A Good Solution to HMs

>>32653329
If some moves have field effects like Dig, Teleport, or Sweet Scent (no longer exists in SM) and can be overwritten, then why not do the same with HMs? The only problem with them is that you must go to a move deleter, but if they can be overwritten like Dig or Teleport then they can be handled better.

>>32653486
You would never need to overwrite them, they'd always be there, but don't take up a move slot.

It's probably best it you can still teach Fly and Surf etc, but the Pokémon still know how to fly and swim regardless.

I don't really like the idea of having to teach a bad move like cut and then immediately overwrite it with a TM once you've used it.

>>32653563
Seems like it would hinder team building regardless. Take Hoenn which has three Water-based HMs. If every pokémon only has one HM slot you might have to fill literally half your team with Water mons.

>>32653580
You are really dumb aren't you? A Kingdra would be able to use Surf, Waterfall and Dive without needing to use even a single Combat Slot.
A Pokémon would automatically have access to every HM it normally could learn.

>>32653329
Oh, also, do you think this is an Original Idea OP, people have been saying this for years.

>>32653580
I thought about that and some games have more than 6 HMs. So I think they'd essentially have all the field moves they could learn usable in the overworld with the right badges.

This should hinder team building less than HMs.

(This is OP)

>>32653598
I've not heard it from anyone else. It's about finding something that solves the gripes of HMs and Pokéride. That might satisfy this unsatisfiable community.

Also, I might make a fan game one day.

>>32653607
>https://yuki.la/vp/21824477
Nov, 2014.

>>32653329
>There is also no bonding with these Pokémon and it raises the question of where they come from and why you can't fight with them.

What are you talking about, they explained where they come from. It's a rental service using a pager that acts like a mini-PC, transferring the rentals when you need to ride them, then transferring them back to wherever it is they're kept. You can't fight with them because that's not what they're there for and they're not yours.

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or
>keep the old fashioned HM moves system
>also have HM items available, but have them be much much harder to obtain

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>GF removes the HM system
>every single sane person sees this as an improvement
>/vp/ hates it because their nostalgiafaggotry tells them that anything different from their shitty childhood games (RSE, DPPt) is automatically bad

like clockwork

HMs were already removed.

>>32654048
I don't know why they even thought on HMs. Albeit unused, TMs 51~55 exist in Red and Green.

>>32653329
Or simply remove them altogether and the whole "explore the world with the help of a pokemon" bullshit.

>>32654072
See >>32654060

>>32654072
Why even play? What's the point of adventure?

The game knows what moves are super effective. Why doesn't it use them for me?

The biggest issue I have with the SM system is that they're random pokemon that you don't even see. I would've been fine with it if they required you to capture a specific kind of pokemon that you can then call up every time.
But then you wouldn't be able to take that pokemon with you. Honestly, I didn't see a problem with HMs, the moves weren't that shit.

>>32654092
waterfall and surf were the only good HM moves

and they made up 1/4th of DPPt's HMs

>>32654131
Waterfall was originally a signature move and not an HM, though.

>>32654131
Yeah, they weren't good really. But they weren't shit. They were still good enough to not severely cripple your pokemon in the main game.

>>32654131
I wouldn't call strength bad either but yeah shit like cut and whirlpool are just... well, shit

HM's are replaced by field skills, unlocked with an item and/or badge, that your pokemon can use if compatible with the corrisponding HM but don't take up battle move slots.

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>>32653329
switch hms with key items (like 'inflatble boat' instead of surf). it worked in tpdp, it would work in pokemon.

>>32654136
That can't be right, I thought it was an HM in gold and silver.

>>32654176
It has been an HM from GS to ORAS but it is the signature move of Goldeen and Seaking in RGBY.

>>32654092
>the moves weren't that shit
Cut, rock smash and flash (and whirlpool sometimes) are absolute garbage, specially in older games. Strength has good base power but why would you need a base 80 normal type move when most things don't get STAB and the ones that do preffer body slam.

The only passable HMs are surf, fly/dive (in-game you don't have to worry about 2-turn moves), and waterfall.

The problem about HMs has always been the fact you cannot make your mons forget them naturally, which is bullshit, and that for the longest time TMs were one-use-only. Otherwise you would be able to teach your vileplume cut in front of a tree, cut it, then re-teach giga drain from your TM case and not have to worry about carrying a weak, nonSTAB physical move on a special grass type. But that concept was too hard for them to grasp and implement.

Pokeride has literally no problems in comparison. All the complains about it are retarded.
>B-but where do the ride mons come from?
They're employees for a rental company that comes to the customer on-demand, you need absolutely no other detail about their fucking origin story

>But w-why can't I battle with them or catch them?
You called a rental employee to provide a service, not become your friend and battle by your side. Catching other people's pokemon is illegal.

>I don't know, it feels like they take a function away from my actual team, y'know?
That's literally the point

If anything, the pokeride system can only be improved upon by creating ride mons that do various functions at one (ride lanturn surfs AND dives), do the last remaining HM (ride scyther cuts trees in your way), etc.

>>32654205
>Cut, rock smash and flash (and whirlpool sometimes) are absolute garbage, specially in older games. Strength has good base power but why would you need a base 80 normal type move when most things don't get STAB and the ones that do preffer body slam.
>
>The only passable HMs are surf, fly/dive (in-game you don't have to worry about 2-turn moves), and waterfall.
I disagree for the main game at least. Having one or two on a pokemon will absolutely not destroy your chances of winning a battle.

>The problem about HMs has always been the fact you cannot make your mons forget them naturally
I forgot about that, yeah I hated that shit.

>>Pokeride has literally no problems in comparison. All the complains about it are retarded.
There are no functional problems, but I wouldn't say that the problems are retarded. They change what the feel of the story is. Instead of an adventure on your own and your pokemon it's more of a trainride with people constantly helping you. Your pokemon aren't getting better in helping you getting around.

>>32654205
>10yo kid teachs taurus surf
>kid deposits hm in the pc
>go to cold island
>taurus levels up learns stomp forget surfs
now you could argue trainers shouldn't have the option to deposit/discard key items

and you would be right.

>>32654231
I already thought you couldn't store or sell key items or TMs/HMs to begin with, so yeah.

>>32654286
You can't obtain and/or exchange Key Items for money. The only time a Key Item is legitimately purchased is when you need to buy a Rage Candy Bar for 300 yen in HGSS Mahogany Town. Other than that, they are never sold or bought.

>>32654286
what about trading pokemons with hm moves?

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>>32653329
>The solution: all Pokémon already know their applicable field moves but they don't take up a move slot
No, that would still mean that you're in need to have at least 1 pokemon of each HM type needed.
Pokeride is almost totally fine as it is, the only thing it needs is for you to be able to disable the pokeride music from the menu and that there's alternative pokemon for each pokeride slot.
For example: the basic flying pokemon is charizard, if you complete the story they give you the option to use Charizard or Pelipper as your flying pokemon, and if you finish the Alola pokedex you unlock the option to fly using Tropicus, it's all only cosmetic and it would give people incentive to complete the game and play longer.

>>32654342
That's a shit solution for what most people's problem is. It's not just the skin of the animation, it's what's performing the animation.

>>32654519
>It's not just the skin of the animation, it's what's performing the animation.
what?, a pokemon that you don't ''own''?
To me what breaks more the inmersion is to see my tropicus using fly and transforming into a black blob with the shape of a bird when i know that that's not my giant flying dinosaur or using strenght to move some boulders and the only thing that's happening is my character just walking into the boulder and the boulder is just getting out of the way, at least now we have actually proper animations

Nah just make the Ride Pager call your own Pokemon from the PC and not have a gay ass suit, otherwise people will bitch and moan they need to use Pokemon they don't want

What about

>Keep HMs
>Need to have the right badge and teach it to at least one Pokemon before they can be used
>Ever since then all you need is a compatible Pokemon in your party to use the HM move, without needing to teach it.
> Can be used from a Pokemon with the move learned or a Special Menu just for overworld moves.

>have pokeride available for the main HMs
>every pokemon can perform learneable field moves even if they don't have it as a move at the time
there, you want to surf/strenght/fly/etc you use your own mon or call a rental if you don't have one on you, but for stuff like dig, sweet scent, stuff like that you need the right pokemon in your party
that should be pretty reasonable

>>32655189
>what?, a pokemon that you don't ''own''?
No, not that specific.

>To me what breaks more the inmersion is to see...
I wasn't talking about breaking immersion.

>>32653486
The no overwrite hmmm rule is to keep you from stranding yourself somewhere.
Imagine you're in seafoam islands and forget surf. What do? You can't leave.

Just have it be so that if you get the gym badge for an HM, and the corresponding pokemon in your party, you can use the HM.
So if you have a flying pokemon in your party and the HM Fly in your bag, you can fly around. Teaching the HM to a pokemon is optional. This way roadblocks can still be used in the game without forcing players to lug around one or two HM slaves.

>>32655635
That's not an issue because TMs are infinite use now. You can just teach it surf again.

>>32653486
So that you don't get soft locked.

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>>32654048
Just look at OP's pic and tell me you like it

>>32655889
The fuck is a covfefe?

>>32653329
The issue with that is you still need a "balanced" team to traverse the overworld (one water Pokemon for Surf/Waterfall/Dive/Whirlpool, one flying Pokemon for Fly, etc.). It would be fine for normal playthroughs but it would become a pain if you want to do a mono-type run or some other self-imposed challenge. Admittedly HMs as they were originally implemented also have this problem, but that's one of the reasons why the mechanic needs to be changed.

Pokeride is a more optimal solution because it avoids the need to build your team in a specific way and gives you more freedom, although it wasn't perfectly implemented in Sun/Moon. The thing I didn't like about it is that most of them were absolutely useless 90% of the time. Lapras was rendered completely obselete by Sharpedo, Stoutland was completely worthless, Mudsdale was only necessary in a select few places and it was very slow compare to Tauros so it was a chore to ride every time you needed to do so. Machamp was fine although there were barely any places that you needed to use it. Tauros was useful but the fact that it replaced the bicycle and you needed to hold a button to go at max speed was an awful idea. Charizard was useful but they removed the ability to fly to individual routes like you could in OR/AS for some reason. Also it plays that really shitty music everytime you want to ride Tauros. The cycling theme overriding the standard route theme was always a small issue but the Pokeride music was probably the worst "cycling" theme in the series.

I would like them to keep the Pokeride system, but design a region that actually requires you use them more. It's a real shame that the Pokemon regions are becoming more and more railroaded each generation and they're removing places that you can explore. They've really taken a huge step back in this regard compared to Hoenn and Sinnoh. And unfortunately people who would much rather play a visual novel than a real game welcome this change.

>>32656059
>The issue with that is you still need a "balanced" team to traverse the overworld (one water Pokemon for Surf/Waterfall/Dive/Whirlpool, one flying Pokemon for Fly, etc.).

I don't mind that. it makes the adventure more realistic.

>>32656059
>but it would become a pain if you want to do a mono-type run or some other self-imposed challenge.
Isn't that the definition of "challenge"?

>>32653594
Idea: combine this with SuMo, original style, and following Pokemon.

Surf, fly, etc exist as tms. They don't let you swim or fly, just like SuMo.
Instead, you can receive instructions on how to teach your pokemon to perform these feats. These are acquired in much the same way as original style hm quests and gifts. You help the safari guy find his teeth, in his gratitude he says say, "I know this neat trick, lemme teach it to you as a way of saying thanks." Wally's dad gives you instruction on breaking rocks since you helped his son, etc.

You have a following pokemon.
If you've recieved the respective instructions, then Pokemon in your party automatically know how to cut bushes, move boulders, carry you over water, etc, if they were able to do these prior. When commanded, they swap out for your following pokemon to perform the task.

>>32655997
It's a wacky Trump misspelling of coffee

>>32656306
You can still perform a mono-type challenge in the older games, it would just mean that you need to carry around a HM slave during certain parts. It's more of a hassle than a challenge since you rarely need all six of your Pokemon to be strong unless you are battling a gym leader or elite four, so you just end up wasting time at your PC every time you have to withdraw/deposit a Pokemon.

>>32653329
>I want my pokemon to be ride animals
>finish a sidequest to make that happen
how's that?

>>32655724
And move relearner for level up moves. Yeah, I know.

>>32655773
You can just die and respawn in the nearest pokecenter.

>>32656651
You don't die in Pokémon.

>>32656656
Sorry, black out and magically reappear

>>32657346
Since FRLG (except Emerald), the game does tell you that you scurry back home or to the Pokémon Center after blacking/whiting out so it's not exactly magic.

>>32657429
If none of your pokemon have surf and you go from an island to the mainland it is.

>>32655724
HMs were always infinite use, though.