Was she right /vp/ ?

No, I'm pretty sure that was N's philosophy.

>>32357722
N wanted to remove Pokemon from trainers, not that people should discarded them because of their usefulness.

>>32357719
i want lusameme to punish me for boxing my pokemon

>>32357719
She would have a point if it wasn't for the Poke Pelago.

>>32357719
Of course she's right about THAT

But she's still a crazy evil bitch and being right about some small detail doesnt make her look better at all

I remove it from my party, I don't freeze it in an ice rectangle so I can stare at it forever.

Daily reminder that mummy did absolutely nothing wrong

>>32357719
But boxed pokemon live in a literal island paradise eating beans and relaxing all the time and only occasionally doing mild gardening or spelunking (in exchange for beans).

>>32357773
But it's only the case in SM though

>>32357719
she does raise a valid point.

I don't think she's aware that poke pelago exists though.

>>32357781
Well that's the only game that she appears in.

>>32357813
Yeah but she's speaking about "any Pokemon trainer", not just Alola trainer. Plus I doubt every trainer in SM has access to Poke Pelago

poke pelago did'nt exist when she founded Aether. It was founded by her husband after he lost his memories.

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>>32357719
No. It isn't. A Trainer and their Pokemon share a mutually beneficial relationship. They both work towards something, putting in their own work achieve that. A Trainer/Pokemon relationship is, first and foremost, a professional one. If one party fails the other, if one is incompetent, the other has all the rights to leave. A Trainer is like Manager of a team, just even more important as he literally commands them. If he is dissatisfied or doesn't see the potential with any member of the team, he has the right to replace them. Feelings have nothing to do with this.

That is not the case with Lusamine. She took Pokemon and people in for her own good, and discarded them just like that. Cosmog didn't want to be caught. Null didn't want to be created. Lillie didn't ask to be born. They were all decisions Lusamine made. And just like that, she selfishly ignored and discarded them all on a whim. That is being irresponsible. She's not taking the responsibility of her actions only because she doesn't feel like it. This is nothing like a Trainer/Pokemon relationship. How is this even a question?

>>32357912
Good points. It should be noted that Pokemon willingly obey trainers and have been depicted as willingly appearing before them to be caught. One commonly forgotten fact is that Pokemon can ignore a trainer's orders if they don't see the trainer as qualified.

>>32357836
>>32357813
Has it ever been confirmed that your average trainers own more than 6 Pokemon? The PC box system is a convenient tool for players but I doubt that your local Ace Trainer has dozens of route 1 shitmons rotting away in the box. Most trainers seem to stick with a small team for as long as possible, and trade/release the ones they don't want.

>>32358017
I would think they do release them. Even in a Box, if the Box sends them to someplace else, like with Pelago, then keeping them requires money. The Pokemon need to be fed and taken care of. There is no point in keeping any extra Pokemon, unless they're strong or really rare.

>>32357912
>How is this even a question?
She's peoples waifu so they'll accept her evil actions

Again, this is the same sort of argument made in BW. Does anyone in the game world do this? We don't know. It hasn't even been described to us. The situation in BW is still worse because we KNOW most people don't even think of mistreating their pokemon. Here, it's something that has no explanation at all. Anything that talks about pokemon storage is breaking the fourth wall. Trading is also only spoken of in terms of the game mechanic. Most of the people doing trading in the game are using the game themselves. Does it exist? We don't know. Does she have an argument? We don't know.

Also, fuck you, Gamefreak, you are not allowed to tell us it's wrong but then throw it back at us WHEN THAT IS HOW YOU MADE THE GAME TO START WITH. I think I realize why no one has taken them down yet: they're too stupid to realize the logic flaws here.

>>32358062
>Anything that talks about pokemon storage is breaking the fourth wall.
Pokemon Storage system is one of the first few things to ever be explained in Pokemon. Bill created the system to make it easier for Trainers. Taking care of too many Pokemon is unreasonable and dangerous, so the system was created to allow better management. The only thing that was never fully explained was what are Boxes. And with SM, they even tackle that, making Pelago. There's no forth wall breaking here.

>Trading is also only spoken of in terms of the game mechanic.
What? Isn't trading just, well, trading? You trade Pokemon, and you're done. If the new Pokemon doesn't respect you because you didn't catch it, it might not listen, so you have to prove your worth sometimes. That's it.

>>32358062

Trading absolutely exists. There are trainers that trade with you.

>>32358062

>Also, fuck you, Gamefreak, you are not allowed to tell us it's wrong but then throw it back at us WHEN THAT IS HOW YOU MADE THE GAME TO START WITH

Are you autistic? You realize you can design a game and implement features and not necessarily agree that they're good/ethical choices, right?

>>32358106
If we were making GTA, yes. This? No! They might as well make an option to join Team whatever at that rate, and make killing pokemon real. You're supposed to be a "good" guy in this game. This is not a game where you can fuck the world and do whatever you want.

>>32357912
>Lillie didn't ask to be born.
Did any of us ask to be born? Yet we are here because of an selfish action of our parents.

>>32358126

Did you get triggered by BW's plot and N being against the whole basis of the Pokemon games?

>>32358131
And that is why those parents raise us. Because we're their responsibility. Those that don't aren't exactly seen as nice people.

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>>32358126
>Games for children quickly question his moral
>Teach kids that things aren't black or white and that it's normal to question things in general
>Somehow a bad thing

>>32358132
Everyone knows why that doesn't make sense. You're just trolling now.

>>32358138
I said nothing about what it is supposed to mean to you, I said that it makes no sense in universe.

>>32358149
Look, I get your point, you just aren't making any sense here. It wasn't a problem in BW, because BW was retarded, but you think mentioning Trainers and Boxes like this is a bit unfair, especially since they don't explain the Boxes. But it's not that much of a problem. As an anon said before, Boxes do get an explanation, so you aren't being painted as the bad guy, and this is just a mad women, who we KNOW is in the wrong, trying to justify her actions with false equivalence. There's nothing wrong here. You're just getting worked up over nothing.

>>32358149

>Everyone knows why that doesn't make sense
>Everyone knows


Mind explaining why? And how it's different from Lusamine's claims?

>>32358171
What we have is an explanation for Boxes IN ALOLA. It doesn't apply anywhere else. I'm also unclear on the matter if the Alola PC system was SUPPOSED to be used in this manner. There is certainly no word on any collaboration with Molayne.

>>32358193
Because it didn't make any sense? The whole premise that Pokemon, some of which even evolve by happiness, aren't happy with trainers is breaking everything established by the series up to that point? There was no question there. Team Plasma was in the wrong about literally everything. This isn't the same. We don't know about the Boxes, so Lusamine saying those who use Boxes are just as evil as her cannot be just proven to wrong.

>>32358193
I already said. Not many in the pokemon world even think about mistreating their pokemon. N is arguing something that doesn't really exist.

>>32358211
I guess that's true, but nothing says this doesn't apply to all Boxes either. Bill, the creator of Pokemon Storage system, was seen working on Teleporters not once, but twice. Once when he tries this with humans, the other time when he helps Celio with a Trading system. It wouldn't be farfetched to say Pokemon Storage system itself is just a Teleportation system, that just puts your Pokemon somewhere like Pelago. Again, it's just speculation, but we have an example of this happening now with Pelago. This won't be confirmed for every game unless they remake every game, but that's not happening any time soon.

>>32358233

There's also the anime in which Pokemon deposited to the PC get teleported to Oak's lab.

>but anime isn't canon!

Maybe, but there are aspects from the games that originated in the anime, so why couldn't this one?

>>32358266
The game and the anime are completely separate entities. One cannot be an explanation for the other.

>>32357734
That's my favorite part of this. Pelago was literally introduced to prove the main villain wrong.

>>32357719
Morality in Pokémon games is a shitty storytelling device considering gameplay isn't going to change from this revelation any time soon. I'd argue that was the only major failing of 5th gen- going out of its way to show that people have different world views and Pokémon are livid creatures with a will of their own and in the end it's business as usual.

Pokemon needs to just be up front about the fact that not all pocket monsters are created equal and dropping a long-time companion for something better is just the way of the world, instead of being pretentious up on its high horse and pretending the player is somehow different.

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>>32358293
Headcanon for Pelago is that more berries than what you harvest are produced, but some go to the planter/caretaker pokemon.
Also that Isle Aphun is mystery dungeon type shit.

Not much to think about the other two.

>>32357719
About you having a microdick? Yes of course

>>32357912
/thread

>>32357912
you fight the pokemons to catch them buddy, it isnt their choice, and then you make they fight. How is that a "mutually beneficial relationship"?

Pokemon is a very disingenuous series. It says things and it's world work one way but then the inner workings of the world go to the trash by game mechanics alone.

Look at breeding for example. Want a team to play competitive? Or for the Battle Tree? Well, you better be ready to spend hours playing eugenics and in-breeding and then throwing the "bad ones" into the trash and only keeping the "good ones" because those are the only ones deserving your love because they are the only ones who will be useful for what you wanna do.

How about "all Pokemon are equal if you love them enough! Use your favorites!". Factually wrong as well, what if my favorite is Ledian? I can't never use it in competitive and can barely use it on a in-game playthrough because of how trash it is in nearly every aspect.

>>32358400
It's canon that Pokemon actively look for trainers to be caught because they know that's the most sure way for them to grow stronger.

>>32358400
No, the Pokemon fight YOU. You just fight back.

>>32357719
She is always right. Do not question the Goddess.

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>>32357734
/thread
Mohn is based

>>32357912
This post fucking reeks of underage trying to sound smarter than he is. There's no difference here. A trainer ditching a Pokemon that no longer benefits him is the same thing. He can do it for any reason. There's nothing inherently mutual about it. If feelings have nothing to do with it then she did nothing wrong either.

>>32358433

That sure explains why some Pokemon run away from battle or try to escape from pokeballs.

>>32359053
Respectively, that's them not wanting to be captured and them not deeming you gud enough, N. AKA game mechanics.

I think those frozen pikachus would disagree, Lusamine

>>32357719
Most of the time they were HM slaves in previous titles. It's not my fault their stats suck dick. At least they're on an island going on adventures, making friends and eating beans, man.

At least I didn't freeze them to death.

>>32357719
No, she's not. I don't put a Pokémon I don't wanna use in my party to begin with.

>>32357734
This. She was one game too late for this argument. But now Pokemon aren't kept in digital stasis but apparently relax (or do slave labor) on some tropical islands.

It's the timing was so bad, because It would have been a decent argument in the correct setting.

>>32358293
>>32360026
I mean, they're still being abandoned. That part hasn't changed. We just know the conditions they're in now.

>>32358023
>keeping them requires money. The Pokemon need to be fed and taken care of
Do they though? Over the years I've kind of absorbed that the Pokemon world is some economically infallible paradise and that's how they can even afford to send their kids on crazy coming of age adventures. I always assumed if there wasn't some actual transaction of money, then the service was funded elsewhere. Like Bill's PC etc.

>>32358062
Actually, since you bring up Black and White, there are some researchers in the Plasma castle that talk about being able to hack into the general populace's Pokemon boxes and releasing them if they don't agree to release them at Plasma's demand. So this does imply people besides you use the box function, without breaking the fourth wall.

However there's still the issue that like 90% of the npcs you fight from every Pokemon game don't even have full parties, which unless they are part of some regulated system like gyms and leagues, heavily implies they just don't have more than the Pokemon that they have on them.

>>32360051
Also the fact that small children compete for money on a regular basis.

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>>32357719
arguably, yes

Her daughter's just plain delusional though.

>>32357767
Child abuse and letting other worldly monsters wreak havoc is definitely wrong

>>32357734
>she was literally one game too late to make this argument
>cucked by her own husband
The devs knew exactly what they were doing with this game. Wish they know what to do with a postgame.

>>32357719
To be fair there is pokepelago

>>32357734
>>32361197
What does the existence of Poke Pelago have to do with this? Does that mean they're not Boxed anymore? Because they are. You just know what it's like inside the box.

>>32357719
Legitimately a better argument than anything presented by N or Team Plasma in general.

Team Plasma is the worst evil team.

>>32358454
>lati@s, Regis etc

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>>32361216

Except for the fact that Poke Pelago exists as a physical location.

>>32361250
And? I'm still not seeing the point here. Does it being a "physical location" not make it the Box, where you put things you don't want only to never touch again?

>>32361262

In the end, it's no different than releasing them, is it?

>>32361281
Yes, it's not. You're just releasing them in a different place than where you caught them. And this is what Lusamine is referring to. You're discarding things you don't need. The Box being Pelago has NOTHING to do with this, so I don't know why everyone is constantly bringing it up.

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>>32357719
it triggered me a lot that this specific argument wasnt addressed more during the scene.

>>32361303
>>32361281
Because it isn't, you just retards

>>32361303
They're just idiots who lack the mental capacity to understand the situation. They think the "bad" part is that the Box is a bad place and you're putting them in there. Lusamine's point was that you're discarding them, doesn't matter where. Even if the Box is literal paradise, it doesn't refute her point. You're still just getting rid of any Pokemon you don't need like they're some THINGS.

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>>32357719
>literally the daddyofive of pokemon