Dugtrio did not get banned to Ubers. It's staying OU. >Eligible

It's Megagross all over again.

>>31921384
Well if it was banned everything would get much worse for a bit prompting more bans

So we wasted all of this time for nothing

>>31921384
dugtrio is fine, arena trap is ass. that said i wouldve voted to ban

>>31921384
We wasted an entire month suspecting this shit.
Megagross, Grenigger, Lele, or Phermosa suspect never.

>>31921384
this only serves as further proof of a biased system

>>31921384

Should mention that this guy saved Dugtrio single-handedly with his wall of text.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-suspect-process-round-2-dirt.3595351/page-11#post-7245924

>>31921439
>Metagross isn't broken because Dugtrio is a counter :^)

>>31921439
Pheromosa is fine.

>>31921444
What a fucking faggot

>>31921384
Well, it's official. Smogon just shat on the one chance it had to redeem itself. Because making sure stall remains even more cancerous than it was before gen 7 is clearly a good idea

>>31921559
You realize Smogon didn't decide what got banned in that case right? You could have participated yourself if it bothered you that much.

>>31921444
That was really comfy to read for some reason

>>31921444
I was neutral on this suspect so I didn't vote, but this guy swung me towards don't ban. He's right about the fact that there is more broken shit allowed in OU right now, and that stuff should have been suspected first.

>>31921594
Your right, I'm not sure why.

>>31921444
Stall only functions so well because its not the best playstyle. This is completely true. Stall often gets put on the side when building because people are more focused on taking on the top threats (cough cough the actual broken stuff). Noone builds a team thinking "Ok this team will not be weak to Stall". They make their team and then they realize its Stall weak. And then they try to fix it by adding one of said band-aid fixes. And it leads to a vicious cycle of bad building. If stall was the absolute best playstyle right now, this would be the opposite. Stall would be rampant in every tourney (6 uses in 60 battles in SPL come onnnn) and so people would build with the idea of beating stall in mind. This doesnt happen right now and thats why we have so many people complaining at the end of the day.

This genuinely made me think.

>>31921482
>Fastest unboosted (and viable) Pokemon in OU.
>Extremely hard hitting U-Turn and High Jump Kick/Focus Blast
>Enough coverage to deal with Fairies
>Most reliable thing that can switch into it are Toxapex and Marowak-A (Who is kind of a shitmon outside of what is counters in OU)
How is this thing not ban worthy again when Deoxys-N is Ubers?

>>31921764
It gets butt fucked by A-Marowak

It's literally the only thing keeping it from broken. Once it gets knock off it's going straight into ubers

>>31921764
>walled by anything that resists bug and fighting

>>31921672
>Stall only functions so well because its not the best playstyle. This is completely true. Stall often gets put on the side when building because people are more focused on taking on the top threats (cough cough the actual broken stuff).

That's the same mentality that of why Smogon made the Baton Pass clause.

>>31921384
BAAAA BAAA BAAAA

You sheep deserve to die

>>31921900
hi smugbonnie

>>31921782
+1 224+ SpA Pheromosa Bug Buzz vs. 232 HP / 80 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 198-234 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 224+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scolipede: 222-262 (85 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

+1 224+ SpA Pheromosa All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex: 189-222 (62.1 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 177-211 (51.6 - 61.5%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor-Mega: 192-227 (55.9 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 224+ SpA Pheromosa Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Sableye-Mega: 220-259 (72.6 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>Pretty much nothing in OU or is OU viable has 100% of switching in safely

>>31921925
Honestly, Pheromosa was fine before people "discovered" the quiver dance set. That shit through it over the edge.

>>31921953
I'm not surprised. Setting up with something so frail seems like a terrible idea but it works thanks to how many things it switches out.

Stall players dominated the ladder and voted to keep Dugtrio. I been stopped playing Smogon OU because of stall and when I stopped, people didn't even use Dugtrio on stall so I don't know how big of a problem it is, what I know is the biggest stall problem when I was playing was Mega Sableye. As long as Mega Sableye was allowed to be used in the ladder, ofcourse a bunch of stall players would qualify to vote and keep Dugtrio around. Ban them both, and stop letting the top stall pokemon in during voting time of banning a stall pokemon.

>>31921384

They need to ban Arena Trap instead

>>31921953
>people run qd phero
y tho

>>31921482

Until Tutors.

>>31922360
Of course. It doesn't have the movepool just yet to abuse its stats.

>>31922349

Use it.

>>31921444
he's right, stall wouldn't be as much of an issue if you didn't have to use 5 slots out of 6 to counter the actually threatening monsters that dominate OU like megagross, lando and the tapus

>>31922349

Because its fucking good. I've been telling people since the very beginning to use the QD set.

>>31922434
What's the best item for it? Fightnium Z?

>>31922462
Yes

>tfw my 2 alts both voted don't ban
>tfw I made the difference in the vote for once

Feels weird.

Something about banning Dugtrio seven gens in feels inherently weird..

>>31922539
It got a somewhat substantial buff seven gens in.

>>31922539

It did just get +20 Atk.

>your favorite will never get a buff to the point it's considered bannable

>>31921444
>My College thesis wasn't as well written and was probably shorter
The guy below him put this. Top fucking kek

>>31922551
How much of a difference does that really make though? Like is there some calcs someone has done to show how bad it was or what?

>>31922550
>>31922551

Yeah, I know. It's just weird seeing it rise to such prominence after so long. I'm used to it being a decent but not exceptional OUmon.

Remember when OU used to not be cancer?
Me either.

>>31921925
>Living long enough for a 2hko

>>31922655
OU wasn't cancer until smogon went full retard near the end of gen 4

>>31922664
>smogon
>not gamefreak
>>31922660
You kill them when they come in on the switch

>>31922668
>GF giving a shit about fanfiction meta
the council deserves the nightmare of "balancing" megas and Z moves after banning salamence in gen 4

>>31922630

Turned a handful of 2HKO/3HKOs into OHKO/2HKOs.

Made a pretty big difference, just not enough to get banned.

>>31922655

I do, around the end of Gen 4. After that...

>>31921925
>252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor-Mega: 50% of Pheromosa's Health

fixed

>>31921594
>>31921646
Seeing someone who actually knows his shit about Pokemon rather than actually be a ignorant retard from /vp/ is a very pleasant experience.

>2017
>people still play DUDE STALL LMAO

>>31921953
>>31922434
But it will die before setting D:

>>31922934
>only 5.37629% of all teams on the ladder are dedicated stall teams

Pheromosa ban when

>>31921384
>cancerous, uninteresting play style remains the most viable

Congratulations Smogon for making OU unplayable three gens in a row.

Now if you'll excuse me, it's time to make one of my own.

>>31922987
Soon™

>>31922993

Bait.

>>31922462
Been using it for ages, I literally caught Timid, Naive, Hasty ad Naughty to rest the waters.

Hasty was a mistake since Naive and Naughty are superior in every scenario but Quiver pass timid is unstoppable after the first beast boost, to high extent modest would be a fine bet, but timid actually gets some bonus points on taking a whole speed tier down.

>>31922993
Stall isn't the most viable. It wasn't viable at all in Gen 6 and was well down the list of playstyles in Gen 5. You're talking out of your arse.

>>31923004
Not saying stall was the cancerous part about gens 5 and 6, but they had their own significant problems.

>>31923007
There was nothing wrong with Gen 5, and Gen 6's problems were Gamefreak's fault.

>>31923009
>There was nothing wrong with Gen 5
You never played gen 5 meta
>Gen 6's problems were Gamefreak's fault.
everything wrong with the meta is Gamefreask fault, they made the games

>>31923004
Stall was hard to run in Gen5 due to weather wallbreakers and hazard spam, people tried to cling to hail stall at the start to try and survive the meta but Abomasnow was dead weight this gen.

Gen6 is the WALL/STALL BREAKER generation making stall one of the least concern teams to build around if you had a core that could handle double Defog after the gothitrap ban.

People have a hate boner for stall, but seriously it is true that unless you lost to it recently you never consider using a dedicated unboosted wallbreaker due to fear of the 110+ speed crew + scarf/helmet Landorus T raining in your parade, there are just bigger threats to handle than no momentum Blissey and Tokapex and you give zero fucks on shedshell unless you run a magnezone magnet making the one time you find a decent anti meta stall or balance team your worst nightmare.

>>31923020
>There was nothing wrong with Gen 5

t. Drizzle Politoed user.

gen 4 was the best competitively

the only centralizing factor was garchomp and he got banned instantly

>Literally only needed 2 more votes to ban
I love it

I'm just glad i can use my alolan dugtrio again which, even though it doesn't have sand trap arena, was still not allowed in the suspect test ou alongside normal dugtrio. but you know, it's not like i expect zarel to know how to code at this point.

>>31923049
Wait is this real?

Someone actually brings a Dugtrio A to OU?

I never even bothered to use that guy so I wouldn't know if he was banned due to faulty code.

>>31923059
I mainly use a dugtrio because he was part of my in game team and i karenfag in showdown from time to time. but then when i tried to use him during the suspect test it told me i couldn't use the team because of dugtrio being suspect tested. idk if this ever got fixed because i just shrugged it off and made a new team.

>>31921764
>Marowak is kind of a shitmon besides the fact that it beats lots of things
So... it's not a shitmon because it beats lots of things?

>>31923073
Oh, so he doesn't really had a niche, for a second I thought he would have an use over Excadrill.

I mean cool finding bro but I would have expected some derp shenanigans to have found out about it.

>>31923101
Marowak only niche is being a band aid to those things, think of Porygon2 being a band aid vs Megamence and gen 6 protean Greninja.

Honestly I was leaning towards ban at the beginning but I do feel like the test should have either been arena trap to begin with, or it should have been something else like mega sableye, pheromosa, greninja, etc. Really cant fit something reliable to deal with stall when all the other broken shit is still around. That being said, I do hope that they consider testing mega sableye or arena trap sometime down the line after (hopefully) all the broken offense shit is gone.

>>31923103
to be fair, a dugtrio is fast for this meta, but it's not the best thing you could put on your team.

>>31923116
They won't test arena trap for the same reason Blaziken is still banned and torrent Greninja isn't used in Gen6 OU .

Trapinch isn't broken just like Yanmega, Scolipede and Ninjask aren't broken or Keckleon wasn't broken in Gen6. It all comes down to banning the abuser instead of taking the niche of non offenders away, say it loud and proud but Karenfagging for the little guys can ruin the big ones.

>>31923162

That logic also applies to Shadow Tag and they banned the ability. Even people who voted to ban STag admitted that Wobbuffet was not broken.

>>31923162
There were several people that got reqs using diglett and trapinch stall. Those pokemon aren't broken at all but the niche is necessary in that specific kind of stall. I guess that really suggests that sableye is the real problem but everyone keeps whining that it isn't broken because of fairy types. I still believe that stall wouldn't be as much of an issue if all the broken offensive mons were gone, since you would have more room to fit answers to stall.

>>31923183
>stall wouldn't be as much of an issue if all the broken offensive mons were gone, since you would have more room to fit answers to stall.
This. I have no idea why they went after dugtrio first instead of this S rank offense mons.

>>31923162
no the real reason they just ban to big guys is because zarel is too lazy to complex ban.

>>31923202
because all the broken S ranks keep each other in check, so you either test all of them at once or you break the meta even more

>>31923212
Honestly they should just ban all of the apparently broken shit and then retest things one by one. That way there wont be the case that other broken shit will keep broken shit in check during the testing. I believe that's how they do early gen bans in UU

Gothitelle did nothing wrong

>>31923265
Goth stall was the worst of gen 6

>>31923265
If Goth was legal everybody would go back to DPP or BW2. It was less fun to fight than Aegislash.

File: _20170227_002304.jpg (45KB, 720x897px) Image search: [Google]

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>>31923212
What would probably happen if you remove the entire S rank?

>>31923265
goth stall is a meme

>>31921384
Stall players shouldn't be allowed to vote tbqh, they're extremely biased and thus their judgment cannot be trusted.

File: 1471064969488.png (5KB, 687x450px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 687x450px

>>31923183
>Pokemon with Arena Trap is suspected
>Is replaced by two other Pokemon with Arena Trap
>SABLEYE IS THE PROBLEM, ARENA TRAP DINDU NUFFIN

>>31923496
Sableye keeps hazards off the field allowing focus sashes to stay intact. If sash is broken duggy is much worse and cant pick off 2hkos

>>31923496
For the record I also hate arena trap but sableye helps to enable its effectiveness. It's one or the other if something's gonna happen. Sableye also deters use of old stallbreakers such as taunt gliscor and stallbreaker mew since magic bounce is aids on such a bulky pokemon, which means most of the stallbreakers you can use are fucked over by dugtrio.

>>31922971
>over 90% of top 20 teams are stall teams
hmmmm really jingles my jangles

>>31921444
>Gyslexic Duy: My College thesis wasn't as well written and was probably shorter
I think that sums up the reactions of everyone but the most head-in-ass smogonfags to reading this post

>>31923354
My skin would clear up, my chronic migraines would stop, Trump's entire White House would be found guilty of high treason, and the skies would rain champagne

>>31923598
t. bernout
:^)

>>31923598
What does it feel like to be a cuckold?

just use levitate on everything

>>31923598

he will not divide us! he will not divide us! he will not divide us! he will not divide us! he will not divide us! he will not divide us! he will not divide us! he will not divide us! he will not divide us!

>>31923675
Ask Trump. He's the 70 year old with an eleven year old "kid"

>>31923843
>projecting this hard

File: Projecting this haard.png (27KB, 591x195px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 591x195px

>>31923846
No no, I am projecting at LEAST this hard

>>31923354
All at once would be stupid and would ruin the meta for a good amount of time. Other shit would come back at full force, Lele, Koko, Excadrill, Zard X, and plenty of others would become the new broken shit and we wouldn't gain anything. I would argue that at the bare minimum, 3 or 4 other pokemon would need to be banned to restore the metagame to a playable point after the removal of all of them. this mainly comes down to lando, who is basically the glue that holds the tier together.

Metagross is a broken pokemon but is not as broken as Pheromosa, and Baton Pass needs to be suspected (or quickbanned) above everything else. Greninja is not anywhere near the level it was at the beginning of ORAS, but it still will probably get suspected. I wouldn't think it will end up getting banned, though.

>>31923911
>he reads fake news

File: just divide my shit up.png (2MB, 1432x715px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1432x715px

>>31923766

>>31923354
Yeah let's just ban all the offensive pokemons and make stall the only viable playstyle because 300 turn battles are so fun.

>>31922349
It prevents scarfs from revenge killing you and most threats that block its normal All Out Attack sets get 2HKOed.

It's Mega Lucario/Hoopa-U 2.0

>>31921444
>All the OP does is equate Dugtrio to Stall. And since most players fucking dislike Stall because its "boring to play against and noob strategy kill it", then the obvious move is to ban Dugtrio. Dugtrio is so much more than Stall. Dugtrio adds new dimensions to the game that can be very damn entertaining. Its fine if you dont enjoy the facets it brings, everyone has their own opinions. Just dont act like its stupid broken on these teams because we know its not. Duggy can support some teams very well, making for interesting combinations. It adds diversity, it helps keep some things in check. Everyone agrees it is not broken in teams that arent Stall, and why is that?...

Excellent.

>>31923044
It actually needed 5 (or 4 stallfags not voting)
88/150=58.6%
90/152=59.2%
93/155=60%
88/146=60.2%

>>31923101
When it fights it's counters, it's amazing because they can't touch it.

When it fights everything else in OU, it is awful since everything can 2HKO it easily, especially after stealth rocks.

>>31923567
No they're not where the hell are you getting these stats.
1850 elo is only 9% stall.

>>31924457
Go read
>>31921444

>>31921672
>They have not, however, actually played stall at a high level enough to realize how it can be quite complex to use as well.
Opinion dropped. Stall is the easiest to use because by definition you have counters to most mons. And it is the least punishing for mistakes since you have consistent recovery. If you fell for this wall of text, you are an idiot.

>>31923004
Stall was glued to the top of the ladder in gen 6 in nearly every tier.

Cool now I have to run Shed Shell on every single one of my wallbreakers to not auto lose at team preview. Glad that Stallfags aren't the ones that get the most reqs because getting reqs on ladder with Stall is literally the easiest thing possible. This is the only Suspect result I haven't agreed with, Smogon's insistence that "Stall is a viable playstyle that must be protected!" is one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever seen in a competitive community. Akuma being legal in Super Turbo is not as dumb as this stupid insistence on Stall being protected.

>>31921764
>>Extremely hard hitting U-Turn

>> and High Jump Kick/Focus Blast
Ha!

Wait is Dugtrio good now? I haven't been keeping up with smogon.

>>31925328
It's only considered overpowering on Stall. What would happen is that stall either loses a mon to the opposing Wallbreaker or makes a read on its switch in, then Dugtrio trapped and killed it. It's like an insanely more powerful Weavile, if you played during ORAS. The majority of well built teams will only have one Wallbreaker, and I'm pretty sure you can imagine what happens when a team without a Wallbreaker faces 4/5 walls.

>>31925313
High Jump Kick:
252 Atk Adaptability Lucario-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 868-1024 (270.4 - 319%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 811-954 (252.6 - 297.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

U-Turn:
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 480-568 (149.5 - 176.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 439-517 (136.7 - 161%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(You)

It will be suspected again sooner or later, mark my words. That, or they will go full retard and suspect Sableye instead.

>>31925433
>That, or they will go full retard and suspect Sableye instead
That's the opposite of going full retard

>>31924616
If you allow for pokemon with 31 points in both defenses to set up, you deserve to lose anyway.
Not to mention that Mega Luke did not deserve the ban in ORAS and should be unbanned in this meta, too.

>>31925537
>high ladder players wanting something that threatens stall to be unbanned
not happening

>>31925550
When will you kill yourself, smugbonnie?

>>31925537
>If you allow for pokemon with 31 points in both defenses to set up, you deserve to lose anyway
So you think you deserve if you predict the set wrong? How the fuck are you supposed to determine if it's Quiver or Scarf/Orb from team preview? If you think it's Scarf or Orb, you have to switch out. But if it's quiver it sets up on you. Losing one 50/50 should not give the insane amount of momentum Pheromosa can.

>>31925537
>Not to mention that Mega Luke did not deserve the ban in ORAS and should be unbanned in this meta, too.
>le ebin Parental Bond Terrakion with Starmie rollerskates, a Keldeo backpack, and the Steel-typing meme

>>31925565
>I should get wins handed to me without any thought
just play stall you fucking faggot

>>31925575
Bruh, there's no mid ground play in that scenario. You lose a Pokemon if you guess the set wrong. There's no way to determine what set it is from team preview. The win is being handed to the Phero player you fucking retard. But you're clearly a ladder god though, so I'll be seeing you around at 1200 during the Phero suspect.

>>31925565
Or maybe you know, attack them?
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Pheromosa: 468-552 (165.3 - 195%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Poison Jab does 50%
252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 256-303 (90.4 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
HJK doesn't OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 282-332 (99.6 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO and OHKO with rocks up
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 237-279 (83.7 - 98.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 219-258 (77.3 - 91.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 768-904 (271.3 - 319.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>>31925595
You lose pokemon to Dugtrio if you guess the switch wrong that one time. It's even more retarded.

>>31925727
When is someone bringing Phero in on any of those mons? And when is anybody using Lucario or Staraptor in OU? Yeah, if the opponent is fucking retarded and just clicks Quiver first turn, you probably won't have many problems because he's fucking stupid. Now, imagine if someone who wasn't retarded was using Pheromosa and could bring it out when its win condition was met. With the Quiver set, that makes meeting the condition much easier. Also, the specs set has been much more popular recently after its use in SPL, which makes switching into Phero even more of a fucking gamble.

>>31925752
>When is someone bringing Phero in on any of those mons?
If you can pressure your opponent well, he will have no choice but to bring Phero on one of these pokemons eventually. Of course, stall finds it difficult to pressure other playstyles, but then again, the argument here is that it should not have any special protection from Smogon the way it does now.
>And when is anybody using Lucario or Staraptor in OU?
You make that claim, but the pro-stall people say the same thing in regard to fighting against stall, i.e that you should use fringe mons such as mega gyara to deal with stall, even if they have no usage otherwise.
>Now, imagine if someone who wasn't retarded was using Pheromosa and could bring it out when its win condition was met.
But you could use the same argument about any other wincon?
>Also, the specs set has been much more popular recently after its use in SPL, which makes switching into Phero even more of a fucking gamble.
Just because it is difficult to switch into a pokemon, does not mean it's broken. Try finding a safe switch to Hydreigon, but no one is claiming it is broken.

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>>31925537
>>31925574

>>31925836
>the argument here is that it should not have any special protection from Smogon the way it does now
I don't know you think the point I'm making is, I think Duggy was fucking stupid and I voted ban. I'd ban Mega Sableye and Chansey if I had the power. And no matter how pressured someone is, they're never bringing a Pheromosa on a Scizor.
>pro-stall people say the same thing in regard to fighting against stall
Again, I'd ban Stall as a playstyle if it was possible.
>But you could use the same argument about any other wincon
Yes, but much like Ash Gren, Phero can get way too out of hand when it gets a Quiver off. A +1 Bug Buzz becoming +2 after you have to sack something because you don't have a safe switch to Phero snowballs extremely fast. You could try switching in your AV Magearna, but that's assuming you know it's the Quiver set. If it's Life Orb with HJK Magearna is 2HKOd.
>Try finding a safe switch to Hydreigon, but no one is claiming it is broken
Hydreigon does not have the ability to set up on you, and doesn't have a Special/Speed Moxie. Having to sack something to Hygreigon because you let the check be weakened is not the worst thing in the world because it's fairly easy to revenge kill. Phero on the other hand boosts up when it gets that kill, and it becomes much harder to revenge kill.

File: gochiruzeru_by_sailorclef-d2z2wym.png (307KB, 550x700px) Image search: [Google]

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Does this mean that my beloved Gothitelle can go back into OU?

>>31925977

No because Gothitelle isn't banned, Shadow Tag is

>>31925977
Shadowtag is still b& and they probably won't retest it ever.

>>31925991
>>31925997

Which is total BS as now that Dugtrio has it's attack boost it's more threatening than Gothitelle.

Smogon is full retard,

>>31926011
Well, yes and no. Dugtrio traps less pokemon than Goth, but it can eliminate pokemons goth couldn't. I'd say the difference between these two wasn't big enough to justify banning one of them and not the other.
Yes, smogon is retarded.

>>31926011
the sooner smogon collapses on itself the better

>>31926011

>Shadow Tag: Traps everything except Ghost types and other Shadow Tag users
>Arena Trap: Traps everything except Flying types, Ghost types, and Levitate users

Shadow Tag traps far more Pokemon than Arena Trap does.

Granted, Arena Trap is still cancer and should be banned, as should Magnet Pull. Trapping abilities are inherently broken.

>>31925960
>I don't know you think the point I'm making is, I think Duggy was fucking stupid and I voted ban. I'd ban Mega Sableye and Chansey if I had the power. And no matter how pressured someone is, they're never bringing a Pheromosa on a Scizor.
Allright
>Again, I'd ban Stall as a playstyle if it was possible.
You're my man. But I simply believe stall would die a natural death if Smogon were to unban things it threatened it too much in the first place.
Yes, but much like Ash Gren, Phero can get way too out of hand when it gets a Quiver off. A +1 Bug Buzz becoming +2 after you have to sack something because you don't have a safe switch to Phero snowballs extremely fast. You could try switching in your AV Magearna, but that's assuming you know it's the Quiver set. If it's Life Orb with HJK Magearna is 2HKOd.
The thing is to not let it set up in the first place. For the love of god, it has only 31 in both defenses. And if it does set up, just use priority to revenge kill it. If you're building a team and it does not have a priority, then something went wrong with your teambuilding process.
>Hydreigon does not have the ability to set up on you, and doesn't have a Special/Speed Moxie. Having to sack something to Hygreigon because you let the check be weakened is not the worst thing in the world because it's fairly easy to revenge kill. Phero on the other hand boosts up when it gets that kill, and it becomes much harder to revenge kill.
Wel, no, but it has a pretty cool ability in Levitate, good defenses, decent typing(arguably better than fighting/bug), amazing movepool and other stuff Phero doesn't have.

>>31926047
>Magnet Pull is broken

/vp/, ladies and gentlemen.

>>31926047
>Magnet Pull should be banned
t. skarmory user

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>Dugtrio thread

I don't play OU or any variation of smogon singles
give me one reason to play it
so far the only threads I see about it are just people complaining about stuff

>>31926165
It's fun

>>31926165
UU and below are fun because most of the high level cancer is contained in OU. However powercreep this gen has allowed some of the cancer to spread to UU so it's not as good as it used to be, however RU is still lots of fun.

>>31926234
So how fun a tier is is determined if strong pokemon exist within said tier or not ?
That doesn't really make sense

>>31926234

The lower you go, the more entry hazards dominate the meta due to the lack of good hazard removers in lower tiers.

>>31926248
Cancer = pokemon I don't like

>>31926269
What if I like every pokemon because I'm not a raging autist ?

>>31926269
Cancer = Pokemon that are not fun to play against. Stall pokemon, mostly. Because let's face it, if I lose to HO team, I don't mind because that happens in 15 turns and I lost 10 minutes of my life. If I lose to stall, that happens in 150 turns and I've wasted one hour. There is a difference, anon.

>>31926248
There's a difference between "good" and "overwhelmingly/obnoxiously strong". Stuff like Scizor and Keldeo have no business shitting up UU.

>>31926286
If you hate games that take too much time, play doubles then
An average game takes 7 turns, 15 is considered a lot
seriously, why do you play 6v6 if you hate playing against stall where it's the only format where it is playable ?

>>31926284
Then you'll be fine

>>31926300
To be fair, it's only in OU. That's where all the cancer is contained, in lower tiers stall can't function. I'm worried for it, though, UU just got Gliscor.

>>31926300
I don't like doubles. Singles are annoying, but doubles have things which I much more dislike.

>>31926165
Literally go play a few matches and see if you like it instead of listening to retarded anons on /vp/ that don't know what they're taking about.

>>31926359
What's the most generic team you can make ?
I play a lot of VGC and I barely know anything about OU teambuilding

>>31926084
>And if it does set up, just use priority to revenge kill it.
>priority
What if it's paired with Lele?

>>31926371
Lando, megagross, tapu of your choice, three free picks.

>>31926371
Scarf Lele, Pheromosa, Lando-T, Greninja (Ash or Protean), M-Metagross, Magearna/Tapu Koko. Seems about as generic as you can get, look up sets on smogon.

>>31926397
>>31926408
I guess It's 252 / 252 spreads on all of them with either LO or lefties on all of them and one scarf ?

>>31926416
Anon, if you aren't going to try, why even bother? Why not just settle back into shitposting about a format you've never played?

>>31926432
That was a legitimate question but thanks for answering
I'll look up the sets on smogon then

>>31926416
Lando-T should probably run a Z crystal or a Rocky Helmet, Ash-Greninja works best with Choice Specs, M-Metagross's item should be blindingly obvious, and I believe Magearna is better off with Ass Vest.

>>31926416
Look them up on smogon dude
Magearna for example uses AV, Tapu Koko uses Magnet, Lando-T rocky helmet/Flynium-Z, Greninja-Ash uses specs, etc.

>>31926084
>The thing is to not let it set up in the first place. For the love of god, it has only 31 in both defenses. And if it does set up, just use priority to revenge kill it. If you're building a team and it does not have a priority, then something went wrong with your teambuilding process.
This is the problem. Phero forces a 50/50, which in my opinion is really unfair. If you know it's Quiver/Life Orb/Specs/Whatever before the battle starts, I agree it's not a problem at all. But if they bring in Phero on a U Turn or whatever to a 40% Fini, it forces the Quiver/Poison Jab mixup. The Fini in this case HAS to Moonblast, and it's a 50% roll to kill a Quiver set. If the Fini doesn't Moonblast, Phero can continue to cripple your team.
>it has a pretty cool ability in Levitate, good defenses, decent typing(arguably better than fighting/bug), amazing movepool and other stuff Phero doesn't have
It fills a different role than Phero does, and that role is clearly not as valued since Hydreigon is like UU or something. It can be used in OU to success and I wouldn't call it a bad mon by any means, but it's not nearly as threatening as something like Phero that can run so many sets.

>>31926371
Check out the Smogon forums, they have a sample team thread for OU. A few of them are really bad though, so I could pastebin a few of them that I've had fun with if you want.

>>31926447
>>31926451
hivemind

>>31926447
>>31926451
thanks

>>31926432
>asks a legitimate question
>FUCKING SHITPOSTING
Fuck off

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>>31926468
So far the low ladder seems really weird

>>31926492
Yes, you'll get that until about 1300, at which point people will develop brains. You'll start seeing copypasted top-tier teams at around 1150-ish.

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>>31926492
Do be sure to post more low-ladder moments, I fucking love those so much.

>>31926492
Low Ladder is the most dangerous place on the internet. You never know what comes out of the woodworks. Also to get a better idea of how to play, I'd recommend watching good youtubers like Thunderblunder and PokeaimMD, specifically games where they talk with each other. I had zero idea how to play OU until I listened to their thought process with plays.

>>31925269
t. Sub 1600 shitter

>>31926525
I think he just wants to try it out. He should blaze through the lower elos to somewhere that matters fast enough if he plays competitive, even if it is a different format.

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>>31926521

>>31926588
B O W E R F U L

what rank are you right now?

>>31926588
>Hidden Power Mega-Aerodactyl
These are some highly advanced strats right here yo.

>>31926595
rank 1113
Just lost my first game, it turns out that having a sashed pehromosa in a team that cannot remove stealth rocks isn't very good

>>31926381
Terrain only lasts 5 turns.

>>31926661
Try out Tapu Fini. Replace your weakest link, it's a really good fix-all. It taunts, it defogs, it breaks stall, it does everything miscellaneous.

>>31926687
Bruxish and Tsareena last 2 at most, to be fair.

>>31926047
>cancer
Opinion dismissed.

>>31926735
>autism
onion discarded

>>31926742
>it's cancer because it traps muh pokemon

Sorry mang, all signs points towards you as the autist.

>>31926525
>Low Ladder is the most dangerous place on the internet. You never know what comes out of the woodworks
This.
I recently made an alt to test out a team. I've managed to get to 1600 before so while I'm not high ladder by any means, I think I've seen a lot of what the meta has to offer. But I never would have imagined that my Garchomp would be revenge killed by a fucking Scarf Pelipper. Elo hell is a strange and mysterious place.

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>>31926930

>>31926930
>But I never would have imagined that my Garchomp would be revenge killed by a fucking Scarf Pelipper
I've been waiting for an excuse to tell this story
>last mon Gren
>switch in tapu fini assuming it's Ash
>Protean Gunk Shot OHKOs at 100%
Ran a calc just to be sure, it was fucking Choice Banded Gren. Won anyways cause I had a Zone in the back, but holy shit Low Ladder is terrifying.

>>31926689
I'm trying different stuff, I'm not really having a lot of fun so far, even if I'm still on the lower tiers and I just played for like 30 min, It just doesn't feel right
It's feel that most plays end up being about guessing if the guy is gonna switch out or stay in front of his counter
and then if you guess right you get a kill / stealth rocks set up / momentum / whatever and just repeat until you win
I'm obviously oversimplifying it but that's my first feelings

>>31926970
That's not as bizarre as scarf pelipper desu.

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At least I'm runing into interesting teams

>>31927092
GEN

WUN

>>31926770

Trapping abilities have no place in a game where switching out of bad match-ups is such a vital part of the game.

If something kills one of your Pokemon, you just throw out your Dugtrio and kill it. It's about as braindead as it gets.

>>31926990
Prediction is core skill needed to play pokemon, but don't worry anon, everything will come with time and practice.

>>31927092
Something tells me that the mega was memezard.

>>31927133
I know how to predict, I played a lot of VGC
But In VGC, you have to predict what the opponent is gonna switch into, if he's gonna switch at all, what move he's gonna use, if he's gonna use protect on any mon
every turn is exciting because it can go in many ways
I just feel like that it's too one dimensional, since predictions are just about if the opponent is gonna switch ot not and it barely goes farther than that
I guess that It's more about the long runs, having the right positioning to kill the biggest threats in your opponents team while keeping your mons that are good against theirs and stuff like that, and the main skil is about being able to see into multiple turns in the future, but It's not for me I feel like it
>>31927197
lapras and blastoise were scarfed, zard was X ( and not Y, weird because he could have the chlorophyl synergy with Venusaur )

>>31927206
( but desu ash greninja and megearba are fun to use, I'm kinda sad that they're not allowed in VGC especially magearna, even if she's probably probably broken in doubles )

>>31927206
>the main skil is about being able to see into multiple turns in the future
This is basically what it comes down to. Determining how much damage something can take until it can no longer switch in, how much damage you need on X so that Y can OHKO it, if you switch into X here it invites Y in so do I have an answer to that, when can my win condition come in/how much health do I need on my win con, etc. If you don't like that, it's probably not for you, I could never get into VGC.

>>31926300
Because, doubles is kinda boring. Singles has a bunch of viable playstyles, yes, including Stall. Duggy was really the only thing making Stall dumb this gen anyway, sad they didn't ban it, but I'll live. I used Duggy-proof stallfuckers anyway.

>>31927238
OU must be a pain in the ass on cart because it's so much harder to keep track of your opponents pokemon's health and stuff
>>31927254
Well, doubles doesn't really have the concept of playstyle, you can have more offensively or defensively oriented teams but as far as I know, OU has both ends of the specturm with both extreme with Hyper offense and stall

>>31921444
>tfw you were the Slowking guy
Comfy as fuck

>>31926930
I fought someone with resttalk special gyarados that ran no stab moves.

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>>31921384
>>31921444
Kek. Imagine how mad the ~OU council~ and all the scrubs are right now. It took one good player to actually BTFO every single shitter with his arguments.

>>31927275
OU isn't hard in cartridge, you basically know this shit by hearth already and sans some weird set stuff should go down as expected without even needing to run calcs.

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>>31921444

what an incredible post

>When one of your favorites is relevant

It's a good feeling.

>>31927629
I'm sure the council that mostly voted not ban are assblasted at this outcome.

>>31927629
>>31927808
Actually the only member of the council that didn't vote ban didn't even vote. Why do you tryhards always post in these threads if you don't care about OU?

>>31927808
I didn't even vote here I'm ridiculously neutral on this.

>>31925303

No you don't moron. If you actually read the post, it says that Mega Gyarados 6-0'd Stall near effortlessly. So just run Megados.

>>31928239
Ah yes, the Skarm killer. It's not like the Stall player can go Sableye on the Taunt then go to Quag fishing for burns, or alternatively just WW them out if they aren't taunt. All these stallniggers complain about mons that 6-0 stall when all they have to do against these mons that "6-0" them is make plays, you know, the thing every other player in the game has to do.

>>31928749
Mold Breaker ignores Magic Bounce anyways so going sableye would be stupid in that scenario.

>>31928749
This so much. What makes it worse is that Stall players will tell other people to make plays or give up 1 or 2 spots out of six to beat Stall.

>>31928983
>foul play on the DD
Barring any Waterfall hax, I'm pretty sure Sab wins 1v1. At the very least, neutral Foul Play breaks sub.

>>31929011
Most mega sableye dont run foul play. If it does have foul play then I guess using that twice after the first dd is enough to cripple gyarados but then they basically lose their sableye. That being said I agree that anyone who says "x 6-0s stall!!" is a retard.

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What are the best teammates for Ash-Greninja?

>>31929143
Memes aside, Charizard X

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>>31929206
Wait what?
why

BASED SMOGON
A
S
E
D

S
M
O
G
O
N

>>31929011

The standard Sab runs Knock Off, not Foul Play

>>31921384
Probably doesn't need it, its been fine for 6 generations and didn't get an amazing buff recently it was just the best counter for everything around it

>>31927237
>( but desu ash greninja and megearba are fun to use, I'm kinda sad that they're not allowed in VGC especially magearna, even if she's probably probably broken in doubles )
>probably
Smogon has a Doubles OU format. Magearna is already banned from it.
>>31929206
Wait, doesn't Ash-Greninja struggle mightily with Tapu Fini? Doesn't Fini shit all over Xzard as well? Or is it to force Fini to come in repeatedly and eventually wear it down to the point where it can't stop shit?

>>31929979
>Or is it to force Fini to come in repeatedly and eventually wear it down to the point where it can't stop shit?
This.
I've used them together myself and it usually works pretty well since she doesn't have recovery.

>>31923598
>Trump's entire White House would be found guilty of high treason
A fundamental misunderstanding of just how much power he has right now
If he actually was guilty of high treason he could have sold us to the highest bidder the second he won the election just because you're a democrat doesn't make Republicans the devil and vice versa

>>31930056
If he or his cabinet are shown to have connections with Russia regarding ANY form of hacking (Which has been confirmed to have happened twice and attempted once by the CIA), then yes, they would be charged with High treason. No he could not sell us to the Highest bidder, because he is constantly being followed by the Secret Service and the CIA watches his every movement, it is part of their job, and yes they monitor most forms of his communication. Just because you don't understand how the Executive branch functions doesn't make retarded Bernie fags the devil and vice versa

>>31927092
kek. Reminds me of all those eeveeution teams I've run into when laddering.

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>>31921384
>Dugtrio is A rank OU
>gets Suspected before Greninja and MegaGross and Landorus, three omnipresent S-Rankers

Smogon's OU Council are literally retarded and so are 58% of their voters.

>mfw i voted no ban

>>31923044
>And there were 4 people who abstained.

Top kek

>>31929143
Mega Sableye, Chansey, Skarmory, Clefable, and Dugtrio. Also swap out the Greninja with a Toxipex.

>>31934944
>Clefable
Nice UU trash you got there, kiddo.

>>31934953
Dumbass.

I ran into a choice scarfed Pheremosa while ranking up, how much utility does it really have?

>>31935383
A lot. It allows you to run an attack boosting nature and thus get Attack or Special Attack boosts instead of speed. The snowballing that follows is impressive.

>>31935586
Okay, that's cool to know

>>31935383
the utility of outspeeding every single scarfer in the game

>>31925537
Mega Luke gets turn 1 (one) sanic speed now so no.

>>31930299
>hacking confirmed twice
You mean the insider leaks (rip Seth Rich), dumb Pedosta's phishing or is that a Weiner reference?

>>31921384
jeje

>>31935045
no you are. clefable gets obliterated by nearly every single major threat in OU

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>>31921502

>/vp/ calls smogon jerks for banning "muh bro's"

>guy on smogon probably prevented said ban

>What a fucking faggot

Never change

>>31941134
>/vp/ is one person
never change

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>>31921444
>They have not, however, actually played stall at a high level enough to realize how it can be quite complex to use as well
Stopped reading there.

>>31941367
t. someone that has actually played stall at a high level enough to realize how it can be quite complex to use as well

>>31941424
Ehh I got to 1600 using a copypaste team and I know fifty guys are gonna ">1600 >high level" me but I couldn't be bothered to keep playing after that point.
Half the matches are just "Oh, the opponent didn't bring a dedicated anti-stall team so I guess I win."
A quarter of the matches are "Oh, the opponent actually has a mon that threatens me but once Dugtrio kills it or it gets burned then I win."
A quarter of the matches are closer to 'fun' in the sense that I feel like the opponent actually has a chance to win, so I have to play somewhat intelligently, but it still ends up feeling like a 3v6 in my favor at the best of times.

t. Sand offense player.

>>31927092
Literally Reds team.