Council Rejects Stall Suspect/Nerf

>>32662597
>says the council exists to make decisions that can't be entrusted to the masses
>immediately undermines that point by reminding everyone that in practice the masses actually do make most of the decisions, ie. by voting not to ban Dugtrio

Standard Smogtard.

Not that I disagree with the general sentiment though. Sableye isn't broken at all of its own accord. The problem with stall is that there's nothing about it that is individually broken so it makes it very hard to moderate the playstyle without complex bans. The Djgtrio suspect was actually a very smart choice by the Council as Dugtrio is one of the few Stall mons that an argument can even be made for (due to its "uncompetitive" ability the likes of which has a precedent for being banned) but you were all too stupid to see it and just spammed LOL THEY'RE BANNING DUGTRIO WHAT A JOKE like retards.

Both sides here are fucking stupid.

>>32662597
>you had your chance to nerf stall by banning Dugtrio and you said no, now you have to wait
I see nothing wrong with this

>>32662866
this

>>32662866
>>32662875
ive been playing doubles recently, why was dugtrio suspected in the first place?

>>32662892
Essentially every viable pokemon that breaks stall like Heatran and Tapu Lele can get trapped and OHKOd by Sash/Groundium Z Dugtrio.

>>32662892
Arena Trap combined with its +20 Attack.
Makes it very easy for it to trap and kill dedicated counters to some of your walls on the other team.

>>32662892
It was deemed broken due to being able to kill pretty much every viable stallbreaker back then (when Pheromosa and & M-Metagross were a thing). If it wasn't for that dude and his gigantic "duggy's not broken outside stall" post, it would've been banned.

>all these kiddies wanting to ban dug over m-sableye
Low ladder go away

>>32663641
Seeing as double defog stall exists, I don't think a M-Sab ban would be effective.

>>32663605
>duggy's not broken outside stall post
Link? Genuinely curious

>>32663762
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-suspect-process-round-2-dirt.3595351/page-11#post-7245924

Not copy-pasting it because it's so huge it's ridiculous.

>>32664014
this is a good post. why is /vg/ so bad

>>32662597
The answer the whole time is banning Chansey, and by extension, Blissey. You can't name a stall setup without the fat pink blob that can't be overwhelmed by various mons, e.g. M-Char-Y, Gengar, Volcarona, etc.

>>32662910
Sash is for losers, screech z eq is where the game gets on.

Fuck everything!

>>32663661
banning M-Sab makes it easier to counter double defog though, as you can reliably run Taunt to stop stall because you don't have to fear M-Sab bouncing it away.

>>32662597
No duh, Smogon council loves their stall, thats why Baton Pass got unanimously banned because BP even in its nerfed state completely shit on stall.

>>32664544
why do you insist on talking out your ass? double defog doesn't run m-sab, it's zap + skarm

>>32664558
It actually shat on a lot of stuff not just stall, HO couldn't do shit once Manaphy or Espeon got their game going, Necrozma was pretty much made to shit on HO.

>>32664560
Try reading. If M-Sab is gone, then you can reliably run Taut to stop double defog. Taunt doesn't stop M-Sab stall, but does stop double defog. You would no longer have to risk Taunt being dead against stall and can more reliably run it for the stall matchup if M-Sab goes.

>>32662597
Just give us a lvl 55 or 75 meta where general bulk is nerfed.

>>32663641
dug is stall's only answer to some insanely huge threats, like mega mawile. It's the total glue of the team and while not mandatory like sab is right now the thing putting it over the edge

>>32664609
cut the bs, you know you didn't mean that, because if you did you'd reveal how far more ignorant you are since mons already do run taunt in the meta

the same mons that would want to run taunt ARE running taunt

>>32662866
This is bullshit. Banning Duggy would hardly nerf stall. People were having ample success with Diglett and Trapinch stall.

>>32663661
double defog doesn't stop hazards as effortlessly ass msab does. They still have to switch in and hit defog giving you a free turn, or hell you could just keep setting rocks in front of them, it has more pp than defog. All msab has to do is exist. Bam, no rocks.

>>32665436
And without Dugtrio Sableye becomes fodder for the likes of Heatran, Tapu Lele and Mega Mawile, and a whole lot of other stallbreakers. It it a two way street, neither is particularly broken alone, but they are when enabled by the other. Since Sableye has actually some competitive merits like countering Mega Medicham and being a mean of hazard control in a meta when your options are spare, while Dugtrio is arguably still uncompetitive in other contests(for example, paired with Volcarona, it can remove most counterplay without effort), I'd rather ban Dugtrio(or Arena Trap).