>>32697177
>HER FACE WHEN FEATHERED
HOW CAN FURRIES EVEN COMPETE? DIE YIFFFAGS GET CAW'D!

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why not both

>>32696872
She has some great porn at least, at i don't even like furry.

Yes, SHE, i filter faggot shit.

>>32699226
how do you know it's a she and not an illusion

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They both attract furries, Lucario just attracts more.

>>32696872
because lucario actually has a good design

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>>32699560

>you could actually play with Lucario in DP
>Zoroark was locked behind an event in BW

Not to mention Zoro's useless ability.

>>32696872
Lucario had an insane amount of push because of the DP delay which is why it made an appearance in the side games like Mystery Dungeon along with Munchlax and Bonsly. It also made it into Smash as a playable character.
Zoroark was pretty much just in the movie and had some Pokemon Sunday sketches and what not.

>>32696932
It was actually really easy to not have a Lucario until X/Y.

The Riolu egg in D/P/P is optional.

Wild Riolu appeared in one area of B2/W2, and were also rare spawns.

>>32699606
I had that celebi needed to get the zorua in castelia. I also had one of the shiny legendary dogs to get the zoroark. the problem was that I didn't know how to transfer them because getting the relocator was cryptic as fuck

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I want playable Zorua in the next Mystery Dungeon

>>32699041
Not in the way that makes it popular.

>>32699606
>useless
In competitive sure, but tricking that psychic elite 4 to use psychic on my Zoroark disguised as my Emboar will always be a special moment in the games for me

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>>32699690
>First thing Lucario does in the movie is blindrun using its aura sense and finds Ash who of course has innate aura powers
>Spends entire movie fighting off a trio of legendaries by itself
>Noble sacrifice trope at the end
>Entire movie playing to a grand plot to save Mew

>Zoroark movie is about seperation of a mother and her child
I guess you're right. I enjoyed both Zoroark and Zorua in the movie though.
Zoroark for being a badass angry mom and Zorua for being a mischievous little shit like a kid with illusory powers would be.

>>32699146
>Case in point; where's the furry canine warrior from Kalos?
By then TPC realized their failure in Zoroark and pumped up the Lucario-levels instead (free handout + mega form).

Also Greninja, Lycanroc, Incineroar, Decidueye and maybe even Salazzle hit similar target ballparks.

>>32696872
zoroark was designed to fail:
event
event needs eventmons from sinnoh
feminine design but starter gender-ratio
cool-on-paper but poorly executed ability
lacking movepool to disguise well

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>>32699146
>where's the furry canine warrior from Kalos?

>>32699791
>fire elemental blood origin sorcerer
>warrior

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>>32699146
>Case in point; where's the furry canine warrior from Kalos?
Right here

Lycanrock is the Alolan one if you need to ask

They made Zoroark too special. Most players probably never got to use it. Additionally, it's not as strong competitively as Lucario was, and its main gimmick is harder to translate into something like Smash.

>>32696872
Well for starter Lucario doesn't look like a huge edgelord, but on top of that Lucario got a movie with fucking Mew in it where he looked like a total baddass. Plus he was in smash taking Mewtwos spot, he was set up to succeed.

Lucario is a much better design than Zoroark. It also had a much better movie, and at the time it was released it was a unique design, by that I mean, there had been no bipedal canine Pokemon before. Zoroark just feels uninspired on all counts. And it's kinda ugly.

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>>32699807
>sorcerer can't be a warrior 'cuz my DnD archetypes

>>32699844
Well, I forgot about Granbull, but he's got that bulldog face going on, so he really looks absolutely nothing like Lucario anyway.

>>32699844
lucario has a shit design and is the epitome of "unnecessary design elements" from gen 4 along with garchomp

his movie is furfag bait
>zOMG AURA POWERS THIS REMINDS ME OF STAR WARS
>soloing multiple legendaries
>I SACRIFICED MYSELF SO YOU KNOW IM A HERO RIGHT? HA HA
>also we set up ash having further mary sue powers for use later on

zoroark's design is pretty much spot on for what it's supposed to be based on, which is the many dickish fox yokai known for fooling people by shapeshifting

>>32699807
By that logic, Lucario's a sorcerer too.

>>32699905
nah, there are variants of monk that get access to spells

The fucking movie, Lucario literally sacrificed himself to save Mew(the most well known Pokemon outside of maybe Charizard). If that isn't enough to make him popular nothing will, it's actually fairly genius when you think about it.

Plus he has a really cool Move-Set and is a Wolf.

Zoroark is still shilled in the TCG though.

>>32699938
>lucario is a wolf
what

>>32699965
can I fuck her
id like to fuck her

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Zoroark is objectively a better design than Lucario. Lucario is garbage. The stupid puffy pants, stupid hook tail, stupid mouth that turns his muzzle into a big jew nose, head dildos, tiny torso, nonsensical spikes and rubber shit. Doesn't look remotely like a steel type and has no coherent theme or direction. At best it's a clusterfuck of disjointed ideas slapped together into a bad Sonic OC.

Zoroark can at least be described as "kabuki trickster fox," a cohesive combination of themes, and its design, type and abilities reflect all that. Zorua's design is Lucario levels of awful in the plastic toy department, but Zoroark looks alright with the natural looking fur, detailed anatomy and color blending.

Lucario is more popular because it was more accessible and Gamefreak pushed it harder with its movie, spinoffs and merch. Simple as that.

>>32699961
>Lucario is a dog/wolf/jackal-like Pokémon

Am I wrong?

>>32699961
Lucario is certainly a Wolf.

>>32699985
Ahhh, the impotent wails of the hipster.

>>32700022
The non-argument of the braindead shiteater.

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>>32699985
Zorua is a fairly generic cutemon design but I love it for what it is. Zoroark's design is more coherent to its inspiration which is cool. The little makeup markings and as well as the big hair I believe?

>>32699990
>>32700010
its a jackal

>>32699985
It's almost like taste is subjective. Wait...

>>32697222
The guy specifically tells you it's a Riolu egg, and that it evolves into Lucario. No one cares if you "didn't give a shit" because thats not what we're talking about right now.

>>32700045
>appeal to subjectivity
You can like it all you want, but it's an objectively worse design for the reasons I stated.

>>32699945
not at all, we have 1 zoroark in standard and it's pretty old, it happens that it's a pretty good card

garbodor is the TCG shillmon

>>32696872
the general public doesn't have good taste

>>32700050
Edgy

>>32700062
Nope.
Get mad.

>>32700093
Sounds like you're mad enough for the both of us.

I wish Zoroark was my mom

>>32700031
egyptian jackal is actually a african wolf

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1351029/Egyptian-golden-jackal-actually-grey-wolf-scientists-discover-DNA-test.html

>>32699131
Anon. I love me some illusionists. 90% of kids do not. I am not your average 12 year old, which is the important age at which Pokemon is selling its monsters, Don't complain at me for that.

>>32699985
So Lucario is a fictional cartoon creature while Zoroark is a cartoon homage to weebshit. Got it.

>>32700102
Looks like we got a badass!

>>32699961
No hes a jackal

>>32700067
What I mean is Zoroark cards are usually good.

Lucario is blue. Zoroark is not blue.

FACT: The majority of the human race prefers blue as a favorite color

>>32696872
I like both, but Lucario's introduction movie was far better than Zoroark's.
Even though you said you aren't talking about their competitive aspect, that still effect their popularity. Lucario is an above average Pokémon. Zoroark isn't, even in game he kind of falters.
I still have an EV trained Zoroark but no EV trained Lucario because I am a huge hipster and his Mega and being shoved upon you in XY pissed me off
>Underage! You started with XY!
No, I am a genwunner. I just didn't bother EV training stuff until they introduced the Super Training.

>>32699085
>3th
excuse me

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>>32702066
Your right.
Why is Pokémon Blue the Hipster Choice? Why are the leaders (and most shilled members) of Sentai Teams Red? You have shattered my fucking world view.

Lucario was there first.

>>32702096
No really, someone explain this to me.

Lucario and the Mystery of Mew was one of the best Pokemon Movies to promote a Pokemon.

Lucario became a fan favorite after that movie released.

It's similar to how Greninja's popularity increased dramatically after it began starring in XYZ and late XY.

I remember when I first saw Zorua and I thought it's some kids edgy eevee oc.

>>32702972
Blue is probably the hipster choice because whatever your opinions are now, Charizard is more of a game seller than Blastoise.
Red is probably the leader for two main reasons. A, Red is associated with fire and explosions, which are cool, and B, Red with a character is associated with impulsiveness and aggression, which is easier to build a series around, since any stupid decision they make can be explained away. Why are so many protagonists "hot-headed"?

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I think it comes down to how Zorua/Zoroark were introduced, how they played, and how Nintendo supported them.

We were introduced to Lucario via Riley in Diamond & Pearl, who fought alongside the player and always used him, and then gave the player an egg to hatch their own. Lucario was pushed hard onto the player. Then in gen 5, you can catch your own.

Zorua and Zoroark were introduced as big even Pokemon that you could only get by dealing with a bunch of bullshit and getting some event-exclusive Pokemon. BW2 corrected this shit by at least giving you a Zorua.

Then gen 6 came along, and they had the perfect opportunity to try and give Zoroark a leg up - maybe give it a hidden ability, maybe a Mega Stone. Instead, Lucario is literally forced onto the player again, and Zoroark is a regular catchable Pokemon late in the game. And then Zoroark doesn't even appear in gen VII.

Basically a shit first impression that they decided to forego recovering. Which is a shame, because when it comes down to it, I do like Zoroark better than Lucario.

Also fix the goddamn gender ratio. Why have a very prominent female Zoroark promote the character in a movie and then give it the 7:1 ratio?

>>32702096
Blue is a more mellow and calming color.

Red is a more active and exciting color.

Red stands out, blue is more natural.

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>no one posting Lucario Rank
Lucario was pushed like none before it, Zoroark was a feeble attempt in comparison, it doesn't help that Lucario was made Fighting/Steel for no other reason than to have a unique typing so that it stood out more. It was also the only Pokemon in your team in the D/P demos prior to the game's release.
GF pulled every trick in the book to make Lucario popular, what I don't understand is that it worked, do people genuinely begin to like things just because others tell them to like it?

>>32701530
You mean like you were trying to be with "Get mad," only to be completely BTFO?

The absolute state of Lucariofags.

>>32703691
Give to zoroak other ability or HA (Fur Coat, Berserk, Trace, Protean)
Add other type maybe fairy with Play Rough
Change its gender ratio similar to ninetales

better or worse?

>>32703766
>do people genuinely begin to like things just because others tell them to like it?
Look at the spinner thingies. Mass marketing is one hell of a drug. Normalfags are incredibly easy to influence.

>>32703691
people were anticipating it b/c the movie came out a while before too

soroarks movie wasnt bad but it didnt hype powerlevel fags since most of its 3v1 was off screen and its ability doesnt work like disguise in a game where reads and neutral hits are important and all of its weaknesses are common

>>32699837
Casuals love edgelords. Zoroark being presented as such in the trailers made people gravitate towards it. It wasn't until the film came out people realized it really wasn't.

>>32704372
>tfw disliked the trailers and liked it more when I saw the full movie

>>32704445
I think vengeful mom Zoroark was way better than just some generic story about some out of control pokemon like the trailers made it out to be