Duggy Suspect

>>31850846
COIL*

this is a children's game that has been taken far too seriously for far too long

get a new hobby

>>31850846
Stop calling them Duggy already

Given the chance, people will of course vote to ban it.

>>31850852
>how DARE someone have different interwsts than me

>>31850846
dugtrio is cancer, but m-sableye is worse

>>31850846
Got reqs and am voting ban, it's about time that Stall gets hurt after bitch and moaning about Hoopa in ORAS. These faggots complaining about how it invalidated Stall then say Duggy is fine because you can run Shed Shell on Magma Storm Heatran, you know, the really consistent Stall Breaker.

>>31850846
Thanks to it's Alolan form, I can never see Dugtrio without hair the same again

Oh time to get the reqs I guess.

>>31850846
I'm down for anything that remotely shits on the viability of stall

>>31853140
I know right. It looks bald and like it's missing something now

>>31850846
I'm a stall fag and this needs to go.

Also used it to some success in hazard offense, that 20 atk boost was godlike.

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If they wanted to fuck with stall, why not put Mega-Sableye instead, he seems the worst offender along with Toxapex.

>>31854094
Did someone play Gen 6 OU after M-Sable's ban? Was stall less broken then?

>>31850846
Why not just ban traping abilities?

>>31854179

For the hilarity of Diglett becoming OU.

>>31850846
I will be voting not a ban.

>>31854179
they're not expecting trapinch or diglett to be problems, and magnet pull only affects a small portion of available pokemon

>>31854196
Nah. At best it will get an analysis.

>>31850852
>Taken far too seriously
>Says this while being on /vp/

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>Dugtrio thread

>>31854126
It was literally Mega Medicham, the tier.

you guys will regret banning dugtrio when mega mawile is released.....

stall will die forever and I hope your happy killing the only other viable playstal besides hyper offense

>>31856011
>implying anyone actually likes playing stall
>or against stall for that matter

Was the small attack boost really enough to send it to ubers?

>>31856140
yes
Turned a bunch of 2/3hko's into 1/2hko's, important ones for stall.

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>>31856011
*teleports behind u*
nothing personell, kid

>>31850972
>interwsts

/vp/ is illiterate. Completely and terribly illiterate. I don't mean spelling something incorrectly here or there, or not knowing a quadrisyllabic word. I mean that this board, centered around a game that touts itself as helping young children read, cannot even spell the names of the majority of the monsters that are its subject. People will spell names of Pokémon and characters incorrectly on a regular basis, and be unable to comprehend even slightly more advanced sentence structures. This board is filled with people whose intelligence, when measured on a metric of the ability to read and comprehend written language, would be far below the average in any first world country, and arguably 4chan as a whole. Why is this? Is the absurd nature of the Pokémon series affecting your ability to read? Perhaps because Pokémon attracts autists (colloquial jargon so adequate in this situation,) we have people who spend more time memorizing charts than how to properly read them. However, people with autism actually typically score higher on IQ tests and reading comprehension tests, so it doesn't make much sense to label that as the reason. I'm completely astounded by the collective lack of knowledge that this board displays.

>>31856140
It wasn't
It got 4 new 2HKOs at most.

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>>31856212
A FUCKING LEAF

>>31854811

Honestly, suspect tests don't last nearly long enough and this FotM bullshit is what convinces everyone it's a good idea to keep shit like Mega Sableye in the meta

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>>31856212

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>>31853140
Personally the hair weirds me out. I kinda wish Diglett had whiskers instead of hair and Dugtrio formed it into three magnificent moustaches. Pic related, please excuse my poor photoshop skills.

>>31857915
>FotM bullshit
?

>>31858285
Flavor of the Month
basically a trend because a few people caught on to something being good

Not ban.
Forcing things to run Shed Shell instead of LEFTOVERS SLUDGE LIFE ORB CHOICE X AV :DDD that multiplr mons had was a blessing.

>>31856011
I can't wait to use M-Mawile in ScoliPass. There will be tears everywhere and it will be beautiful.

>>31858766
t. Stallfag

>>31856011

M-Mawile will be insta-banned as soon as it comes out

Heard some talk on Smogon over it and it's 100% going to happen

Sash Trapinch still does Dugtrio's job competently though. Tested it out on a stall team and it's hilarious.

>>31860347
Your third statement makes me less inclined to believe your first two statements

>>31860186
>Marowak used bonermango!

>>31860399
He's right, Mega Mawile beats Landorus-T, Smogon's precious baby, if Lando-T switches in after Mawile does

Thus it will be banned, because the healthy genie must not be infringed

>252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Mawile-Mega: 264-312 (87.1 - 102.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
>not a guaranteed KO

>Most Landorus are defensive
>0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Mawile-Mega: 204-240 (67.3 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>+1 4+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 264-312 (69.1 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>+1 4+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 137-162 (35.8 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
>play rough then sucker punch beat lando, have to rely on mind games to not die to it and even then you're only guessing

>Landorus forced to run offensive set to maybe OHKO mega-mawile

>Smogon doing anything that harms healthy genie

Put it together

>>31860456
>Landorus's Groundium-Z is reacting to trainer's z-ring!

Face it, in the z-crystal gen, it can easily overpower Mawile

>>31860456

Not to mention it completely wrecks stall

For reference, M-Mawile's most common set will be Adamant with SD/Play Rough/Fire Fang/Sucker Punch

>+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (94.7 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

>252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Sableye: 240-284 (152.8 - 180.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 373-441 (104.4 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 78-92 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO

Ash gren should've been suspected first, but the Jamvads have got to go. I'm voting ban.

>>31860482
And if Will O' Wisp becomes common, it can always use a Sub Focus Punch set.

>>31850846
Got 2703 COIL last night

Will be voting do not ban, because it severely hurts stall's viability. It's not impossible to play around currently, so I don't really see the problem.

>>31860591
>Will be voting do not ban, because it severely hurts stall's viability.

I wish the idiots in the Smogon thread were all this honest. It'd make things much easier.

>>31860591
>It's not impossible to play around currently, so I don't really see the problem.

The only way you can play around it in stall is by trying constantly to not kill a wall with something grounded, which is super impractical and completly kills momentum.

Duggy's only broken on stall IMO, so the best choice would be to either do a complex ban that makes duggy+M-Sable combo illegal or just ban the latter.

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>>31860347
>m-mawile getting banned when top lel is in ou

>>31860813
>implying Lele won't be banned too

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>>31856212

>>31860456
>earthquake doesn't ohko but nearly does
>literally just revenge kill it with anything, probably tapu lel most commonly

>>31861058
Or rocky helmet would kill Mawile

>>31860289
Nope. I build around Haxorus.

>>31861058
This
>metagross used bullet punch!
>tapu lele used probably anything!
>greninja used water shuriken!
>venusaur farted on it!
>scizor used bullet punch!
>buzzswole laughs at your pitiful death throe sucker punch thanks for the beast boost!

>>31850846
Sharing this garbage from the last thread, this is one of the faggots on the suspect thread arguing that Duggy is fine.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-433150626

>complains about offense team and copypaste teams
>literally copies ABR Stall without Weavile and makes the sets worse

I've never had any problems with Dugtrio.
Would someone care to explain why he's so hated?

>>31861739
fuck off monsieur pink

>>31861746
I just wanted an explanation, but glad your mother carried this little bitch around for 9 months.

>>31861739
For starters, Duggy is not a problem on normal teams, he's only a problem on the Stall archetype. Usually in competitive mons to have a balanced team, you need a single stallbreaker on your team to break opposing stall. This can be something like Life Orb Hoopa, Choice Band Tyranitar, etc. What Dugtrio does is after Stall either loses a mon to a stall breaker, or has something Eject Button Alolamola or Baton Pass Shedinja to pivot into Duggy, Duggy's Arena Trap prevents the opposing mon from switching out. Duggy has enough power this gen to kill most Stallbreakers after rocks, and kills every stallbreaker after two hits assuming he's running Focus Sash. I'd imagine you can guess what happens when you don't have a wallbreaker against 4 walls.

What people have been doing is stupid shit like having to use Shed Shell on Tapu Lele or Heatran, JUST for Dugtrio. Having this item in any other instance is stupid and bad and that mon has about 10 other items it could use that would be useful in more situations, but they NEED to run Shed Shell so that beating Stall is actually possible for that team. And that isn't very fun.

>>31861806
Thank you.

>>31861703
This replay gave me cancer, but there are occasional good parts in it.

>Monsieur Pink: you cant hard predict basically
>Latios, come back!
>Go! Landorus (Landorus-Therian)!
>Monsieur Pink sent out Sup...Taunt Me (Chansey)!

>Big Guy For CIA: why is it so hard for you to click amoonguss
>Big Guy For CIA: hurry up
>Monsieur Pink withdrew Sup Lando-Noob (Skarmory)!
>Monsieur Pink sent out Sup Volt-Tard! (Amoonguss)!

>Monsieur Pink was muted by Albert. for 7 minutes.

I'm glad to have this replay.

I'm surprised Duggy has lasted this long. I've used it on nearly every team since SM released.

>>31861885
I bet you used genesect in ou before it got banned again

>>31856140
+20 attack isn't small anon

>>31856011
Landorus-T exists.

>>31861806
>Run Eelektross wallbreaker
>Shits on Duggy

>>31858766
Problem is shed shell is consumable so it's a waste of a slot 80% of the time regardless if the team has dugtrio

>>31856212
tasty pasta

>>31861956
>run elektross
>are playing every other game 5v6 because you're running elektross

>>31861874
My favorite part is when the stallfag complained about iron head flinching, the offense player said, correctly, that none of his iron head flinches mattered, then the stallfag kept complaining about flinches anyways. Also
>plays stall where games go on for hundreds of turns
>complains about hax when if he had literally any other playstyle hax are less likely

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>>31856212

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>>31861703

>>31861703
That was painful

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Reminder that if you can't beat Stall with Dugtrio you need to git gud.

>>31862282
>"I like pink mons" likes this
kek

>>31862300
Is he the same "Monsieur Pink" from >>31861703? Because that would explain so many things.

>>31862341
Yeah that's his alt

>>31862282
Shed Shell Heatran loses to Quagsire and makes every game not against Stall a 5v6. The only people saying "Just run shed shell x" think the game is Stall vs Not Stall, and they only play Stall. It's not about "gitting gud", it's about how much you're willing to cripple your team so that your matchup against an archetype that has zero interaction with the opposing player is winnable. Then it becomes a shitty game of rock paper scissors, with No Shed Shell beating Shed Shell, Shed Shell beating Stall, and Stall beating No Shed Shell.

>>31862341
Yes, they're the same person.

>>31862359
The thing's that people argue that's trapping is not uncompetitive because it's part of the game and it doesn't remove skill completly (aka constantly prevening to get kills with grounded stuff).

Even then, what's exactly the difference between a legit gud strategy and a broken one? AKA something like DragMag and ScoliPass?

>>31862359
>>31862346
Yeah. In hindsight, his dickness was a dead giveaway.

>>31860591
>Will be voting do not ban, because it severely hurts stall's viability

Kek. That's not how it works you idiot. You don't keep something from being banned just because banning it might possibly hurt the viability of the playstyle it's most used with.

>>31861703
Link me to his post.

>>31862479
Specially when said playstile is not used by 95% of the whole ladder.

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/metagame/gen7pokebankou-1695.txt

>stall......................... 5.37629%

>>31862491
Go to the suspect thread and search for a dude named "i like pink mons". You'll recognize him instantly.

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>>31862508
>Go to the suspect thread and search for a dude named "i like pink mons".

Oh, that guy. It's pretty obvious you have a boner for Stall when your avatar is a picture of an evil-smiling Chansey.

>>31862019
>Implying Eelektross isn't a great wallbreaker anyway.

>>31862435
>Even then, what's exactly the difference between a legit gud strategy and a broken one
Legitimately, just opinion. I believe Duggy Stall is a broken strategy, but people retarded tools like pink believe it isn't. Dugtrio Stall isn't really "broken" per say it's just that it's unhealthy. Because now, so have a chance of winning against Stall, I have to run the item Shed Shell on my Wallbreaker. As I said before, Shed Shell is useless in every other scenario besides in the matchup against Dugtrio Stall. But if I don't carry Shed Shell, I lose the game. I objectively lose the game at team preview. That is not the sign of a healthy meta game, in my opinion.

>>31862491
Google "Smogon Dugtrio Suspect Test" and his name in the thread is "i like pink mons". You'll notice he ignores a lot of the valid points people made, makes tons of shitty suggestions to use trash mons to beat Stall, and is very dismissive of other people while thinking he is the God of mons.

>>31862508
>Specially when said playstile is not used by 95% of the whole ladder.

Then I hope you get stuck around the 1600, because on higher ladder it gets worse:
stall......................... 9.72693%

>>31862580
>http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/metagame/gen7pokebankou-1825.txt

>2017
>not running Shedinja stall and utterly cucking every Pheromosa out there

>>31862594
I don't think Pheromosa can even touch stall, specially when Toxapex is in almost allof their teams

>>31862594
Phero is already walled by Quag and Pex

>>31862564
I was asking because of this:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-suspect-process-round-2-dirt-suspect-tour-details-in-post-3.3595351/page-10#post-7243393

>"I don't see how sacrificing recovery and reliability is uncompetitive. If anything, that is competitive. Uncompetitive elements are things that literally remove skill from both players, so things like Evasion, Moody, Swagger (prior to nerf), Sleep spam (without the Sleep Clause), and OHKO moves are uncompetitive because you're mostly just relying on coin flips or even less."

>"Trapping is not uncompetitive because it's not restricting to both parties, and the restriction imposed upon the one party can be avoided with counterplay/items. Running Shed Shell is a competitive reaction to trapping."

>>31856212
lol fucking fag

>>31861703
>Medicham used Ice Punch!
>The opposing Sup Ferro-Noob lost 35% of its health!
>The opposing Sup Ferro-Noob fainted!
>Big Guy For CIA: uh oh
>Big Guy For CIA: someone is in a pickle

kek

>>31861703
Here's a replay of him getting completely assblasted by a Player who is literally 2 steps ahead of him.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-434044243

>>31862829
You sure it's him? I didn't see him talk like a dick there.

>tfw Gothitelle will never be unbanned

>>31862990
Someone should propose to unban the thing for a while if M-Sableye ever bites the bullet again. There's people who's even blaiming it for causing Goth to be banned in the first place (just like duggy), so I would see it happen again.

>>31862990
Gothitelle isn't banned, Shadow Tag is.

>>31862984
Looks like he got outplayed so hard he just ragequit instead of raging in chat and making himself look stupid

Is stall the reason why Hoopa got banned in Gen 6? Because back then Duggy didn't hit as hard as he does now, so it could've failed to revenge kill it.

>>31854196
>For the hilarity of Diglett getting banned to Ubers.
FTFY

>>31866413
I'm in it to see smogon asshats complain about diglett so those "diglett used mudslap!" Post actually become true

Other than that, I'm sad to see one of my favorite bros get banned because people want to ignore the true stall problem that is mega sab

>>31862282
I hate Stall fags. They are the most hypocritical people in competitive. They tell you to use Shed Shell Tran or other shit, but when you ask them to adapt their teams to HO threats, they smerg out and complain all the time.

>>31860456
Nigga over half the tier beats landorus are you retarded

>>31853140
For me it's the opposite. Dugtrio with hair looks so wrong to me it hurts.

>tfw stallfags will forever be discriminated against
>tfw I just want to play Pokemon how I did as a kid

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http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/issues-with-ou-suspect-testing.3596594

We did it, boys!

>>31869680
really gets your noggin joggin

>>31850846
>implying I want to
I'm pro-ban and they are going to ban it anyway, cba with this

>>31856212
I like this new pasta

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>>31869680
>http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/issues-with-ou-suspect-testing.3596594
>dude just instant ban everything
>Decided by the Council of Smucks

I can't get over how bad players are, that they can't beat these things. Stop using the same cookie cutter teams. Throw in some surpise moves, and yoy can beat top ladder easily.
I have never once lost to a dugtrio stall, or a mega metagross sweep. Stop removing our choices of mons. (Though i never used either anyway)

No one expects Superpower Goodra.

>>31854094
Breaking walls is much easier now with Z moves, M-Sable was a mon that survived by recovering through 3hkos, like Clef. There's also a ton more Fairy in the tier now.
Duggy can near effortlessly remove most wallbreakers in a revenge situation. And packing 2 or more means you eat shit vs balance and HO teams. It makes Stall matchup based, which is bad. That's the one thing they won't let Stall become.

>>31869680
He's right

>>31869680
Makes a lot of sense desu, I don't know why they haven't been doing this the whole time

just play vgc lol

>>31869680
This makes sense but ok the flip side I hate how UU bans were handled

>>31850852
You know it's time to stop when you ban half of the cast.

>>31871860
>it's a "I've never played a smogon format or understand how our why bans are done" episode
They should totally allow Mega Fug in PU.

>>31871905
Why not? I think it'll add a certain Jenny say "craw" to the meta, really spice things up

I don't know why these smogonites haven't tried it before

>>31869843
thats retarded, I hate the UU ban system, they don't even give time to the meta to adapt, they just ban whatever they don't like

>>31869115
>>tfw I just want to play Pokemon how I did as a kid

Autism even when young.

>>31871905
> understand how our why bans
Because don't have to counter Dugtrio if it's banned.

No, seriously. Did you play NetBattle? Do you remember how Smogon went around and banned Dugtrio, Tyranitar and Salamence for being "uncompetitive" (or whatever buzzword they use today)? Neither do I.

>Mega Fug in PU
Stupid hyprbole.

>>31872333
>Because don't have to counter Dugtrio if it's banned
I too love my Stallbreaker becoming not a Stallbreaker because now it has to run Shed Shell, and therefor missing out on 2HKOing anything on Stall.

>>31872713
Run one that isn't buttraped by Dugtrio or simply add another.
>b but I shouldn't be forced to change my team!

Then you're failing in the "meta game" portion.

Reminder that Dugtrio is significantly worse than its gen 3 version. What's the excuse for this "suspect test"?

>>31872841
>Run one that isn't buttraped by Dugtrio
Such as?

>>31872841
>Run one that isn't buttraped by Dugtrio or simply add another
Yeah, let's all just run something garbage like SD Gliscor. I too love playing 5v6 against any team that isn't Stall. Also
>run another stallbreaker
Glad to see you totally understand team building.

>>31872841
>run two stallbreakers so you have a chance at beating stall while being fucked in the ass by HO and balance

nice

>>31872874
If adding another stall breaker so Dugtrio alone doesn't ruins you is so undesired, then you're admitting that Dugtrio and stall aren't centralizing.

Metagaming 101.

You know what was ban worthy? Gen 4 Garchomp. You could run 4 checks to it and STILL LOSE TO GARCHOMP ALONE.

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>>31872926
>If adding another stall breaker so Dugtrio alone doesn't ruins you is so undesired, then you're admitting that Dugtrio and stall aren't centralizing
Excuse me? Having 2 stallbreakers so that you don't like to a single mon while having those two stallbreakers absolutely cripples your team against any other archetype, effectively making it a 4v6 w/two sacks against things like hyper offense? Not centralizing? Bruh. Having two Stallbreakers doesn't even assure a win against Duggy Stall, Duggy just makes a single read which it can easily do because the game lasts 100+ turns, and the other player has to play extremely safe as to not let Stall get any momentum. At the very least, you've assured me that you sure as shit won't be getting the reqs to vote.

>>31872873
CM Chandelure.

>>31873107
I sure do love having a pokemon on my team that's completely useless vs. anything that's not stall.

>>31873146
Then stall isn't centralizing enough to be worth of a ban.

>>31873346
>have to run something completely worthless in every other matchup so you don't auto lose to stall
>not centralizing
Bruuuuuuuh

>>31861703

The stall player was a terrible player and the balance player was a terrible person. Usually the other way around.

Duggy stall is so great that it makes like 10% of the meta. People in favor of the ban have no idea how to balance anything.

>>31873415
the same 10% that dominates top ladder, go away pinkmons

>>31873415

>1 of 5 playstyles
>1 of 10 teams on the ladder

This shows that stall is actually underpowered, but /vp/ will complain about it because they are retards that don't know what a stallbreaker is.

>>31873369
Please tell me you're trolling.

Here's how it works when something is broken:

>something is broken
>most players runs something
>players start fixing their team to counter something
>players trying to counter something still loses

Here's how it is now:

>something is strong
>most players aren't running something
>players don't see the need to try to counter something
>something completely destroys said unprepared players
>unprepared players wants something banned

Most high rated players ARE NOT running stall and Dugtrio. If it was broken, then how come it isn't the default team, or rather, the ONLY viable one?

This is the problem with modern Smogon. Banning should be restricted to obviously broken things, not just anything that you dislike. I've played stall for most of my life and this whining over an archetype that isn't even the best is so fucking annoying.

>>31873437
The problem's that stall get's waaaaay to many wins for their own good. They're in a very similar situation as ScoliPass right now.

>>31873485
>admits to being a stallfag
pottery

>>31873525

Scolipass is an inherently broken strategy though, whereas stall has been a part of the game since its inception, and has almost always been balanced, if not underpowered.

>>31873553
Yes and no. You could make SpeedPass teams since gen 3, but once Speed Boost Scolipede became a thing (which has more bulk & typing that Ninjask would ever hope for) they skyrocketed to infamy in no time.

The same thing can be applied to stall. It has always been annoying to face, but the complains about it got multiplied by 1000x when M-Sableye started to block Hazards, Status + Taunt like whoa. Slap it an Ability based trapper (Goth & Duggy), and you get yourself a massive controversy spawned from what used to be a very niche playstyle.

Both are beatable, sure, but you always feel that you're in a massive disadvantage if you don't carry what they're weak to, which is kinda tricky when you remember you also need something to tank hits from Lele/Phero/M-Metagross.

>>31873427
see
>>31873437