How much can nostalgia influence opinions on how good a game

>>31821440
It was a 10/10 the first time I played ir a few years ago.
It still is now.
It has everything a good pokemon should.
Frontier, competent AI, great gyms, great elite 4, great champion, even a great villainous team.
Plus the VS Seeker.

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replaying my HG right now, the nostalgia is good, specially when I'm free to go wherever I want and almost no cutscenes, but GOD the wild Pokémon level are so low, I'm at my 3rd badge and still find level 5 pokémon in the wild... grinding is pretty tough here.. still, one of my favorite regions ever... I'd go with 8/10

>>31821440
I don't know, I played it last November for the first time and it was just an incredibly solid Pokemon game. It never misses a beat. Last game to feel like an "old Pokemon game" if you understand that. Last feeling of your own adventure that you shape individually

Easily one of the best games. But the best

>>31821496
*But not the best

I can also understand why there is such a rift between people who like BW and Platinum

>>31821509
BW is the opposite of Platinum.
Too much focus on story that it sacrificed quality gameplay.

>>31821509
What do you mean? I really love both so much.

>>31821509

I like both, but they're quite different, while gen 4 focus on exploring and making your own gameplay, gen 5 is focused in the plot, but with a linear map and not much exploration... they're both good in their respective ways

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>>31821440
I like R/S/E but never bothered with the Frontier.
I didn't like Diamond/Pearl at all and as a result didn't bother with Platinum.
Hated B/W but liked B/W2 even though the back sprites of your pokemon cut me with all the jaggies regularly.
I still think OR/AS are the best pokemon games to date.

I also struggle to find people who agree with me on anything.

considering gen-wunners exist, i'd say it can greatly bland you to the flaws of a game.

>>31821440
I played it for the first time in 2013 shortly before X/Y came out and I thought it lived up to the hype for the most part. It's just a damn solid game. It's not perfect, no game in the series is, but it's definitely in the top percentage of Pokemon games.

>>31821473
>great gyms
>great elite 4
>great villain team

this is what OP was talking about. the gym leaders and elite four are nobodies, they have zero personality and most of them have about 3 lines.

and I refuse to believe that anyone could think that Team Galactic was in any way well-designed or well-written.

>>31821678
You must have played it on emulator, because on cart it's easily one of the worst games in the franchise.

>>31821539
but gen 4 was the gen with the most boring battles, barring RBY. I still don't understand how people are fine with an HP bar that takes upwards of 15 seconds to drain for mons above level 50.

>>31821709
>elite four are nobodies
That's the case for gens 1-6
What made them great was that they had great teams.
Mars and Jupiter had awesome battles too.

>>31821539
I'm a big fan of BW's gameplay and I feel like Platinum just doesn't cut it. I like the way BW feels all around way more.

>>31821717
No, I own every main series game.

>>31821440
To me, Platinum is just a case of "its okay" syndrome. What do I mean? Well, it does a lot of things "okay" (and better than what other gens did on that same thing) but not neccessarily better.

>The starters?
Okay.
>The rival?
Okay.
>The difficulty?
Okay.
>The Dex?
Okay.
>The music?
Okay.
>The postgame?
Okay. (HGSS had everything Platinum had plus another region)

And then for everything else, it's just not very good.

>The story?
Bad.
>The villain team?
Bad.
>Battles?
Bad.
>Region?
Bad.

So yeah. It's pretty much just an "okay" game all around, which means it is in fact much better than a lot of other Pokemon games, but not as good as a lot of others. Nostalgia is that extra push that puts it in people's favorite spot.

>>31821709
How is flint a nobody? He shows up in sunnyshore city and asks you to reignite a spark of excitement for battle in volkner. flint is one of the most fleshed out ellite four members other than lance, and the gen 7 ellite four.

>>31821977
Flint has a couple lines before you get to the Elite Four. That's hardly anything. Lance does an entire quest with you before you battle him.

>>31822001
that's why i excluded lance. Other than lance pre-gen 7 elite four were nobodies. what flint got is a lot more than most elite four members.

>>31822001
>>31822046
plus should lance even count as elite four? Because by the time he gets all this development he'd become champion.

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>>31821440

>>31821818
Gameplay wise, Platinum is superior since the AI is better and movesets are better.
The way you prefer a feel is simply opinion.

>>31821903
>difficulty
>okay
It had the highest difficulty outside of BW2 hardmode, which wasn't even unlocked from the start.

>>31821440
I played it a few years ago and it's my favorite game in the series. It still is.

>>31822081
Yeah, Lance's quest in the Johto games is just part of the standard Champion cameos the player character has along their journey.

HGSS was pretty good about fleshing out the Gym Leaders outside of their battles through their phone calls, rematches, and photo ops. Elite Four was never really given the same kind of importance until Sun and Moon though. There was the Lorelei sidequest in FRLG but I can't think of anything that stands out like that.

>>31821709
If you belittle them because of a retarded bias of course they're nobodies. Each one of them has a personality and are known for very specific reasons, they're just not as seen outside of their gyms/spots in the league as in games like BW. Saying they don't have a personality is straight up a lie.
As for the villainous team they have a lot of character, from the very competitive but reckless Mars to the careful but effective Saturn. I'd say it's one of the most well-thought antagonists, as opposed to the retarded muh branch chief who can't even stall a pair of kids properly.

>>31822268
Platinum was the first game where all gym leaders could be found outside of their gyms too.

>>31822167
Gameplay-wise, Platinum isn't superior, what the hell are you talking about? Everyrhing was slow as fuck, from the menus, to the moves, to the HP drain. Play a battle in Platinun and then play one in BW2, it's amazing how much more enjoyable they are.

And "the AI is better" is not an argument. Unless you have actual evidence that the AI in Platinum was better than that of gen 5, don't act like it's the truth.

>>31821493
>Not "replaying" Sacred Gold and Storm Silver instead
It fixes most everything wrong with HGSS.

>>31821440
7/10 is good.
I like Platinum a lot because I've nuzlocked it so many times.

>>31822268
>Each one of them has a personality and are known for very specific reasons
give some examples.

>>31822345
The most important part of the gameplay is the pokemon and trainers you battle, not fps or thr extra 3 seconds it takes for an HP bar to go down.
Gym leaders don't use the worst move possible against you in Pt.
The fact that Lenora won't use Retaliate 100% of the time once Herdier is out of the way is pathetic.
Play the games, then get back to me.

>>31822268
>As for the villainous team they have a lot of character, from the very competitive but reckless Mars to the careful but effective Saturn.
I honestly shouldn't comment about this because I don't remember anything about either of them, but Im calling a bluff. Not even Cyrus had that much personality.

>I'd say it's one of the most well-thought antagonists, as opposed to the retarded muh branch chief who can't even stall a pair of kids properly.
It's literally just a reskin of Magma and Aqua. Villain team leader wants to reshape the world, he has a bunch of grunts who aren't on the same page, they try to get the legendary Pokemon so it can help them carry out their goal. It's dull, it's boring, and it's uncreative. Flare was the same thing.

>>31822208
and even that is post game which according to >>31822001 doesn't count.

>>31822400
>Gym leaders don't use the worst move possible against you in Pt.
Can you prove this in any way? I have no memory of the AI in gen 4 being worse than the AI in any other gen (besides maybe 7)

>Play the games, then get back to me.
Im replaying Platinum and BW2 right now, anon. That's why Im noticing all of the flaws.

>>31822414
>I don't remember what happened but I'm going to crticize their dialogue anyways

>>31822414
To me Cyrus felt unnerving compared to Archie and Maxie. The two of them didn't understand what kind of power they were using, and other than their respective admin's line at the weather institute, their whole team was on board with either draining or drowning the world because they couldn't grasp how severe the effect would be. Their plan spiraled out of control because of their own ignorance.

Cyrus' intention from the start was to destroy the current world, and he created a cult by duping his members with vague promises of a world revolution. The admins themselves also all had different motives for following him, too, which is why they end up in different places after the Looker postgame.

I really liked the event content.
>Getting the Member Card, entering Canalave Hotel, and waking up on Newmoon Island to battle Darkrai
>Getting Oak's Letter, going to the end of Route 224 with the weird white rock, going all the way up Seabreak Path, finding Shaymin in the Flower Paradise, and showing it to the woman in Floaroma Town to get the Gracidea
>Getting the Azure Flute, returning to the Spear Pillar, playing the first few notes to the intro of the game, and appearing within the Hall of Origin where Arceus resides at the top of a massive staircase
>Getting the Secret Key to the Galactic Eterna Building to find the machines to change Rotom's Forme
>Getting the event Regigigas to open the Iceberg Ruins/Iron Ruins/Rock Peak Ruins to catch Regice/Registeel/Regirock respectively so you can get the level 1 Regigigas in the Snowpoint Temple
>Transferring a Manaphy Egg from the Ranger games, Darkrai/Riolu from Shadows of Almia, and Deoxys/Shaymin/Heatran from Guardian Signs
>Transferring a Pikachu with a Light Ball/Surf/Volt Tackle, Electivire, and Magmortar from Battle Revolution
>Transferring a Phione, Mew, and all of Hayley's trades from Ranch

Sinnoh was also fun to explore, with side locations all over the place.
>Old Chateau
>Wayward Cave
>Fuego Ironworks
>Solaceon Ruins
>Route 220, 221, and Pal Park
>Turnback Cave
>Snowpoint Temple
>Fullmoon Island
>Turnback Cave
>The second half of Victory Road and Route 224
>The entirety of the Battle Zone

The only thing I have a hard time with, nostalgia-wise is Gen I/II/III lacking the physical/special split. It completely changes the useability of a lot of Pokemon, not in terms of who's OU/UU/etc. but it just becomes a point in fact a lot of Pokemon just have shit movepools and are unusable.

Other than that, the games I loved when I was younger are still great; the ones that are shit aren't any better with distance between them.

>>31822414
Magma and Aqua were reskins of each other, Galactic was a different beast. Maxie and Archie were basically on the same level as their grunts in terms of information. Their teams are just clones of each other (Poochyena/Mightyena, Zubat/Golbat/Crobat), except Magma uses Numel/Camerupt and Aqua uses Carvanha/Sharpedo. Emerald adds a couple instances where Magma uses Baltoy and Aqua uses Wailmer, but it's only one or two times, while ORAS gives Magma Koffing/Weezing and Aqua Grimer/Muk, but it doesn't change that Magma and Aqua weren't that different from each other. They both think they're going to "help Pokémon" by getting rid of land/water, which is idiotic and shows just how little they actually understand the environment and what they're trying to do. It's also questionable how the methods to do these totally opposite things are apparently the same, like causing a volcano to erupt with the meteorite.

With Galactic, all the grunts believed they were working for a new energy source, while the higher ups thought that Cyrus was trying to obtain Dialga/Palkia to put them in power through using the Red Chain. But Cyrus is really in it for himself and plans to completely wipe the universe minus himself because he thinks that spirit is the cause of all strife in the world. He then wants to create a new world devoid of spirit, which in his mind is the perfect world. His underlings realize that his true goals are nuts. But you get dialogue from side characters later on that explain how he grew up alone without love from his family or peers, left by himself in rooms of machines, and it explains why he's the way he is.

The difference between Maxie/Archie and Cyrus is that Cyrus actually knew what he was doing and adequately prepared for it. The end of Platinum where he's trapped forever in the Distortion World is kind of poetic because it's basically the world he was looking to create. Generations actually outright acknowledges this.

Gens 3 - 5 were the pinnacle THE PEAK

>>31822440

Not the guy you responded to, but from what I can remember of Gen 4, the AI tries to be economical in dishing out damage. The opponent will use the best matched moves against you at first, but once you're in KO range they will try to KO you with the weakest move possible.

Example, if the foe Heracross can KO you with both Shadow Claw or Close Combat, it will use Shadow Claw.

I'm not sure that this is exactly what is happening, though. Can anyone else confirm this?

>>31823376
fucking this, really miss the events in gen 4 and the gen 5 ones are ok. GF should do them again. The stupid cutscene for Diancie in gen 6 doesn't count.

>>31823491
>The end of Platinum where he's trapped forever in the Distortion World is kind of poetic because it's basically the world he was looking to create. Generations actually outright acknowledges this.

No. Fuck all of that noise, and fuck that Generations episode.

The Distortion World is NOTHING like what Cyrus ever sought out to achieve in Platinum.

Cyrus wasn't looking for a lonely world with nobody, he was actively trying to create a brand new universe where everybody thought and acted the way he wanted to. The world was not the problem for Cyrus, that wasn't his enemy. Spirit was his enemy, not just from everyone else, but within himself.

He outright states it in the Distortion World that he despises his own emotions, and that he has no intentions of hiding from the world. He does not, and never has planned that.

He gets nothing from the Distortion World because: A) spirit still exists in the universe; and B) emotions still exist inside himself. Whoever wrote that Generations episode was a hack who completely derailed Cyrus's character and motivations.

Everything else you said was fine, but that last part is such a common belief among people, when it's in no way backed up by the actual game's script.

>>31824374
I liked Cyrus but never put that much thought into him. You sound astute. I'm basically just replying to Press F for you in case they do a DPPt redux. I can easily see them derailing this element of Cyrus for the sake of "more accessible" storytelling.

>>31823376
>Getting the Azure Flute

Wasn't technically ever an event.

I also hate events in principle. Not the stuff that happens in-game. That's all great and we need more of it. I mean the distribution and time windows and as in the Azure Flute instance the fact that GF can just decide not to do it thus wasting the time programming something you have to cheat to see.

Everything should be inside the game and unlockable with effort, period. Like the original Regis.

>>31824387
Fuck, you have no idea how much I'm afraid of that.

And the sad part is, I used to be VERY excited about the idea of a DPPt remake. Until that Generations episode happened, and made me aware of the possibility of the writers falling into the "Cyrus is happy in the Distortion World" meme.

Even though Cyrus's very last line in the entire game is him saying he's not stopping his evil plans, and this was merely a set back.

Cyrus is, to me, the most interesting and (dare I say it) complex Pokémon character, but he's one who gets very commonly misinterpreted by the fandom (and by actual writers, it seems).

It's certainly not helped by the fact the Cyrus from DP is very different from Pt, so the two's characterization tend to merge together in people's consciousness.

It's a villain like Cyrus that makes me long for a more complex telling of Pokémon stories (not "grimdork and gritty", just a more fucking in-depth look at his character).

>>31821903
>le kanto is postgame meme
eks fucking dee

>>31824404
Well you can do at home distributions through your router with the files for the original Wonder Cards, items, Pokémon, etc. You can even download the Ranger Net content for Shadows of Almia and Guardian Signs that could only be received through Wi-Fi but is now shut down. If you want to access the content you once thought was lost, you can do it now as closely as possible to the legitimate experience.

>>31824477
How do?

>>31824446
I'm kind of the odd man out on this weird insistence, but I think the Team Rocket in HGSS is completely different, thematically, from the Team Rocket in GSC.

It's possibly partially my headcanon, but I think the Rocket Admins in GSC were all sort of 'anonymous' Grunts who took their opportunity with the group collapsing the way it was to take control of subfactions of the organization. When Team Rocket does the broadcast to find Giovanni from the Goldenrod Tower, the total sense of anarchy that conveyed to me, as a kid, has stuck with me my entire life and I always try to capture it in any creative projects/stories I've written. When you couple that with the fact that Giovanni never came back, leaving you to speculate pretty much anything you want, it was just fucking formative.

What's happened since? The Rocket Admins all got defined characters and personalities, taking away from the "rabid dog" element of Rocket in GSC, the allusion in FRLG that Silver is Giovanni's kid is bluntly spelt out, and we find out why Giovanni never came back rather than getting to make our own conclusion.

It's simpler, lamer, storytelling.

>>31824671
https://github.com/polaris-/dwc_network_server_emulator/wiki/Nintendo-DS-Download-Content

>>31824708
While I can see where you're coming from, I think you could still make what HGSS tried to do with the Team Rocket enclave, and still keep that same air of "nameless grunts trying to call the shots".

I can't really get into any details here, since I haven't spent that much time focusing on the generation 2 story as I have with generation 4. I literally could not tell you any of the Rocket Admin's names in HGSS, and I've always thought the story in GSC to be very lackluster (along with the entire game, but that's another story altogether).

A lot of Pokémon's stories you do have to rely on headcanon and prying meaning from small nuggets of information. Maybe that's why Galactic attracts me so much, since they were the first team to actually have a rather complicated goal (in Platinum, anyway), and the game they were on gave just enough information to pry out a ton of meaning from it.

>>31824708 (cont)
There's a lot "at stake" for Team Galactic, come to think of it. If they're willing to do an exhaustive rewrite the way they did with Aqua/Magma, you can see a few elements being written out.

- The cluelessness of lower-level grunts that don't really understand Cyrus' motivation could be written out to make them more threatening.
- The varying motivations of the various commanders for being a part of Galactic at all (and that plays a really cool part in terms of how they all act in the post-game) could hopefully be expanded on, but could also be eliminated.
- Charon showing up at all is a question mark, but his relationship to Galactic as a whole was something that had a lot of implicit elements to it (I don't think we ever really understand why the other Commanders hate him so much, which left me to sort of infer their personalities in terms of how they treat someone lesser than them) that could be easily be explained by some prior incident that undoes a lot of potential for headcanon (headcanon can be obnoxious when insisted on as literal truth online, but that sort of creative opportunity can be what endears you to a franchise).
- I think the only unquestionable "pro", for me, for a remake is that the whole Red Chain thing would be spelt out and shown to the player a lot more literally. It felt like "scrapped content" in the context of its presentation in the original games.
- Another pro is Distortion World might possibly be turned up to 11.

>>31824753
>I've always thought the story in GSC to be very lackluster
I mean, fuck you, buddy, but otherwise I get the sense we find the villainous team plots interesting for similar reasons.

>I literally could not tell you any of the Rocket Admin's names in HGSS
Neither can I. I've used that as a criticism of HGSS' Rocket, and contrasted it against the fact all of Galactic's commanders are easy to remember visually/namewise, easy to identify, and all have unique personalities that you can probably name at least one thing about.

>>31824708
>It's simpler, lamer, storytelling.
This is what I tell people when they say that gen 7 has the best story in the series.

Digesting everything to you and not leaving anything to imagination isn't a good video game story, it's a boring one.

>>31824760
>The cluelessness of lower-level grunts that don't really understand Cyrus' motivation could be written out to make them more threatening.

I almost want to say I'm confident this wouldn't happen, if only because Pokémon games aren't interested in making the Grunts look threatening in the slightest. Removing the ignorance would only make Cyrus seem less threatening, and turn Galactic into "every single other Team with useless Grunts for little to no reason".

>I don't think we ever really understand why the other Commanders hate him so much
We kind of do. Charon is only in it for the money, as well as being one of the newer members to gain some recognition. Basically, the other Admins realize he's not in this game because he believes in Cyrus's vision, and would simply sell them out when it became profitable to him.

>the whole Red Chain thing would be spelt out and shown to the player a lot more literally

I have a certain headcanon about the Red Chain, and exactly how Cyrus could simply recreate it at will though scientific means. In the Galactic HQ lab you find multiple large tubes, and several scientist being absolutely horrified by whatever it is they've done inside that laboratory.

My theory is simply that: Cyrus had the scientists all clone the Lake Trio as many times as he wanted, and tear out the jewels in their tails to create his Red Chain. Cloning Pokémon is an established thing in the games' lore, and we later see the Lake Trio still being active despite Cyrus having taken out their gems, so there is a lot of implication you can take from there.

And while I'd normally say such a thing was too dark for a Pokémon game, SM did give us quite a lot of dark story elements.

>>31824781
I'm just saying, a lot of GSC felt like random and disconnected events.

(cont)

>>31824781
>>31824839
You get the Slowpoke Well, then the Lake of Rage stuff, and neither seem to mesh all that well. When the story actually gets interesting with the Radio Tower takeover, it simply ends. Team Rocket is defeated, and there is simply nothing afterwards. Not even in Kanto.

I enjoy your interpretation of the events, and it does help me see the story in a new light, but I'll still have to call it one of my least favorite stories.

>>31824783
While I liked SM's story, I can definitely see your point. There really wasn't a lot of mystery involved, or at the very least, it wasn't particularly subtle about revealing its intentions.

Lusamine was probably the most interesting aspect, since it's left vague on just how much of Nihilego's influence actually fueled her thoughts and actions, but that's about it.

While I still rank SM's story as being quite up there in terms of Pokémon, it does have its flaws and shortcomings (but the same goes for every Pokémon game, so make of that what you will).

>>31824783
Gen 7 made a few critical changes that set the game up as a storytelling "platform" that works for a multi-gen franchise like Pokemon.

Taking the Gym Leaders out of Gyms, a sort of confining characterization, and giving them more in terms of personality and interaction with the region
a. sucks because it limits what you can do as a fan in terms of fanfiction/etc. but
b. lets the anime use these characters the way they now are, as a gang in a slice of life, put them in a more critical position in the card game as highly-sought-after holorare cards, and save manga writers the time thinking up a suitable personality for them. basically, GF's taken on a lot of the "creative burden" at the start so stakeholders in other areas of the franchise don't have to.

Another thing its done well is leaving opportunity for kids to run away with their creativity. I think there's no doubt that something like the golf course not being present in the game is cut content, but I'm willing to argue that inaccessible cave near the water area you fight Totem Wishiwashi in was never meant to be fleshed out. That teasing of an accessible cave is reminiscent of Bill's backyard. We're not 8 years old anymore, so we don't know what's going on on the playground, but I bet kids are bullshitting each other about how many times you have to beat the Elite Four to get access to that cave.

I'm also willing to make the argument that I don't think that those empty areas in the cities are meant to be obvious hints to a SM sequel - i.e. they're not self-evident obvious proof of Pokémon Stars. Rather they serve a dual purpose of
a. letting little kids wildly invent their possible purpose(s)
b. leave dangling threads for future directors to do what they want with if they ever revisit Alola, either as a remake or a sequel. But they're not inherent Chekov's Guns, and we might never see them fired.

>>31824855
>When the story actually gets interesting with the Radio Tower takeover, it simply ends. Team Rocket is defeated, and there is simply nothing afterwards.

That's actually why I like it. "It's such a unfulfilling ending it's actually good" will sound like bullshit if you're not already on board, but I beat Pokemon Gold for the first time when I was 10 years old.

Up until then, every story I'd ever read, every show I'd ever watched, was always neatly told, with a straightforward, satisfying solution*. Video games in particular, especially when you look back on ones for the NES/SNES and GB/GBC.. this lack of resolution is uncommon and definitely without precedent at my point in my life.

I agree with you. Everything seems disconnected. And my god what a fucking anticlimax once it finally gets going. But that story was what graduated me from, you know, simpler children's stories, to honestly, a pretty complex narrative for a kid to appreciate.

* This is a lie. There is a Beatrix Potter (i.e. Peter Rabbit books) story called The Tale of Mr. Tod that has a lot of bizarre similarities to Pokemon GSC that I realized when I was drunk af a few weeks ago.
- It's a "sequel" to the Peter Rabbit stories. You see Peter Rabbit again, but he's older, narrated in a way that he's a more 'distant' character than the immediate relatable protagonist of the story, and you get the sense that if he's grown up, so have you. (Compare to Red.)
- The titular character of the story gets into a fight with another animal, which is the climax of the story, and the entire narrative ends by saying "the two animals are still fighting and we never find out who wins". (Bizarre anticlimax without precedent in the stories, and compares to Pokemon GS refusing to identify what happens to Giovanni, who while not the main character of the story, obviously, is a persistent "when will he show up" for a lot of the Team Rocket narrative.)

>>31824918 (cont w/r/t the Peter Rabbit thing)
- There's some other elements in common I won't expound on because if you never read the story as a kid it's not gonna mean anything to you, but e.g. the "dark" aspect of Team Rocket chopping off Slowpoke Tails is similar to the fact a badger kidnaps a bunch of baby rabbits and the idea it might kill and eat them is presented as a really gut-wrenching thing. Again, this story is meant for kids. And it's not cringe-y in a "mindfuck kids" way, it's just a very blunt way of showing the reality of the world that a kid just won't be used to up until that point. (There's nothing similar to Slowpoke Tails in RBY).

I think, possibly, Pokemon GSC and this story have in common that they're a sort of "bildungsroman"/coming of age story for a little kid. It's hard to remember because only a few years later most kids go through puberty and that's a whole other, bigger mess, but there's a smaller, yet somehow darker, loss of innocence you go through immediately before that. I think both these stories pair with that, really, really, well.

>>31824944
All this is essentially my defense of Gen 2. I don't know how to justify it for an adult audience, but for me at the age of 10, fuck. There's a reason I'm still following the franchise along 17 years later and it's like a junkie buying a shitty drug over and over hoping to one day again get that same high that originally got them so goddamn hooked.

>>31824918
>>31824944
I played GSC at around the same age, but I can see where you're coming from.

I do agree that an "unfulfilling ending" can be really good (Seinfeld was practically built on these for a good chunk of its run, and I loved that show), I just don't see it in GSC.

But, hey, different strokes and all that. I honestly don't think any Pokémon game is BAD, just ranging from "mediocre but enjoyable", to "really good". And GSC/HGSS doesn't even fall in the lowest spectrum, since I absolutely love the feel and atmosphere of Johto.

With that said though, your interpretation of the generation 2 plot has given me a new appreciation for it. And though I'll always prefer a more straightforward narrative, there's nothing inherently wrong or awful about a different kind of story. Maybe I'll boot up one of the games and give it a second whirl to experience it under a different light someday.

>>31822414
What the fuck? You said it yourself, you shouldn't comment on it but you talk as if you literally never played the game. Cyrus is insane and cynical, and the team itself seeks a new order but the boss thinks of scraping all signs of human race from it. Again, you're belittling the game for no reason at all, which makes me think you have a retarded bias even more. This had been only the second time they used the same concept, but executed it differently. Not a lack of creativity at all.

>>31822369
>Roark is the young trainer son of another gym leader who can be found working hard at the Oreburgh mine occasionally
>Gardenia is a girl who likes a challenge but won't admit that she's scared very easily by things like ongoing rumors about the Old Chateau
>Fantina is a foreign trainer whose expertise in battle not only earned her a title as a gym leader but also makes her a well known in the world of pokémon contests
>Maylene is a young prowess who in spite of her age works very hard but is also very humble and praised among the other gym leaders.
>Crasher Wake is a very experienced wrestler who clicks very well with Maylene because of his passion for training, has no problem leaving his position at the gym to protect his city.
>Byron is the gym leader father to a fellow leader who can often be seen training at Iron Island.
>Candice is a very outgoing girl who not only has an interest for fashion but also a good challenge in terms of battling.
>Volkner is an uninspired gym leader whose spark has been lost until he's challenged by you, a gifted trainer
>On top of this, all gym leaders can be found outside of their gyms in the aforementioned places at least once. Roark at the mine, Gardenia at the Old Chateau, Fantina at the contest hall, Maylene training on the snow storm route and at the Snowpoint pokémon center, Crasher Wake leaving the Veilstone pokémon gym and around Pastoria city during Team Galactic incidents, Candice at the Snowpoint Temple and Volkner at the lighthouse. I believe Byron is the only exception to this. They can also be found at the Battleground Café for light conversation amd a rematch.
>All this information taken exclusively from the game only, since I didn't watch the DP season of the anime much at all.
So yeah, when you're saying trainers like gym leaders have no personality you're talking out of your ass.

>>31825138
Whoa, friendo. I like DPPt's Gym Leaders, too. I like Kanto's Gym Leaders, and Johto's, and Hoenn's, too. I wasn't calling all the Gym Leaders shit. I was suggesting that they've done a substantially better job of making the characters more thoroughly characterized. I'm sure you can recognize the difference between what's been done with the GLs vs. what's been done with the Trial Captains.

>>31825181
Yeah, but that's not the point at all. No one fucking cares about a game where the gym system was replaced for something way shitter. The point is the gym leaders do have personality and there's no reason to say otherwise.

>>31825222
Gym Leaders are tied down by a singular primary goal. Sure, you see Roark outside of the Gym, but he's outside of his given geographic point where he's meant to be standing in the middle of his Gym to give you a badge.

Whether this really is as the resulting execution's been, you haven't seen a lot of creativity with how GLs are used. Remember, at this point Pokemon is a multimillion dollar franchise that's a lot more than just the games. The GLs weren't serviceable in the anime, not really being used in the cards, and were not reappearing very often - and then, even when they were, it's been a sort of "welp, this has been a fun cameo but I really ought to return to my Gym!"

Acerola is a good example in that she's a Trial Captain, and then a member of the Elite Four, close to Nanu, involved in events w/r/t Aether House, shows up multiple times in different locations. If you wanted to be stubborn with me right now you could say she's tied to the Abandoned Supermart, but honestly? Not really.

I don't know GF's thought process, but compare the way they've felt comfortable having someone like Looker appear again and again and again with someone like Misty, who's a fan favorite and has a characterization in FRLG/HGSS about wanting to travel the world.. not at all doing so.

>>31825181
You don't even have to look at Trail Captains. Just look at other games in the series. For example, Hoenn. The first Gym Leader you see is your father, instantly making him more memorable than any of the Sinnoh Gym Leaders. Sinnoh tried, I'll give it that. All Gym Leaders get a little screentime outside of their Gyms, but ultimately fails. The reason for that is none of them really matter. They're pretty irrelevant. They don't play any part in anything. For example, Kanto had Giovanni. Hoenn had Norman and Wallace. Unova's entire cast of Gym Leaders is involved in the plot. Kalos had Korrina, a few others to a MUCH smaller degree. All of these have parts in story and are somewhat relevant. This does not apply to Sinnoh. All of them just exist. They're just there. And on a subjective note, I think they're the worst designed ones, even worse than Johto ones.

Ultimately, only Volkner left even a little impression on me with his involvement with Flint and E4. Even that wasn't comparable to any other Gym Leaders I mentioned, because this takes place AFTER you beat the main antagonist.

>>31825331
I disagree with a lot of what you're saying but I'm not going to have time to follow up with a response.

I would point out, though, that Kalos' Gym Leaders are probably the worst off of anyone. I'm replaying XY right now and they obviously tried to go all out with the Gyms themselves - but I doubt most people will be able to remember, what, for example, the structure of the first gym was (it's a giant spider web with dew drops), and the Leaders themselves are completely immobile and not at all fleshed out.

Do you know anything about Ramos other than that he's old? Probably not. Neither do I, and I just beat him a few days ago.

>Huge ass walls of text

Holy shit you guys just fuck already

>>31825357
I can say that for Sinnoh Leaders too. Do you know anything about Maylene other than she's young and likes fighting?
I'm not going to defend most of them, because they really are pretty bad, but they're in no way or form worse than Sinnoh ones. Korrina left a lasting impression with her involvement with Mega Evolution. When I said "others on a lesser degree", I was referring mainly to Clemont. He gives Shauna the device that helps you out later on, and is the one who made Super Training a thing. That's a lot more to do with the plot than any of the Sinnoh Leaders.

Structure of the Gym isn't really what we're talking about. It's the Gym Leaders. For the record, I remember all of the Gyms because I really liked them. Leaders, no, but the Gyms were pretty nice. This applies to most Gyms from most regions. Only Johto had just outright bad Gym designs, and even they are memorable because they're the only simple ones.

>>31825331
Gym Leaders are supposed to be central figures in Pokemon, yet, even if you remove all of Sinnoh Gym Leaders, it won't affect anything in any meaningful way.

>>31825254
And your point is? You can elaborate all you fucking want on how much gym leaders are a waste of potential but that still doesn't mean they don't have personality. It's bullshit.

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>>31821440
Every game that runs on Gen4 is slow and nearly unplayable today. That should be the case, but HGSS is still the most beloved game in the franchise (it's not my favorite, but majority of the fanbase would say its their favorite). Platinum is a solid game, but not the best. Top 5 yes, but not Top 3.

>>31825422
>Maylene's father is a gambling addict to contrast her young but responsible personality

I wonder how that would be approached if they ever decide to revisit Sinnoh since they can't have any explicit gambling in the games anymore.

>>31821440
A lot, actually. I thought HGSS and GSC were the pinnacle of the series. Then I replayed every game and realized that I found RSE to be superior in most aspects.

It's still my favorite game of the series and I started in gen 1. Besides the HM and slowness, there's not much I dislike about. It was also the last game that had any semblance of difficulty, at least with the Elite Four. The gyms were pretty easy from what I remembered.

The only thing gen 5 got on it is battle speed and PWT. Personally think gen 5 is worse than gen 6.

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>>31821440

Really good game
The best game for my

>>31825828
You're incredibly stubborn. You very well know the point that's being made but you just refuse to meet halfway.

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>>31830341
+

>>31830584
That was a really nice touch that I keep hoping they add back into the newer gens, especially since now you can breed to pass down most Pokeballs.

>>31821440
I didn't play 4th gen until 2012 I think and they're my favorites. It's almost like taste is subjective

>>31821717
why would it be better on emulator?

Defog
Waterfall
Surf
Dive pool
Cut
Fly
Rock smash
Strength

>>31821440
I wanted to make a thread about how this game has the most roaming legendary Pokemon (AKA the worst game mechanic in all of Pokemon) and it wouldn't allow it because it was the same pic as yours OP. Still, Platinum's probably the third best Pokemon game.

>>31831056
you can speed it up

As far as games as a whole go, no one Pokemon Game is a 10/10.

Even as far as Pokemon Games go I don't think any of them are a 10/10 they all have their individual failures and successes

>>31830427
How? It wasn't even the point of discussion to begin with. It's not relevant.

>>31824783
Simple=/=poor

SM's story is a very simple one about family and friends. However, it's done in an engaging way with an interesting group of characters.

Pokemon stories often toss out good ideas without ever developing them so it is nice to see SM fully develop plotlines and characters.

>>31828626
They'd probably just make him a random bum.

Also, speaking on DPPt, the games have a lot of small tidbits of character that can be preened out but you gotta dig for it. I'd like to see them expand on the ideas more, especially of Cynthia and Cyrus being opposites.

>>31834993
I actually liked that aspect of some of the older games, where you find out about the important named characters by talking to NPCs or later through checking the TV. The Fame Checker was a nice way to keep all those pieces of trivia on hand too in FRLG.

>>31822046
>Other than lance pre-gen 7 elite four were nobodies.
Other than, you know, Malva, who had been announcing the news for the entire game thus far, and was revealed to have had Team Flare sympathies.

>>31822360

Do romhacks fuck with cheats much? I've always wanted to try either Emerald or Platinum/HgSs rom hacks that fix things like a lacking physical/special split or the shitty level curve and using cheats once in post game/mon generators to get battle ready mons for the Frontiers once I'm done with the main game.

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>>31821440
ALL Pokémon games are a 7/10 at best.

I won't argue whether or not the game was good, but it was the first one I played and I liked it

>>31834249
Instead of criticizing any actual game design decisions, you criticize the speed. Apparently, it's one of the worst games in the series because despite having a ton of good design decisions compared to most games in the series, it's "slower", so that makes it worse than all of them.

Fucking ADD kids needing constant stimulation. Why even play RPGs.

>>31831093
Tropius
Gyarados
Gyarados
Tropius (and you mean Rock Climb)
Tropius
Tropius
Gyarados
Gyarados

>>31835620
I wanted to say that being forced to keep hm slaves on hand is shit gameplay but then I remembered that trying to actually raise a full party of pokemon pregen 5 is fucking retarded.

>>31821440
It's Pokemon basic.
Nothing particularly outstanding or special but it still suffers from the problems and downgrades of gen 4 so as a whole I would rate it a solid 4/10

And as for your question?
A lot, especially for Plat.

>>31835600
>Fucking ADD kids needing constant stimulation. Why even play RPGs.

Anon, there's a difference between performance speed and progression speed.
In terms of progression the Gen 4 games are fine they go at a decent pace bar the constant backtracking.
In terms of performance it's one of the slowest Pokemon games especially back when we were coming out of generation 3 that was lightning fast and at 60fps.
Not to mention there is a small yet noticable and consistent frame drop in larger cities like Hearthome and Goldenrod for some reason.

Now if the Gen 4 games performed like gen 3 there would be no problem but as it somewhat jarring as well as boring.

As for this
>Why even play RPGs.
I don't think you're very accustomed to RPGs if you think Gen 4 is an acceptable speed for one.

>>31836033
While the performance was ass, it didn't affect my enjoyment of the game significantly. I've played and enjoyed N64 games with worse frame rates.

>>31836100
That's because they're N64 games at the dawn of 3D video games in the 90s. This is a predominantly sprite based game that's as slow as molasses for no particular reason in 2006 on a system that can handle N64 games with ease.

>>31836033
I agree with this. And i fucking LOVED diamond, and i heard that PLat was actuallly faster than dim and pearl. But after playing black, or even Heart gold, which was the same gen, plat just feels sooooooo slow. The combat moves, the walking, and above all, the text. it just kills it for me. even playing red/blue gen 1 doesnt feel that slow even if it was, works better, but in this, its tedious feeling. Grinding and training just becomes more cumbersome. What pisses me off the most is this is true at teh HIGHEST speed, and theres still a normal, and a slow option. WHO EVER SELETED THOSE? Sadists? THe sloths from zootopia?

>>31836193
>and i heard that PLat was actuallly faster than dim and pearl.
By a small amount. It's only really noticeable if you were paying close attention to DP in the first place if not then it'll seem just as slow.

It's also worth noting that the framedrops were exclusive to Platinum and HGSS. DP didn't have that oddly enough.

Oh yeah and input lag in the Underground, can't forget that bullshit.