What went so horribly wrong?

>>31960183
Your Father forgot to pull out

>>31960183
Someone drew really dumb insults on the picture.

Nothing. Game freak delivered quality games. The sales reflect that

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First and foremost, the terrible level design and focus on a prominent narrative. These things should be self-explanatory for anyone who has played the games but to sum it up, the maps are lacking in complexity and aptitude for exploration while the writing is full of missed opportunities, fails to make sense at critical points and chokes the player with dialogue and cutscenes that don't add anything to the plot.

Second is the auxiliary features and content. Between the Festival Plaza, which is basically entirely made up of luck and grinding, the completely pointless, unfun and also immensely grindy Poké Finder and the Poké Pelago which is literally just waiting, this aspect is also full of baffling shortcomings.

Then there's also a bunch of miscellanous nitpicks like the butchered fishing, removal of the National Pokédex, very noticeable frame drops during certain situations among other things.

Obviously the games also have a few good things about them but since OP asked what went wrong I'm not gonna go into that.

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>>31960271

>>31960183
Your father's delivery. Had the fucker died on birth, he wouldn't have been raped by a fucking street whore and given birth to you.

>>31960183
Bad stats distribution for the starters.
Lots of lazy or boring designs.
Necrozma encounter.
Poorly made customization option.
Feels rushed as hell.

>>31960305
I forgot Festival Plaza.

>>31960271
>The sales reflect that
If you genuinely believe that, I feel sorry for you.

>>31960325
It does reflect that. If the game were were shit like v/p keeping then after the 3 days. The sales should have completely collapsed. Like no mans sky or sonic 06. That didn't happen

>>31960183
You didn't like it I guess?
People have different opinions?
I thought the games were pretty good. In my top 3 gens at least.

Oh look a game that looks different from the other Pokemon games. That means they're shit and anyone who likes this game is an autistic 12 year old and my opinions are facts xDDDDDDDDDDD

>>31960271
>>31960325
and is the most refunded game

>>31960183
Your mother didn't abort you.

>>31960281
Does the game still have the "call for help" mechanic I was reading about?

>>31962627
[citation needed]

>>31962872
Yes it does. It's an okay feature when you want it to happen but annoying as hell when you don't.

DexNav and horde battles were the superior means of EV training and chaining for shinies and hidden abilities.

no end game is my only gripe.
i mean, it's not a small gripe since that's all most of us would be doing right now, but I really thought the main single player compaign delivered on all fronts. Just wish you got to fight Poke-Lusamine directly, but i guess Pokemon isn't ready for something quite that crazy.

>>31960183
Allowing DSbabbies like OP to post.

>>31960183
not perfect but still better than x/y and oras

I got through x/y pretty quickly cause holy shit 3D and all of the new pokemon but I still haven't even finished oras yet cause hoenn is so shit

>>31962881
the game is short and "easy" as fuck
too many cutscenes
and cut mant elements

they stopped trying

>>31962975
/thread

>>31960344

Sales just reflect awareness of the game. Nothing more. But here's your (You) since you made me reply.

>>31962975

What did he mean by this?

>>31963081
He wanted a source for the bullshit claim, not your opinion.

>>31963424
remember atari ET?

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>>31960271
Even if this is bait, it's scary that there are retards out there who genuinely believe this.

so whats

>>31963081
BW?

>>31960183
Pokemon skcny and Pokemon mpoon?

>>31963415
That's Bullshit. Alot bought a 3ds just to play the games.

Pokemon go is a real awareness game

>>31963536
Look games or movies that are considered shit. Usually flop. Pokemon sun and moon had amazing sales. Even after the 3 days. So WOM. Must of been positive

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>>31964661
>he genuinely thinks sales are a tool to measure a game's quality
Let me guess, you also think XY were the best games of the series don't you? Since it had the best sales ever since generation I. Top fucking kek

>>31964710
Wasn't that D/P? I could've sworn they outsold x and y

Level design, while no longer an ugly grid, is at times confusing and the map is barely usable. The Rotom sex mini map is needed to even get around.

Tutorial drags on for unbearably wrong. XY you could literally buy pokeballs first town and catch shit on first route.

The game play breaks way too often for cutscenes, you can barely make two steps in the right direction without Hau or Lillie interrupting you.

As cool as the concept of a more common boss pokemon is, it just falls flat in execution and there isn't a good way to balance it. The simple tasks are also a massive step down from the little puzzles we had left in gyms.

Festival Plaza. I'll skip a comment on this one.

Poor local Pokemon distribution, Bug Bus and Crabrawler having to wait for an evo to the damn endgame location.

>>31960271
woo boy

Desu these games aren't great but they're the best first entries since red and blue

>>31964710
X and y 2nd lowest sales after black and white. You are Fake news spearding

>>31964710
Look at this idiot, look at him and laught.

No XY have the worst sales, like BW2 and R/S/E

>>31964800
XY and RSE are the only pokemon games to become the best selling games on the system anon.
BW2 are also the best selling third versions since yellow.

Using your logic DP is the worst for not becoming a best seller on a system with far more reach than either

>>31964800
I will "laught" at him, as soon as you tell me what laught means.

>>31964789
>>31964800
Kill yourself illiterate samefag if you think sales measure a game's quality.

>>31964842
You talk a lot but have been proven wrong twice now, both times switch the argument to defend yourself. Show evidence or gtfo with your baseless claims.

>>31964861
>Moving the goalposts

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XY is the fifth best selling game in the series (most likely soon will outsell Ruby and Sapphire but Sun and Moon will beat it so it'll stay as fifth anyway). It was also the best 3ds game for over 3 years

Worst selling game is Crystal, then Emerald and then Platinum

>>31960183
By far the worst region in the game, It small, empty, and doesn't feature anything interesting
Festival plaza is a huge stepdown from the PSS and any online menu
The new gimmicks are all bad and useless ( Rotom dex is litteraly just a map on the bottom screen, the bean islands are completely useless, taking pictures is a boring minigame, refresh is a gimped pokemon amie )
game is short and uninteresting, with exploration being gimped ( there's nothing new to visit / revisit in the region, compare that with Gen V, it's sad )
even more lag issues, game takes ages to start up, menus and battles are even laggier than in XY
UI is the worst in any nDS pokemon games, bottomscreen is useless making 50% of the screen wasted in game
Ultra beasts are just legendaries, nothing new
Also everything about them, they're just random encounters in the grass, + necromoza
Battle tree is a gimped battle mansion and battle mansion was already a gimped version of battle subway
and that's just the surface

>>31964863
>Show evidence or gtfo with your baseless claims.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Game_Boy_Advance_games
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/3ds.html
You were saying?
Also I'm not the same anon you were talking to before.

>>31964650
>>31964661

Sun and Moon only sold so well because they piggybacked off of the success of Go.

>>31964869
Not an argument.

>no real post-game other than UB hunt
>world feels incredibly cramped after having seen everything
>with Lily gone everything feels empty and pointless
>no PSS
>SOS battles are worse than hordes for EV grinding and worse than the DexNav for getting Pokémon with HA
>no decent distractions like Trainer PR Videos, Hidden Bases, or Contests
>framerate keeps dropping whenever anything happens

>>31964842
What was the best-selling Game Boy game (and GBC)?

If x and y were so shit. ORAS would have flopped. But that never happened instead ORAS became the highest selling pokemon games

/vp/ - Market Analysts

>>31964861
Fine let's use metacritic media reviews 87 still that's fantastic for a casual game. Good reviews and amazing sales = good game

>>31964963
>>>>31964904

Good marketing makes game sell, not quality

Are underages ITT trying to seriously argue sales=quality? If that were the case then Bayformers is the greatest movie franchise of all time.


SuMoon went wrong with trying to veer away from an already perfect formula. Pokémon is about adventureing around with dumb animals. That's all it's core audience(babies) cares about. What fucking kid would rather be bogged down with endless cutscenes and dialogue for a mundane story than be out catching Pokémon? Nobody asked for a fucking story.

This is why Gen 1 was perfect.

>"Here's this and that. This is the bare minimum story you need to justify and objective. Now go out and explore the world and enslave monsters.

It's simple and to the point.

>>31964984
I meant the best-selling GB/C games in general, not limited to Pokémon (since Anon was implying that Pokémon games weren't the best-selling games on those systems, which I find rather suspect)

>>31964990
Star wars biggest movie franchise

>>31964987
Tell that too. Yo kai watch in the west

>>31964990
Do you realize that Game freak is trying to sell to teenagers, right ?
All the nostalgia pandering is here because they want to sell to people who played Red/Blue and dropped the series inbetween
Kids now play fifa and forza on their PS4, they tried to ride on Pokemon's GO popularity, mainly played by teenagers
and that's also nintendo's strategy in general, look at all the switch ads, there's almost no kids, only teenagers and young adults

>>31964998
And you're going to argue the Star Wars franchise is filled with quality movies underage?

>>31964990
I agree wth some of you points but disgree with some other ones

There was too much cutscenes and story in SM, thats true but i wouldnt say people just want pure catching/batling gameplay.

There should story but not as 50% of the game and with better story telling), there shouldbe some decent side missions/features and post game but of course majority of the game should be battles.

>>31965003
Kids who played Gen 1 are grown men now, not teenagers. Pokemon's primary fanbase is toddlers and always will be. Making a game that bogs children down with endless reading is terrible game design on their part.

>>31965003
>they tried to ride on Pokemon's GO popularity

SM was finished when Pokemon GO was becoming popular

>>31964993
Anon the best selling gameboy game was Tetris by about 10 mil.
On the DS NSMB was the best selling title followed by Nintendogs, MKDS and Brain Training.

>>31965021
In the marketing, I saw a lot of ads mentioning Pokemon GO

>>31964990
i'm on your general side but that argument is garbage

>that's all it's core audience cares about
you just conceded that s/m had great sales, and it did, so that entire argument is moot

people/casuals liked it, which is most of the fan base

the only whiff you get of this game being garbage is when you come here, i agree with most of vp that it is, but that is by no means what the core fanebase believes. vp isn't the core fanbase. it's a game for casuals, and it succeeded, nobody is that allergic to cutscenes. this casual garbage is exactly what people want

Sun and moon are blockbuster games

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In regards to this whole "quantity vs quality" argument, the one thing I fail see anyone mention is what exactly makes a "quality".

Remember, GO brought in a decent amount of new fans (or "normies", but that's not relevant) into Pokemon.
This matters because they are relatively new to the franchise. Unlike a bunch of anon here, they have absolutely nothing to compare SM to, leading to them believing that SM is the better game because hey, newer is better right?


My point is, SM is good by itself. In comparison to any other gen though, it kinda fell flat.

>>31965028
I just meant that SM wasnt rally made with GO in mind as GO hit the market when SM was already a finished product waiting for release

The cutscenes at the beginning that make 90% of the first island a chore. Lack of 3D and crawling frame rate is ass too.
Everything else is an improvement for me though. Even postgame is the best we've had since platinum.

>>31965037
>SM is good by itself
no not really, compared to other game series, most pokemon games are really average or below average
SM is one of the worst game in the pokemon series, that is already a series full of mediocre games
It's not a good game

>>31965044
>Even postgame is the best we've had since platinum.

HOW??????

>>31960344
>v/p

>>31965007
>everybody that disagrees with me is underage
>I am so mature and very smart
>being joyless and deliberately contrarian means I possess unbound wisdom and insight

>>31965054
Because Battle Subway and Battle Maison suck. PWT is okay but it's just Emerald Battle Dome with famous NPCs

>>31965007
So just because it's popular means it's shit. You sound like a fucking hipster

>>31965031
Did you miss my point about sales not being an indicator of quality?

>>31965069
Battle tree is litteraly a copypasted battle subway and battle mansion but without rotation and triple battles

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>>31964983
>he doesn't know reviewers get paid to give a good score
Holy fuck how delusional

>>31965060
This post is so underaged it hurts. How old are you kid?

Do yourself a favor and go play classic Pokémon

>>31965091
Sales, reviews are good but my opinion means it's fact. Great logic

>>31960183
(((3d))) graphics.

>>31965098
"Classic" pokemon. Serious. This place is just becoming nostalgia filled dumpster fire

>>31965071
That's not the argument, we're not talking about popularity. The argument SuMo fags like to use is sales are an automatic indicator of quality when that isn't true at all. Again Bayformers do great in sales but would you say those are quality films?

>>31965050
Do you expect people who have never played Pokemon to know that?

GO, for its time, was something everyone enjoyed. By everyone I meant even people who have never played any game.

>SM is one of the worst game in the pokemon series
That's kinda my point; they don't know that.

>>31965098
Suck my dick fag. You're on a pokemon board on 4chan bleating "le underage XDDD" like it's an argument.

You sound like one of those normies that say they're a fan yet only like muh original 151.

>>31965108
It's not nostalgia boy. SuMo has objectively bad game design while the older games had good game design.

There is nothing good about forcing a mundane story onto the player. There is nothing good about making the player wait. There is nothing good about taking the focus of a Pokemon game off the fucking Pokemon.

>>31965110
Reviews are good. Not only the sales. Transformers get trash reviews besides the first one.

So good reviews and great sales. Is a great indictor in good games. The small minority are the loudest but think there opinion are facts

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>>31965122
>"Suck my dick fag!"

Fucking kek. Kid shouldn't you be in 2nd period by now? Pay attention to class and leave this board.

>>31965082
But tree is comfy... Also UB hunts at least tie into the plot (which is incidentally something the main series games never really had)

>>31965124
Yeah hoenn had great game design with 60% water.

It is nosaliga. People think the older games aren't linear. When you could finish the games in 20-25 hours besides gen 2. Sun and moon was more time consuming game

>>31965138
>period
lol

>>31965146
>Yeah hoenn had great game design with 60% water.
IGN pls go

>>31965127
Isn't it common knowledge by now that gaming journalism is shit. What website wants to deal with giving a bad score to an entry in the prestigious Pokémon franchise.

Remember that Skyward Sword and GTA IV regularly got perfect scores.

>>31965146
>Sun and moon was more time consuming game

Because more cutscenes, less exploring and just playing

>>31965140
>comfy
what do you mean by that ?
You just do pokemon battles, it's not exploration or anything
>>31965146
In the Kanto, Johto, Hoenn and SInnoh regions you had an option to challenge some gyms in different orders

>>31965146
>Longer games=Good

Keep it up. The underageness is hilarious.

>>31964932
>Pokemon go
>Loses popularity
>Pokemon sun and moon
>People buy them because they are good games

People Pokemon sun and moon is the future of pokemon game design. 14.5 million shipped games in 45 days is unbelievable. If you don't like the direction..might as well quit. It's not gonna change

>>31963504
That's still not a source on your claim about returns, dipshit

>>31965166
I dunno, I just like the environment and music I guess. Yeah it's functionally the same thing, but at least it's not taking place on a fucking train or some lame-ass theater. Also does Battle Royal count as post game? It's fun unless you're getting ganked or have to deal with Protect spam.

>>31965180
>Underage has no argument

You think GameFreak isn't reviewing the criticism as we speak? We're going back to glorious Gen 1 style gameplay so say goodbye to your shitty cutscenes and mundane stories.

>>31965199
>battle royal
heh, I just did the four rounds for the battle pose, didn't try it online, I forgot about it, It's kinda fun I guess, but there's not a lot to do outside of online

>>31965208
>We're going back to glorious Gen 1 style gameplay
Meaning what? No plot, boring gym battle > E4 > nothing formula. I agree the cutscenes were too much early on but otherwise your opinion is awful.

>>31965208
Gen 1 was the worst. Hopefully they remake them again to fix the mistakes. Add cut scenes.

>>31965229
>No plot, boring gym battle > E4 > nothing formula
as opposed to ?

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>>31960183
>Shit
>Poon

>>31960183
Better than Gen 6, desu senpai.

>>31962316
Nice argument, loser.

>>31960344
High sales means lots of people got curious about the game. Nothing more, nothing less.

It doesn't mean that they liked it in the end.

>>31964932
This

>>31965179
Pokemon go may lost its wind but before it died it brought lots of people back or remind a lot of people that pokemon still exists.
Even the wake of all of this is enough to give sun and moon a boost.

game is for babby

>>31965760
And yet you are here.

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>>31960183
Nothing imo, I'm replaying it right now because I liked it so much.

>>31960183
Nothing.
Everyone seems to have this imaginary standard of what they need to be, and since everyone is a whiny complaining four year old..

>>31966116
>anyone who criticizes my perfect game is a four year old cry baby

whoa, nice argument.

>>31965102
>implying it was ever an opinion
You keep telling yourself that.

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>>31960271
Gen 1 confirmed best gen

>>31962316
OP didn't say anything like that.

>>31960344
I wish people like you would take their brains and heads out of their asses and realize that sales only mean interest in a game and not the actual fucking quality. Well, unless you think COD is a masterpiece.

>>31962999
Hoenn is a better region than Alola.

>>31964661
By this logic you believe the Twilight series is good, right anon?

>>31966240
hey don't worry, in our modern age there are lots of services to help the mentally disabled

>>31964919
>Ultra beasts are just legendaries, nothing new

The UBs got cucked harder than Zygarde.

>>31965000
>>31964987

Fire Emblem: Awakening.

>>31965156
Remember the 8.8 debacle. All game serieses have crazy fanboys but Pokemon, Zelda, Mario, and Fire Emblem have some especially annoying defense forces.

>>31965031
Just because someone bought the game doesn't mean they didn't end up disliking it in the end.

>>31960183
They're the newest games in the series, so they're shit because of that.

>>31965140
>comfy

I really hate this word.

>>31966455
They're not shit because they're new they're shit because of some bad decisions made with them.

>>31965146
>Sun and moon was more time consuming game
That's because the game is 90% cutscene padding. Without it SM becomes the shortest pokemon game to date.

almost all new pokemon are bad except the ultra beasts and tapus

>>31965739
It wasn't near enough to encourage a sizable portion of its players who had forgotten to buy a 3ds and the game. Many people were already going to or had a 3ds, but they weren't the people who forgot that it existed.

>unbalanced story to game play ratio
Even with heavier story oriented pokemon games, its usually 4 or so cutscenes per city or town depending. 7th gen your lucky to get through a building or road without 3 cutscenes each, its ridiculous. Not to mention the focus of the story was mostly Lillie which is okay but she hogged way too much screen time, meaning the villains Guzma and Lusamine (who were infinity more interesting) barely got any screen time)
>terrible pokemon placement and leveling
Most of the new pokemon were actual nightmares to get in game. You would think with a new batch of the critters you'd want them to be center stage, but most have 5% encounter rates, or are so out of the way they are barely worth it. This is only on top of the fact that half evolve at literally the end of the game, or can only be caught by the point where there isint much of your story left to really enjoy them. Which made more annoying when you find out how horridly managed their stats are.
>botched online and breeding
X and Y gets shit on a lot, and rightfully so, for the most part the games werent all that great. But they fucking nailed online play with PSS, and breeding was done so perfectly. A place to run infinitly, place to level up your mons which also gives you more money then you put in. Had these both been kept in Sun and Moon, I probably would of been able to forgive so much more.