>Smogcucks will defend this

>Greninja S
>Greninja-Ash A+
>Greninja A+
What did they mean by this

>>32279156
>Regular Jobfrog is in 2 different ranks
I am confused

>>32279164
Torrent Focus Sash Water Shuriken Greninja is now meta.

>Celesteela is the only stall mon on the list
Why does everyone complain about stall again?

>>32279183
Celesteela isn't even used on stall.

>>32279183
Because it's rare enough most people don't prepare for it while teambuilding, so when they do encounter it they get dinkled on.

That, and it's just a very unpleasant playstyle to play against. Even if you have the means to beat it, it takes fucking forever to whittle down to nothing.

>>32279183
>using Celestalla
I mean yeah keep Leech seed but otherwise it's usually Flamethrower, EQ, Heavy Slam.

Is Celesteela the best UB? Phero is good but it isn't as versatile in roles as Celesteela.

>>32279214
Celesteela is too easily killed and lacks reliable recovery, it's not as good as Phero which, while it doesn't have a lot of role diversity, is extremely oppressive and mostly just steamrolls the opposing team if they're unscarfed.

>>32279171
For what fucking purpose?

>>32279195
But should be. It's like people will only use formulas made for them. Sub, seed, protect/automize, heavy slam can really be plugged into a lot of stall cores. Not to mention beast boosting the defense of your choice(previously prepared) can make Celesteela a great wall for stall

>>32279232
>Taking it seriously

>>32279240
Torrented stab multi striking priority

>>32279240
>Trappable
>No reliable recovery
>No hazards/removal
>Weak to common types

It's just not an optimal stallmon. Skarmory does it better.

>>32279240
Celesteela has no recovery outside of seeds so it can be pressured heavily and no utility moves whatsoever.
No spikes, rocks, defog etc. Celesteela would be a wasted team slot on a stall team.

>>32279240

Celes is a great wall for balance/bulky offense, Skarm is the infnitely better steel on stall because of spikes, reliable recovery, access to Counter, shit even phazing whereas Celes brings nothing particularly useful and gets exploited by stuff like Meta, SD Lando, and Zygarde.

Honestly once Greninjas and Gross go we'll have a pretty nice meta going on. Mawile will probably rise up again and Lele will be a machine, but we'll just have to see.

>>32279231
No I mean it can be useful in any format (singles, doubles, special), not the sets it can run.

>>32279183
Because /vp/ is full of retards who don't know anything about competitive.
>waah stall
>waah stealth rocks
>waah what do you mean banning stealth rocks is good for stall

>>32279156
What's with all the frogs?

>>32279164
Protean can deal with Pex, Fini, and Growth better.

>>32279240
Skarm is much better on Stall. Reliable recovery, Defog, Hazards, thicc defense, Sturdy. It has what Stall actually needs, and complements classic Stall Pink Blobs much better.

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So, what makes Ash-Greninja not S tier?
I mean, Fini can't honestly deal with Hydro forever (even more so in the frucking rain), Dark Pulse specs spam will make a dent on lots of thing too.
So honestly what stop it? it's one of the reason why protean is S tier

>>32279317
medicham is going to shit in everyone's cereal

>terrain boosted thunder punch
>terrain boosted zen headbutt

imagine this thing on the sticky webs offense team people are spamming now

>>32279898
>Psychic Terrain M-Cham
>No double prio, now Cham actually uses it's 100 Speed
Shit would be pretty good on Webs, but once people go back to running more removal and Birds to counter Webs, I can't see that working.

>>32279259
>Trappable
Shadow tag is banned.

>>32279853
Protean Greninja is more used than Ash-Greninja because everyone is prepared to counter Ashninja now
Ash's Greninja is so good that make its Protean counter part be more used

>>32279941
>I don't know what Magnet Pull is

>>32279853
Tangrowth has gotten really popular lately which stops it from transforming if it doesn't carry ice beam, Keldeo revenge kills it easily

>>32279978
>implying celesteela gives a shit about magnezone when it has fire blast and earthquake

>>32279969
But protean is not actually more used. it's actually the other way.

> | 5 | Greninja-Ash | 19.61904% | 319296 | 14.973% | 237482 | 15.000% |

it's literally in the top 5 usage.

> | 12 | Greninja | 11.75566% | 156852 | 7.355% | 115525 | 7.297% |

>>32279978
Skarm gets Magnet Trapped much worse, Zone can come in on it at pretty much anytime, with any set from either of them except Shed Shell Skarm. Zone at least has to look out for certain spreads from Celesteela because it can actually get outsped, and switching into 252 Z-Fire Blast kills it unless it's AV, and that shit's still a roll from full.

>>32279898
stopping falling for the smogon overhyping

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>Genies are still in OU

>>32280250
Only a single genie remains as part of healthy meta. His brothers are disgraced.

>>32279156
>legendaries, tapus, UBs, megas and smogonfrog

I fucking hate Gen 7 meta

>>32280278
>UBs
this makes it really obvious you don't know what you're taking about.

>>32280278
>legendaries, tapus

THEY ARE THE SAME

>>32279156
I've used less than half of these. How do I into Zygarde? Where's the part where I have a moveset without rest talk

>>32280308
Give it choice band and click thousand arrows until everything not named tangrowth dies

>>32280250
Can we stop "le cancer genies" meme already? Landorus-I is Uber, Landorus-T is OU and the rest is all relegated to lower tier. If there's a group of legendaries that is cancer, are the Tapus

>>32279156
Don't like it? Don't play by Smogon's rules

Complaining about it but playing by their rules makes you a fucking retard

>>32280308
sub coil

>>32280258
Thundurus is fucking uu now?

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>>32280329
>Tapus are still OU

>>32280329
the tapus are cool, had a role in the story and history and lore behind them, plus they have unique individual designs whilst maintaining a similar Hawain deity-esque look about them

the genies are fucking disgusting messes with these ugly deformed faces, great stats but they are just such disgusting pokemon, especially since Lando-T still defines the OU metagame. Irregardless of m-muh viability rankings, he's used on 30-40% of ALL OU teams, it's fucking ridiculous how overcentralizing that disgusting fucking mon is

>>32280336
Thundurus is BL, as is therian form
Tornadus is BL2, torn-t is BL

>>32280336
He isn't UU, but his usage is comparatively low now (BL) and he doesn't have the balancing effect that Lando does that they formerly had as "healthy meta."
As such, the only member who has survived the powercreep is Lando.

how strong would it be a protean ash-greninja with a z celebrate set?

>>32280398
AG.

>+1 4 Atk Protean Greninja-Ash Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 404-476 (117.7 - 138.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>32280329
Tapus don't look like shit, so they mostly get a free pass.

>>32280398
>>32280596

Might as well give it specs since you don't care about what's possible.

>>32280639
>specs
>Gunk Shot

>>32280288
Celesteela is right fucking there you cum gurgling piece of shit.

>>32282577
>s

>>32282577
>UBs
>s
>only one is relevant

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>>32279156
Post YFW celesteela gets synthesis via tutors next game

>>32279898
I know it's not OU, but this thing is retarded in Monotype right now. It turned Fighting from one of the worst types to one of the more viable ones. It also made Psychic vs Poison tip in Psychic's favor (Because it actually had a hard time beating Muk-A/Tox/Mega Venu core