Explain why you dislike her

>>32368265
I don't dislike her, I don't like her. She's just there like most pokemon characters.

Because she's fucking nuts. Like, "I would call the police if she came to my front door" nuts.

Look at her fucking battle intro. She went from "kind of odd" to "mentally unstable" in 5 seconds flat.

Her entire color scheme is black and red, and that gorilla pose she does before you battle her is weird as fuck

She's worst girl of the remake.

>>32368265
Her plan makes no sense, her personality was annoying, she shit talks everyone and goes on about unreasonable bullshit and potentially kills everyone and gets away with it all.
Put simply, she's a villain, and people dislike villains. Villains are made to be disliked.

>>32368321
>can* potentially kill everyone

when you think about is, she endangered just as many people as archie and maxie by destroying the dimensional link for possibly irrational reasons.

But she is, she has all the traits of a Deviantart OC

File: living room.jpg (249KB, 1529x859px) Image search: [Google]

249KB, 1529x859px

>>32368300
Now I don't like Zinnia at all but black and red is a fantastic color scheme.

>>32368298
I dunno about you, but that's the reason why I LOVE her character.

>>32368265

Her plan was shit and so was her personality.

>>32368265
I don't appreciate characters that knock you out for no reason.

>>32368321
>>32368392
This, and what's worse is that you're FORCED to side with her. I was aggravated by her personality and plan, and the game made me the only one to understand her. Fuck that. I wanted her to be just fugged, not help her.

>>32368387
This is the best reply in the whole thread.

File: IMG_0882.png (162KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

162KB, 500x500px

I fucking love! Zinnia!

It's explained to death. You need to learn to accept that she's not a very well done or likeable character.

>>32368321
The problem is, she isn't written as if she's a real villain. If she was, I might be able to appreciate her a bit more. But the game forces you as the player to go along with her plan and give her the benefit of the doubt as if she was a sympathetic character. Even after she punches you out off screen, and you learn that her plan would have failed, they give her a melancholy goodbye, as if they don't expect you to think about the severeness of what she tried to do.

File: Clone Pikachu is deterorating.png (100KB, 303x244px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 303x244px

>>32368265
I don't. She saved lives with her actions, however, her haughty behavior obviously pissed off everyone and the fact that she didn't just pop out and tell everyone "hey, instead of sending that meteor to my GBA cartridge, why don't we just get Fug's attention and work with him via Mega-Fugging and just blow it the fuck up? If anything, its the Unovan thing to do".

>>32368265
Shit made shit character on a shit remake.

>>32368265
I don't dislike her. She's legitimately the best character to come out of anything since like gen 2, and the fact that /vp/ doesn't grasp what makes her good shows the fact that for all the whinging about Pokemon's poor level of storytelling they're not suited to consume anything better.

>>32368613
>since like gen 2

whom did we have in gen 2?

>>32368265
She's selfish and insane.
I don't like her dumb gorilla arm battle stance.
She attracts armpitfags/feetfags and other obnoxious people.
A forced character overall.
The only redeeming factor is her battle theme.

>>32368613
Bait.

>>32368633
Silver.

we dont really know her background. or even anything about her. she is just a mishmash of hinted ideas.

Her character is just pointlessly obnoxious unless you make some assumptions based on her backstory which is not explained in the game at all and only in interviews with the director speaking on behalf of the writer.

File: ZShip.jpg (15KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 480x360px

>>32368646

god-tier taste, anon

>>32368265
She's an insufferable cunt who throws everyone else under the bus to further her own agenda and puts up strawmans when people try to go against her plans to further herself

>>32368336

She is also the one who gave Archie and Maxie their plans.

>>32368704
seriously? where is this stated?

File: zianna_gets_fugged.jpg (313KB, 1174x918px) Image search: [Google]

313KB, 1174x918px

>>32368265
>Steals Wally's megastone after the shit life hes had

>Assaults a 10 year old knocking them unconscious and creepily watches them until they wake up

>"Dimensions exist u guize!" with no actual proof to back it up

>Almost drowns/burns the whole planet to call Fug

>>32368711

That's why she's in Aqua/Magma clothes. She manipulated them to cause that shit hoping it would awaken Fug. It didn't, so she decides to go even harder. I forgot where this is explicitly stated, but yeah, Zinnia did it all and nearly ended the world twice.

>>32368720
How does Fug do it?

>>32368766

he is a cool guy

>>32368265
>she's shoe-horned into the main game plot in an incredibly egregious way. supposedly she's the only reason Maxie and Archie went about/were able to go about their goals
>the moral dilemma with the Link Cable was incredibly poorly portrayed. her reasons for destroying it as presented were understandable, but in the actual context of the actual story and how the technology was described, they came off as forced and petty
>the fact that her plan didn't work is automatically negated by you being the one to have Rayquaza Mega Evolve, so even the fact that she was ultimately wrong gets swept right under the rug
>her attitude towards the other characters is incredibly obnoxious. pretty much the only character she treats with any semblance of respect is the protagonist, and even that's shaky.

All of the above wouldn't be so bad, if not for one key factor: instead of being framed as an antagonist or a laughable asshole like Blue or Silver, she's presented as an antihero who's still in the right compared to everyone else.

The phrase Mary Sue gets thrown around a lot, but with Zinnia? It's entirely accurate.

>>32368800

Zinnia also never apologizes, or admits she was wrong, or suffers any kind of punishment. In the end her grandma says "just go easy on her lol she's a good girl" and then Steven is OK with that, and you get to read a note where she says "welp I guess I've got some thinking to do, later."

Is this supposed to be some sort of joke? She nearly killed everybody on the planet, twice, and she doesn't even have to apologize? Compare that to Archie/Maxie, who realize they fucked up, are incredibly upset and regretful for it, take sole responsibility for what they've done and offer as much help as they can to fix it, submit themselves to whatever punishment is deemed fitting and then reform to atone for what they've done.

Shit is just mind-boggling. Even moreso when it turns out that Zinnia was behind the Aqua/Magma stuff too.

>>32368265

Smug monologuer from no where who went from foe to friend out of nowhere.

she is a mary sue tho

>>32368720
>You nearly destroyed the world to get my attention?
>A fucking air horn or text message would have fucking worked.

>>32368321
She isn't a villain, is neutral, do whatever she wants

>>32368909
and Lillie isn't?

>>32368834
She wasn't wrong though, and the aqua and magma "behind the scenes" had a reason too

>>32368265
>>32368399

>>32368392
I feel like the only one that liked her personality. Everyone else is so busy sucking Steven's dick and she's just 'yeah, whatever, motherfucker'.
Tired of all these copy and pasted characters with the personality of cardboard. Zinnia's tendency to be an ass is refreshing.

And I just chalk her plan up to GF writing. It's nothing new.

>>32370974
>everyone else is so busy sucking the former champion's dick
gee whiz

>>32368265
I don't hate her but I find the lack of consistency on her caracter anoying, At first she looks like shes well documented and educated on what is going on and, and in the other she seems to be doing just random shit and when you battle her she just turn out feral out of the blue

>>32368411
I think ORAS would only have been worth it as a game if you could throw her off the sky pillar and she would never show up afterward if you did that.

>>32371001
or better yet, let it play out like the manga with her getting Fugged

>>32368265
She's batshit crazy and recklessly endangers the world to make a point she can't actually prove. Devon Corp has the means to quickly and safely destroy the meteor and she goes and sabotages it and claims it's all to save an alternate universe whose existence she cannot prove, she knocks you unconscious, she steals from people and when you awaken and capture Rayquaza she challenges you to a battle as the fucking meteor is hurtling towards earth ready to kill everyone ever instead of just letting you get to business first and battle second. She's horribly written, gratingly annoying, and the game constantly tries to convince you she's anything but a misguided, autistic shrieking dumbass.

She has great tits and an amazing battle theme though, so that about averages out.

>>32371222
Basically this.

Also the battle against her was a fucking joke.
>Mono-Dragon trainer right after you get the legendary Mega-Dragon

>>32371222
Trips confirm,Ziannafags BTFO.

>>32368613
Fucking lol.

No, the character being a jerk doesnt make her good.

If you want a good flawed character, there's Clair. She's an asshole, but her personality and actions make sense, and are well defined. And the game knows what she is.

Zinnia is the opposite of all these things

>>32368576
>She saved lives with her actions
???

>>32368265
Basically what people have already said. I could see where they were trying to go but she never really bothers to explain in detail, instead using faulty logic that no one has any way of knowing and then talking down to people instead of to them. Still hot as fuck though and still better than Lillie.

>>32368265
She was in the game for like 5 minutes how the fuck could possibly come to like her?

>>32370974
>Everyone else is so busy sucking Steven's dick

What, you've got a problem with that?

File: boingo.png (653KB, 544x566px) Image search: [Google]

653KB, 544x566px

>>32369495
>plans to awaken Godzilla and destroy the region to MAYBE get the attention of Fug
>not wrong
That is just one of the things she was wrong about too. The list goes on for a while.

>>32370974
>Everyone else is so busy sucking Steven's dick

Because he was the only one with a plan that would work.

Zinnias plan failed, by the way, only through the MC's interference did fug mega evolve.

>>32368753
She maked then know about primal reversion, they already knew about groudon and kyogre

>>32368265
le fetch quest girl

>>32370974
While I agree, I wouldn't say everyone else was sucking Steven's Dick. They had a perfectly good plan that had a flaw that they couldn't see.

>>32372261
In emerald rayquaza comes after groudon and kyogre appeared, she was trying that

File: Porygon2_(dream_world).png (9KB, 206x208px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 206x208px

>>32368265
Her reasoning was baseless and not convincing in an academic sense.

Literally "listen and believe" the Pokegirl.

Also fuck you faggots for getting the wrong idea about who Aster was to justify her shittiness.

>>32370974
>Everyone else is so busy sucking Steven's dick

Guess what, you broke and penniless piece of shit? People will listen to you when you have money and can fund shit that can potentially save lives. Scientists are going to listen to the man who can keep funding their research because he's effectively their boss. A 16-19 something in rags that probably smells like dragon poo isn't going to carry much clout for her illegal entry of a closed facility, theft of expensive and time consuming developed equipment and baseless preachings about how all that work in said equipment has no concept of sacrifice.

Maybe when you understand the real world, you'll get that.

>>32372482
>Also fuck you faggots for getting the wrong idea about who Aster was to justify her shittiness.

What was the right idea, then? We can only speculate.

>>32372502
https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/

>>32372470
Yes, after they're BOTH fighting. Rayquaza doesn't give a single shit otherwise. Even if Groudon killed everyone, Fug wouldn't give a fuck.
There's also the question of her source. It's more than likely she's doing this on no basis. Which is even worse.

>>32372526
He said Archie and Maxie the secret of primal regression at the same time for both to awake, we also mention at the beginning of the delta episode that you stopped groudon/kyogre before they could awake completely crushing her plans. And her source is the legends passed by her acestors by generations

>>32372538
She*, not we, mistake happened

File: Birth_Island.png (36KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 480x480px

Zinnia is an idiot. And the scientists overestimated the meteor's damage. The meteor would not have done any damage. Probably because no one knew about Deoxys' presence. Considering pic related, nothing bad would have happened.

Brendan/May likely just blew up Deoxys' sweet ride.

File: 01-07-15_pmli-milan_0025_low3.jpg (71KB, 745x559px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 745x559px

>>32368374
Agreed

>>32368753
It isn't explicitly stated but you are mostly right.

>>32368300
>Gorilla
>Uses Dragon types
Is she a GAD fan?

>>32372797
Deoxy's was in the meteor right? It makes sense it would make sure to have a softer landing.

Even if her alternate dimensions theory holds up, wouldn't the likelihood of it ending up in another universe RIGHT next to civilized world be unequivocally small?

>>32373321

Deoxys seemed hostile and possibly as dangerous as the meteor itself, given its high level

But then, Deoxys was never explained anyways.

>>32368492
I ship zinnia with the main character, the only explanation for brendan side with this loony is thst he was in love with her.

Ok she is not a mary sue. She can be everything but not a mary sue. Zinnia is completly flawed.

>>32374222
Its the first mega evolution, is canon now

>>32374988

deoxys? the first mega evolution?

>>32374909
It's not about her being flawed, it's about if other characters treat her as such. And nobody ever does.

>>32375004
It´s a theory about deoxys being born from the ultimate weapon, since the pokedex said it was born from a laser and It goes into space before striking back at the Earth, the stone in the chest than resemblance a mega stone without the dna simbol, he can change forms, he is the dna pokemon etc

>>32375103
deoxys also change forms from the meteorites wich is related to megastones

Not nearly enough foot fetish art.

>>32368265
She has stinky feet

>>32375103

Ah, so it's a fan theory? Sounds interesting.

>>32375102
But all the characters look down and despise zinnia, except the main character. She was not locked because she was not worthy and no ine gave a fuck ti her.The biggest mary sue of the franchise is lillie, not really zinnia.

>>32375304
>But all the characters look down and despise zinnia
No, outside Prof Cosmo and Steven (both positioned as being careless and wrong in their plan and ideas) everyone respects her or has no hard feelings towards her. When she beats Maxie and steals his Keystone, he calmy talks about how good she is and just gives you his Mega Stone.

>>32375343
>When she beats Maxie and steals his Keystone, he calmy talks about how good she is
No, anon, he talks about how strong she is, because she beat him. This is not the same as endorsing her ideals or approving of her as a person. Please take a step back and stop letting your hatred for this character blind you to the facts.

>>32375396
I only hated the characters after experiencing the game, so I'm not being blinded.

> he talks about how strong she is, because she beat him
And this is not the same as looking down on her or despising her. Please take a step back yadda yadda.

>>32375408
And much less the same as admiring and thinking she is right.

She's the most intriguing character to appear in Pokémon in a long, long while

>>32375421
But I never implied he did, or that ANYONE did actually

>>32373373
With how Multiverse theory works, there is an infinite number of universes both for and against Zinnia's point.

Even if it didn't teleport right next to another Hoenn, or even another pokemon world, Deoxys would have still gone for the closest earth-like planet he could find, and still caused trouble.

File: 1450995337607.png (189KB, 510x400px) Image search: [Google]

189KB, 510x400px

>>32372507
>What was the right idea, then? We can only speculate.

Everyone who thought Aster was her dead child in particular were objectively wrong.

Legitimate question.

Why are people in this thread calling Lillie a Mary Sue?
Like I can understand not liking Lillie as a character, but what on earth prompts people to give her that title?

>>32376909
I think it stems from the fact that the plot focuses on her and for a lot of portions, the player is just along for the ride

>>32376909
mostly because she is useless, super protected typical blonde damsel in distress, is annoying and helps nothing in the plot. she is not a badly written character, but she is no better than zinnia in much aspects

>>32376909

>>32376954 This, and also because Mary Sue is an overused term that has somewhat lost its meaning.

File: 1471429878948.png (639KB, 877x1378px) Image search: [Google]

639KB, 877x1378px

>>32371008
that would of been the best

File: 1483283675989.png (175KB, 348x514px) Image search: [Google]

175KB, 348x514px

I hate her because she was a bitch. She was so arrogant. I feel like if she talked to steven before helping team magma/aqua about ya know, the whole draconoids thing, I feel like he worked been more reasonable.

She ignores everyone, is overly cocky, gives no actual reasoning for what she's doing, and if it wasn't for you carrying a handy-dandy meteorite , she would have killed everyone.

The multiverse thing I don't mind. I love it; it connects all the past games so that everything can still be canon. But she's such a fucking bitch.

I wish fug stabbed her in the game as well.

>>32376076

So who was she instead?

>>32378633
Her nickname for Obama

>>32376909
It's easy.
They dislike the character, for one reason or another, and know that she gets the focus in plot, so calling her Mary Sue is an easy way to let their feelings be known. Because they associate the term Mary Sue with being badly written.

>>32376954
>she is useless
>helps nothing in the plot
I don't care about most of the things you listed, as they're non-issues, but these two are just wrong. The very first thing you see her doing is running away with Cosmog. After the protagonist, she does the most work in the story. Is this yet another comment about not battling = doing absolutely nothing and being useless?

>>32380196
>After the protagonist, she does the most work in the story
Like?

File: lorr.png (113KB, 750x640px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 750x640px

>>32378633
Her much more competent and successful predecessor.

>>32368300
>>32372979
GAD fans?

>>32368635
>gorilla arm
>dragon user

Is Zinnia (dare I say it) a fan of the GADs?

>>32381459
Changing the question, I'll ask you instead. At what point does she do something that isn't adding to her character or the story? Give a few examples. Because I think most of everything she does adds to them, which is too much to list. Just as an example, the first scene with the bridge manages to leads to you meeting Nebby, established a part of her character, and introduced Tapu Koko, all important to the overall plot. It even establishes part of the protagonist's personality, as he helps out for no reason.

So asking again. Name a few scenes of her that are useless and add nothing.

>>32381475
The Lorekeeper was suposse to be her dead child, fixed

>>32381500
I dont have to, I'm not the person who claimed she was useless and added nothing to the story. But I certainly wasnt the person claiming she did the most after the protagonist either. I find your claim more ludicrous than the one you were replying to though, so would much rather question that

>>32381500
>>32381567
also you're talking pretty snarkily for someone who ignored a request to back up your statement literally immediately after it was questioned

>>32381567
In that case, since you find it that ludicrous, can you elaborate on why? Do you have any other character you thinks adds more to the story? If so, how?

Remember, Lillie is the character who establishes you connection to Tapu Koko, Nebby, Lusamine and the entirety of Aether Foundation, even Ultra Beasts. She is the central driving point of the story and gets the most development, while the protagonist is the one driving that story and leading to that development.

>>32381596
Being snarky was not my intent. I just don't think it's worth my time to explain the entire plot for a random statement. There's the game for that. I will not back down, though, and if you think there is some problem with my statement, I'm willing to argue about it. Such as in this case, you're saying Lillie wasn't the one to add the second most to the story, so you must have another character in mind. I'm willing to argue how Lillie did more than whoever this character is, rather than compare her to EVERY character, which would take forever.

File: real_mei.png (2MB, 2000x2000px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2000x2000px

>>32381553
Lorekeeper is a title, a position. Much like being a Watcher for the Lantern Corps or one of the Judges in FFXII

Aster went missing or dead which left Zinnia to inherit those duties to fill a gap.

If you're actually playing mental gymnastics to preserve your "mourning mother" fantasy, I feel sorry for you and the kids of today.

This is slowly turning into a Lillie thread.

>>32381630
I was just pretending to be retard

>>32381475

thanks, interesting stuff!
i like to headcanon that aster is her mother or elder sister, hence why zinnia is so clingy.

>>32381628
She only does all those things by being connected to them herself, or being present when things happen relating to them. But not by her actions. Her only real action, as in, something she specifically does that actually pushes things forward, was the intro scene.

I dont have a specific character in mind, I dont think anyone stood out as adding a lot to the story, as the story was disjointed and so nobody had time to develop their part. The worst offenders to this being the heads of Team SKull. But that's another discussion.

Now, it's not that I dont think Lillie s important to the plot, because she is. She is the driving force of the plot. But this is where we diverge, because you think she's doing work, but for me, she just doesnt do anything. The plot involves either:

Going to find Lillie because she's lost

Going to do something with Lillie because she needs someone to follow her

Lillie following you to something but not actually doing anything when you're there.

Her Z-Powered thing later was an outfit change that signified development, but nothing changed except she was more confident when doing the above rather than constantly stepping on rakes like Sideshow Bob. Also she was assertive to her mother, I think. I'll give you that as well as I forget exactly what happened in Ultra Space

>>32381831
That is indeed where we diverge. The plot was about her ultimately getting strong enough to confront her mother, and those getting lost or her following you progressed it more towards that. The other thing needed to get to that point was Nebby. And she was the one taking care of and who did everything to evolve Nebby. That was moving the plot forward. Someone had to do that, and it was Lillie.

Even establishing connections between the protagonist and others is moving the plot forward. Lillie can't fight herself. She needed someone to take on Lusamine. The protagonist will end up confronting the antagonist. There needs to be a connection there. This time, that connection was a person, rather than the antagonist just telling their plan to the protagonist, the protagonist fighting to stay alive. The protagonist needs to be stronger to fight the antagonist. Lillie supported the protagonist, helping him get there in one way or another. All of that is moving the plot forward.

You said how it is not her action that is moving the plot forward, rather just her presence, and I honestly don't understand that. The plot moved with the choices she made, the actions she took. She doesn't fight. So she can't fight the plot forward. Other thing will have to do. And the other things she does are what is moving the plot forward. The plot cannot get from the beginnig to the end without her contribution.

If there is no other character I can directly compare the contribution to the plot with, there isn't much I can argue here, without having to just describe the plot of the game. My statement was that she adds the second most. This statement is just comparing her to others.

>>32368265
Shit character which Gamefreak didn't know whether to make her a protagonist or antagonist so she flip-flops through each so badly it's make the Pirates of the Carribean cast question her motives.

Not to mention that in the games, with the bullshit she pulled, she got away Scott free. At least the manga noticed and made her get Fug'd

Zinnia is basically the JonTron of Pokemon. Yeah, she was "right" but made herself look like a complete fucking idiot cause she couldn't debate nor prove her actions with evidence

>>32382398
This also means that Zinnia makes good video game review videos that are riddled with reaction quotes.

I am okay with this.

>>32368265
The single most infuriating detail is when she "steals" things. Look at Aqua Admin Matt, then back to her. Do you believe even for a second that Matt wouldn't fold her in fucking half if she tried to jack his shit?

>>32368265
I like her i just wish she

>had a varied pokemon team
Pure dragon is just generic and forgettable.
>she was in other media
I'd buy her full art tcg card. I'd appreciate her in the anime.

Her theme and appearance is 10/10. Right now she's just tucked away in a deep dark corner of the game ive never played

>>32368265
Neckbeards dislike her because she is the embodiment of the modern teenage girl

>Smart
>Strong
>Free thinking
>Sexually liberated
>Feminist

>>32383941
Nah. As bad as Zinnia is, she can at least hold a thought longer than 12 minutes.

>>32373373

I think the argument is that the meteor would have been in the same place in the other universe - e.g. hurtling towards earth

>>32376058
But "multiverse" has never been mentioned. Just another universe. There's nothing suggesting there's an infinite number of universes.

>>32383941
Only two of those things are true. Not of Zinnia, just your statement.

>>32384219
Well, I mean, suggesting that there's another universe inherently suggests that there is a multiverse.

Unless we're going to get into some DBS level shit with how the multiverse works.

>>32368265

Mary Sue

>>32384838
Not really, it doesn't. In Pokemon, different universes has been a thing ever since Palkia was created. For 10 years. There's been no evidence of multiverse. If there is a Pokemon in charge of creating and maintaining universes, it's more than likely that they aren't unlimited.

>>32386148
You're not following the rules, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!