Power Creep

>>32384325
Didn't Hoopa get banned?

>>32384350
In gen 6. It is OU in gen 7, same as protean greninja.

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>these are the stats of an OU pokemon
>not even a dominant OU pokemon, just a decent one

What the FUCK happened?
because gamefreak can't make a decent move sets for a box legend

>>32384365
gen 5 box legends have shit movepools for some stupid reason. literally what the FUCK

>>32384325
I would argue speed creep is just as big, if not a bigger factor than power creep. If you don't have over 100 speed you might as well run trick room. Even then, you need over 110 speed to be really good. What the fuck is that.

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>>32384325
on the other hand..

>people actually thought it would be shit with stats like that

>>32384325
free fell stinger kill for m-beedrill desu
it just dies to any physical bug attack ever, and since it's so slow any bug outspeeds it

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>these are the stats of a PU pokemon
>not even a dominant PU pokemon, it's barely used at all

This is how dumb you sound.

>>32384400
I think it more of the fact it has to net a kill to mega evolve.

>>32384400
/vp/ don't know shit about competitive

>>32384400
>extreme offensive minmaxing + item-holding
>basically megafug jr.
>people actually thought it would be shit
Who the hell did, and for what reason?

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This is a mid tier ou mon. Say something nice to her

>>32384424
/vp/ has a shit track record when it comes to competitive
>>32384433
shit movepool

>>32384433
amazing in VGC

>>32384433
paper samurai is a girl?

>>32384424
People thought because it's need to kill something to megaevolve, it would be shit.
What people don't get it's how people like to sac weakened stuff, and Ash-Greninja literally prey on those.
Also Greninja in general is still a stronger and a faster starmie with better typing. why wouldn't it achieve the kill?

>>32384411
>80 base speed
>so slow

is this real life now?

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on the other hand....

>>32384379
>If you don't have over 100 speed you might as well run trick room.
Sticky Web is better, the hazard could use more distribution though.

Also less than 60 speed is the Trick Room speed. And 70 is the minimum to go Choice Scarf.

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>>32384475
>marowak

Good typing, good abilities, good moves, item give it Huge Power.

>Muk
I have no actuallly idea what worked so well.

I mean...the speed creep isn't getting any smaller despite many of the alola mon being slow as heck for some reason

1. Pheromosa 151
2. Ash Greninja 132
3. Tapu Koko 130
4. Marshadow 125
5. Ribimbee 124
6. Minior (Shields Down activated) 120
7. Salazzle 117
8. Alolan Persian 115
8. Zygarde 10% 115
9. Lycanroc (Day) 112
10. Alolan Raichu 110
10. Alolan Dugtrio 110

11. Alolan Ninetales 109
11. Kartana 109
12. Nihilego 103
13. Comfey 100
14. Solgaleo 97
14. Lunala 97
15. Mimikyu 96
15. Togedemaru 96
16. Silvally 95
16. Tapu Lele 95
17. Oricorio 93
17. Bruxish 93
18. Zygarde Complete 85
18. Kommo-o 85
18. Tapu Fini 85
19. Xurkitree 83
20. Lycanroc (Night) 82

21. Passimian 80
22. Buzzwole 79
22. Necrozma 79
23. Alolan Raticate 77
24. Tapu Bulu 75
25. Tsareena 72
26. Decidueye 70
27. Alolan Sandslash 65
27. Komala 65
28. Celesteela 61
29. Incineroar 60
29. Primarina 60
29. Toucannon 60
29. Bewear 60
29. Oranguru 60
29. Minior (Standard) 60
30. Alolan Muk 50

31. Alolan Golem 45
31. Alolan Exeggutor 45
31. Alolan Marowak 45
31. Gumshoos 45
31. Lurantis 45
32. Vikavolt 43
32. Crabominable 43
32. Araquanid 43
32. Guzzlord 43
33. Wishiwashi (Solo) 40
33. Golisopod 40
33. Dhelmise 40
34. Turtonator 36
34. Drampa 36
35. Magearna 35
35. Toxapex 35
35. Mudsdale 35
35. Palossand 35
36. Wishiwashi (School) 30
36. Shiinotic 30
37. Pyukumuku 5

>>32384505
Whoops. Meant for >>32384468

>>32384475
>muk is faster than marowak

huh.

>>32384475
>>32384495
It's a great anti-meta pokemon. Pursuit-trapping stuff like Lele and Gengar is nice.

>>32384505
Magearna has 65 speed, anon.

>>32384411
Does anyone run it anything but choicve scarfed?

>>32384527
Huh...not sure how I screwed that up months ago.

>>32384531
I run Choice Band!

>>32384475
It still tickles me that muk and marowak are considered so good this gen.
Not even lower tier pokemon with OU niches, just straight up OU.

>>32384559
Alomomola

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>these are the stats of an OU pokemon

>>32384984
>100% accurate hurricane
>tailwind
>drizzle
>roost
>u-turn
>scald
>defog

>>32384325
>>32384365
>notices speed tier
>owo what's this

It's not power creep, it's speed creep. GF identified the issue and completely botched the solution.

>>32385003
>>32384984
Really, most weather setting pokemon wish they had the support tools pelipper does.
It took one generation to completely usurp politoed.

>>32384415
With a priority and a z-move slot (something most megas don't get), it's not THAT hard

>>32385003
It's almost as if stats aren't the only thing that decide a pokemon's viability

>>32385036
Don't be silly. Pokemon's viability is decided by the players. If every team started carrying sunkern, it'd be OU

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>This was one of the premiere mons of OU just one gen ago

>>32385054
But no serious team would ever use Sunkern because Sunkern is shit.

>>32385083
so are politoed and pelipper and yet here we are

>>32385079
Wow I never noticed how mediocre Clefable's stats actually were. I guess being a Fairy type along with a good movepool and ability is just that good.

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>>32385087
(You)

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>>32385092

>>32385079
>>32385088
I think it has more to do with the fact that the number of viable fairies were scarce until Gen VII. Garbage like Sylveon was OU in XY

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>this was a gen 1 OU mon

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>>32385250
Alakazam wasn't even the king of gen 1 OU

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>>32385260
>>32385250
you are like small babies, observe

>>32385250
Nigga is BL this gen and is solid B rank OU.

>>32385271
>being vulnerable to hyper beam in gen 1

>>32385271
eviolite chansey is still fucking disgusting

>>32385250
>sp.def
>gen 1
shit don't add up

>>32385287
smogon lists spa and spdef seperately for gen 1. But always identical

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this is a PU shitmon that learns roar, recover and rapid spin

>>32385306
if avalugg was steel, what tier would it be?

>>32385296
What even was the point of the special stat? Was that intentional, or where they legitimately unable to make it into two separate stats at the time? In both cases, why didn't they make a "physical" stat in the same vein?

>>32385312
probably somewhere around A rank

>>32385312
UU at the very least. Avalugg has such an amazing stat spread and movepool, it's just that ice is that shit defensively.

>>32385314
I think most jrpgs don't have a magic defense stat and pokemon just followed that rule, until GF realized that was dumb and split the stat.

>>32384447
I love pairing it with Adrenaline Orb Milotic since Arcanine is it's most common answer and then just win with Milotic.

>>32384400
Who is this

>>32385344
ash greninja

>>32385328
>>32385314
It was the Intelligence-analogue

>>32385054
In that case being OU doesn't mean it's viable, it'd be OU but still suck.

>>32385214
>Sylveon
>bad
Nigga. Pixilate Sylveon is insanely good. The problem now is that it lacks Hyper Voice, which is a huge bummer. Move tutors in our next Gen 7 game will help it.

>>32385362
>what is pokebank
Anyway Sylveon right now is kind of obsolete because Primarina outclasses it in UU. Yes, Sylveon has a harder hitting fairy STAB, but Primarina has a better movepool, typing, and hits harder outside of fairy moves.

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>this will be a uu mon in gen 12

>>32385404
Depends. M-Ray dropping would require mons with around 2,000 BST or more.

>>32385312
top 5 OU

Consider it's literally the #1 used mon in inverse.

This thread reminded me of the bullshit yugioh power creep. An anon on /v/ a month back posted a webm of a match ending in less than 10 turns.

>>32385894
>less than 10 turns
optimal decks can win in 3 turns, only one if you're lucky

>>32385898
>only one if you're lucky
To be fair, that's technically been true since Exodia decks.

>>32384505
Nihilego being at 103 gets me every time

Speed state in general is way too important compared to pretty much all other qualities a Pokemon can have, sans ability. They fucked up back when the game was first designed and now they don't know how to fix it, so they just fuel the creep.

>>32385894
I tried to get back into yugioh like a month ago and my friend showed me what the meta was like.
Never again

>>32385894
Yugioh has been a 2-turn game for a very long time. It's actually only just now started to take longer (3 turns) again due to recent balancing attempts.

>>32384423
Fuck off smogonfag

>>32385312
It would not be much better, Steel doesn't cover Ice's weaknesses at all and adds extra vulnerability to Fire and Fighting as well as an always unpleasant Ground weakness.

>>32386161
At least it would resist Confounding Cummingtonite rather than being weak to it.

>>32386162
It would not in fact be resistant to Looming Lignite.

>>32384505
>I mean...the speed creep isn't getting any smaller despite many of the alola mon being slow as heck for some reason
Because despite 99% of Alola mons being slow, no moves shitmons the remaining 1% is REALLY fucking good. And the 1% actually influences shit unlike that 99% who's going down to PU.

I have no idea how the same people can design a "slow bulky mixed attacker" and think it won't be shit and then turn around and create a monster like a Marshadow and think it's perfectly balanced.

>>32386161
He meant pure steel, not ice/steel. And it would be leagues better - it doesn't matter that ice and steel share many weaknesses because steel resists so much more.

>>32384468
It's slower than many gen 1 mons anon, 80 speed has never been much

>>32385956
It should really be balanced against skill, a la FE. Even if you're Deoxys S, without the skill to use your moves correctly you aren't hitting shit.

>>32385088
Also unaware.

>>32386169
This is true. When faced with Obfuscating Obsidian, the resulting damage is neutral.

>>32386220
>pokemon
>skill
that's a really weird way to type "copying smogon teamsets and disconnecting untill i get a scrubb who i can 6-0 for the EPIC SWEEP"

>>32386693
I thought they were suggesting that Avalugg be pure Steel (and thus resistant to Dastardly Dolomite) rather than Steel/Ice (which would take neutral damage from Cockblock Cobblestones as you mentioned).

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>>32384505
>has 132 speed
>has a multi hit 60 base damage priority move that OHKO the only thing that's faster than it

>>32386994
Scarf Lele is a viable set at least, so it eats Ashninja for breakfast.

>>32387319
>Scarf Lele is a viable set at least
until muk gets switched in

>>32384505
The real problem here is Speed stat in Pokemon is fucking archaic, it is hands down the most broken stat in the entire game when combined with inflated offense.

Gen 6's higher focus on priority wars were actually a step in the right direction to complimenting and balancing things. Then comes along Top Lel who just shits all over priority and it devolves the entire game by 3 odd Gens by making everything under 95 speed that isn't a Tapu complete cannon fodder.

Oh and the cherry on top besides making status now near impossible to use because of Fini being common as well. Paralysis is only 1/2 speed instead of 1/4 and doesn't even work on one of the fastest things in the game.

It just comes back to the same thing, GF are complete hacks at balancing their own game. They don't have a fucking clue what they're doing.