I know it's a bit early, but fuck it

you'll never live this down

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you gotta'b jinxed

>>32595395
What did he do?

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>you now remember when people unironically thought ash would win the league and watched the anime religiously

>>32595555
You bet your sweet ass I did. Those were good times.

>>32595555
He actually got to the finals, they gave him a special snowflake Ace that seemed unbeatable, his Pikachu defeated pseudos like they were nothing, and with the 20th anniversary, it would've been the perfect time for him to finally win, but nope, BURASTO FUCKING BAAN.

>>32595653
>20th anniversary
Games. Not the anime.

>>32595798
That /v/ tier image is disgusting.
Get rid of the reaction images it's the equivalent of a laugh track it's not needed and looks desperate.

>>32595653
The fact that he didn't win, doesn't mean that it was a great narrative twist that was meant to surprise people, it means that the Pokemon anime can't even follow basic storytelling guidelines and tropes.

>>32595896
They're in there, fix them yourself or fucking shut your mouth you lazy shit

>>32595896

Oh yay, it's another "mature" 4chan pundit hating on reaction images. It's literally just archiving 4chan posts and culture. Do you get mad at people posting reaction images in general? Because when somebody posts something "funny' and someone else posts a reaction image, that's "adding a laugh track"

If you are on 4chan and can't stand reaction images, fuck off

>Be me
>Pokemon director
>Writing the Sinnoh League
>Holy fuck, Ash is so competent, how are we gonna write him losing in a fair way?
>How about we write him losing in a fair way?
>No fuck that, full team of
>L E G E N D A R I E S
>And to rub salt in the wounds, let's make Ash a retard in the next series

>Be me
>Pokemon director
>Signed on to write the Kalos chapter
>Shit we better write Ash's doom early into the story as to not upset the fans again
>Give Alain a side story, give him a mega Charizard to look extra badass
>Now let's also give Ash a mega, it should probably be one of the starters
>Game Freak didn't give the kalos starters mega forms
>I'm working with incompetent retards, we'll just make up our own
>Anyone here watch Naruto?
>Oh hold on a minute, this guy is actually being built up to look unstoppable, how do we make him stoppable?
>Make him lose against Mega Sceptile?
>No, have him WIN against Mega Sceptile but lose to Mega Charizard, it'll be symbolic or a metaphor or some shit.
>And to rub salt in the wounds, let's make Ash a retard in the next series

>>32595896
>d-delete this. No one should learn how much of an autist I am

he'll have more success as a female.

>>32596050
Ash didn't look unstoppable compared to Alain, I don't know why you would think this.

>>32596074
The whole Kalos league fiasco is a result of cognitive dissonance among the fans, and while it was so embarrassing to see everyone's reaction about this.

>>32596074
Alain had one powerful Pokemon, Ash had six. Although Charizard was the one to finish the match in the end, he had to resort to Guillotine spam for it not to get outnumbered and slaughtered by Ash's other Pokemon.

>>32596074
if anything, they looked equal in the competition

>>32596147
I'll give you Pikachu and Greninja, but the others were borderline jobbers, mate. Hell, one of Ash Pokemon was a newly hatch.

>>32596277
You mean the one that defeated Zapdos?

>>32596284
Which was more of an asspull than anything concerning Alain.

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>>32595966
I agree with you, but "culture"?

4chan culture is about as rich as a McDonald's cheeseburger where every shitty thing is written in detail on the wrapper.

>>32596284
Which was a much bigger asspull than Alain's victory. Plus, it proceeded to lose to Alain Metang anyway.

>>32596050
Ash is just as competent in SM while having an actual personality.

>>32596284
The one that lost to Alain's Metang? The same Metang who evolved and lost to Pikachu easily?
That Zapdos was weak as hell.

>>32596074
It doesn't matter. The narrative was written as classic hero's journey. Greninja meets his rival, loses because of his own shortcomings, finally overcomes them and goes even further beyond, and... still loses. It makes the entire thing literally pointless. He could have not trained at all and the result would be the same.

It was a failure of basic writing.

Usually, a MC facing a seemingly unstoppable opponent on an occasion with a lot at stake (like a final), and after having lost against said opponent several times already, would mean that in this particular occasion the MC would finally win.

>>32596448
That plot already happened. It was with Wulfric and Sawyer, not so much Alain.

>>32596470
Ash beating Shota for the hundredth time wasn't the hero's journey. It also didn't matter. There is no silver trophy. Anything that isn't first place is an irrelevant loss.

Ash could have beaten Wulfric with Hawlucha as his third. Greninja was just "testing his power."

>>32596448
not following a narrative trope to a T isn't a failure of basic writing. shota was his traditional rival, which he overcame.

alain was clearly going to be the person he'd lose to, if you couldn't see that buildup coming from a mile away the only person you should be bitter at is yourself. there are four series prior to XY, two of which he could have won the league on a similar narrative yet didn't. this was hardly unprecedented nor unexpected.

>>32596481
They barely hyped up Ash and Alain's rivalry from Ash's pov. And his character arc was not being overly concerned with winning and losing. Its actually in some twisted way admirable they stuck to that with Ash and Greninja not ultimately winning. People shit on cliches, but the moment they veer off from them in some way, they shit on it for not following basic "storytelling structure?" Get over it. Go beat on Mega Charizard X with Greninja if you're still butthurt a japanese cartoon for japanese children didn't follow your headcanon.

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Now look at what he's become.

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Reading threads like these makes me really fucking glad I stopped watching the Ash anime as a child.

>>32596050
Tobias loss was supposed to symbolise those people who had a bunch of legendaries hacked into their game and used overpowered pokemon to win. They even state "wow, Ash was the only one to make him switch out his Darkrai, and even then take out his Latios!" if Tobias wasn't there, Ash would have taken Sinnoh, but the writters wanted to show how op any kid with a team of random legendaries can be so whatever.

I have no idea what they were hoping for with the XYZ ending. Mega Charizard X pandering? Literally the stars fucking aligned for Ash to win.

>ash gets continuously depressed throughout his Kalos journey taking every loss to heart
>even has an arc where he has to get his shit slapped by everyone
>literally fulfilled some ancient prophecy to get some new form of Greninja
>starts to conquer some of his demons such as against Shota, almost beats Diantha's M-Gardevoir
>total loses to Alain was 2 at this point so he was practically guaranteed to win and overcome his loses
>lose to edgelord who won by spamming BURASTO BAHN and DORAGON KURAW
tl;dr i'm still mad as fuck. went on a 6 month hiatus from the series

It doesn't help that the Kalos league as a whole was pretty bad outside of those 2 battles.

>>32596050
>Game Freak didn't give the kalos starters mega forms
Stop. Just stop.

>>32596984
>Wanting Ash to win with Memefrog

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>>32596984
What the fuck was this shuriken, anyway?

His most spectacular defeat. He flew too close to the sun. Now he will be punished in Alola for the next 4 years.

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>>32597063
>wanting mega charizard x to win
I personally wanted Shota to win the whole thing.

>>32597083
Bullshit is what we call this.

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>>32596870
>there's a face on his uvula

>>32596984
I think you are reading into it wrong, but yeah Tobias seemed to exist to show there are always people who are just on another level.

But I don't know what Alain was supposed to be. Ash and him were constantly shown to be equals, or near it.

There's no shame in losing to Tobias who was an uphill battle from the beginning. Doing that well against that many legendary Pokemon is an accomplishment of its own.

Alain though... they were on an even playing field. You could debate that Greninja actually had the edge with his completely unique form. But he loses anyways. What does that tell the audience? Don't get your hopes up?

I may not be happy that he lost the Kalos league, but I'm still proud of Ash.

>>32595533
He traveled back in time and won every League and amassed a harem of Legendary Pokémon and became an Aura Guardian

>>32597117
its kinda fucked but some kids i tutor got really depressed after seeing that shit for that exact reason
>life is hard but this just makes the reality that trying is pointless too clear

>>32596558
Shota wasn't a traditional rival, Ash beat him nearly every time they battled and only lost ONCE.

>>32597117
Funny thing is, Alain even admitted Ash was the better trainer well after the league was over.

The writers, for whatever reason just don't want Ash to win a league.

>>32597810
It was corporate's decision. The writers would have had Ash win if they could have chosen freely.

>>32597859
I still don't understand the logic. Winning the league doesn't make you a Pokemon Master. Hell, the league winner doesn't even seem to get much attention after the league was over.

Alain was bumming around the city after Flare and they treated him like a normal citizen.

>>32597879
Each league winner probably immediately loses to the Elite 4 after anyway. For some reason the Elite 4 are portrayed as unbeatable in the anime.

>>32597943
I'd agree but Alain kinda fucked up the fire E4 member with his extremely tired Charizard that went through 10 megas before her.

>>32597859
>Implying

>>32597879
>Winning the league doesn't make you a Pokemon Master
Then why ain't there a character who is currently is the master or reaching that goal like Ash?

>>32597717
Supposedly, the ashnime tries to convey the message of "winning isn't everything, you might lose but all is well as long as you try and do your best", but after 20 years and six leagues, it comes off more as "you will never win shit no matter how much you try, keep aiming and never reaching your goals".

NANI MO NANI MO

>>32597859
I think the same thing. I remember seeing few tweets shortly after XYZ 38 from some guys of the anime staff, expressing their disappointment from the outcome.
Too bad TPC is a bitch.

>>32595712
Games which are pretty much what gave birth to Pokémon as a whole, you fucking mongoloid.

>>32595555
Now all those salty fans can do is complain about the current anime instead of moving on to an anime that doesn't mislead the viewer

>>32597083
"muh hype"

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>reminder that Alain's MCX knocked out 10 M-evos in a row, including Malva's ace, at the time Greninja was a still a Frogadier

Ash didn't stand a chance

>>32599314
This. Charizard alone should have swept Ash's whole team if we people want to be realistic.

>>32599928
Ash has been training longer than Alain, he should be stronger. Alain didn't get his Charizard at any younger an age and hasn't been through 6 regions like Ash has. If we want to talk about realistic, Ash's Pikachu should kill his Charizard.

>watching the anime
>expecting Ash to win
>ever

When will you people learn? Can't wait to see what kind of asspull they do on the Alola league

>>32599945
No, we've been following Ash longer. There's no indication Ash has had his pokemon longer than Alain has had Charizard. And going by real time logic is fucking retarded because then Ash should be older and more experienced than most champions by now.

>>32595798
What does "The city of OP/Pallet Town" mean?

>>32596417
>Ash is just as competent in SM
I only watched a couple episodes but he acts like a retard and doesn't seem to get anything done. Has the series' plot started since I watched? Last episode I watched was the one where Team Rocket won, and Team Rocket was the only good part of the episode as usual

>>32600644
A /sp/ meme.

>>32601070
That's something at least, but what does it actually mean? I also saw it in that "The city of Hugh's parents" Pokémon Special pic.

>>32601311
>When both Manchester United and Manchester City were eliminated from the 2011-12 UEFA Champions League in the group stage on the same day (and later that season, again in the Round of 16 in the Europa League), posts mocking ">the city of Manchester" (with a ">" prefix, used for anyone who messes up) flooded 4chan's /sp/ board. When Bayern München and Bayer Leverkusen were both defeated in the first leg in the next stage (the former would go on to reach the final, while the latter would be eliminated after losing the second leg as well), this became ">the city of Bayer", despite the teams not being based in the same city. Since then, ">the city of X" been used for absolutely everything, especially things that aren't cities (such as ">the city of Arsenal" or ">the city of France", or even ">the city of Wenger"). Variants such as ">the shantytown of Miami", which became popular after the Heat fell apart against the Spurs in the 2014 NBA Finals, have also been used.
via tvtropes

>>32601311
>>32601375
also
>people used >city of X, because of an error made by a sports commentator calling referring to a team name as their city, like "City of Arsenal" or something like that
basically "the city of x" after x is a big fat loser

>>32596050
>>Holy fuck, Ash is so competent, how are we gonna write him losing in a fair way?
How about not taking away his opponent's best Pokemon to give him a team of incompetent jobbers, like you did with Paul, and then taking away Infernape's plot armor. He would lose easily.

>>32596448
As another anon put it a while ago, it wasn't just the Greninja who wanted to get stronger and win. Alain and Charizard did so too. When the series started, when that Greninja was a Froakie, Charizard and Alain were challenging the Champion of Hoenn and keeping up with him. Ash mostly played around and trained a full team. Alain and Charizard did nothing but train and only training a single Pokemon. And while Greninja and Ash wanted to win and trained for it, so did Alain and Charizard. And Alain and Charizard had a lot more on line than Ash.

You're saying it doesn't make sense narratively. Then what would make sense? Discarding all of Alain's progress and feelings, everything he's fighting for, and being inconsistent with previously established feats, just to let the main character win? No, that is what doesn't make sense narratively.

>>32597791
So Shota should be the one who defeats Ash, then? Shota meets his rival, loses because of his own shortcomings, finally overcomes them and goes even further beyond, and in the league battle, the most important battle he has ever had, he overcomes his rival and idol.

But I guess that part doesn't matter. Because Ash won :^)

>>32601507
Well they discard all of Ash's feelings every region, so I personally don't care.

>>32601529
You're right, except for one thing: Ash is the MC. He's the one who should be overcoming the odds and defeating the seemingly unstoppable opponent.

>>32601531
Ash's feelings of "I want to win because it's fun!"? Yes, everyone has those. It's not just Ash's feelings.

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>>32601537
Then why the fuck are we focusing on Ash at all then? Why can't we just retire him and move on to a new protagonist?

>>32601549
Because Ash's Pikachu is the mascot of the entire fucking franchise. They replaced every Pikachu's cry with Ash's Pikachu's cry. Replacing Ash means replacing the mascot of the series, his Pikachu. And that's not happening.

>>32601375
>>32601382
Thanks, it's all cleared up now.

>>32601561
Well then they should at least let him fucking win for once if we're stuck with him.
I hate the Ashnime so much, I get angry whenever I think about it in depth. We're stuck with the worst shonen protagonist of all time and the series won't even give him a single victory when it matters because "oh we have to make sure we can reset him at the end of each season!" And then they turn the fucking thing into a Slice of Life with a terrible artstyle.
I stopped watching before the end of Sinnoh but it's just really horrible what they do with it. Ash deserves SOMETHING Jesus Christ.

>>32601573
Ash "deserves" nothing. He has done nothing to "deserve" anything. Well, anything besides being killed off and being replaced. He definitely deserves that.

As for why they don't let him win, that's because he's retarded and incompetent. If he actually won, that would mean he's somewhat competent, meaning the tone of his entire adventure changes. IF he doesn't stop his journey at being a League Champion, which he likely would, but if he still goes on, there's no point. A fucking League Champion, the best of them all, isn't losing a Gym Battle or against a rookie rival.

So basically, he doesn't win because he's incompetent. Letting him win would make him competent. And that ruins everything for a show that isn't ever going to end.

>>32601587
What's the difference between a League Champion losing to a Gym Leader or rookie rival and a runner-up losing to one of those?

>>32601573
>I get angry whenever I think about it in depth.

Well there is your problem.

>>32601587
1. ash wins
2. change protagonist
3. ?
4. profit?

>>32601595
The difference is that he lost the league. He isn't the best. He has more to learn. While a League Champion is at the top.
If he hasn't won a League, he can aim to win it next time. If he already has won a League, there's no point in doing so again.

>>32595798
I remember wanting to kill myself after the loss, then realized it wasn't worth it. Fuck my rage for it is eternal though

>>32601587
Losing to new gyms makes sense because he deliberately handicaps himself by starting fresh in every new region (with only Pikachu as his first mon). But losing every single league doesn't, especially when the league champion isn't the top dog of a region, he just gains the chance to face against the Elite 4 and the true Champion of said region.

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>>32601587

>>32601607
>>32601638
He'd have won the Kalos League if Alan hadn't been there, and Alan was only there because Ash had personally asked him to come.
He didn't magically get less competent and suddenly have more to learn just because he mentioned the league to Alan that day. That's not how things work.

>>32601598
>4. profit?
Depends entirely on the new protagonist, the tone of the show, and the length.
If the new protagonist isn't kid-friendly, but also not very interesting, like was the case with Red from Origins, he isn't going to make profit.
If the tone of the show is not kid-friendly, the viewer base might be smaller, meaning less profit.
If the length of the show is short, it'll definitely make less profit then an infinite show. Pikachu would be long forgotten if he wasn't in around 900 episodes.

On the other hand, if the protagonist is interesting, not kid friendly, more teenagers or adults might like him, making profit.
If the tone of the show is just right, without being too cheesy or too childish, more normal anime fans might like the show, meaning more profit.
If the length is long, but they keep changing the protagonist with each region, then it'll keep on making profit for a long time.

So it really depends on those things.

>>32601671
They could have easily used the SM boy from the games for the SM anime and nothing would be different. I don't know why they couldn't wrap up Ash (and Team Rocket) and do a new series.

>>32601689
>I don't know why they couldn't wrap up Ash and do a new series.
This post summed it up quite nicely >>32601561

Ash will only win a league when his story ends, and that will happen then the anime ends, and that will happen when Pokemon as a franchise dies, and that won't happen because it's too much profitable of a franchise to die. Not at least in the next decades, so enjoy another 50 years of watching Ash lose.

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I'm not going to lie. That shit hit me hard.

To be fair, I actually thought he was going to win that time. Any other series would have had its protagonist winning, and there was so much shit hinting at it, I forgot what kind of anime Pokemon was/is.

>>32601728
Most people that had actually watched the series did. It WAS set up that way and looked like it was going to happen, no matter how many fags sit there and say "I didn't even watch XY but I knew he was going to lose because he always does".

why am I even a fan of this franchise anymore if its so shitty

>>32601728
>Any other series would have had its protagonist winning
Depends on the series. If it was an actually good series, it wouldn't. It would instead find a way to satisfyingly end the battle.

Take Hunter x Hunter, for example. The set up to Gon versus Hisoka was narratively similar to this, and it was even in a tournament. Gon had just gotten a new weapon too, his Nen. But because Hisoka was way stronger, he had his Nen long before Gon and trained much more, Gon lost the battle. But he achieved his goal. Gon himself knew his limits, so his main goal was just getting in a single hit, and having a fun fight. So while the protagonist lost, the battle was satisfying.

A shittier show, however, would just have the protagonist win against all odds. They ignore the power levels they established to let the protagonist win. And ONLY because he's the protagonist, for no other reason.

However, that's not to say all shit shows do the same. Take Pokemon for example. It does most of that, but is shit for different reasons. Greninja lost to Zard, same way Gon had to Hisoka. Greninja learned to control his inner power, like Gon did with Nen. Zard already had power comparable to that, Mega Evolution, and he has had and controlled it since forever. They fight. Greninja loses. They fail at making this process satisfying. Unlike Gon, Greninja wasn't as frustrated and sad when he lost. Unlike Gon, he didn't really care too much about this particular opponent. Unlike Gon, he didn't have a satisfying goal in mind, and he ended up achieving nothing. So on and so forth.

So really, whether a protagonist wins in this situation depends on the type of show it is.

Honestly when they had Ash lose the Hoenn and DP leagues I kinda realized they were just stretching Ash out for the hell of it. Ash winning the Hoenn league would have made sense because it would have been an invite to challenge the Battle Frontier as a higher challenge afterward.

>>32601942
The worst part is, the one he lost against in Hoenn was a fucking Meowth.

>>32601965
Well I didn't mind that since it was obvious his Meowth was strong and had a backstory, and the rest of his team consisted of all evolved pokemon like Metagross, Shiftry, Hariyama, Donphan, and Sceptile, etc.

There was also no shill pokemon for Ash to lost to at the time, Lucario didn't debut till Movie 8 which came out after the league so they probably didn't want him to lose to a Lucario back then.

>>32601983
You might not have. I did. All of what you have said about him applies to Alain, just instead of a base form Pokemon, he had a Mega, but that doesn't make Ash's lose in Kalos any less bullshit. Fuck Meowth's backstory. Pikachu had one too. I'm not hypocritical enough to only think of one of them as bullshit, while accepting the other.

Just because there was no shillmon to lose to doesn't excuse losing to a shitmon. That was by far the most bullshit league battle.

>>32602029
Who was he to lose to in the Hoenn league then? They had to have Ash lose either way, the only alternative is Ash lost to Tyson's Sceptile. As I said there weren't any major shill pokemon at the time, back then they didn't want legendaries in the league, so I can't think of anything else. They also had Ash beat Metagross which besides Salamence are one of Hoenn's most powerful pokemon.

>>32601983
The hoenn leagues felt like the most legit of his losses: in kanto he lost because Charizard was a dick, in johto he lost because of Blaziken shilling, in sinnoh it was a fucker with legendaries on his team, in unova he infuriatingly lost to a retard, and everything has already been said about the bait-n-switch that was the kalos league.

>>32601587
>>32601607
>>32601638
Does everyone here forget how the League in the anime actually works?

Winning the League tournament doesn't make you Champion. It gives you an all-rights-exclusive ATTEMPT to CHALLENGE the Elite 4. Winning a regional League is no small feat but that's really all it is. It's an extra step to doing the actual prestigious act of becoming the Champion, which is defeating all Elite 4 members and challenging the reigning Champion.

If Ash would just win one of these fucking tournaments and just bounce off of the E4 I wouldn't even be mad anymore.

>>32602094
Ash losing in Kanto made sense because Ash was honestly completely terrible as a trainer then.

And there was no bait and switch in the Kalos league, everyone who thought he would win were just deluded.

>>32602127
This. He could just win one and lose to the first E4 he challenges but no, he has to win every single fucking league.

>>32602180
Do you feel superior to other people for claiming you knew a result in advance after it was already revealed?

>>32595798
How did anyone actually think they'd let Ash win?

>>32602429
Its not a matter of feeling superior. The kid lost every league before, so what changed? The special snowflake mon isn't a good reason because he had one almost every season, and beyond that, they didn't hype up his victory, just how good he was, and it showed with the Kalos League being his best showing. Leaping to the idea that he would ABSOLUTELY WIN GUYS is braindead Ashfag delusion.

I felt really bad for Pikachu. Fucker wanted this as much as Ash did. And he took out two pseudos and damages charizard, and then shitninja jobbed

>>32602684
Fuck off, you're so full of shit I'm suffocating from here.

>what changed
Everything anon said.
>had one almost every season
Fucking horseshit. Greninja was a hundred times more special snowflake asspull than anything in the show. It literally got a brand new anime debut form and completely unique mechanic just for itself. It was straight up fanfic tier.
>they didn't hype up his victory
The preview literally fucking said "ASH'S VICTORY?"
They set up a classic hero's journey with overcoming his losing condition against his strongest rival, who he'd never beaten. They were signaling it from every fucking direction. Suspecting he'd lose based on precedent is valid, but you're completely full of shit if you claim they weren't signaling a victory and it was a bait and switch.

>>32602834
and it wasn't a bait and switch*

>>32601716
It hit greninja pretty hard too

>>32601902
>comparing a mid season fight to the penultimate of the entire season
wew lad i knew /vp/ was retarded but this is something.

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Reminder!

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You know, I'm not even really sour about this anymore.

Alola not giving a shit about leagues actually helps that. I genuinely hope the animu forgoes any league and just ends with shit going on with the Ultra Beasts

>>32595798
>tfw this screencap reminded me that Rem loses to fucking Emilia
FUCK OFF

>>32604069
>mid season fight
That was the last fight of the arc. HxH still kept going, but that ended there.
Similarly, Pokemon is still on-going. That arc ended, and we're in a new one. But unlike Gon versus Hisoka, this wasn't the last fight, nor the most important one. The last and important fight was the one against Lysandre.

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>>32602515

Anyone ever watch Yu Yu Hakusho in it's entirety?
If Ash wasn't going to win I wish it had been more thematic and purposeful, and didn't just feel like an arbitrary decision.

>>32601716
I laugh at you

>>32604830
the title was the only real reason to believe (nobody but wishful thinking amourfags believed he would until we got news he was in the finals), and considering how misleading the date and dance episode titles were people still should have saw the bait and switch coming.

>>32606060
You're doing an incredibly bad job pretending you were actually watching the show at the time, considering it had more or less been confirmed he was going to the finals like 3 months before that title got announced.

>>32595555
This was a pretty funny hype train though