This is not a starterwar thread, but more a discussion on the

>>32551231
>This is not a starterwar thread
it will become one sooner or later

>>32551231
Japan cares. Also, a lot of people care about wrestling desu.

Incineroar grew on me. I thought it was kind of stupid at first. I like it a lot more than Torracat, a little more than Litten. Greninja's also one of my favourites.

>>32551231
>but do enough people really care about Tiger Mask and wrestling to base an "iconic" Pokemon slot to it?
Sugimori is a puroresufag.

Also I doubt he gives a shit what the fans think. Nigga does what he wants.

>>32551249
>Japan cares about wrestling meme

Is that why NJPW can barely put asses in seats?

>>32551294
que
If you search NJPW 2017 matches you see the place clearly full, what do you mean?

>>32551313
>Indie gook midgets
>Drawing dimes

Pick one

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>>32551231
I was pretty neutral to it throughout all the leaks, but I instantly loved it once we got to see both it in action and the entries found on the Sun and Moon website. The strong personality it carries and what it does for its line make me greatly appreciate it. Litten and Torracat felt like weak entries to the franchise, especially as starters, until the changes Incineroar brought to the line that ended up bringing a story to its pre-evolutions and fleshing them out. I now love Litten and Torracat in addition to Incineroar because of this.
I tend to like every Pokemon eventually though.

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>>32551231
>but do enough people really care about Tiger Mask and wrestling to base an "iconic" Pokemon slot to it?

No, but some guy working at GF liked those things, and made a Pokemon based off of it. That design was then presented to higher ups, who then approved it.

They don't think that hard about this as hard as you think they do, Anon. What probably happens is they say "we need X water types for this new generation" and all the designers draw what comes in their minds, and approved designs are refined until we get what we get. There's no target audience for each Pokemon.

>>32551351
I don't get it, the place on the matches look full, what do you mean? Not to mention NJPW worked with wrestling superstars like AJ Style, if they "didn't made money" they wouldn't even be able to pay that guy's salary.

>>32551231
>People who like Incineroar, did you like it instantly or did it grow on you?
Here's the thing with Incineroar for me, I initially liked Litten because it's the type of pokemon I like and enjoy using, a fast frail mixed attacker, and of course Torracat made it better.
through out the entire 7 gens I always pick the fastest one because speed in general appeals to me, however this time, I felt somewhat cheated with Incineroar, because now all of a sudden it became a bulky tank rather than a speedy attacker, so naturally I was a bit disappointed, but other than that, I still like it, it actually breathed life in the Litten line instead of being just a plain boring cat.
So it took me some time to get used to being slow, thanks to the severe role switch, but in the end I still like it for what it is.

>>32551231

the more I like incineroar and primarina the more I hate decidueye, it's just not interesting
I really thought he's cool but... it's slowly reaches to me that it's over designed as fuck

>>32551231

it grow on me, although I'm bara furfag, it's because of shitty art, trailer has repaired to me everything, I can't hate his fingers anymore, they are just like a killer hooks

But even if ignore the fact that I'm biased against its design basis and was disappointed when Torracat was so promising, I think Incineroar's execution is poor. I hate the way its limbs taper into tiny ankles and wrists with massive hands. And I don't understand the plume of black fur not being at the tip of its tail. The only things I will credit are how the stripes on its body kind of represent muscle definition and the progression of catbell into wrestling belt as the source of its flame, makes it seem less forced.

in game model is full of life and solid expression

in other hand his promo arts [except dream world which is very solid too] are shit, I might get used to his second official art but... they are just really really bad in comparison to that one shot from coro coro [battle for an ho oh's feather]

>>32551231
>do enough people really care about Tiger Mask and wrestling to base an "iconic" Pokemon slot to it?
No. No one cares what it's based on. They just care if it's appealing. A wrestling fire tiger is cool whether or not you know that it's a reference. It's also expressive and safe, which is what starters go for.

Its execution is a different story, but conceptually it's perfectly "starter."

>>32551240

Yyyyeah, it won't take long either.

>We know that Incineroar is based off of Tiger Mask and is a heel, but I just wonder if that was really starter worthy. I could understand anything from a random 1 stage mon to even a 3 stage one but do enough people really care about Tiger Mask and wrestling to base an "iconic" Pokemon slot to it? It's just strange to me.

Not really. A lot of people do care about wrestling, but for those that don't, Incineroar is a really divisive design and they can simply be put off by it or just think of it as a after thought. Although I guess the same can be said about the other two. Just think about it, all three have this very specific niché that not everyone will like.

Performing sea lion with mermaid theme? Yeah, plenty of people will like it, but there will always be people that would have preferred it to have a different design. Like, remember the Ballio fags, think about what they liked about Ballio in the first place, the thing looked like a clown (even if a kind of threatening looking one, but some people somehow looked past that, which was endearing). You won't get anything of that sort from Primarina, Primarina's more of a performer with dancing and singing involved and its theme revolving about it looking like a mermaid/siren/maid/selkie/blah. The nose? Forget about it, it's pink, no clown has pink nose. On one side, it's just about the most creative Game Freak can get with a sea lion regarding meshing those things, but much like how Incineroar has the wrestling theme/HARDCORE stuff as the divisive factor, Primarina has the whole mermaid/looking cute kind of thing/OHOHOHO style as its divisive factor.

The owl's... actually just about the most expected thing design wise, it doesn't stray too much from what people expected, but again, not everyone will like it. People probably would have liked it to look more like a butler or something of that sort. Oh and no one would be able to see the Ghost thing coming so.

>>32551231
I like it because it has much more personality than the other starters. Also, it's great in doubles, and will be a lot better in all formats when it gets its HA

>>32551231
Personally I would have liked Incineroar to stay on all fours, and have it's bell turn into a mane, but it's the same problem as Blastoise and Squirtle/Wartortle, on it's own it's a great design, it just doesn't seem to slot in with it's prior evolutions, the same kinda can be said for Decidueye, though Arrow is also a thing so I can see that more, and for Primarina.
...I think that's why at lot of people are disappointed in these starters, their final evolutions just seem disconnected from their first and second.

>>32551231
I don't think it's great (though tbf the last starter I really loved was serperior and the only fire starters I like are the lizard and monkey), but it redeemed litten from being total shit. Litten is just boring cat mon #6,843 plopped down in an environment based on a place that's having its ecosystem destroyed by feral cats. Incineroar saves it by doing something new and different, and there's some pretty clever stuff going on with the design (it literally hits below the belt).
Hate the fans, though.

>>32551601
To its credit this hasn't really happened *yet*. People who dislike the design aren't insulting it nor the people who like it, people who do like it talk on how they do. So far gotta commend just about everyone.

I'm in a different spot, to go back on topic. I can care less on wrestling, but I do love the concept of a fire tiger. Incineroar hits that pretty well for me - he looks ferocious, from the trailer he looks appropriately menacing when in action, and I don't care on him being on two legs as long as he acts like the said ferocious, feral menace you'd expect a tiger to be.

I also agree of sorts on the other starters, I wish we would've had Decidueye be more gentlebird/butler-y than Green Arrow say. I also think all the starters have the proportion and theme issues Incineroar has, but people honed in on the tiger for some reason. And >>32552044 hit it on the ball when it comes to the final evolutions being disconnected from their prior ones... though curiously I'd say Incineroar is hit the least by it. Outside of bipedalism Incineroar looks similar to Torracat and doesn't have as many glaring human accessories suddenly popping up.

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>>32551231
What /vp/ don't understand is that Incineroar is supposed to pander to kids, not to manchildren.
His design is relatively memorable and kid-friendly; he looks like a cartoon character, but he still has kind of a 'cool' wrestler aesthetic; and he's certainly is a lot more memorable than 'it just gets bigger'.

>>32552164
Part two of >>32552213 post.

Fan-wise I think a ton of fans got tired of the bashing and get touchy, and I think they have every right to be after all of that. The fan threads are pretty comfy outside of baiters.

As for in general, I meant to say I think due to being a fire tiger Incineroar's probably my favorite mon and I like it and Litten pretty equally, with Torracat being a fine in-between to me. I still think the cat's gonna see boosts in popularity once it's seen in action in the movie and anime, and it gets its HA and move tutors.

People only hate Incineroar because it's yet another fighting themed Fire starter. At least GF had the decency of making it Dark type.

>>32552283

https://youtu.be/jB1eqKFPJnE?t=84

>>32552302
I'm fine with it, might even like it once it gets its HA, but had it been fire/fighting I would have hated it with a passion.

>>32552302
But you also forgot that they're upset because Incineroar continues the trend of every fire starter being bipedal. If I recall, most were hoping that Litten wouldn't "stand up" when it evolves moreso than it becoming part Fighting.

I'm just mad that it loses speed and has weird muscles. Also, something about the facial expressions it pulls in several official artworks seem uncanny.

>>32552283
>And he's certainly is a lot more memorable than 'it just gets bigger'

I wish I could say he'd be memorable to me, but after being the bearing witness of plenty of Fire starter mons, he barely stands out from the rest. Something about its design just kind of gets dulled out among the rest of the starters. Fire/Dark isn't exactly new either, we just never had another Fire/Dark since... the Houndoom line, I think. Game Freak wants me to get excited over it, but at the same time, I'm just sort of uttering a really not-so-eager apathetic "yay". I'm a Fire fag to my very core and even Delphox makes me more excited about its concept than Incineroar. Even though I know how infamous Delphox is regarding its bare usefulness competitively. Delphox's idea behind it just feels fresher compared to Incineroar's to me. I'm not talking about design itself either, Delphox is as bipedal as Incineroar is and they both use their own method to spew fire (Delphox its wand and Incineroar its belt).

Then you compare Delphox to previous mons and you realize that no Fire starter has ever had that "magic" approach to it like Delphox did. Then you compare Incineroar's brute force/raw strength to the previous mons and... It kinda falls down because there's plenty of Fire starters like that.

>>32552283
based hopebi$cuit for drew that fakemon

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>>32552603
Who IS Hopebiscuit, anyway?

It easily has the best personality of all three starters. Decidueye and Primarina feel lame and dull in comparison. But that's just my opinion on the matter. I didn't like its design without context, but seeing its personality and how it moved within the game brought it all together for me in a way it just didn't with the other two.

>>32552702
the creator of incineroar & co