Why is hail such a shit weather?

Ice-type is shit because it's a play on "a snow ball's chance in Hell" and the world of Pokémon is actually Hell.

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>>32557587
>Doesn't boost Ice type moves like Sun or Rain does to Fire or Water moves
>Doesn't boost a stat by ×1.5 like sand does to SpDef
>Doesn't do anything really

>>32557647

Considering sand both boosts a stat and hurts some Pokemon it really makes no sense for Hail not to, either.
The only reason I can think of is because Sandstorm doesn't hurt 3 types while Hail only doesn't hurt 1.

>>32557587
Hail is entirely neutral or negative in effect.
>Sand gives a stat boost to rock types.
>Sun boosts fire moves
>Rain boosts water moves
>Hail does nothing of note

Then analysing further with a comparison to sand.
>To use sand well you just need a handful of ground/rock/steel types, very diverse typings, you will generally have one or two of these regardless of if you are using sand or not.
>To use hail well you need a handful of ice types, all of which share the same "qualities". Very rarely do you use ice types at all, and never more than one.
>Sand abilities on massive array of pokemon as well as ones that would be great even without them.
>Hail abilities on shitmons and only ice types.

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>>32557647
see, GF thinks that hail is balanced with it's lack of an extra effect because only one type resists it. in practice this isn't the case, but it's GameFreak, they never make good decisions.

there are very few pokemon that benefit from hail that aren't ice-types, and most ice-types kinda suck so you'd be hard-pressed to make a decent full-on hail team.

hell, it'd probably be easier to run a trick room team than a hail team.

>>32557694
>hell, it'd probably be easier to run a trick room team than a hail team
of course it is there actually pokemon that benefit from trick room unlike hail

>>32557587
Doesn't give any or enough benefits to other typings. Only ice types are immune to it (with very few exceptions) while ice types are the only types given benefits for it.
With rain, any one who learns a water attack, thunder, or is weak to fire benefits fron it, most water types have swift swim but there are a few non-waters that have swift swim as well.
With sun, both fire, grass, solarbeam users, pokemon that can learn morningsun/moonlight and fire attacks benefit. Grass types have abilities that boost their speed or give them status immunities in the sun, while some fire types gain even more power,
With sand teams, steels, grounds, rocks, and pokemon with magicguard/overcoat are immune to it. there are many abilities that activate with sand, and pokemon that happen to not be ground/rock/steel with these abilities are immune to sandstorm damage. Also rocks gain a 50% special defense boost, which is great cause most rock types have poor special defense.

With hail, only ice types and pokemon with special abilities are immune to it. Blizzard gets 100% accuracy, but most Blizzard users are affected by hail damage. all abilities that benefit from hail are exclusively on ice types. For hail to be good, it needs to naturally beneift ice types and give a beneift to another typing, like psychic for example, and possibly affect more moves as well.

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>>32557587
>>32557694
>>32557660
>>32557659
You don't use hail as a core part of your team. you use it solely to setup aurora veil and then spam blizzard.
in other words, the only thing that works well in hail is ninetales-A and only because it has the right moves to abuse it's auto-weather. For what it's worth, it's also a good "anti-weather" to teal with enemy teams that rely on the stuff.
>>32557694
Not even that, it'd be easier to run a sandstorm/trick room team.

>>32557706
Slush rush with aurora veil up

At least it got buffed somewhat this gen

From Game Freak's perspective, how would they buff Hail if they had to.

>>32559253

>Rain gives 50% buff to Water.
>Sun gives 50% buff to Fire.
>Sandstorm gives 50% Special Defense boost to Rock Pokémon.

How about 50% something for Ice Pokémon?

Because Ice is shit

http://www.smogon.com/articles/shafted-by-design

Good article for both competitivefags and karenfags

>>32559919
I don't do competitive, but perhaps a 50% boost to Defense as a counterpart to Sandstorm, and maybe actually putting the defenses on most ice types to good use?

>>32557723
Wrong, the only good anti-weather is sand and tyranitar. Shut your mouth.

>>32557587
Does that snot bubble ever drip off or is it permanently attached to his face?

>>32557660
To be fair, only Sand has a good on-switch setter. Politoad is terrible, Pelipper is only decent REALLY because of Defog and let's not talk about Ninetales.

I guess Charizard-Y is also good but that's a mega so there's that.

>>32560480
Torkoal is good
Rapid spin
Stealth rocks
Lava plume
Yawn
Clear smog
Alot of good moves

>>32557587
>Doesn't directly benefit Ice Types in any way
>Blizzard and Aurora Veil are the only things that get buffed by Hail
>Doesn't synergize with other types, only Ice types
>In order to take any advantage at all, you have to use Ice Types, most of whom suck donkey balls
>The Ice types you might actually use are incapable of really using the weather
>Until recently, Abomasnow was the only Snow Warning pokemon. Aurorus was a shit, A-Ninetails is finally just not-shitty enough to run it

If it gave Ice Types a blanket 1.5x speed boost, didn't hurt, say, Water and Steel types, and introduce a few new Hail Abilities that aren't Snow Cloak and Ice Body (And buff the fuck out of Ice Body, I'm talking 1/4 hp), it might see some use on wildcard teams.

>>32559988
But what do you do to anti-weather Tyranitar?

>>32560601
>And buff the fuck out of Ice Body, I'm talking 1/4 hp
oh god no not the return of stallrien anything but that please I am begging you.

Because it only "supports" one type, and that type is fucking shit

>>32560768
>Implying Stallrein can tank SE attacks with 100+ power coming off of 120+Attack stats
It still goes to RU at best.

>>32560502
Unfortunately its also slow as shit, has one good stat, and a meh typing.

hail should make Sheer Cold 100% accuracy and fire moves 50% weaker

>>32559253
What if during the hail some types gain weakness or lose resistence to Ice?

>>32561188
What if I've gained resistances in hail?

Hail's "balance" comes from it allowing a 120 BP move with a 30% chance of inflicting the most debilitating status effect in the game to never miss. That's the trade-off. You can argue that Rain gets both Thunder and Hurricane, but Freeze is still that good that Game Freak doesn't want to buff it any further.

>>32561704
but unlike Thunder and Hurricane, Blizzard is a complete waste of a moveslot without weather due to its accuracy, and weather is too easy to get around/change.

>>32561704
>120 BP
>30% chance to freeze
Neither of those are correct.

>>32557587
They have at least buffed it this gen, with Aurora Veil and making a setter (Ninetales) that can spam fast blizzards without needing Trick Room support.

I run a part rain team in VGC and Ninetales is one of the things I'm most scared of, far more so than Sun or Sand.

>>32557726
One mon has it and his Attack, while decent, is nothing special.

The problem with hail is that it only benefits Icw types (and not by much) and Ice is a shit type defensively with a lot of slow, frail mons. If you want to fix hail, start by fixing Ice type. Giving it resistances to Grass, Flying and Dragon (all of which it already beats so it wouldn't have much effect on existing matchups) would be a good start. I've also seen people suggest making Ice immune to Water which would nerf a type that already has outstanding neutral coverage. Boosting ice damage in hail would also help, but without fixing the type itself, it wouldn't make hail viable.

>>32561704
Please never talk about pokemon again, this was painful to read.

>>32557663
>using ⠻ for the "rr" sound instead of just U and R
>then using the same ⠻ for Q instead of ⠟
Triggered

>>32557587
I would like snow weather.
Slow downs non ice types
Harms Fire types and Grass types

>>32559919
50% chance to freeze (but only for ice types sounds great