The Pheromosa suspect test started today, how goes the climb?

I don't really have any problem with her but Smogon will ban her since she shits on their precious offense.

>>32190341

Are you retarded

>>32190349
Are you? She basically centralizes offense entirely around her along with Lele.

>>32190320
I think she resticts teambuilding too much.
She'd be fine if priority attacks could consistently get her, but with priority-preventing terrain being a thing it's just too much.

You can't revenge kill her at all because of her speed and priority-preventing terrain.

>>32190358
So Lele is the problem?

>>32190357

It's absolutely broken. It shits on every single play style, including offence. It can run both physical and special sets well, as well as getting access to quiver dance. And you can't even wall it because sets like z hyper beam or z giga impact shit on checks such as toxapex

>>32190320
I hope she gets booted, since:
1) She's too overcentrailizng
2) I want to see that sweet, sweet domino effect happen

>>32190320
It started a few days ago actually.

I think Mega Metagross should have been suspected before it since M-Meta is far more constraining of teambuilding diversity of thought. But Pheromosa's time would have eventually come even though I think this isn't the appropriate time, so I will vote ban.

Mega Metagross, Pheromosa, Greninja, Tapu Lele, and Mega Mawile are the top threats in the tier at the moment. Hoopa-U will probably be dusted off more when they leave and pose a threat but for now it's fine. I think something should be done about Chansey and Blissey to create a blow for stall, but I doubt they'll actually respond favorably to that.

>>32190363
People have been saying this since day one, I don't know why anyone's surprised.

>>32190366
>Z Hyper beam
Needs a very high roll to nail Toxapex and it means Clefable can fuck it back.
>Z-Giga Impact
252 Atk Pheromosa Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Toxapex: 123-145 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

>>32190390

No, it means after it switches in on the chip damage as well as the move it gets hit by it is most certainly getting sacced on switch in. And the only team that will run both Toxa AND clef will be a stall team which is now heavily crippled as it lost its hazer/toxic spikes spread/regencore

I'm smarter and have a bigger dick than all of you.

>>32190381
m-meta hasnt change since last gen where it was fine. it isnt going to get suspected again, ever.

>>32190320
I disagree with the ban but unlike a month ago, I don't have the time to bother with this.
I guess I'll just use it on cart play instead, ah well.

>>32190410
>Chip damage
That means Mosa didn't get a QD before Toxapex switched in, meaning the Z move will deal even less damage.
Again Mosa only fucks with offense and frailer versions of balance

>>32190415
but you don't have a bigger dick than Pheromosa

>>32190381
Phero > Megagross > Greniggers > Megamaw > Lele will probably be the order of suspects unless they through a curveball like with Dugtrio.

>>32190431
You either have zero idea what you're talking about but felt the need to post or trolling.

I'll give you a hint: Terrain.

>>32190443
lele should've come before anyone else as she restricts teambuilding more than anything else

hope you have a fast scarfer that can ohko her if you don't like getting 6-0'd

>>32190433

You're retarded bro. If it uses the z crystal it still gets its attack next turn so even if it is a roll it's most certainly dead

"B-but muh clefable kill"

Same reasons above. Your stall is broken

>>32190431
>m-meta hasnt change

The adjusted mechanic for megas lets it hit 110 speed right away.

>>32190498
/dt Regenerator

>>32190507
>Better let the next Mon switch in and die too

Kekking at you right now

>>32190513
Yes that Quiver Dance Pheromosa that has a 18% chance of breaking Toxapex with a +1 Z move is going to break Unaware Clefable one the next turn after blowing its Z move away. Stop posting.

>hyper beam is finally viable

>>32190540

Yes, it will do 50% to the clefable, which it will then Revenge kill. But at that point you've got a Toxa at under 50% or just ko'd and a clefable at half hp with no wish set up to protect with to regen. The entire team is heavily crippled and this is because of one mon that is supposed to be checked by this playstyle.

You get the mon ko'd eventually but the damage is done and it's not a counter or a check to it.

You can stop posting now buddy :)

>>32190571
You do remember that Pheromosa has to recharge on the turn it uses Hyper Beam right? And that you cannot switch it out. Pheromosa uses Hyper Beam on Clef on the Switch and Clef uses Wish and then protects again while you're forced to either switch out or continue spamming Hyper Beam like an idiot. And with the right predictions Toxapex can get back to full health with Regenerator alone. This barely does anything to stall.

>>32190390
haha yea lets just run toxipex on every team to counter this thing then

>>32190620
>Z-Hyper Beam

>>>>>Recharge

You cant be this retarded right
Breakneck Blitz doesnt have a recharge turn dumbfuck

>>32190663
Which is what most balance and stall teams do.

>>32190620
Hyper Beam is used for the Z-move, regular Hyper Beam barely gets used at all.
There's no recharge on Breakneck Blitz coming from Hyper Beam.

>>32190341
>glass cannon gets suspected
blulululu it shits on smogon's precious Hyper Offense!!!

>set up sweeper gets suspected
wahhhh it shits on smogon's precious stall!

You are this retarded

>>32190671
OK we're clearly not thinking the same scenario.
>Person sends out Phero
>Phero QDs
>Opp sends Toxapex
>Phero uses Z-Hyper beam
>Tox either lives or dies (18% chance to die)
>If it lives it switches out to Clef regaining 30% of its health due to Regenerator
>Clef goes in
>If Phero doesn't use Hyper Beam that same turn then it deals negligible damage to Clef.
>Clef can use Wish and Protect to either heal itself or Toxapex

Your meme set loses to stall, plain and simple.

>>32190729
Pheromosa used poison jab!
Its supper effective on clefable!

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>>32190790
That's why Toxapex goes first to test the waters and see if it's physical or special.
And if mixed then.
>0 Atk Pheromosa Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 134-158 (34 - 40.1%) -- 35% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

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haha yeah this Pokemon isn't broken.
see? if i run these two specific pokemon with these sets, it cant kill them! easy game!

AV Buzzwole takes on any version of pheromosa, well maybe not hp flying

>>32190433
Toxapex doesn't counter QD Pheromosa. Toxapex is too weak to deal enough damage to pressure Pheromosa out with scald without the boosts. Pheromosa will just get one or 2 QDs up while Toxapex struggles to do enough damage. Then Pheromosa hits Toxapex with a Z-Focus Blast+at least 2 Bug Buzzes (which requires really low rolls)

+1 224+ SpA Pheromosa All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex: 189-222 (62.1 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

+2 224+ SpA Pheromosa All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex: 251-296 (82.5 - 97.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 224+ SpA Pheromosa Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex: 89-105 (29.2 - 34.5%) -- 7.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. +1 0 HP / 32 SpD Pheromosa: 69-82 (24.3 - 28.9%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO

0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. +2 0 HP / 32 SpD Pheromosa: 52-63 (18.3 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO

With QD, Toxapex basically becomes set up bait for Pheromosa or a free Beast Boost depending on Tox's health.

>>32190863
>What is Haze

>>32190878
Nobody runs haze, dumbass.

>>32190860
Problem is Buzzwole is hot garbage, though

>>32190878
>Spamming Haze against something you can barely damage and does a ton to you

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>>32190320
>TFW finally decide to start laddering
>Doing pretty well
>Immediately Phero suspect, lole time 4 reset

FUCK this gay earth.

>>32190895
naw nigga, it also takes on greninja

>>32190852
nigga zard x is only countered by lando and revenge killed by scarfchomp or shit like scarf noivern and nobody complains

>>32190927
Don't forget fur coat Persian

>>32190888
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-02/moveset/gen7ou-1825.txt
>Haze 75.973%

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-02/moveset/gen7ou-1695.txt
> Haze 69.715%

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-02/moveset/gen7ou-1500.txt
>Haze 50.314%

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-02/moveset/gen7ou-0.txt
>Haze 41.434%

Funny the lower you go in elo the less you see Haze.

>>32190888
t. sub 1100

What do YOU run on Toxapex? Curious

>>32190896
A ton of damage with WHAT, exactly? All the top usage moves on Phero hit weak on Toxapex. Even if it runs HP Electric, haze will still stop it in its tracks until +4, at which point it OHKOs Toxapex without SR. But at that point, you deserve to lose.

>>32190320
>sub-570 BST
Not even remotely broken.

>>32190927
>nigga zard x is only countered by lando
everybody runs lando as a glue anyway. They can still build a team.
with Tox/Clef core, you shoot yourself in the foot.

>>32190949
Scald
Sludge Bomb
Toxic
Recover

>>32190959
>Minmaxed to the point of basically being Deoxys

150
30
150
30
150
5

515 BST with Regenerator and can use Eviolite, but no, not broken at all because sub 600 BST. :^)

>>32190994
>sludge bomb
are you fucking braindead

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>>32190994
>Sludge bomb

HOLY SHIT I WAS RIGHT
DO YOU RUN MERCILESS TOO

>>32191011
>running regenerator
fuck off with your shitty meme ability

>>32191039
Enjoy doing 40% to a 0 def phero :^)

0 SpA Toxapex Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Pheromosa: 117-138 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after poison damage

Holy shit what a bad way to run Toxapex
What is your elo?

>>32190320
It is broken along with lando, duggy, metagross, and lele.

>>32191110
I don't play fanfic metas, your imaginary internet points mean nothing to me

>>32191122
So sub-1200?

>>32191135
I don't have an elo, learn how to fucking read

I don't play OU lol
it's cancer

>>32191122
>comes to thread discussing fanfic meta
>doesn't even play it
Epic shitpost, retard.

Why is /vp/ filled with autists who fall for every single shitty bait while acting super smug?

>>32191146
I meant before Smogon made your girlfriend beak up with you.

>>32191122
Why are you in a thread about this "fanfiction meta" if you don't play it and it means nothing to you?

In any case, Regenerator is the better ability on Toxapex in every case. 3v3s, 6v6, doubles, singles, smogon, battle spot, VGC, no rules...you're bad no matter where you're playing.

>>32191166
>if I don't agree with something it's bait
you are what's wrong with this imageboard

>>32191179
yeah m8 because >>32190994 wasn't totally fucking with you right?

>>32191183
>you are only allowed to use toxapex for stall
what a waste of a great pokemon

>>32191192
Offensive Toxapex is wasting a great pokemon.

>>32191327
>stop playing the way you want to play!

>>32190320
This thread needs a bingo card holy shit

>>32192729
I'm hoping most of it is ironic by now

>>32192765
>anything that hurts my feefees isn't real
this is a smogonshitter at peak performance

>>32190381
>I think something should be done about Chansey and Blissey to create a blow for stall, but I doubt they'll actually respond favorably to that.
Chansey is too passive to be centralizing, and is run on far too few teams to have a huge impact outside of stall. And Blissey is just a fucking joke, why would you ever use it?

>>32190320
It's not Gen 6 Mega Mom/Mega Luke busted, but it's broken and unhealthy enough to the point where it needs to go. If offense has to run Toxapex just for this thing, that's a problem

>>32191343
You can play how you want, but offensive Toxapex is objectively garbage. You'd be better off running offensive Fini, at least that can get Calm mind and taunt. If you're running Toxapex, you run it for stall

>>32190320
Pheromosa is an offensive nightmare on most teams and against many threats but plenty of others can shut it down and one missed hi jump kick fucks it more than anything else with the move. I do not think it should be banned but most people are more retarded than I am so bug waifu probably will be banned soon.

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I would have enjoyed more if those retards suspected Lele , M-Sableye and M-Metagross (and possibly Ash-Greninja, dunno about protean) earlier AND THEN AND ONLY THEN, the Pheromosa suspect, to see if she's actually a problem.

>>32190320
Currently 60% in favour of the ban. Guess I won't be play Smogon anytime soon.

>>32193496
Same here.

>>32190320
My only opinion isn't simulator-based.

I think it's classic Game Freak incompetence that Pheremosa and Celesteela basically shit over everything, and meanwhile Buzzwole and Kartana are... decent enough.

>>32190927
>What is Quagsire
>What is Slowbro-mega
>Who is Heatran

>>32193958
>who is heatran
Why would you say "what", like you did for the other two?

>>32193988
Wouldn't*

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>M-MUH METAGROSS IS WORSE
>PLS DON'T BAN MY UNPREDICTABLE MINMAX BUX

disgusting desu.

Phero doesn't need lele support to wreck your team, priority be damned. It's much easier to build a solid team that will shut down lele than it is to shut down phero. A set up phero can sweep your entire team while lele can only go really fast.

Once it and froggo go, then we can talk about metagross. But to be frank a LOT of team variety is lost because of phero, lele, and froggo, all of which are bigger threats than metagross. Your team has to give SOMEWHERE and it's easier to check the first 3 and have a less reliable check for gross than vice versa

>>32193815
Kartana is pretty good, although Celesteela is better most of the time. Buzzwole is unfortunately the most outclassed though, even Golisopod had higher usage in VGC (but obviously not on smogon). Super easy to vacuum wave Kartana and instantly kill it though, although the same can be said for phero and swole.

does anyone have the most recent "OU the team" image?

>>32193034
A Pokemon doesn't necessarily have to be centralizing to be banworthy. Look at how Lando-I was banned. It's just a matter of acknowledging the effect of its presence and the effort of dealing with it.

This is even especially apparent with stall's success, since teambuilding typically prioritizes dealing with offensive threats over stallbreaking considerations.

Seismic Toss and Toxic are all they need to not be passive, since the combination can reduce the number of mons that deem it passive to Steels/Poisons with recovery and Magic Guard/Bounce mons.

Blissey is a problem because it's clear as day to see that's the go-to if Chansey goes, and it satisfies the same roles. That diminishes the effectiveness of a Chansey ban. People are even already running Blissey on stall because Shed Shell lets it have a 1 up over Chansey in being able to escape Dugtrio.

>>32195408
The thing is though, Chansey and Blissey have enough flaws, and can be stopped and countered easily enough to the point where unless you go out of your way to teambuild like shit, you're going to have some kind of answer to them by default. It's the same reason Landorus-T isn't broken. If you build any sort of decent team, without even thinking, you're going to have a way of beating it

Yes this is harder to do with Chansey/Blissey, but there's a few pokemon that can use it as set up fodder, and the best pokemon in the game right now (Lele with specs Psyshock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 429-505 (66.8 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and stuff like Mega Meta shit on it

>>32190431
Mega Metagross is Adamant Mega Mawile, except it also has base 110 speed and is immune to priority
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian in Psychic Terrain: 148-175 (38.7 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 148-175 (38.7 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

>>32193958
>What is Quagsire
garbage
>What is Slowbro-mega
garbage
>Who is Heatran
earthquake bait

>>32194029
how do you shut down lele?

>>32197086
even has bait in the post

>>32190905
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Buzzwole: 337-397 (80.6 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

please dont post again

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Buzzwole: 221-265 (52.8 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>>32197103
Stuff like Mega Meta can come in for practically free on anything but specs HP Fire/FB

>>32196897
Having flaws doesn't mitigate how successful they are in their roles. It's like saying Blaziken wasn't banworthy last gen because it had a glaring flaw in super effective priority, e.g. Azu, M-Pinsir, Talon.

Defensively, Chansey and Blissey go overboard in the special area, since no special hit that hits on the special side can break them, and special setup is either insignificant (e.g. Volcarona against Toxic) or can be addressed by another mon on the team (e.g. QD Pheromosa with an answer in Clef), whereas the special attackers that hit on the physical side can be accounted for as well since Keldeo, Tapu Lele, and Hoopa-U are some of the only ones strong enough to even 2HKO Chansey with their special attacks so the intention is more broadcasted.

It should worry more people that the mons that do break Chansey on the physical side are necessarily powerful as well. For example, Scarf Chomp's Outrage doesn't even 2HKO, so there obviously is some high threshold expected. Sure you can have a dedicated answer to Chansey, but it becomes a matter of connecting blows with it, which is easier said than done unless you have general breakers like Mega Mawile where they may leave Chansey in as a sac or to get off a bit of damage with Seismic Toss.

On top of that, defaulting to the best Pokemon in the game doesn't help since there's a high chance those 'best Pokemon' are going to be suspected sometime down the road. Mega Metagross, one of these 'best Pokemon', is like Mega Mawile in being able to overwhelm stall in general with Electric Terrain backup, so if they leave it in it's because Chansey is a sac or because they're about to click Counter and kill M-Meta.

>>32197161
what stuff like mega meta?
nothing even comes close to it

>>32197103
The closest thing it has to a full counter is SpDef Jirachi, since no one runs Specs Shadow Ball.

>>32197216
That's kinda like M-Meta.

SpDef Bronzong can also come in on it a good number of times and threaten it. AV Magearna is the default people use.

>>32190898
Mid-latter is the most fun anyway. Once you get past 1700 it's like 75% stall.

>check PGL stats
>#1 move Phero uses to KO is Ice beam
what
I thought it would be HJK

>>32191120
I don't think you'd realize what would happen to this meta if Lando got banned. As annoying as he may be, he's the only thing preventing the meta from completely devolving into chaos.

>>32197412
It's stall all over the suspect ladder. My first game was against stall. Had 3 stall games today alone.

People see it gets reqs so more use it. I really want to run a more breaking-oriented team but then you get shitted on by Hazard Lead HO and Baton Pass.

I already use Mega Mawile and that isn't enough for stall since they run shit like Helmet Skarm to put you in range of a revenging Duggy's EQ.

>>32197417
garchomp

>>32197417
Without looking at the stats myself, I'm guessing it's because Ice Beam is run by both the mixed and special attacker sets.

>>32197427
This. Plus most teams by default have a way to beat it, it's not like you have to build around it. It's a glue, and it does its job

>>32197441
fuck I'm retarded
thanks

>>32197417
Special sets like specs and quiver dance in particular started getting popular

>>32197103
Alolan-Muk
It can switch into everything Lele throws at it, and it can Pursuit it out if low enough. It's especially if it has a choice item and spammed Psychic.

>>32197454
>>32197506
Thanks

>>32197455
>it's not like you have to build around it
Seriously. Short of purposely trying to not include anything that can check it or counter it you will always have one way or two to deal with it as long as you have average teambuilding skills and not making some gimmicky shit.

>implying a chaotic meta is a bad thing
it's like you literally hate change or something.

>>32193322

This image gets me every time.

Noctowl taking the hit like a champ!

>>32198176
play AG or VGC if you want a chaotic meta

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>>32198335

>>32198343
>AG
>chaotic
only for people who don't play to win.

also i do play VGC and it's miles better than smogon OU.

>>32198383
Then go post in /vgcg/ instead of shitposting here.

>>32190320
Doesn't she get OHKO by pretty much any priority move?

>>32198567
>priority moves
>existing in this meta
Good one.

>>32198567
Psychic terrain disables priority

>>32198567
A Mega-Metagross bullet punch doesn't even OHKO.

>>32198567
Actually no, only two or three common priority users can outright OHKO it (Mega Pinsir, choice band Zygarde after SR damage, and Ash greninja if Phero hasn't set up with quiver dance yet)

>>32198617
MOTTO MOTTO TSUYOKU

>>32198567
max atk adamant mega sciz needs a good roll to ohko

>>32198579
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 198-234 (69.9 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

What the fuck? How on earth does it survive? 71/37 shouldn't survive a ~72 power (calced both stab and tough claws) coming off of 145 ATK with max EVs. That's ridiculous.

>>32198715
It also survives an EQ from lando-t

>>32198666
Satan is right, this cockroach isn't actually made of glass.

>>32198715
this is what minmaxing looks like, boys

>>32198715
Neutral hits do surprisingly little damage. If you want to kill Phero with priority, use Mega Pinsir.

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>>32197435
Use Leech Seed Serperior. Just won me the game by literally spamming Leech Seed on whatever unaware mon stall has. It's also 100x better now that Phero isn't around.

>>32195371
Closest thing I got.

>>32198820
replace ferro with lele and it's pretty accurate

>>32198757
>This pokemon has to have 570bst total
>and it has to have 6 prime base stats
>also it has to be hyper offense oriented and outpace everything
>and still not die to priority

HORUDO MY SAKE

>>32198842
If I didn't know better, I would think that GF asked Smogon to design a hyper offensive glass cannon of that caliber, and what Smogon came up with got implemented into the game as a cute waifuroach.

>>32198840
Lele would be garbage on that team

>>32198855
Tbh smogon hates shit like Phero. Have you seen their custom pokemon? They're all very reasonable, stat wise. Still OU viable, but not fucking insanely minmaxed like Phero or less relevantly Kartana.

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>>32198876
>Have you seen their custom pokemon? They're all very reasonable, stat wise.

>>32198876
I wouldn't call Kartana minmaxed. It has an awkward defensive stat distribution.

>>32198944
It has reasonable stats, though. Its insane movepool breaks it.

>>32198979
nigga it literally doesn't matter when you hit a speed tier above garchomp and have 180 fucking atk

he's just as minmaxed as pheromosa

>>32199022
It sounds a lot like Protean Greninja if you ask me; a mon with a godly offensive movepool with just the right ability to abuse it.

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>>32199088
Yeah, Illusion on a mon with good setup moves creates that sort of unhealthy 50/50 scenario like with Aegislash, you can either try attacking with a move that'd be super effective against the mon it's disguised as, but it's all up to chance whether it really is or not. If you do something to hit Aurumoth and it really IS the mon it's disguised as, it'll get off a free hit or worse, too.

So is there any reason to climb during the suspect test at all?

>>32201242
No, it's 100% getting banned. The suspect ladder is cancer because people are using stall more than normal because they've seen it works from the early climbers.

If anything, take this time to test teams on the suspect ladder since it's a temporary ladder.

>>32199125
Or it runs no guard quiver dance blizz/thunder with focus hit in the side.
Or dragon dance with zen headhit and megahit with a side of close combat.
Aurumoth is fucking dumb.

>>32198944

This is basically the one exception. They even admitted they messed up big time with Aurumoth.