Pathetic.

ancient poni path was gen 7s victory road

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>>32389034

>>32389034
Aether Paradise was way better than the Rocket Hideout.

>>32389049
haha no. its cute you think that though.

>>32389042
how is this bait? That's a fact. You can argue about the fact that that is not necessarily a pathetic thing maybe.

>>32389049
>a straight hallway battle gauntlet was better than slide puzzles
Yeah no.

>>32389049
Visually more interesting, yes; yet regardless of which it ended up as overly spacious and barren.

>>32389042
>having maps that are actually fun to go through is bait

haha yeah ok.

>>32389040
no. Mt. Lanakila is Victory Road. Lanakila even means 'victory' in hawaiian. That's like saying Mt. Coronet is Sinnoh's victory road.

>>32389049
I agree with this. Rocket hideout was retarded. The "puzzles" like those teleporters and the slides were retarded. The teleporters were just one big waste of time, as there was no thinking involved and you just had to solve it through trial and error, and the sliders were a bit better, but still too easy to matter.

Not to say I prefer nothing over them, but I prefer nothing over them.

>>32389088
t. underage

>>32389073

I didn't mind it. But I will admit, I was expecting to have to fight through the mazelike Conservation Area at some point. From the first visit, it just screamed "late-game evil team dungeon." I was pretty shocked that it never happened.

>>32389101
t. nostalgiafag

>>32389049
Aether paradise was the worst part of any pokemon game yet In my completely honest opinion. I had more fun on tutorial island and helping that fag catch a Ralts like Aether paradise is fucking awful

>>32389049
This is true.

>>32389034
>distortion world is a alien like world you can explore
>ultra space is a fucking walkway to lusamine
riveting.

>>32389034
Honestly I thought Sun and Moon were great until I replayed the old games.

It's fucking astounding how much more actual gameplay an older game has over these. Fuck even Kalos feels like a more complete region. Everything is just a fucking curved path with some grass on the side. They fucked themselves by designing the geometry of the island before they designed the levels.

>>32389034
Wasn't Poni Canyon supposed to be Victory Road?

>>32389034
>Pathetic.
No, it's not. It's actually all better than before. Except the Ultra Space. That was a bit disappointing.

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>>32389407
>it's better to have no level design than to retain it or better yet, improve on it

This is how far we've gotten in 20 years.

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>>32389034
Yet more proof that Shit and Poo are the most hated games in the series.

Pokemon is dead.

>>32389439
>level design
Don't throw around terms you don't understand. SM had great level design. The dungeons were a bit lacking, though. The routes, on the other hand, were open, intuitive and interconnected and great.

>>32389452
Get out of my thread you fucking retard.

I hate Sun and Moon but I hate you more. You are not convincing anyone of anything, just causing needless shitflinging instead of proper discussions about the shortcomings of the games.

Fuck off.

>>32389049
Visually it is.

>>32389049
Especially considering it actually resembles someplace an organization would reside

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GameFreak hasn't figured out how to actually work with 3D Overworlds yet without pushing the 3DS too hard, which is why most of the areas are linear, small and tight.

>>32389049
It looks cool and that's it. Actually that's SM in a nutshell: it looks cool and offers no other substance.

>>32389492
>tfw romhacks are the only new comfy pixel art pokemon games we'll ever get.

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>>32389456
This is good route design.

>>32389456
>>32389501
Define good level design.

>>32389439
>Level design
>In a series that isn't level-based

>>32389073
Honestly I think I'd rather have the empty space. Rocket Hideout being filled with weird sliding tiles didn't really add anything to the area, and didn't feel thematically appropriate either. It made the place feel like a video game level, rather than a criminal hideout.
Of course, I'd take a thematically appropriate puzzle over both of those things.

>>32389501
How.
Using repels and pressing B all the way is all in all the same as the other routes.

>>32389527
>It made the place feel like a video game level, rather than a criminal hideout.
That's exactly what it's supposed to do, how it's supposed to be and why it's good.

Level design must service gameplay. Not realism.

>>32389524
when's the last time you played RBY?

>viridian forest
>mt. moon
>rock tunnel
>power plant
>silph co
>rocket hideout
>seafoam islands
>pokemon mansion
>victory road

>>32389501
it's just a long route. Long route does not mean good route.

SM is more based in the story (which is pretty good for me), the environments and places are only made to serve the story as a background.

>>32389539
>Level design must service gameplay.
But it doesn't do that either. The only thing the sliding tile puzzles do is waste your time.

>>32389501
>it's big so it's good
It's the opposite, anon. Too big is bad. That route is relies on you having the fast bike to go across, but has areas that cannot be accessed without the other bike, forcing you backtrack unnecesarily. The route also has the huge grass, a terrible feature I'm glad is gone. It stopped you from using your bike, something you must use and you want to use, forcing you walk slowly, interrupting your pace. It being big is a problem because you have a long way to go before any Pokemon Centers, pretty fucking your entire game plan if a weak Pokemon you're training faints, or if you run out of PP. That is annoyance, unless you happen to have exactly the item you want. It also forced you to use Repel, otherwise it's even slower. It's filled with annoying things that some will defend because they somehow like being annoyed.

>>32389515
For SM, I think the level design is good because the routes are wide open and free, you can easily move around and things don't ever get in your way, and because of the nature of the four islands, the routes all curve in on themselves. You get to a route, there's an area you can't access, but eventually, you will come back through that locked area and make the routes all interconnect and just nice to explore through.

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>>32389456
>i-it's great! you just don't get it!

Pokemon Sun and Moon have had the weakest level design of any game in the main series by far. The only area in the game that sticks out is Poni Canyon.
The majority of SM's areas and routes were either just big open spaces or linear paths with trainers flanking it. There's no thought put into the design of the areas. The routes being interconnected hardly means shit considering how linear the game actually is. When you're being railroaded from point A to point B for the entirety of the game then what good does the interconnectivity of the routes do? What does it lend to the game overall, especially when the routes themselves are just linear paths?

Meanwhile in previous games, coming across areas with puzzles wasn't uncommon. There were dungeons that actually required thought to get through. Not a whole lot of thought, but it was still there. You had dungeons and caves with multiple rooms and detailed layouts, routes that weren't just a line with trainers facing sides, etc. You had areas that actually encouraged the player to explore should they have the means for it or come back. Majority of Sun and Moon hardly had any of that. Replay the games from Gen 1-4 then compare the areas and routes there to SM. GF tried hard to incorporate story and apply realism to a video game, and it shows.

>>32389088
>Puzzles are useless on an adventure game hurr durr
Go play showdown, you're wasting your money if you think of pokémon just as a battle simulator. On showdown you'll have a superior experience anyway when we are talking only about the battles.

>>32389492
>GameFreak hasn't figured out how to actually work with 3D Overworlds yet without pushing the 3DS too hard,
You say that but even XY had far better layouts. Also they aren't pushing the 3DS, that's just their incompetence.

>>32389607
>the routes are wide open and free, you can easily move around and things don't ever get in your way
Lack of obstacles, complexity and to a lesser extent nooks and crannies are exactly why Alola routes suck, and Route 119 is great because it has these, not just because it's big although that's still a definite plus.

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>>32389492
>>32389500
>yfw gen 8 is back to 2D overworlds with an option to choose between 2D or 3D battles

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>>32389641
Please anon I'm getting pre all over my jimmies.

>>32389614
>Replay the games from Gen 1-4 then compare the areas and routes there to SM.
Make that 1-6 even gen 5 was linear but hadma perfect compromise between the explorative nature of pokemon without it feeling like it dragged on and XY, while simplified, still had level design reminiscent of past games. SM didn't even have an ice puzzle after all.

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>>32389034

It saddens me that people defend this

>>32389456
You are the one who doesn't know shit about what you are talking about.
>SM had great level design
Yeah sure, especially with things like the second trial, right?
>>32389501
This nigga got it, my favorite route in the franchise so far.

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>>32389614
Big open routes still means easier and more intuitive travel, and less annoyance, and that is good. It all being interconnected and open is important because it feels fucking good going through it. Unlike previous games, where your bike is hitting things left and right, interrupting your flow, you can ride Tauros at max speed without interruptions, and there's still enough curves and interconnected routes that it isn't all a straight path. You're still claiming that SM had the weakest level design, so what is good level design to you? Something that just throws in puzzles randomly? Shit puzzles, to be specific? Like that fenced route in Kanto? It wasn't open or straight, so it must be amazing level design to you, despite being nothing but a hassle to explore?

I'm not going to defend the dungeons in SM. They were a disappointment, except the last one. I wanted more of that. But that's still hardly the worst the series has to offer. Most of the dungeons in this series are shit. There were a few good ones, like Distortion World or the one with Lapras in Johto, or Ho-oh Tower. I miss them as much as anyone. But most of the shit from Kanto and Sinnoh was just that: shit. Oh look! It's DARK! How about you use Flash to explore this otherwise empty cave?! HOW EXCITING! Oh look! Some boulders! How about you use Strength to push them in a few holes?! HOW SMART OF YOU! Oh look! You need to precisely time your bike to jump from these ramps and even a little mistake means starting from the beginning! Don't forget Repels, or you're fucked! ISN'T IT FUN?!

Fuck that bullshit. I am disappointed by SM's dungeons, I liked a few dungeons from Johto and even Unova, I HATED Kanto and Sinnoh shit. Between disappointment and hatred, I pick disappointment.

If I'm playing a game, I'm not playing to be annoyed. It's to have fun. And I don't find those sad excuses of puzzles fun. If there is no puzzle, at least I'm not being annoyed by shit.

>>32389820
So, the ideal map design for Pokemon is "open straight routes and puzzle-filled dungeons?"

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>>32389820
How dare you use an Edgeworth reaction and present such a sloppy argument.
Just look here you're complaining that routes are too small for bikes when that's all down to a player issue. The only time where it was an "issue" was in gen 3's cycling road where it was designed specifically as a challenge to get through without colliding with the walls

Pokemon dungeons were never good.

>>32389878
Is anyone actually able to use bikes without constantly bumping into things, though? Even if one in a hundred is, you're still alienating the other 99 players to pander to one elitist faggot.

>>32389501
No, no, it's not.

>>32389571
That's a stupid way to look at things though because you can apply the same shit-tier logic to every puzzle ever.

>>32389900
>Is anyone actually able to use bikes without constantly bumping into things, though?
Most players can fairly easily.

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>>32389820
I go with this man.
Fuck off all.

The people need something in what support, to bitch about SM, but in the most cases those supports are pretty weak , that's a fact who i begin to see and is pretty stupid .
But well, probably the people who come here nowadays defend and love games like DP (or even Platinum), their opinions can't be seriously taken.

>>32389918
Honestly, I find that hard to believe, as I or anyone I have ever introduced to Pokemon doesn't fall in that category. Not going to talk about Generation 6, as it was particularly bad, but most of people tend to bump far too often. To the point this is a normie meme.

>>32389927
The fuck are you trying to say?

>>32389927
You should go back to school, kid. I'm sure your grammar teacher still has some things to teach you.

>>32389942
>To the point this is a normie meme.
What?
Its never been a meme. Is this all happening in your head or something?

>>32389571
video games ARE things designed to waste time.

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>>32389894
I genuinely don't understand the arguments people have against more complicated routes and dungeons in pokemon

It's always
>they're too long
>you need HMs
>puzzles are boring
>you need repels/you can just speed through with repels
>you need a bike
whining

Why not just play on battle sims, since they so clearly don't enjoy playing the actual games?

>>32389034
>using the Reverse World as an example
>literally the first "walkable cutscene" area in Pokemon, with absolutely nothing to do but take in the WHOA SO COOL scenery and fight a boss

lmao

sinnohfoeti are this delusional about their shit generation

>pokemon never had good level design in the first place - which is why all routes should be straight lines in-between gyms

>>32389948
>>32389952
Language barrier i guess, I'm German.

>>32389993
Why not just play actual JRPGs instead of a shitty, watered one like Pokemon?

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Route 23 has my favorite level design of any route in the series. I love the fact that it has multiple layers, a big optional area at the end and the music is great.

>>32390129
BW2 had the best Victory Road too, it wasn't a slog to travel through and I liked how the scenery kept changing as you went on.

>>32390096
I play both, but I still enjoy pokemon. What is your argument?

>>32390166
Yeah, it's amazing. Both Victory roads of Unova are my favorite by far.