Stall is the best play style. Prove me wrong

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>>32648332
Literally no one can.

>>32648332
t. Falseflagging HOfag

Okay, I'll prove you wrong.

>>32648332
stall wouldnt be so broken without M-sableye

>>32649200
this, it deals with anything stall hates and chip damage doesnt bother it the least

>>32648332
man that stall is dugtrio weak

toxapex at least survives a groundium-z EQ but tentacruel? get that out and t-spikes ruins this man. what kind of stall runs a rapid spinner? this stall is just so bad. or was this an old stall from gen 6?

anyways, good stall from a good player is pretty much impossible to beat, personally i wouldnt use stall but there's a good reason many seasoned players go for it in high level games if they really want to win

>>32649231
stall hates wallbreakers
top stall breakers are things like m-hera and lele which sableye does not deal with well

chip damage DOES bother it, what are you talking about? its that chip that allows you to keep it low

>>32648332

Stall would be a million times more manageable without Mega Sableye

Mega Sableye just provides way too much utility fr one slot; it blocks status, can inflict status, remove items with Knock Off, AND keeps hazards off the field

Why is winning so important to stallfags that they'd rather turn the game into an aggravating chore?

Why does Gamefreak keep adding mechanics to encourage it?

>>32648332
it is not fun.
and that is the single most justified reason to hate it.

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>>32649365
>Why does Gamefreak keep adding mechanics to encourage it?
Game Freak has actually introduced a bunch of things that completely shit on stall. The playstyle is only viable in Smogon's imaginary metagame where they do literally everything they can to keep style viable even though the playstyle wouldn't even exist in the first place if it wasn't for their clauses and bans. Stall has LITERALLY zero room to exist under official rules where things like M-Kangaskhan, M-Lucario, M-Salamence, M-Gengar and Baton Pass are all allowed and item clause prevents you from slapping Leftovers on everything. In other words, stall doesn't even exist in any official format. It's just Smogon keeping it on life support for whatever reason.

>>32648332
It's only fun when you're playing stall and the other person isn't. Stall wars is the most boring fucking thing imaginable especially if the other person takes forever to make a move.

>>32648332
First, you need to realize there is a single true format, which is 6v6 Anything Goes. All other formats except maybe VGC is autistic bullshit.

Stall is bad because it doesn't work well with the single best pokemon in the game- Mega Rayquaza.

Mega Rayquaza singlehandedly beats 99% of all stall teams. What the hell does a stall player do when Mega-Fug starts spamming Dragon-Dance boosted Dragon Ascents and Outrages while holding a Lum Berry? Sure, you could try Skarmory or something but they can carry moves for that too. What if it's mixed Rayquaza?

For that matter, what use for Mega Rayquaza does stall have? Is it really a stall team if it intends to win by attacking with Rayquaza? Would that just be a really, really defensive Balance team?

The fact of the matter is, stall only works at all in formats where highly effective wallbreakers (most box legends and a good portion of smogon's BL lists for their lower tiers) are banned. IF you weren't supposed to have/use these powerful wallbreakers like Mega Fug and Palkia and Yveltal, then why would GF eve make them catchable in the first place? Stall is an aberration, an unnatural playstyle not intended by the makers of the game.

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>>32648332
>Hey guys! How about we make an already slow playstyle EVEN SLOWER!

Stall can go to hell.

>>32649533

Your argument falls flat because Game Freak themselves ban Pokemon like Rayquaza from official formats

>>32649439
theres stall in AG.

> cancer style

>>32649439
This meme is pretty stupid considering there stall in Ubers and Item clause would not affect stall teams at all.

>>32649510
True, this is why I never play stall

>>32649439
>Kangaskhan, Lucario, Salamence, Gengar, Baton Pass
They don't so much shit on stall as they shit on everything outside a very small pool of mons that can deal with them. It's been proven on numerous occasions that allowing one of those turns the entire meta into whoever abuses the broken thing best.
>item clause
The most successful Gen 6 stall team was M-Sableye / Shed Shell or Rocky Helmet Skarm / Eviolite Chansey / Black Sludge Amoonguss / Leftovers Quagsire / Scarf Gothitelle -> Band Weavile.

Stall was never a problem during Gens 4 and 5, the only reason it existed in the first place was to take advantage of the incredibly offensive meta where most players would rather be as anti-offensive as possible and packed very few anti-stall measures. M-Sableye is the only thing that makes it broken.

>>32648332
Fat Balance/Bulky Offense is actually the best. It deals with both offense and stall.

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>>32648332
Stall is awesome! Seeing players get mad because their best attacks are meaningless is fun and comfy. Seeing players take games too seriously or personally get mad is the best feeling in the world.

Go ahead and call me cancer or tell me to kill myself or whatever. Your anger is my fun. The fact that you're mad and your day is ruined means that I've won.

>>32649668
You know Celesteela is not used on stall right?

>>32649668
t. reddit king
have fun constantly battling other stall players lmao

Good, now I challenge you to a double battle.

>>32648332
Real talk how big of a man-child do you have to be to play full stall?

>>32649553
What part of "6v6 anything goes is the single true format" didn't you understand?

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>>32649606
>item clause would not affect stall teams at all
Yes it would
Off to >>>Reddit for you faggot sjw numale cuck

>>32649668
Back to your >>>/cuckshed/ you faggot sjw numale liberal

>>32651877
>>32651921
>

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>>32651921
this is the easiest game of "spot the /pol/tard" i've ever played

>>32649200
Nah, the real problem is Dugtrio. Double hazard removal stall functions fine without Sableye.

>>32648332
>Tentacruel
What emem did I miss

>>32649439
>Stall has LITERALLY zero room to exist under official rules where things like M-Kangaskhan, M-Lucario, M-Salamence, M-Gengar and Baton Pass are all allowed
I play ubers and while stall isn't the best overall playstyle, it's still relatively good. Even teams that carry dedicated stallbreakers like Mega Gengar still have a lot of trouble with good stall teams

>>32648332
Agreed. In fact, it's so good they're already thinking on a way to nerf it for good:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stall-in-sm-ou.3593151/page-2#post-7378176

>Honestly before anything can be done here, I think we should establish what the key problem of these teams are, and the collateral damage of what can happen whether Sablenite, Dugtrio or even some other component of these teams are looked at.

>I've been a proponent of a Sablenite suspect since oras because I think it's the key issue with stall. I don't necessarily think stall is too broken at this stage in the meta, but it is very difficult to prepare for between Sab stall + double defog stall, all of which have different forms of counterplay to each others threats, and I do feel a nerf to stall is something that should be considered in the near future. The tier is pretty balanced atm especially with mgross+bp bans, there's nothing massively overbearing outside of stall which I guess has made it a little easier to prepare for but it should still be looked at.

>Anyway, the restrictions Mega Sableye(when paired with Arena Trap or vice versa) place on building and even playing are what I feel push it over the edge. I don't think a single thing on stall is broken, but when there's a combination, it definitely feels like something should be done, but what?

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>>32655912

>Banning Sablenite: My main issue with Sablenite is that it suffocates counterplay through status, you can't rely on taunt users nor can you reliably get rocks up, this is a pretty big deal when double defog stall is similarly common and rides off the fact that stallbreakers like Mew or Gliscor and Stealth Rock users like Terrak, Tran have fallen out of favour over the last little while. Banning Sablenite reduces the number of big stall builds and effectiveness of them, but not to the point where they are unviable, they still have the option of trapping threats with Dugtrio and they can still outplay threats.. It's a heavy nerf for sure, but it means there isn't such a radical difference between the main stall teams and usually provides the option of good consistent options that can constantly put in work vs stall (aforementioned Mew, Gliscor, makes getting hazards and applying pressure against defog users easier)


>Banning Arena Trap: Banning Arena Trap will completely crush stalls viability in the tier and make it near impossible to function as a legitimate playstyle, going with an Arena Trap ban is an extremely huge buff to stallbreakers and pretty much anything else that isn't immune bar fat grasses. this also removes strategy some offensively based teams rely on such as using Dugtrio to remove threats like Toxapex, Heatran, Tyranitar + others. Along with destroying stalls viability, it removes legitimate options non-stall teams have available and removes some counterplay for big threats. However it ensures stall will not be problematic again. But, the result of the Duggy suspect test doesn't make this a particularly viable option until at least another few months down the line.


>Other?: There aren't really other options. Banning Chansey is a dumb meme. Toxapex? Defog? Magic Bounce itself??

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>>32655920
>There's very little to go off of though, there's nothing to show which idea may be the better idea, there is no current meta without either threats for players to make a judgment for themselves. Suspect ladders aren't a good indication of a meta because people just spam sample teams with little to no regard of meta development nor do they seem to give a shit about what happens at the end of the process. Perhaps the bp ban will vastly reduce this, but that's an entirely different issue.

>I think an extended suspect process for all of the involved components of stall should be looked at in one, with separate ladders to allow people to have a grasp of the meta and actually see what it looks like on both sides (one with no Sablenite, one with no Arena Trap). Providing the insight we need here will probably shed some light on what we should really do in the future about this. But just to clarify, my thought process on this is a problem exists with Mega Sableye + Dugtrio, but no problem exists with Dugtrio + anything else, but on the other hand, no problems really exist with Mega Sableye + anything else either. It's a pretty odd scenario, but targeting one side in a suspect clearly didn't work, so trying the other side may give the answer.

Thoughts?

>>32655932
remove goblin

>>32649439
The only place where you can't stall are on battlespot, doubles, VGC, which are set up like that to prevent games lasting 600+ turns and boring normal people.

>>32649668
Adult Swim called. They want you as a writer for Rick and Morty.

>>32655912
>>32655920
>>32655932
tl;dr version?

>>32656192
TL;DR: Dude knows stall is a pain in the ass to beat in the meta, and agrees that it should be nerfed in some way. The effectiveness of the double defog stall requires a somewhat different strategy to beat compared to mega goblin's stall, and that proves that the problem may not be entirely due to Sableye.

The question then becomes: what should they do to nerf stall? Banning Sableyenite will leave the double defog and double unaware stall untouched, and banning Dugtrio/Arena Trap will end up nerfing every team that makes use of it (aka not only stall).

In the end, he proposes multiple suspect ladders to test which one's the true culprit, while also asking feedback for another possible solution of sorts.

>>32656399
I say just make lvl 50 OU and 4v4 singles OU as separate formates

>>32648857
This

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>>32649439
>item clause prevents you from slapping Leftovers on everything.
>implications