This thread again

Looker is the Pikachu of humans.

>>32395326

Don't you mean Red?

>Plot
Looker>N>Lillie>Mr.Fuji>Eusine>Zinnia
>Design
Az>N>Zinnia>Eusine>Looker>Lillie>Fuji

Eusine would've been a cool champion

Silver > Emma > Colress > Nanu > everyone else

>>32395043
>>32395375

Why does everybody hate Zinnia?

>>32395375
What did Mr. Fuji even do in the plot? I don't remember anything and I just played the 3DS release of Red.

>>32395043
what do they have in common?

>>32395445
Because she's a cunt.

>>32395447
There are several hints in RBY and one on Faraway Island in Emerald hinting as to what he may have been and done in the past.

>>32395445
is a /vp/ meme, and she not designed to appeal everyone, is hated as much autistic green math child

>>32395471
kay
could you be more specific?

>>32395043
Wow, you've got that almost perfectly backwards.

AZ > Zinnia > Looker > Lillie > Mr. Fuji > Eusine >>>>>>>> N

>>32395499
>>32368265

Fuji and AZ are just okay. Eusine has great theme music. Zinnia is an obnoxious idiot, but she's amusingly so in my book. Looker is pretty cool but he only really got great in XY for me. N is tolerable in BW1 between how most characters do acknowledge he's crazy, dialogue choices letting you subtly mess with him, and he's never really painted in a positive light, but BW2 made him feel more like some sort of messiah figure and that's annoying. Lillie isn't really outright bad but for how much the game focuses on her as the centerpiece of the story she's pretty weak.

>Eugene
>Mr. Whoji
>Lillie
>Better then AZ And Zinnia

This is factually wrong. Looker and N I can accept, even if they need to be switched.

>>32395523
Aren't you disproving your point?

>>32395445
I don't. I just think the others contributed more to the plot than her

What do any of these characters have to do with each other?

>>32395571
They're unique characters heavily tied in with the evil team and or legendary plot but not already fitting clearly into another role like Rival or Gym Leader

>>32395593
You guys will discuss fucking anything this far from release huh? Maybe it's time I got out of here

>>32395780
There were threads on this subject during SM hype and very close after because they had a new one to pick at, people will talk about anything at any time.

>>32395476
It was never a meme, you idiot. I really don't like your shitty waifu.

>>32395043
Lillie>N>Looker>AZ>Zinnia>Eusine>Mr.Fuji in terms of how well they served their stories

>>32395476
>/vp/ meme
She's hated outside here too

>>32395518
I dont know whether having AZ or Zinnia high up should piss me off more

>>32395563
AZ is literally a non entity for the entire game except right at the end where he gives a huge info dump that only exists to explain why Doritos Pope has the weapon. He does nothing of value for the entire story and felt too much like just a lesser N

Zinnia is fucking shit

>>32395593
Hey, you got it right. Since people always ask why Cynthia isnt here instead of Looker

N > AZ > Zinnia > Looker > Lillie > Eusine

Lillie is so pointless, she does nothing to be useful, Eusine feels like an afterthought

>>32397472
Eusine does absolutely nothing other then fawn over one pokemon in a legendary trio.

Mr. Fuji is just an old man who was held hostage by Team Rocket, and is only interesting when you take in non-canon interpretations.

Meanwhile AZ, while a non-entity for most of the story, the five minutes of the game where he does appear tells us a tale of loss and fits in much better with the two legendaries then the actual story. He has very little effect, but his tale is more interesting then both Fugi and Eusine's.

Zinnia, on the other hand, is one of the most complex characters in the franchise. For better or worse.

I actually don't have anything negative to say on Lillie, I just like both AZ and Zinnia more.

Hide Eusine posters
Report Esine posters, that character is shit

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Design
Lillie > Zinnia > Looker > N > Eusine > AZ > Fuji

Tough choice between Zinnia and Lillie, but Lillie's first outfit had an interesting theme and second outfit was more appealing than Zinnia's. Zinnia's design is almost too busy. Still like it, so second.

Teams
N > Zinnia > Eusine > AZ > Lillie > Looker > Fuji

N had the most interesting and fun team, Zinnia being a second. AZ's team was shit boring, so Eusine won there. Between the Pokemon-less characters, Lillie won because of Nebby.

Character
Lillie > Looker > Eusine > AZ > N > Zinnia > Fuji

The first three choices were simple and obvious. Lillie and Looker are easily the best characters in Pokemon, and Eusine is better than the rest. Between the shit characters, AZ is ahead because he wastes the least time and is the least aggravating. N is ahead of Zinnia because while I hated both, I would actually punch Zinnia. I don't get angry with fictional characters often, but I did with Zinnia. Fuji is just whatever. Shit.

Role
N > Looker > Lillie > Zinnia > AZ > Eusine > Fuji

Just talking about the role they were given, not how they played it out. N had the most interesting one, being a rival and an evil team boss. Look is fun as an International Police Officer, especially in XY and SM. Lillie had a main character and daughter of final boss role. Good, but not as interesting. Zinnia's lorekeeper role was fun. AZ being immortal was fun. Eusine was kind of random, and Fuji is just shit.

Overall
Lillie > Looker > N > Zinnia > Eusine > AZ > Fuji

I completely disregarded the teams rankings. averaged out the score from role, character and design. I don't care about teams, I can easily erase that part, but left it in anyway. If I do include the teams, N and Zinnia would be higher.

I would rate Zinnia overall last, because I think of her character as a negative. But using an average of all things, she gets a better rank. If I used only Gen 4 Looker, he'd be shit, at the bottom, right next to Fuji, so I didn't.

>>32395393
fucking tru.

>>32397746
AZ doesnt work because his interesting tale feels very forced and doesnt mesh well with the story at all. Even shitty ZInnia was more natural than he was, and she literally forces her way into being the mastermind of absolutely everything.

There was no indication of anything related to his story outside the graves at Geosenge, and even then probably not since I doubt they are 3000 years old. His tale needed more time to grow over the story. AZ isnt shit on his own, but XY does him a raw deal.

Since Fugi is impied to have greated Mewtwo, I dont think AZ's story is more interesting than that

>>32398122
I have nothing to say about design other than I disagree, Lillie isnt that interesting a design and ZInnia is too busy.

I think it's not the best to look at role, but not execution, because if executed badly, the good role is even more heartbreaking.

>>32398875
I agree that execution is more important, but the role alone can give a character some weight, so I agree with anon for including that. I personally hate everything about N, but his role alone is interesting enough to put him above a few characters. The final showdown with him felt good simply because of the role of rival he was given. Had it been anyone else, even Ghetsis who attacked the League and you had to confront, it wouldn't have been as good for me.

>>32398898
I dont disagree that role is important, I just think taking both into account would affect things.

>>32395326
He's somehow surpassed Red, Blue AND Cynthia

>>32398875
>AZ doesnt work because his interesting tale feels very forced and doesnt mesh well with the story at all.
I disagree. The bulk of his story came in at the climax of the plot, right at the moment where Lysandre resurfaced the legendary weapon and Menhir Trail was cut off to you because Pokemon were bound to the stones, exactly as it was in the past. For how it was executed in the story as a whole, it happened at the best point it possibly could have.

I do think AZ should have had an expanded role in the story, but his tale was not forced.

The fact that makes Mr. Fuji impressive as a side character is the fact we learned of his involvement implicitly.

I love that style of storytelling.

>>32399438
>The bulk of his story came in at the climax of the plot
exactly. Too much was already hapening in too little of a time. Then a character that we've only seen once before shows up and adds a tonne of information, that ends up not actually contributing anything, and then he disappears again until right before the end.

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>>32398122
>Looker
>No pokemon

>>32401026
He probably meant it in that they don't battle you. Even Fuji and Lillie had Pokemon, the latter of which he even acknowledged in his post. So he was probably talking about battle teams when he called them "Pokemon-less".

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>>32398122
>character
>lillie is first
lillie is the most anoying thing in the SM games.All the shitty moments of random shit like she talking about shopping while i could be catching some mons or the fact that she IS the main character meaning all your achievements are overloked because ``WOW Z FORME LILLIE LOL´´ . If she was a least a good main character i cuold forgive them for making you a standby but no she is just an annoying waifubait
tldr: lillie is shit because she is a horrible waifubait

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>>32401090
You finding her annoying doesn't change anything, really. I liked the character, she was the most fleshed out any Pokemon character has been in a main series game, and I don't think of her as a waifubait. A waifubait in my eyes is Yancy, Shauna or anime Serena, who exists for the sole purpose of being a waifu and have nothing else going for them. Lillie was a character, with all more characterization than most characters in general have. Her being a female and likeable doesn't make her an automatic waifubait to me.

So yeah, sorry you couldn't appreciate a good character, but that's your problem.

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>>32401090
Lillie's hate is fine as soon as your argument is based on how she really became the center of SM plot and took too much time from gameplay to random talk. However, I do think that, correcting the amount of time displayed to her, it could be really fixed, because even though I hated so much all her interventions, I do see an enormous potential in her improvement as a character in the plot and future reappearences. It really felt refreshing seeing all those memories in the end and everything, the way they worked the plot to actually improve the idea of not only creating bonds with your Pokémon, but also with people seems way more comfy and a nice aspiration than one hundred heartless characters as most games had (like XY, for instance). The Looker appearance in the after game in XY seemed the same way (deserving more time than what we got, which I think they tried to fix in SM on the other characters).

Damn, even Hau and Acerola could be funny in many moments. Sure, it's not like they were created with many strategies and stuff, none of them are indeed great characters. But I don't miss how so many of them seemed so pointless, useless and plot convenient in the starting games. BW really was something else for me when I first played it because of that difference. Even though this is just my opinion, I have a hard time to get how people hate so much SMs characters after those crappy forced personalities of XYs rivals, those only one time seen RSE ones and the soulless others from the first two gens.

>>32401090
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48rz8udZBmQ

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>>32401118
hey everybody has their opinion if yours is thinking a wardrobe change is ``fleshing out´´ then i guess thats your problem too

either game freak thinks looker is funny and thats why they keep putting him in every game since platinum, or theyre building up to something big

>>32401118
>the most fleshed out character in all the games
Nope. She's just shitty N.

The amount of time on screen isnt directly related to how fleshed out they are.

>>32401304
Anon, I don't know how to tell you this, but characterization isn't a matter of "opinion". Whether you like it or not is where the opinion part comes in. The amount of detail present isn't something that opinions affect.

>>32401359
>everything is an opinion

>So yeah, sorry you couldn't appreciate a good character, but that's your problem.
>it's not that he disagree,s he's just blind
oh

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>>32401226
it cant be fixed because the only interesting thing about her is the mystery at the begining , the rest of the story is :``nebby get in the bag´´ ``are you going to buy clothes anon ?´´ and then ``waaaaaah my mom dresses me as a monster``

>>32401359
Wait, I read that entirely incorrectly

Now let me reply

>>32401359
No, the amount of characterization given to someone is an opinion, as it is entirely possible to think that they did not give as much as someone else thinks

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>>32401366
>existence of any mystery
>a small but existent relation to the plot in the design
>character actually talks to you like any actual person commonly does during a long trip

This is the thing: she isn't a good character, but is close enough to something that carries a heart in a Pokémon game. Yes, this franchise is not well known because of the characters they introduce in both game and animes. But Lillie, at least it looks that way to me, does seem more real than the other 90% of characters we had in those 20 years in the game. That's exactly the joke. She just doesn't need to be as present as she was for the sake of not extending too much the dialogue (that introduction of her in every single place of melemele was the worst). But even being a mediocre personality for a weak character, still got developed better than most of the mentioned people from this thread (with the exception of Locker and, possibly, depending on how much you found yourself immersed in BW, N) and from all games in longer range.

Red, Lance(he's better in Johto), Flannery, Rowan, Hilda, don't know, Team Skull as a whole

AZ and N are total faggots. If you like either of them you should neck yourself immediately.

>>32402148
I disagree, because this seems to be based entirely on the amount of time we spend with her. Plenty of characters have had small moments of character development that far surpass Lillie in my eyes.

Clair in HGSS, Tabitha in ORAS, and even Kiawe in SM, to name a few.

>>32402548
What are you going to do if I dont kill myself, make me?