This is the pinnacle of remakes and pkmn games in general

but that's gen 4

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>>32480473
>HGSS were released 7 years ago

>>32480473
It was before Pokemon experienced its reboot into a seemingly infinitely expanding series where Ash doesn't age and the art style shifted (Gen 3), moving away from the old watercolor style.

As for the games, they have the most content in them (HGSS) which is why they feel so good to play. My favorite game is Storm Silver by Drayano since it expands the catchability of certain mons like Houndour who I can get earlier.

>>32480473
>game doesn't get good until Kanto
>Kanto isn't even good until HGSS
They're good in content, but all of the relevant stuff comes halfway into the game after you've slogged through the slow as molasses Gen IV battles against level 20 shitmons for an eternity.

>>32480473
inb4
>but muh pokémon distribution
As soon as you get Surf you can unlock the Safari Zone and all these Pokémon, so please try bring up a better argument next time:
>Graveler
>Magneton
>Magmar
>Wobbuffet
>Fearow
>Sandslash
>Marowak
>Girafarig
>Stantler
>Smeargle
>Clefairy
>Jigglypuff
>Poliwhirl
>Skiploom
>Sunkern
>Wooper
>Haunter
>Mr.Mime
>Hypno
>Murkrow
>Arbok
>Grimer
>Koffing
>Golbat
>Larvitar
>Doduo
>Lapras
>Machoke
>Kangaskhan
>Nidorin@
>Rhyhorn
>Tauros
>Farfetch'd
>Ditto

A bunch of cool Pokémon become immediately available. And 4 badges is pretty damn early.

>>32480924
You can already get most of those or their unevolved forms by then in the originals nerd

>>32480473
>game has rematches

Yeah but you can only do it after you beat the e4 when it isn't a problem anymore.

I love HGSS but they are the worst remakes

Frlg > oras > hgss

>>32481010
Also want to add crystal was my first game and I love Johto but HGSS are not that good. They are a prettier version of GSC that's about it.

>>32480473
>Gen2

>>32481010
Retarded taste

>>32481010
Shit taste

>>32481010
This is the most tryhard contrarian opinion I've seen on this board

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>>32480473
>>32480924
>first point is defense against common criticism

>>32481010
>frlg
>haha can't have Crobat, Espeon or Umbreon XD

>>32480954
Point still stands. Murkrow, Mr. Mime, Magmar, Marowak, Clefairy, Kangaskhan, Tauros, Lapras are all fairly rare Pokémon, and you can get some fully evolved (Arbok, Hypno, "Magneton") or other late stages that you have otherwise perhaps skipped (Girafarig, Stantler, Sunkern, Skiploom, Machoke). You basically get a second shot on many early-game Pokémon and a bunch of extras that used to be hard to find in the originals.

>>32480473

HGSS are objectively garbage games.

Gen 2 as a whole is objectively garbage. It's overrated trash that is only loved because of Kanto creating the illusion of more content.

>>32481242
You can have Crobat just not before postgame
I used to be a faggot that got obsessed with Chansey (and on a Safari Ball on top of it) with Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Blizzard etc and I kept making it battle the bikers on the bike road until it evolved at around level 40 but it didn't really evolved. I was so confused. Fuck you GF sorry for the blog friend

>>32480473
They're hit hard by gen 4's shitty engine and by the level curve being garbage. Yes, it's an actual complaint - the games being nonlinear at one point doesn't defend against fighting level 15 and 17 Ratata and Zubat right before the 7th fucking gym.

Kanto and Hoenn have the same kind of non-linearity but without the godawful level curve. I love Johto in general but HGSS missed out on a huge opportunity to tweak some things.

>>32481417
I wish you were wrong but after replaying my HG I'm really beginning to get worn down by just how much grinding you have to do. If you don't raise something from a very early point in the game then good luck getting it to a respectable level. It would be different if they had a VS Seeker built in but with incredibly rare trainer battle phone calls and level ~25 Pokemon before the fucking Victory Road, you're fucked.

It's one of my favorites since Crystal was my first Pokemon game but boy did they fuck up the remakes.

>Game has rematches with all 16 gym leaders,e4 and red

The Gym leader and E4 curve are pretty okay in between just the Gym leaders, for the most part.

It's everything else that's shit.

>>32481417
You can't explore either of them as openly as Johto. And the level curve doesn't really matter as any pre-gen v game it gives you just enough experience that you can carry a full team or a 4 poke team heavy with slow growth mons to the E4 as long as you don't waste any.

>>32481273
My point is that the shit distribution is a meme by hoennbabbies who spam repel everywhere as they're used to their shit-tier region where literally a third of the map has the same three lines in the encounter table. HGSS didn't fix the distribution because there was nothing to fix.

>>32481654
From what I remember, in Johto after you defeat Morty you can go to Olivine, Cianwood, or the area around Mahogany. In Hoenn right after you deliver the letter you can stick around Dewford, go to Slateport, and then from there reach Mauville and Verdenturf or whatever the fuck it's called. That needs a bit more clearing (kick Team X out of the museum), but you can skip Brawly for quite a while. I forget exactly where you can go in Kanto but the only constraint is literally Cut and Surf (so Misty and Erika only, and then you get everything else pretty much). The amount to explore is more similar between Kanto and Johto, so there's really no excuse for the level curve to be so poor.

>>32481695
The only part of Johto's map that is inaccessible after you beat Morty is Blackthorn and it's surrounding routes (i.e. Ice Path and the northernmost part of Toute 45). Your move.

>>32481744
Okay, so I can go left or right. But going right enough it's blocked off.

>>32481744
So the same as Kanto pretty much? In Kanto you can beat three gym leaders (Brock, Misty, and Erika) and then you have the entire region without the poor level curve. So it's a similar situation, only without level 15 and 17 pokemon for most of Johto. If I'm wrong here, please correct me.

>>32481283
Fuck off.

>>32481796
He is kinda right though.

>>32481273
>>32481691
You both could realistically settle this by comparing the distribution up to a certain point in the games.

>>32481794
Brock Misty and Lt. Surge. After that, the region pretty much opens up to you, You can go in any order you'd like up until Cinnabar because Surf.

>>32481834
Lt Surge is Fly only, you don't really need him. Erika is Surf(?) I think. You just need Misty for Cut.

>>32480473
First, It's gen 4

Second, My problem with this game is that it's just boring

>>32481283
I would still like it even without Kanto.

Heart Gold and Soul Silver are easily the best pokemon games to date, with Black and White 2 coming in in second, and Emerald on third.

>>32481794
It's in the middle. Also you have to go through the cities with the gyms rather than being able to skip them and their routes entirely in Johto. Plus keep in mind that the late teens in Johto beforeMahogany is in relation to a champion whose ace is at lv. 50. In Kanto before reaching Fuchsia you face pokes in the late 20s in relation to a champion whose ace is 15 levels higher.

>>32481895
Yes, and? That doesn't really change the fact that Johto has a lot of really underleveled things even relative to when you're able to fight them.

>>32480500
Drayano's Pokemon hacks aren't quite perfect but imo are the best Pokémon experiences available

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A problem that I have with Johto beyond the level curve and region design is that a lot of the pokemon designs are shit. This isn't something that Heartgold and Soulsilver could inherently fix, but it's just a big reason why I can't enjoy Johto at all. If I want to enjoy it at all, I'd have to pretty much rely on Kanto pokemon, and if I want to use Kanto pokemon, I'd go and play Kanto. The only way you can actually fix this issue is by Mega Evolutions, a mechanic that wasn't introduced until 2 generations later. And five of the six Gen 2 pokemon that can mega evolve are in the okay section.

>>32482004
What you really need to fix is your shit taste anon

>>32481993
>Fuchsia
>gym leader has pokemon in its 40s
>wild encounters peak at ~28

>Mahogany
>gym leader has pokemon in its 30s
>wild encounters peak at ~18
Seems like the same level difference to me

>>32482003
I'd enjoy them a lot more if he didn't fuck around with the typings

>>32482027
All right, you got me.

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>>32482004
holy shit dude were you dropped as a baby? the fuck is wrong with you

>>32482004
I agree about designs being bad, but disagree about the pokemon

I cant stand scizor, lugia, mantine and most of johto mons

>>32482004
The Kanto games have completely different mechanics

>>32482099
none of the pokemon games have significantly different mechanics

>>32482004
This is the post of someone who rates Gothitelle, the elemental monkeys, Garbodor and Alolan Persian as good designs

Standard issue contrarian

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>>32482015
>>32482053
I dunno, you tell me.

>>32482113
I assume he's talking about the physical special split. Which really doesn't matter all too much, unless you're planning on doing the in game competitive stuff, like the Battle Tower/Frontier.

>>32482113
>>32482134
There's a lot of changes between Gens 1-3. Not so much between 3 and 4 but stuff like Gyarados really benefit from the phys/spec split. Also holy shit anon terminal taste cancer confirmed.

>>32481821
Not really. You could delete Kanto entirely and HGSS would still be in my top 5

>>32480473
>Game has rematches with all 16 gym leaders,e4 and red
the shitty level curve fucks with that

FRLG are the superior remakes because they fixed the biggest issues with the original game

>>32480473
That's gen IV.

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>>32480496

>>32482527
No it doesnt, if you're so behind by postgame that you cant win, that's no longer the level curve, you just fucking suck.

>>32482956
You literally can't use any of the postgame mons because their levels are too low to keep up with any of the trainers, when i played HG i had to carefully avoid so i could save that exp for new team members and even before that do some grinding so they could have a chance, if you plan on rematching the elite four or Red you can't use anything other than your Johto team because by the time you are done with the Kanto gyms you won't be strong enough to have a chance

>>32482984
Actually you can avoid that problem with careful x-item cheesing

>>32482984
Use the Super Rod dipshit

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>>32483005
Its still annoying as hell, why in the name of fuck did they kept the wild mon levels the same instead of scaling to match the player's postgame team? Why make the gym leaders 10 levels bellow the E4 who is 10 levels bellow Lance? Everything is too weak for your hall of fame team or too strong for new mons, you WILL need to grind if you want rematches but even that is a pain in the ass because the Mt Silver wilds don't give enough exp and the rematch system is not as fast as the Vs Seeker

Compare this with BW, now here is a fun fact, in both games i had 3 pokemon from before and after the champion battle and i had much less trouble with BW, because in BW the wild mons were weak but not that weak while trainers were around the same level the player would be by that point (instead of 10-20 levels bellow like in Kanto), meaning you could get some good exp so your new mons would quickly catch up with the rest of the team if you used the lucky egg or the exp share, everything else could be solved with the Giant Chasm which offered mons that gave good amounts of exp regardless of level, i was actually able to train the infamous Hydreigon all the way to its final evolution using only exp management and the Giant Chasm and it was much less of a pain in the ass than grinding 10 levels multiple times in Mt Silver just so the Elite 4 wouldn't one shot half of my team, just to later be buttfucked by Lance and his army of pseudos 10 levels ahead of you (what the fuck?)

tldr; HGSS aren't bad games, they actually did a lot of shit i liked, but the issues they have go all the way back to gen 2 and that drags them down pretty badly, FRLG issues have more to do with trading

>>32482984
The Kanto gyms are all level 50 to 55 and all the trainers in kanto are at least level 45.

You have about 44 people to rematch and if you're playing the game you'll definitely be getting a lot of calls. Plus, using the guide on Serebii you can call the people yourself and get ~6 battles a day on top of the ones you randomly get

The E4's levels dont raise until after you beat Red (i'm pretty sure) and so you can grind with them.

So while it may be challenging, it's really not close to fucking it over completely

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This would've been the pinnacle of Pokemon games had they done it right

worst game design ever

>>32482027
At that level the amount of experience to level takes a significant hike

So no it's not the same

Stop defending this garbage