ITT: Mistakes

OP is a mistake.

>>32233613
ITT: OP can't counter Toxapex

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>>32233634
>healing 1/3 of your hp on a switch out is fair and balanced

>>32233651
>>32233634

the only unfair thing about toxapex is the fact that it gets a gorillion healing options when most defensive pokemon have jack shit.

>>32233634
I'v always hated Regenerator since it was introduced. Especially with U-turn. U-turn and Regenerator make the game unsatisfying, so much so that Gen 1 randbats are significantly more fun than Gen 5 and Gen 7 now (these 2 had it the worst).

Before these 2 things, you were completely rewarded for Predictions and Double Switches. Now when you switch into a U-Turner, you get damaged for outsmarting your opponent or your move gets wasted on a slow U-Turner. Not to mention that Volt Turn cores can make breaking one luck based on certain occasions.

With Regen, you know have to deal with mors of an annoying wall after they come back, have to deal with more Life Orb boost HJKs, or even more U-Turning bullshit.

>>32234183
this is the most autistic post I have seen all day

>>32234183

Why double switch on something that could U-Turn?

I agree with you though. Regenerator in conjunction with Life Orb or Assault Vest is annoying.

With Life Orb, it basically negates the damage loss, and with Assault Vest, you get a substitute for Leftovers recovery as well as the boost in defense.

>>32234183

t. got raped by Mienshao

>>32233651

There are bigger balance problems with the game than this. Stop crying and git gud.

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>>32233613
That sounds like a lot on paper, but take into account that you can barely switch in anymore without taking damage from Covert Cobblestones, Twenty six layers of spikes, and getting poisoned. Plus you have to deal with whatever your opponent chose to do on that turn.
Regenerator really isn't that much, even on physical walls like non-mega-Slowbro and Toxapex. Ho-Oh is really the only thing that can abuse it in tandem with Roost and U-Turn, and it's banned to Ubers in Smogon.

>>32233682
What if there was a bulky water with regenerator and a recovery move and it also had access to thunder wave?

>>32234448
That's a wonderful idea! It'll be a staple of all stall teams!

>>32233651
It is fair because the pokemon you do switch in is going to get hurt 9 times out of 10.

>>32234372
Most sensible post here

Take a you

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>>32234448

>>32234448
Mega Lanturn when, it could get boosted bulk and pivot on Volt Switches

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>>32233613
>GameFreak refuse to give recovery moves to mons that need them
> Being surprised that Regen mons are so popular

>>32234372

This is a retarded post, delete it.

>>32234932
My name Jeff

>>32233613
>>32233651
Let's go through every fully evolved Regenerator user and then see how broken it is.

>Slowbro
Regenerator in conjunction with its typing makes it good, but its stats ensure it's certainly not busted. It still gets 2HKOd by either strong special STAB, or just coverage. Without Regen, Slowbro is just bad. Also, it already has reliable recover in Slack Off
>Slowking
Same as Bro, but swap special and physical. In a world with Knock Off, Regenerator is all that keeps it relevant.
>Corsola
Moving on
>Ho-Oh
Regenerator stops its typing absolutely it over. Regenerator makes it a big threat, but that's par for the course in Ubers. Also has roost
>Tangrowth
Regenerator is the only real reason to use this, and it's still only good because of the threats in OU atm (Greninja and Megagross). Once you work out whether it's AV or physically defensive (which you can usually do from team preview/scouting for Rocky Helmet), a strong attacker can 2HKO from full, mitigating Regenerator. Also has Synthesis
>Audino
Arguably better than its Mega, but still trash.
>Reuniclus
Usually doesn't run Regenerator anyway. Because Regenerator isn't broken Also has recover.
>Amoongus
Probably the second worst offender on this list. On its own, what makes it annoying is its ability to Spore and then get passive healing from switching. I'd say the real culprit is Spore on something with 114 base HP. Also has Synthesis
>Alomomola
This thing is really good, but again, not broken on its own. Its real strength is being able to heal itself while still wish-passing to other pokes. It can be a pain, but eats shit from both Toxic and anything with strong special moves.
>Mienshao
Regenerator isn't as good as Reckless on this. It still dies to a light breeze, and healing from Regenerator is rarely going to prevent a KO.

(1/2)

>>32235678
>Tornadus-T
This thing was broken in gen 5, and Regen was a part of that. The other parts were 121 speed, coverage to choose its counters and no-miss Hurricanes. Since then, weather has been nerfed and speed has continued to creep. The popularity of Rocky Helmet and Dastardly Dolomite makes U-Turning for recovery much easier to handle, especially with LO damage. The creep is too strong for Torn, and even with Regen, it can't keep up.
>Toxapex
This thing is the worst on this list. It does help keep some of the stuff in OU in check, but that is in large part because of its stats, not its ability:
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 121-142 (34.3 - 40.3%)
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 109-129 (35.8 - 42.4%)

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 110-133 (31.2 - 37.7%)
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 97-114 (31.9 - 37.5%)

If Ferrothorn had access to both recovery and regenerator, I would wager the majority of teams would still run Iron Barbs (at least, when its on a team without other Regenerators) because chip damage is so crucial in this metagame. Back to Tox though: all it can do is Haze, set T. Spikes, or spam Scald and recover. On its own it can be used to shut down some sweepers, but is easily manageable with good teambuilding. Which brings me to the real issue:

>Regenerator cores
This is where it's becomes a problem.
I do disagree with >>32233651 when it's just about one mon, but on teams that can switch between two mons to heal 1/3 every turn it is a bit too much. Every stall team in OU/UU runs at least 2 regen mons because it's so good.

Personally, I think the only change Regenerator needs is so you are only healed if the Pokemon you switch into does not have the regenerator ability.
This fixes Regen on stall while leaving it as is for most teams.

>>32235690

Tornadus isn't a victim of power creep. Its problems are that it's outsped by Koko and Greninja, and Hurricane's low Accuracy (Focus Blast too kinda). It still does everything it used to just as well, it's just not as reliable as it could be.

Ferrothorn would use Iron Barbs over Regenerator? No way. The chip damage is just a nice bonus, Ferrothorn loses because it can't stay healthy. Leech Seed + Protect is good, but Regen could potentially get it banned. It'd be insane.

I once won a game using a Regen core. I had Tangrowth and Toxapex on a balance team, with 1 Spike and rocks on my side. My opponent's last mon was a Taunt + Nature's Madness Fini vs my two mons. Tox was healthy, Tang was low and poisoned, I think. I won by switching back and forth to heal while Fini spammed Scald. Tangrowth was down to 2% at one point, but hazards and Scald didn't do enough damage.

I don't think Regen is a problem. Stall is the problem, as always.

>>32235690
If Ferro had regenerator, I wager most people would run that and Rocky helmet. It would really appreciate a way to recover outside of leech seed.

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>hey bulky water types aren't bullshit enough
>lets make them regen on the switch
Regenerator sounds like an ability for grass types anyway wtf

>>32236012

> Bulky Water/Poison type
> Actually gets Recover
> Regenerator too because why the fuck not

I love that GameFreak dared to make Toxapex, and I love that it's so good.

>>32236033
If sweepers and wallbreakers get powercreeped to hell and back, it's only fair walls should get better walls as well.

>>32235678
>>32235690
These are really good posts. Thank you.

>>32236045
True. It's a tough balance, too many good defensive mons and offense suffers. Too few, and teambuilding is affected, the meta becomes more matchup-based without strong blanket checks.

I feel like there need to be more Tangrowths and Landorus-Ts. GameFreak refuse to give recovery moves to mons that need them - probably because VGC needs to be quick, offensive, and fast-paced.

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>>32236075

>>32233613
It should be 1/2 of its maximum hp

>>32235993
>Tornadus isn't a victim of power creep
>Immediately lists two fast and strong pokemon introduced in later gens as his problems
Wew

>>32237643

> Tapu Koko
> Pheromosa

Oh look, Protean Greninja is a victim of power creep too!

>>32234361
Who in the right mind would complain about getting raped by a Mienshao?

>>32237643
he means the new mons are just direct threats to him, he's not outclassed by anything at his niche

>>32238216
terrible example, greninja is S rank OU

>>32235690
>Every stall team in OU/UU runs at least 2 regen mons because it's so good.
Most stall teams in OU only have Toxapex with regenarator.

>>32238460
this

the staple is sableye, skarm, chansey, an unaware mon, toxapex and a trapper/stallbreaker
regenerator cores are more common on balance teams since they have such good synergy without any support

>>32233613
It is one of those abilties that is so good it makes shitty mons really good.

>>32235678
>>32235690
To much autism

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>>32238592
>facts = autism

>>32238615
Any post with more than 10 words is considered autism.

>>32233613

What if regenerator was only 1/4th and it only regained health after switching in and taking entry hazard damage making it so that they could die before regaining health?

>>32235993
>>32235994
That's why I said regenerator and recovery. If it was just regen, it would take that every time. Rocky helmet/Iron barbs would gain a huge surge in popularity with reliable recovery, whereas regenerator would be more common with leech seed sets without recover/whatever move it gets in this theorymon, where it can still get chip.

>Tornadus
I was using creep to refer to speed and power. And you can't say that it does everything just as well while at the same time saying its not as reliable. And the defensive set does suffer from power creep, with the terrains it just can't take hits as well as it could in gen 6.

>>32238435
What is that niche? Torn-T wasn't even OU until gren was banned at the start of ORAS, and it's certainly worse in this meta than XY.

>>32238487
You're right, I was thinking of more UU and XY OU. However, that team does lose to a bunch of Lele sets (Calm Mind/Z-Focus Blast, Taunt/HP Fire or Specs when its well played). Some OU stall is moving to Tangrowth over Toxapex and Clear Smog Amoonguss over the unaware. Especially now that Phero is on the way out, Toxapex is less necessary.

>>32238592
I don't disagree

>>32236075
thanks anon

>>32240749
RIP Ho-Oh and Tornadus. Not a bad idea, it would be fantastic for in-game, but doesn't really matter against stall too much, M-Sableye and Skarmory really limit hazard stacking.