>other cover legendaries >creatures deeply tied to a region's

>>32646718
They also just dont seem important at all. Just some random legendaries, with only interesting thing being that they're aliens. So are the other UBs. Who cares

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>>32646718
dude story ayy lmao

It's all shit, Ho-Oh and Lugia are the only good handling of box legends, and only in GSC.

>>32646718
> skipped the part where you had to go to the library to find out more about the beasts because their lore is so ancient

>>32646786
Hardly interesting

>>32646738
>Ho-Oh and Lugia
>good
Pick one.

>>32646786
And none of what we learn is something we actually see in the games. The original Solgaleo and Lunala from the storybooks are gone for no fucking reason and never show up, so there were literally zero reasons for the book to be there in the first place. The Solgaleo/Lunala we got was just some babby pet that JUST evolved, not the "real" legends at all.

>>32646718
>Rockruff turns into Lycanroc-MD due to Solgaleo's influence, Lunala does the same for Lycanroc-MN
>they can evolve despite the box duo having yet to come into existence later on
I know, story and gameplay segregation and all that, but it's still off.

>>32646718
Did you really just try to defend gen 5's legends as being anything but utter dogshit yugioh dragons following on the trend of the already-shit gen 4 legends? And you do this while trying to throw shade on gen 7's which have a clear purpose and place in the story and don't have the exact same fucking ability and Dragon type?

>>32646738
>both do nothing
>one of them has literally no lore and is just a copypaste of Mewtwo with wings
>the other is just non-shit Moltres and hogs all the lore

It's so funny when a Johtodddler has an opinion about his bottom tier games. At least you realize HGSS is even worse than GSC.

>>32646718
>implying Xerneas and Yveltal are in any way better

Nebby is at least a big part of the plot, and there's old, detailed legends about the old Solgaleo and Lunala that ties all the old ruins, the Tapus, and the UBs together. Xerneas and Yveltal just show up out of nowhere, have no connection to Team Flare besides being used as fucking batteries, and have no lore behind them besides "oh, they're the gods of life and death that fucked off into the woods a thousand years ago", told to you by some random old guy for no real reason. By the far the worst box legends story- and lore-wise.

>>32646718
>Lugia
>Deeply tied to Johto
lol

>>32646881
so tied to johto he manages to kanto bird trio

>>32646718
>creatures deeply tied to a region's culture and its other legendary pokémon
You were talking about the Johto duo, but this perfectly sums up Alola's duo.

>>32646718
>Zygarde found in Kalos only in 50% form >Zygarde cells are randomly found all over Alola

>Xerneas somehow being used as a weapon to kill everyone
>No explaination as to where it/Yveltal actually came from

>Protostar pokemon evolves into the moon pokemon

>The whole ultra beast nonsense

>Necrozma having absolutely no lore

Every legendary after Gen 5 has been badly handled.

>>32647011
>>Protostar pokemon evolves into the moon pokemon

it's the cloud part of nebby anon :^)

>>32647019
No they're just too lazy to come up with anything that makes sense

>>32646794
>>32646830
Regardless of what you think about them being locked inside their dungeon where you have to go out of your way to look for them is way better handling of legendaries than shoehorning them into the plot.

>>32647011
>Necrozma having absolutely no lore
That's not exactly a fair complaint. Rayquaza and Giratina had no lore either until Emerald and Platinum came out, and Kyurem and Zygarde had only vague implied lore until B2W2 and the XY&Z anime.

>>32647011
>Xerneas somehow being used as a weapon to kill everyone
Xerneas was used to grant eternal life dumbass. Did you even read what Lysander was saying?

>>32647011
>Necrozma having absolutely no lore
I actually like that one. Necrozma is just a weird thing that exists. Nobody knows what it is or how it got there.

It's cool and different from the usual "legendary" pokémon thing, where they're either some creature mentioned in folklore or some sort of urban legend with a scientific background, like Mewtwo, Deoxys, Genesect and the other UBs.

>>32647042
So his plan was to cleanse the world by giving everyone eternal life?

>>32646718
That's exactly how I'd like legendary Pokemon to be: much more subtle. I mean, they're called LEGENDARY Pokemon. They're supposed to be something that are only mentioned in old legends and fairy tales. I hate how in most Pokemon games legendaries are so in-your-face and showed down our throats, going all BOOM BOOM CRASH HELLO FUCKERS as they come crashing down from the sky, causing floods and droughts, freezing entire cities, just hanging around the corner waiting to be captured by the evil team and not putting up any sort of fight whatsoever, and you as the player character are of course The Chosen One™ who must use the power of the legendary Pokemon to stop the maniac villain who is trying to destroy or rule the world or create a new one or whatever the fuck. Like, do you guys actually enjoy that stuff?

Call me a genwunner if you want, but Gen I was the absolute best generation in terms of how it handled legendary Pokemon. At no point were they showed down our throats, and aside from Moltres they were all in locations that you could just skip entirely. You actually had to explore and look for them. None of the legendary birds are mentioned by name at any point during the story, but you have some NPCs who describe them briefly when telling you some old tale (such as that one trainer in Blaine's gym). Mewtwo I believe is mentioned by name but the only thing you have is some old creepy research notes that set a very unsettling aura over the Pokemon before you're finally able to search for it during post-game.

tl;dr I'd rather have legendary Pokemon be legends instead of muh super epic monsters that have done this and that and you're forced to catch in order to progress in the game (sure SM also had a forced encounter but otherwise it was a step in the right direction)

>>32646718
It is implied that in old times a Solgaleo and/or a Lunala fought against the Tapus but neither won the battle so Solgaleo and/or Lunala gave the Z-Crystals to the Tapus and then they learned how to use them. It would be great if the Solgaleo/Lunala we found was the Legendary Pokémon instead of Lillie's Cosmog.

>>32646718
Nebby is literally just one cosmog that happened to make its way to lillie. There are more cosmog in ultra space and Nebby is obviously not the solgaleo/lunala written about in Alolan lore. Play the games fuckshit.

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I made a new pokemon! its called eeweed and its special power is to make its enemy pokemen high with weed what do you think

>>32647202
lol weed XD

>>32646833
This.

>>32647175
So is Cosmog a legendary or an ultra beast?

>>32647302
It's a legendary ultra beast.

>>32647435
And yet it's not better than the rest of the Ultra Beasts which aren't legendaries.

Yep makes perfect sense

>>32646718
That's a good thing. Pantheon lore autism was getting fucking annoying.

>>32647522
>And yet it's not better than the rest of the Ultra Beasts which aren't legendaries.
Solgaleo and Lunala are significantly more powerful and can also open multiple wormholes as they please with no effort, not something the other UBs were capable of doing.

Also the other UBs are sub-legends.

gee idk maybe because they wanted to switch things up a bit rather than using the same stagnant tropes for each game?

>>32647636
>Hoopa can open portals and Rayquaza & Arceus can't therefore it's more powerful

>sub-legends
is this a meme?

>>32647663
"Sub-legends" doesn't mean anything, it's a retarded term with no definition that can literally be used to describe a Pidgey if you wanted to.

"Legendary" is just human perception. Solgaleo and Lunala were deified as emissaries of the Sun and Moon for centuries. The other UBs are recent discoveries and pretty much known only to Aether scientists and Interpol.

>>32647663
>is this a meme?
in-game coding divides legendaries into 3 categories.
ZapMolCuno level legends
MewTwo level legends
and Mew level penis rares.

>>32647687
And before anyone says anything about Mewtwo being legendary despite being manmade and obscure, that's just something that has to be accepted as being grandfathered because officially taking away Mewtwo's Legendary status would cause a shitstorm.

>>32647624
This.
Everything doesn't need to have some long extruded meaning and connection to something else absurd.

>>32647691
UBs fall into none of those categories

I keep forgetting Solgaleo and Lunaala are even real Pokemon.

>>32647718
UBs, Tapus, and Null fall into the category of Birds, Beasts, Regis, etc. This is reflected in the SM Pokedex background colors.

>>32647731
Tapus are but the others don't fit

That's like saying Manaphy, Darkrai and Crescelia are roamer tier because they aren't box legends

>>32647624
This

>>32647055
Not everyone, just the people Lysandre deemed worthy

>>32647744
You don't get to make up your own rules. The Pokedex and game code put Type: Null and UBs in the same category as the Tapu.

>>32647663
>>Hoopa can open portals and Rayquaza & Arceus can't therefore it's more powerful
Rayquaza's and Arceus' lore and story don't revolve around emerging from other worlds and bridging several together.

>>32647744
UBs are bird trio level. They aren't banned from ranked.

>>32646802
> legends cant have babies

>>32647752
Does Lysandre not understand that people reproduce?

He can live for 100000 years but that won't get rid of the filth he deems unworthy.

>>32647785
>>32647758
Prove it

>>32647796
Stop being a poorfag, buy SM, play the game, and see that the Pokedex gives the same background color to UBs, Tapu, and Type: Null.

>>32647809
>m-muh background color

I bet you think Charizard and Rhyhorn are related because of their cries

>>32647835
Are you saying there's a technical limitation to how many background colors the Pokedex could have? Though since this is Game Freak, you could be right.

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>>32646718
Does anyone else like the approach they took with the stat spreads, at least in comparison to how the box legends in gens 3-5 were built

>>32647791
>implying he's not going to put birth control on an already reduced population
>implying he's not going to indoctrinate the new generations from the get-go
Also, immortality (at least the one featured in XY) doesn't make you stop aging, so you would become infertile eventually. I also doubt immortality is passed onto offsprings, unless AZ purposely never had children.

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>>32646830
>Mewtwo with wings

>>32647852
If you're talking about the Aura duo, it fits into their lore. Xerneas and Yveltal are supposed to be equally matched in power, it makes sense for their stat spreads to be identical.

The Cosmic duo has the same stat differences as gen 3 and 5 box legends.

>>32648076
Somebody make this

>>32646830

>hurr did you guis no dat Lunala is jst Mewtsu copypaste bu DEAD?

TIL every pyschic legendary is just Mewtwo. Despite being completely different from Mewtwo.

>>32647796
I literally just did you faggot. They're not banned from ranked, barring special limitations, i.e. the manlet tournament. That puts them in the same category as legendary birds, dogs, regis, genies, etc.

>>32648198
strawman

>>32648193
he was talking about lugia

>>32648209
How the fuck is that a strawman? Explain. Are you just in the I AM SILLY phase now?

>>32648213
>because they have the same limitations that makes them the same
>cosmog can evolve therefore it's not a legendary

>>32648137
I mean like how they have more bulk and speed by not having a localized 150 attack stat, and then re-closing the power gap with powerful attacks and abilities

>>32648225
>complains about strawman
>makes a strawman
Where did I say legendaries can't evolve? Now you're making shit up.

The only mechanical difference between groups of legendaries is whether they can be used in ranked/battle facilities. That's a tangible distinction. You keep saying "NUH UH THEY'RE NOT THE SAME" without providing a tangible distinction.

>>32648235
>mechanical difference
>oh look it's another strawman

I'm not talking about mechanical differences.

I'm saying that because two things have something in common doesn't mean they should be categorised in the same group.

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>>32646718
Not hard to defend, really. Because they're literally the only Legendaries I would call a favorite. Nebby was the cutest thing to ever exist, I love him, seeing it grow was rewarding, a lot more so than seeing a random dragon appearing to save the day, and both Solgaleo and Lunala look great. They're the first Legendaries I've kept in my team in 8 years.

What really needs defending is the other box Legends. Yeah, they're Godly entities. But I have exactly zero reasons to give even a single fuck about them. Their lore wasn't even interesting. It was all the same generic shit.

>>32648265
Please look up what a strawman is you stupid fuck.

I didn't say YOU made a mechanics argument, I said that that's the distinction that actually exists and matters and inherently has more merit than your personal autism. You're just regurgitating the same shit, that they should be different without explaining how.

>>32647104
STFU faggot. If they're legendaries, they have to show their power.

>>32647796
kys faggot. It's in the game's code. What more proof do you need, retard?

>>32646820
How do you say Solgaleo/Lunala have a clear purpose/place in the story but Reshiram/Zekrom don't? Really?

Im in love Lunala, but the ugly thruth is that sun/moon feels like an unfinished game with many holes in his history that where left unexplained because fuck you.

I suppose thats the reason why everyone get convinced that an sun/moon 2 game is a fact.

>>32647034
But lugia and ho-oh are shoed into plot of HGSS

>>32647036
This is what I liked about rayquaza in sapphire. They never spelled it out directly until emerald, but I remember having it and kyogre in my party and noticing one had a weather creating ability and one had a weather cancelling ability and realizing there had to be a connection, and I thought that was the coolest shit. I actually loved zygarde 50% in XY for a similar reason.

>>32648648

See: >>32646738

It's like people don't fucking read.

>>32648286
But this distinction is moot and has absolutely no merit.

Nidoking and Nidoqueen are completely unrelated based on game mechanics.

>>32646820
>And you do this while trying to throw shade on gen 7's which have a clear purpose
What purpose?
They're just there for the sake of being there

>>32646718
I meam, they are not the best thing ever, but did you really want gen 3 for the fourth time?
Making them being active during the quest instead of passive plot devices was a good idea. Not something i'd like to see a billion times but good once.

>>32647034
>shoehorning
Only xerneas and yveltal can be argued to be this.

>>32648807
Of course people dont read, why do you think this fanbase has issues with the games having a story?

>>32647011
>ultra beast nonsense
What nonsense? Or you mean "nonsense" as in "I dont get a game for 7 yea old".

And necrozma will probably be expanded upon later.

>>32646815
When was this said?

>>32649152
>muh other dimensions

literally the second laziest story writing ever that you can use to justify any bullshit you want

the worst being

>le time travel cliche
>play through the exact same game you've already played but in a different....TIME
>Temporal Diamond/Pearl/Platinum

>>32649199
>muh other dimensions
>literally the second laziest story writing ever that you can use to justify any bullshit you want
Not really, you just dont like the concept. That is not an argument.

>>32649199
Other dimensions are only lazy if they use them as a cop out. If its a central plot point then that's a whjoke different story.

>>32649233
No I don't like because it's lazy writing.
They could've had strange alien pokemon literally coming from space and that could've worked with the story and linked it in with what they did with Deoxys in the last game but no they just threw in some random dimension crap that was barely relevant to the story until post game.

>>32649299
Now that's lazy writing.

Solgaleo and Lunala were an interesting idea with boring execution. I like the idea of an initially weak Pokemon evolving into some powerful ass monster is cool. But the story didn't make it as interesting as it could've been, especially since the lore was pretty much just 'ayy lmaos'

>>32649178
Not really in the games, but it says so on the Pokemon website.

>>32649350
>yfw GF ripped off Johnny Test
>yfw no face

>>32649337
>Oh look it's a completely random wormhole
>Hi Jellyfish
>Bye Jellyfish
>Cosmog is an alien from another dimension that we have for some reason and abusing it makes wormholes
>Lusamine has alien tentacle fetish
>Shock Nebby is the legendary
>GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Wow, what a creative story

>>32649299
You didnt explain why its lazy, just insisted on it.
What makes aliens less lazy than other dimensions? The fact they've used the concept before? That could be applied to other dimensions too.

>was barely relevant to the story till post game
You mean aside from being the main motive behind the main villain, and you literally visiting it to have the climax battle of the plot? ,sure, barely relevant. And you dont even visit it in post game.

So, the second kind of nonsense.

>>32649134
It's shoehorned when the game forces you to encounter(and sometimes catch) the box legend sometime between the 7th gym and league.

>>32649415
If the encounter is part od the plot the game built up then its not shoehorning. You just wanted to use a word with negative connotations because you hate games where shit actually happens.

>>32649390

The worst part about it is that there's no rhyme or reason for it. The Ultra Wormhole had no reason to appear at all.

>>32649411
Other dimensions don't exist and pokemon isn't sci-fi.

You spend a grand total of 5 minutes in Ultra space. Not to mention the fact that you don't even fight Lusamine-Nihilego and for some reason Nebby only attacks her AFTER you battle her. What exactly was the point of that?

>>32649390
Now replace wormhole with space and have deoxys woosh by and we have your story.
With that said you seem to be confusing a bad execution with a bad element.

>>32649422
It's shoehorned into the plot by the unoriginal evil team on the search for a Pokemon with godlike power and only you, the chosen one, can tame this Pokemon once and for all.

>>32649442
>Other dimensions don't exist
Neither do pokemon.

>and pokemon isn't sci-fi.
Literally the first gen introduced a legendary based on experimenting on another mon. It had scifi elements since the beggining. Not to mention aliens are also a scifi concept.

>You spend a grand total of 5 minutes in Ultra space. Not to mention the fact that you don't even fight Lusamine-Nihilego and for some reason Nebby only attacks her AFTER you battle her. What exactly was the point of that?
Nothing you said proves ultra space irrelevant or lazy. And you dont fight lusamine nihilengo because she's a trainer, not a mon. You fight her as trainer because the pokemon games have you play as a trainer.

>>32649449
That's not whay shoehorning means at all. If the plot is about that its not shoehorning. Thanks for proving my point.

>>32649464
Whatever it is, it's shit and got old after RS did it.

>>32649446
The story is both badly written AND badly executed

I was just giving an example of how easy it is to come up with something similar with absolutely no effort. The more non-sensical the story elements get the harder it is to write a conherent story.

>>32649476
>The story is both badly written AND badly executed
You are so god damn retarded you probably don't realize the problem here.

>>32646815
That's because there was a Solgaleo or Lunala before Nebby.

>>32647104
>I hate how in most Pokemon games legendaries are so in-your-face and showed down our throats So uh, you hate Solgaleo and Lunala?

>>32649485
That the story made no sense so they had to oversimplify everything and have random portals opening for no reason?

No I do understand that.

I agree 100%.

>>32649501
Yes, but what was their influence to begin with? If it's their ability to give off/absorb light, how is this still in effect when SM happens? I don't think they're immortal, so their power probably wore off at some point. It's also possible that there are more than just one, so they could've kept it up at all times. Perhaps I'm just overthinking it all.

>>32649661
>If it's their ability to give off/absorb light, how is this still in effect when SM happens?
It doesn't have to be. Solgaleo/Lunala's influence gave the Lycanroc of their a new form, and then those Lycanroc with the new form bred. The babies were born with the form.

>>32647522
competitive viability does not reflect how powerful a pokemon is in-universe

>>32649959
Yes it does you raging faggot it's literally the only thing that reflects how powerful a pokemon is

>>32650058
False, the statistics of the Pokémon are only game mechanics.
If the statistics really represent the power of the Pokémon Rattata would be only 3 times more weak than the literal god of time, which is absurd

>>32650138
>Implying Cranidos isn't stronger than Entei

>>32650160
Yes

>>32648897
They're still in certain distinct categories of Pokemon. For the hundredth time, if you want to categorize UBs differently from birds, explain fucking how. Learn to argue.

>>32646718
>>32646718
I can defend it to you if you show your tits back in exchange Girl, you owe us ;^)