"Primarina will never move to C+ in OU" /vp/ said :^)

Reasoning: Primarina checks similar Pokemon that Fini does, but is much more offensively inclined. It has gotten a little bit of usage in SPL, and with Specs it's very strong, being able to 2HKO AV Growth with Moonblast and nearly OHKO Metagross with Hydro Pump. It's niche, but a great replacement for Fini on more offensive oriented teams.

>>31800861
>Shedinja
nice
I have one I've been using to corner primal kyogre

How on earth are Azumarill and Alolan Muk categorized in the same rank as Necrozma, Diggersby, Primarina, and... Shedinja? Of all things?

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>>31800930
>why do my bros have to be associated with girly shit
your tears are delicious

>>31800930
>>31800872

>>31800958
Good bait

>>31800963
Doesn't explain Necrozma, Diggersby, and Shedinja. Those all seem way more gimmicky and random than Azumarill, which is a mon that is proven to pull its weight, and Alolan Muk, which has shown very quickly that it's useful.

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>>31800967
>if I don't agree with it it's bait
this meme needs to die already

>>31800930
Azumarill basically lost a shitton of its sets because of Fini and and bunch of offensive threats. A-Muk was always mediocre but it was good at trapping Lele but now that Lele isn't even S rank anymore it's even worse

It feels good

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It doesn't surprise me. This thing hits HARD. It's basically "show me your switch-in, I don't see it" the Pokémon.

>>31800989
>ignoring the points presented in the post
>singling out one of the mons in an attempt to provoke a reaction
It was textbook bait. He didn't reply to the post with any substance, his only intent was to bait a reaction.

>>31800994
That makes sense. I felt like Fini and Azu didn't share any niches, so I assumed one wouldn't affect the other's usage (and I've even seen teams using both Azu and Fini.)

>>31801027
First anon also included Primarina when the explanation was literally the first post, so I get why it felt like bait.
I agree that Azumarill and Diggersby shouldn't really be in the same rank, though.
(Also the list isn't complete, I cut some of them)

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>>31800861
>check Smogon thread for that list
>Pokémon blacklisted: Gosilopod, Heracross

>>31801114
Golisopod is just bad. Heracross is okay but why would you ever use it when you have Mega-Prinsir, Pheromosa, Buzzwhole etc.?

>>31801133
But why ban all discussion on them?

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>>31801133
>Buzzwhole

>Shedinja in OU
>tfw Wonder Guard is just that good

>>31801141
because there is no point
they are completely and utterly outclassed and offer nothing over the other options anon mentioned

>>31801143
That's not the worst one, I know a guy who keeps calling it Buzzlord

>>31801114
They will blacklist Pokemon from discussions if they inevitably move things off track. Golduck and Mandibuzz are blacklisted from Ubers discussion for example.

>>31801155
But, why BAN discussion on them? Why make it so all posts about them get deleted on sight?

>>31801169
>Buzzlord
that's actually fucking amazing
>Guzzlord isn't called Guzzwhole

>Liking Pre-oparina

>>31801171
Probably because people where try to convince themselves and others that they are objectively good, when they are simply outclassed. I don't know about Heracross, but the Golisopod and Decidueye threads were pretty bad.
>>31801143
FUG I NEVER DO THAT SORRY

does anyone have a link to where i can see the rest of the ranks?

i cant find it

>>31801222
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-viability-ranking-thread.3590726/

>>31801171
Imagine owlfags but with a different pokemon

>>31801113
If anything I think Diggersby is a bit better than Azumarill, if only because it's much harder to switch into, especially if you run stall or slower balance teams. Neither is very consistent though.

>>31801196
>>31801245
>owlfags
Oh, I think I get it then. I never would've thought a Pokémon as cool as Heracross would have owlfag-tier fans though, it's sad to hear.

>it's another episode of /vp/ is shit at competitive
Who would have thought!?

>>31801149
It walls just about every Tapu not carrying HP Fire, Stone Edge, or Brave Bird

>>31801256
>owlfags
Owlfags don't exist. It's been one guy falseflagging about it, I know this because the guy had said in one of the leak threads that he would start doing this if the leaks were real.

People who actually like the thing don't really care if others like different starters for the most part. Golisopod fans (and Decidueye fans) in the "banned from smogon" sense are people who insist that because they got a KO with them they're good. It's similar for any popular one like Incineroar too, since there are so many people trying to push it over Arcanine when Arcanine is flat out better, or Decidueye over any other better grass type. Golisopod has good stats and an excellent movepool, but the ability is too unfriendly for a bruiser filled metagame like this. It can't do shit despite hitting like a truck because the best move it has is bug type and it can't take any boosting moves lest it exit. People kept insisting it's good and asking for help with movesets and such for it so smogon banned them talking about it at all.

>>31801434
I laughed.

>>31800987
shedinja stall is gay.

GAY.

azu could probably rise, though. I'd put money on people experimenting with it more soon and finding out how solid it is again in better detail. it thrashes the best water resist in the tier, tapu fini, after all.

>>31801580
I guess that's nice? Why tho
If you mean the owlfag thing it's pretty obvious. Identical clone posts, exact same typing style, etc. It's like the boxart guy.
If you mean the smogon stuff, they don't like discussing things they've already deemed unviable, like Golisopod or Decidueye.

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>>31800861

>>31801245
>>31801256
Fuck. Off. Stop claiming that falseflaggers are owlfriends. Owlfriends are THE least cancerous group.

>>31801653
t. owlfag

>>31801658
Catfags don't exist
Sealfags are waifufags combined with trapfags

>>31801653
>>31801667
And there he is. Exact same post as before, replying to the same kind of post. And using the same buzzwords too.

Nice dude. Real nice. Some people like your falseflags.

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>>31801667
I'm neither of those things and I think seal is great. Brionne is kind of weird but Pop and Prim are both 10/10.

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>>31801677

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>>31801653
Owlfags have been the most cancerous in the past, it's a bit better now though, as it's mostly really obvious falseflaggers
>>31801667
Well, i'm neither and love Primarina! Lucky me I guess!

Let's not derail the discussion. This is about Viability Rankings.

>>31801701
>Owlfags have been the most cancerous in the past
That has literally never happened ever and you know it.

>>31800958
I think he's just confused at the rankings, it's not like necrozma, diggersby and shedinja have a record of being good/were believed to be good

Not everything is an attack on primarina

>>31801653
I can't believe no one called out this falseflagger. Have people lost the ability to see through obvious falseflagging?

>>31801710
Eh, believe whatever makes you happy, I guess. I don't really care.

>>31801694
>being a phoneposter
Anon.
>>31801710
I would say all of them were to a degree. Owlies have the highest shitposting ratio due to one poster who is obsessed and probably doesn't even like the thing, and their threads have next to no constructive discussion other than pics. Catleys have the whole "intimidate when" and "he'll be good with HA and tutors" but otherwise they're pretty civil and quiet. Prims take offense and fall for bait the easiest (making them rather vitriolic at times) but they're one of the more positive communities.

>>31801744
how is your first day here?

>>31801710
so I take it you weren't around for when the evos were officially revealed? owlfags went apeshit about how primarina and incineroar were gonna be utter garbage and the owl was gonna be S+ OU

>>31801753
>but otherwise they're pretty civil and quiet
Speaking as someone who has witnessed what kind of massive assholes they are, you wouldn't say this unless
>you are a naive newfag
>you are deluded
>you are one of them and lying to cover up for nasty behavior
So, which one of them is it?

>>31801765
>owlfags went apeshit about how primarina and incineroar were gonna be utter garbage and the owl was gonna be S+ OU
That has literally never happened ever and you know it.

>>31801781
None of these. I picked Rowlet actually, and I don't like cat pokemon or dog pokemon at all. This is simply what I have observed in the general threads and eliminating outliers. Their threads are typically imagedumps and people who want to fuck it, much like every pokemon on /vp/. Like I said, they get terrible when competitive is brought into question, but otherwise they mostly just stick to their own thing.
>>31801765
That was built up over months of shitflinging between the three starterbases because of the leaks. Everyone was going nuts.

>>31801753
Primarina fags are generally the least aggressive of the three for sure. They care much more about defending their starter (way too much, sometimes) than talking shit about the other two. Incineroar and Decidueye fags are a bit more aggressive than you say, in my experience, though. Just look how they get angry about which one will be Ash's main in the anime.

Let's be real. If Decidueye was the highest ranked of the starters, this thread would have been just owlfags shit talking the other two.

>>31801753
>And their threads have next to no constructive discussion other than pics

Doesn't this really just apply to every starter thread? Mostly filled with fan art dumps and barely anything worth of discussion, shitposting once every often, either drowned in either more fan art or people constantly falling for it.

>>31800861
>MINIOR WAS GOING TO BE THE NEXT AEGISLASH THEY SAID

Seeing /vp/ scrubs be proven hilariously wrong is why I keep coming to this shithole.

>>31800861
Man

They said Primarina would be OU because it was pretty much a Special Azumarill

No one considered that Azumarill itself would be powercreeped to fuck

Anyone going to link the whole list?

>>31801907
People underestimated the Tapus

Prima is good, but it's no Fini. There's a chance it could be sent to BL hell soon with nothing good against in UU after the ban waves

>>31801907
No one said that on /vp/. Everyone said that it "died instantly because low defense" or that it was a "worse azumarill" lol
>>31801912
>>31801237

>>31801744
Are Trannyfuckers the most defensive autists on this board? I think even Barafags have accepted that they deserve the shit they're getting at this point.

>Salamence
>A-

What happened?

>>31801924
The Primarina supporters at the time had it as their main argument

>>31801149
It's not OU, it just has a viable niche there.

>>31801951
I was there and no, not really. They expected it to be a really good UU mon and they got exactly that.

>>31800958
You autist
You deserve to be name called even if (as it is) it's baut.

>>31801940
Z-moves.

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Why do people care about how good their favorite pokemon is in a irrelevant casual format ?

>>31801765

Nnnot really, I didn't really think much of him competitive wise actually. There was a period when some Inci/Pri fans (might have not been fans) were trashing the owl when his speed was revealed, but the other starters were still unknown before they realized their final evos shared the same Speed base, lower than Decidueye. This was witnessed, but I actually barely remember about it.

Big whoop, some people care about competitive and others not. I wasn't really concerned about stats for the owl back then or for the rest of them, really. Some people just like making threads to piss people off too, I'm the one least surprised about it. Lot of shitposting back then.

People jumping into conclusions might be wrong, wow. Fucking far out conclusion, man.

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>>31801989
why do you type like you have brain damage, what does any of this mean?

>>31802000
It ain't irrelevant to them

>>31802027
>thinking anyone expected Primarina to be fast
come on now.

>>31801801
There was like one guy who thought Decidueye would be banned because he didn't know how Spirit Shackle worked, but that's all I remember.

>>31802000
vgc is shit

Hera was blacklisted because tards wouldn't shut up about it "DEMOLISHING STALL" for like ~3 pages when it actually does jack shit unless you're up against an equally retarded player. Trigger-happy mods blacklisted it because they were sick of hearing about it. Idk about golisopod, though.

>>31801765
Every starterfag did that though.

>>31802043
But why ? 6v6 singles is straight up trash, it takes absolutely no skill and has 0 depth, it's not even fun
there is absolutey no upside to it, casuals only love it because It's how the main game and anime does it

>>31802091
This is a trash example but if you like Play station All stars and your favorite character is considard good wouldnt you be happy?

>>31802047

I've witnessed enough to say, yes, there were people who thought this, so yep. Probably because of the whole acrobat/performing thing, the thing is, it's still a big sea lion laying down and changes its focus to singing from its transition from Brionne to Primarina.

I was still surprised because of Incineroar, but then I remembered the speed difference of a cat walking in fours and a tiger walking in two.

hint: humans can barely outrun animals in four legs

>>31802118
Considered good by 0.001% of the community that plays by an fan made set of rules that takes away any interesting aspect of the game ?
No, I wouldn't care

>>31802000
Nobody's talking about VGC here, anon.

>>31802131
Niches are niches

Shedninja can shut down certain ubers and occasionally find usage in VGC

>>31802128
To this day it feels like a big dip, why not keep it at 65-75 at the least.

>>31802131
So what?

~0.01% of the world plays Curling that doesn't belittle it

How is Duggy's suspect test looking?

>>31801753
Catfag here. No particular opinion on the owl or seal.

Intimidate when is pretty much a joking meme at this point.

The threads are mostly art dumps but pretty comfy and there's been a push for more discussions and less art, so the threads have been pretty nice for a while. Haters get ignored or the occasional (you).

That said.. .that all has been like a month ago though, the last couple weeks have seen a sudden flood of hate for the cat after like a month of mostly peace. Obvious falseflagging, getting annoying, but not worth arguing over. I think the people who usually start threads for it don't need to see it drowned in shitposting/haters.

I think eventually both Primarina and Incineroar will be more competitively viable than Decidueye as the generation goes on, though, due to Primarina's typing and sp. attack and Incineroar's defensive bulk and coverage.

>>31802169
I admittedly agree.

>>31802216
Very divisive. The thread is honestly not worth reading, it's mostly retards cherry picking replays to support their point.

>All these fags trying to be muh about Primairina being OU

Wow, the water / fairy Pokemon made it OU. What a shocker. It isn't like it is one of the best type combos in the game.

>>31801753
>Catleys have the whole "intimidate when" and "he'll be good with HA and tutors" but otherwise they're pretty civil and quiet
So are you going to claim all that "nu-male" doesn't happen? I will say that Catfags are the most aggressive ones and I can give you many threads to back that up. Owlfags do act like their starter is the superior one, but they don't try to shit on others nearly as much. That, and since there are more Owlfags in general, you tend to see them more often.

Primarinafags are the tamest, though. Mostly because Primarina is better off than the other two, having a good design and being strong.

>>31802297
It's not OU retard. It'a just viable in it.

>>31802325
>Primarinafags are the tamest
Waifu threads are shit

>>31802326
Then even less of a reason to talk about it besides shitposting

>>31802325
>Primarinafags are the tamest, though.
Tamest in the sense they don't shit on others. Otherwise, they're as bad as Phoxfags.

>>31802326
>just because it's viable in OU doesn't mean it's ou
is this you?

>>31802336
>Waifu threads are shit
waifu threads are the only thing that make this board tolerable post-leak season

>>31802349
Correction, Pokemon waifu threads are shit.

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>>31802349
shit, forgot my image

>>31802349
Do you not understand how tiers work? Wouldn't surprise me, considering how shit most of /vp/ is at understanding even basic competitive concepts.

>>31802357
If the Pokemon has enough usage to be in a tier, it is in that tier.

>>31802366
It is not OU, but it is viable in OU depending on the right circumstances. What's so hard to understand?

>>31802378
Then what tier is a Pokemon that isn't allowed to be used in UU or lower, but isn't Ubers?
Pro Tip: BL isn't a tier

It's funny how people call Primarina fags "waifu fags" when they hate sexualizing it and Incineroar fags have way more lewd stuff in their thread (not that i mind)

>>31802388
>they hate sexualizing it
that's a meme you retard

>>31802385
You seem to be confused as to how tiers work. In a particular tier, you can use every pokemon of that tier and the ones below it. Primarina is UU, which means it can be used in OU.

>>31802407
Most of them do, or don't care at all

>>31802413
I just didn't read the thread. I figured if something was rated as OU, it would be OU.

I think we can both agree it is funny watching GF try to make a Pokemon with a good typing shit though.

>>31802435
Don't pretend that you know shit if you can't even bother doing your research then fucboi. God I hate people like you.

>>31802443
Love you too

>>31802366
>If the Pokemon has enough usage to be in a tier, it is in that tier.

Say that to poor Keldeo. The only reason it's not OU atm is because people don't use it that much.

>>31802216
It's a clustershiet. People are saying Duggy is broken, some say it's not, other say it's broken only in stall and that M-Sableye is responsible for breaking every trapper ever, etc.

>>31801822
This, and I believe it's because they got exactly what they were expecting with Primarina; a bulky special attacker with a neat typing and movepool. The fact that it's the most one-dimensional an straightfoward role-wise might have something to do, too.

Meanwhile, I feel that Decidueye/ Incineroar's thread consisted in their fans desesperately finding a way to make use of the bizarre stat spreads & movepool their starters got.

>>31802500
>If the Pokemon has enough usage to be in a tier, it is in that tier.
>Say that to poor Keldeo. The only reason it's not OU atm is because people don't use it that much.

What exactly is your point here?

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If Protean gets banned, this thing will become the best Ash-Greninja counter in the tier and she will be even better. Fini would be able to switch in everytime as well, but has waaay more switch-ins and doesn't punish nearly as much.

>>31802762
Can't Greninja use Gunk Shot?

>>31802845
Only Protean, not Ash-Greninja. Gunk Shot was an ORAS tutor-move.

>>31802511
I'm saying that while Keldeo it's used, it didn't make it to the top 50. It did got to 54/56 place iirc, so I would see it get there around march/april.

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>>31801653

>>31800861
>Azumarill
>C+

How the mighty have fallen. Tapus really were a game changer

>>31802133
>official format where you can win glory and THOUSANDS of dollars
>irrelevant
Found the delusional smogonfag. Enjoy being poor forever because you can only win on a simulator.

>>31802996
If anything, any of these guys could become OU at any moment:

> | 50 | Clefable | 3.28353% | 84691 | 3.709% | 58467 | 3.432% |
> | 51 | Gengar | 3.00134% | 86249 | 3.777% | 59151 | 3.472% |
> | 52 | Dragonite | 2.76973% | 93392 | 4.090% | 64205 | 3.769% |
> | 53 | Gyarados | 2.61455% | 43092 | 1.887% | 32701 | 1.919% |
> | 54 | Keldeo | 2.59477% | 38790 | 1.699% | 28212 | 1.656% |
> | 55 | Serperior | 2.30246% | 65898 | 2.886% | 46818 | 2.748% |
> | 56 | Kingdra | 2.29417% | 69104 | 3.026% | 50322 | 2.954% |
> | 57 | Bisharp | 2.29231% | 46796 | 2.049% | 32557 | 1.911% |
> | 58 | Kyurem-Black | 2.22077% | 31337 | 1.372% | 22243 | 1.306% |
> | 59 | Mantine | 2.17544% | 44140 | 1.933% | 34655 | 2.034% |
> | 60 | Amoonguss | 2.04017% | 26456 | 1.159% | 19981 | 1.173% |

>Primarinafags bragging about their C+
This is getting sad. Just admit all the starters this gen were a bust.

>>31803158
>REEEE stop discussing about Pokémon in this Pokémon message board!
>Stop liking what I don't like!
C+ means it has relevance, so it's worth discussing.

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>>31802435
>tfw gf made all the starters shit and only the one with a ridiculously good typing just barely survived
Thanks.

>>31803177
Relevant in that it's a sub-optimal option? That it is situationally relevant? That it's barely passing?

>>31803210
Relevant in that it was featured in SPL games and won everytime :^)
Important enough for competitive players for sure.

>>31803158
In the current metagame, Pheromosa and Scarf Lel have effectively turned Hyper Offense into a niche who's barely more used than stall itself; the latter is heavily relying in trappers to stay relevant, and M-Metagross is everywhere because everything that walled/outspeed it in Gen 6 is UU because of the Tapus.

All things considered, being C+ in the current state of the metagame might as well be a huge accomplishment.

>>31803114
I don't even play competitive, I just prefer Smogon's rules to VGC. Doubles a shit and playing without an Evasion clause is painful. Smogon has its own problems of course, especially with how ban happy it can get sometimes (never forget how hard they tried to ban M-Gengar from Ubers), but it's a lesser evil.

>>31803239
Primarina works great with Mega-Metagross, as it cucks Ash-Greninja. Better than Fini as a team mate for Metagross.

>>31803158
>When you feel like a pokemons' typing combination to be the reason it even made it this far

Kinda shows Water type and Fairy type to be one of the most overpowered types, even more when combined. Grass already has trouble for instance against its weaknesses and very few manage to have luck, but in Decidueye's case, getting Ghost wasn't particularly a great idea either (compared to Flying) competitive wise, especially with that distro. It serves a niche, I guess, if you manage to pull it off.

It still feels like they kind of hindered Primarina ability wise despite the typing combination, probably because they already knew the type combination would be too overpowered. Despite that, it still manages to hold its ground.

>>31803311
>Kinda shows Water type and Fairy type to be one of the most overpowered types

It shows nothing because having a good type alone doesn't make you viable.

>>31803311
It's not all about the typing, it still got amazing coverage and Special stats. Considering this is even before Move Tutors, I'd say they didn't really hinder Primarina that much.

>>31803311
>>31803361
Like, Fire/Dark is an amazing offensive typing too, it doesn't work for Incineroar only because he's slow and doesn't get the best moves for those types.

>>31803311
>252+ SpA Choice Specs Torrent Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 310-366 (77.8 - 91.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

...You sure about that?

>>31803378
I've been experimenting with him in UU and I've to say it genuinely surpised me. As a specially defensive pivot of sorts, it can do quite a lot against psychics and fairies not named Primarina.

Incineroar @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Atk / 16 Def / 196 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Darkest Lariat
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Swich into whatever Incineroar resist. Depending on what you think the oponent's gonna do next, you either SD or click an attack.

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>>31803605
>252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 316-373 (104.9 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yeah, Prima is stupid strong. The worst thing, I have to say, is the chance of missing Hydro Pumps. I wish Sparkling Aria was a little bit more powerful, or that it got Boomburst.
I'll try that Incineroar in UU, looks interesting. Let's hope for Intimidate soon.

Primarina needs Boomburst, otherwise Liquid Voice is gonna be useless

>>31803681
Hyper Voice spam in rain is gonna be a thing in VGC I think, but yeah, for singles it really needs that.

>>31803151
You could make a good OU team with most of those in Gen 6.