Things you miss from older generations

i miss the 60 fps from gen 3 games. i also miss the hoenn routes being one big zone with no gates. really helps bring the world together desu.

if there's anything i want from the sinnoh remakes, it's less gates. surely with the 3ds technology you could find a new way to load resources without slowing the game down.

I miss being able to use teleport/dig outside of battle

I miss the games being good

Actual post game content

>>31787755
I hope switch will remain a good fps, I don´t play sun postgame just because I have so much slowdowns in 2vs2.

Also Hoenn has for me the best world structure, it could be like dark souls, because every fucking inch is actually connected, so it has actually shortcuts.

>>31787772
fuck off.

I miss rivals being challenging.

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>>31787735
Legendary dungeons

I hate how in every modern Pokemon game, what are supposed to be the most powerful creatures in the game are either
>forced captures with jacked up capture rates
>stuck in tiny ass rooms with little to no puzzles or powerful trainers blocking your way to them
>handed directly to you by some random nobody
>encountered in tall grass/caves like some plain Rattata, with no roaming mechanic like in previous generations
And to think legendary Pokemon used to feel rewarding to find and catch. What the hell happened to places like Regi caves or Stark Mountain that gave you something fun to explore after you finished the game?

>>31787783
to add something there regardless of challenging, because in a no exp share run hau sweeped me away with his raichu.

I miss rivals beeing champs. Sun Moon did an excellent job with the champ, eventhough I was spoiled, but I was really suprised after I beat the e4 you thought, damn that was hard.... now fight against blue.

Pokemon following you
Running toggle

Puzzles. I miss puzzles.

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Event Pokemon found in event only locations

Fucking bikes. I miss them so much. No HMs is nice but bikes tho.. :(

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>>31787735
I miss the old awful static sprites because it kicked my imagination into gear, which is a nostalgia trip for me now.

I miss the old sounds and music, because it was iconic and catchy for me as a kid, which is a huge nostalgia trip for me now.

I miss more or less every stupid fluff gimmick besides contests that they've ever discarded, because I liked the stupid fluff gimmicks.


As for stuff I liked, because you got me thinking about it:

I liked that SM upped the difficulty of the main game, I'm okay with softer rival personalities if the games keep this difficulty.

Hau got much better on Aether Island Round 2, and was a much better rival overall than those of the last few gens.

Sprites. Now the Pokémon just stand there like retards instead of having a cool pose like in gen 1 or 2.

>>31787818
>I miss the old awful static sprites because it kicked my imagination into gear, which is a nostalgia trip for me now.

I can relate. I enjoy the sprites for the first few games a lot because they are very dynamic and kinda abstract even. Which allows you to kinda decide for yourself what the pokemon looks like to you. A lot of the sprites even misrepresented the pokemon like koffing.

Seeing the same 3d design on pokemon repeated in every game just kinda bores me.

>>31787788
this. so much this.

I think all of this kinda died with Gen 4, Gen 5 had it again, but Gen 6 killed it.

Gen 1 was the best example (still no genwunner shit here), You didn´t even know that legendaries exist. you went to the island with articuno looked whats there and bam ice bird. Same with Zapdos.

Gen 2 you got the same with the cover legendaries

the story never involved catching legendaries it was more like here you go explore this world. Now it´s here is your pokemon go become champ and save the whole world with catching a god.

Gen 7 reverted kinda back to its roots. The whole game felt like. Here is your pokemon, go explore the islands and have fun with your friends. It was linear yes, but at least the routes were like dark souls 3 and I wished we would get more interaction with the characters especially rival and gladion.


I also miss different sprites per game and cardrigde colors.

>>31787735
I miss sprites and interesting minigames like Pokéathlon.

>>31787788
The regis were best in this regard. It was fucking mindblowing when my cousin showed the sealed chamber to me for the first time. Then when I finally confronted one of them, this music starts to play
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7SrUYEKMOg

>>31787836
>You didn´t even know that legendaries exist. you went to the island with articuno looked whats there and bam ice bird. Same with Zapdos.

I like this design as well. I think it was more influenced from old RPG's and you put the good shit at the end of long and weird dungeons.

It's fucking surreal when everyone in all the games talk to you about these mythical pokemon that rule over space and time and the ocean and all the people know about it and those pokemon are just chilling in their own little apartment like 2 blocks from town.

>>31787836
>It was linear yes, but at least the routes were like dark souls 3
You've never played a souls game have you.

>>31787818
>miss the old sounds and music

like I said, same here anon. I think as a kid I rarely played the games with sound, because I wanted to save battery power.

But if I hear this I can sing literally 90% of this.

have a nice nostalgia trip anon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axKDCZd4Mfc

Also I agree to 100% with the sprites thing.

>>31787735
I miss when the plot of the game didn't revolve around (insert game cover legendary here) and you being the chosen magical destiny child of greatness

SM removed most of the things I liked in the series. Name a thing SM removed, and it's probably in there.

Except for you, HMs. Fly, Surf and Waterfall might make good coverage moves, but I don't want to waste a party slot specifically to save my ass from a huge trip.

I miss actual level design and I miss the stories not being completely up their own asses with the evil teams and forcing the legendaries into the story and on you

Gen VI was a little better than V about the story and legends—only having three was one of the best choices of the VI dex and the box legend was barely involved with the story—but VII went into overkill

>>31787862
One of the things I hated in ORAS was when you got your 4th(?) badge I think and Steven (the fucking champion) realizes that wow 4 badges this kid is clearly the hero to all the realm and flies you on his legendary pokemon so you could just casually get a legendary pokemon and learn how to use your super evolution thing because you are the protagonist.

That entire little story section made me wannt to throw up because of how wrong it felt

>>31787862
So what, you want no plot at all? Like Gen 1 and 2?

>>31787852
yes, I remember watching the soccer training of a friend. Then there was this guy who saw that I played ruby, he asked me "do you know about rayquaza", of course I didn´t. He took my gba, brought me to skytower and gave it back. Fuck this was drilling to get up there just to see a fucking green dragon sitting there.

>>31787855
>you never played a souls game
Completed all achievments on 1 and 3, 2 is missing. Did you play dark souls 3 at all? Because dark souls 3 is linear (if you don´t know about dancer), and the level design is also linear. Meaning most of the times you really can just go straight to an end, but the location itself has many secrets you can go to and find on this route.

In sun moon you can just follow the route and if you try to explore these you sometimes find secret places items etc. Dark souls 3 is the same, you can just go straight from beginning to the boss, but you can also explore shit and see stuff. It doesn´t have a connected world like 1 or a semi connected world like 2, but the routes have things to explore.

>>31787866
SM was really bad in that regard. I mean the world was designed like a mobile RPG than anything with thought put into it.

>>31787791
A rival was champ only once. While I think it was neat, how can people say "oh I kiss this so much it made the games better" when literally one game did this. You can't even really count FRLG because it's the same game.

>>31787889
Why Gen 7 also doesn´t follow this route?

Gen 1 and 7 follow the story of: Here get your pokemon explore stuff and try to become a good trainer with challenging the gymns and during your travel you meet evil people you need to defeat to help people etc.

Gen 2 kinda follows the same, but after you meet oak the prof says shit about "woaaah he choose you, you are probably the new champ".

>>31787890
>but the location itself has many secrets you can go to and find on this route.
So not like SM at all.
If anything that fits gen 5 more than anything seeing as that gen was riddled with hidden areas.

>>31787889
Not him but yes I would like "no story" like the first two generations even though they did have story just in a manner that isn't shoved down your throat like a suppository or fellating the MC incessantly like the games have done since Gen IV

>>31787889
Honestly, yeah.

I never played a pokemon game for the plot. I play it for the sense of adventure, battling and collecting. To be free to do what I want. This is usually fucking crippled when (like in sun and moon) you constantly constantly constantly are being interrupted by tweedle dee and tweedle dum stopping you from playing the fucking game to bark exposition and plot at you.

I'm open to the idea of more plot in the games but it has to be not obtrusive like it usually is.

>>31787903
>Gen 1 and 7 follow the story of: Here get your pokemon explore stuff and try to become a good trainer with challenging the gymns and during your travel you meet evil people you need to defeat to help people etc.
Except for the part where you're literally Tapu Koko's chosen one.
Hell gen 7 is technically the only chosen one plot.

>>31787889
Yes.

>>31787904
well yeah gen 5 has the best routes design. It´s not that good of course but it is still better than other games in this franchise. Like I said the secrets here are mostly Items and Zygarde cores, it´s better than nothing.

>>31787897
so what? following pokemon were also only did once (2 if you want to count yellow with pikachu) and people still crave to have it back.

>>31787911
the fucker only gives you a z-watch. I always thought it was more like "I want to see how this guy becomes during his trial". Compared to rse, where fucking steven the fucking champ says "Anon go and beat the legendary monster, you are the only one who can do it" it´s miles better.

>>31787791
Rival was a champ literally once. Its a rare thing that gen 1 broke the formula before it even existed.

I also like how sm got that back in a way.

>>31787911
Not really, HGSS is more that with the Kimono Girls, or BW1 with N, or BW2 with the Swords of Justice though you can completely ignore them if you want

SM's has its own issues though

>>31787889
Yes. I still haven't finished Sun because I just got so frustrated with Hau and Lillie constantly stopping you on every single fucking route.

I can't catch pokemon and get into battles when I have to keep mashing A while Lillie explains her backstory for the 10th time this island.

>>31787735
Poketch.

>>31787918
And then everyone goes WOOOOOOOOOOW TAPU KOKO GAVE YOU A Z-WATCH YOU MUST BE SOMETHING SPECIAL KANTOBOY in shit and awe because a Tapu decided to not be a cunt for once. Except Koko did what he did out of self-benefit because he knew you were a super duper special snowflake who would go far enough to get him his battle junkie jollies later-on.

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I miss shitmons in single player.

>limited TMs
>low power moves
>good moves have very limited distribution
>not always getting stab moves
>useless abilities
>terrible stats

Every gen introduces better and better moves to the point that shitmons only exist in multiplayer now. It can be a challenge finding good moves for you pokemon in gen 3.

Shitmons are bestmons.

>>31787862
That only happens in gen 5 and even then its arguable.
The good thing about the plots its that it avoids doing that, you just are too much of a badass so you end up involved in those situations.

>>31787788
Turnback cave literally fucked with my mind

I miss money making mini games(fuck Voltorb flip) /VS seeker. And the gen 1/4 Casinos were great.

The pokedex layout from FR/LG is my favorite and I wish it would return as a style option at least.

>>31787918
>Like I said the secrets here are mostly Items and Zygarde cores,
I don't think you get it. In SM all of that is in the open as in you don't have to go hunting for it nor is it a secret of any kind.

In a Souls game you often have to find a wall that can be broken or fight a strong enemy to find the secret.

You starting to get it?

>>31787937
I would argue every plot from 3rd gen onward ultimately ends up being about the box art legendary which is incredibly boring and predictable.

The special snowflake main character was kinda subdued in 3rd gen but they have slowly been ramping it to Sun and Moon where every character gives you a big ol' blowjob and tells you how cool you are after you do anything.

>>31787939
I like the habitats in the FRLG pokedex. It is so inconsequential I can't help but like it.

>>31787862
>>31787907
>>31787908
>>31787915
>>31787927
You're still exploring just as much, battling just as much and collecting just as much. Addition of plot and story doesn't take that away. It adds to that.
I will never understand how can people like a game without plot where you're doing the same thing over and over and over again. There's nothing driving you in Gen 1 or 2 other than just battles. More battles. More battles. You still have your battles you love so much in SM, but it gives you more entertainment by providing you with an engaging story. I HATED Team Rocket in Gen 1 or 2. They were boring as fuck. I hated going into Silph Co., I hated the Casino Basement, I hated the long routes with a shit ton of trainers. The only times I enjoyed myself was when fighting a Gym, Legendaries or the Rival.

I know it's "to each their own" thing, but this is just something I'm unable to comprehend. If you still have all you previously did, but more, how is that a bad thing? I've been doing battles for 14 years now. Even now, I can battle for indefinite amount of time without interruptions, with the Tree or online Battles. They are, at least, challenging and keep you entertained, rather than the random trainer battles.

So you still have battles, but better, and you still get to explore a new region, but now there are pieces of story attached to each new place to make it more interesting. I fail to understand why that's a bad thing. Because you can't just rush through places?

>>31787958
I think they don't realise you can have both plot and exploration because GF have been skimping on the latter in the last two gens. Just look at Sun and Moon. It's the smallest and most linear region yet.

With that said plot basically should basically serve as a "hidden" guide for players in larger games.

>>31787918
The main difference in rival=champ and following pokemon, was one was a gimmick that the game utilized heavily, the other was incidental.

>>31787958
>Because you can't just rush through places?

I don't know about you, but when I get to a new unexplored route, the very first thing I wanna do is check it for items and search the grass for some awesome new pokemon or battle trainers and level up.

To me when I get to a new area and get immediately blue-balled because an NPC has to have a 5 minute conversation with me it feels shitty. Plus it takes away from the exploration element which I believe is critical to pokemon. I don't feel like I'm truly exploring the island when I'm just following everyone's instructions on how to explore it and when and how much like I'm a fucking pack-mule.

You can like plot all you want to claim it doesn't take away from anything is just false.

>>31787767
what? you can't do that anymore?

>>31788000
>You can like plot all you want to claim it doesn't take away from anything is just false.
He's not entirely wrong there. Plot doesn't take away from anything on its own it's when the plot comes in the form of long and drawn out cutscenes where the majority of it are the characters standing there while the camera pans over then it just becomes a slog for the player.

>>31787889
That's /vp/'s wet dream.

>>31787948
>I would argue every plot from 3rd gen onward ultimately ends up being about the box art legendary which is incredibly boring and predictable.
While I agree with that, the plot being about the cover legend doesnt mean the mc is the chosen one. I liked how gen 6 twisted it by having the villain getting the legendary off screen though. And it worked well with gen 5's duality theme.

>The special snowflake main character was kinda subdued in 3rd gen but they have slowly been ramping it to Sun and Moon where every character gives you a big ol' blowjob and tells you how cool you are after you do anything.
That just means the mc is good, although after reading >>31787911 I reminded gen 7 also applies.

>>31787958
I gave up trying to comprehend that long ago. The pokemon fanbase just hates any sort or narrative where shit's going on.

>>31788013
Not in gen7. SM took away HMs and field moves in the process.

>>31788000
But you still get to explore for items. You still get to explore just as much, if not more. Take Gen 1, for example. On the entirety of Viridian City to Mount Moon, you get almost almost NO items. All you do is battle one trainer after another. Mount Moon is a dungeon, and I can understand exploring those and wanting those back, so I'll skip over that. Now from the exit of Mount Moon to Vermilion, you get, I think, two to three items. Other than that, it's all just battles. The same battles against some low level Rattata that you'll just one shot and be on your way with.
SM actually improves on that with Zygarde sidequest. You're constantly exploring and getting rewarded for that exploration with a Zygarde Cell. The only difference is, you get a good story. This is different, and new. It gave me a reason to go to the next route, as opposed to going there just to battle some more trainers, which you still can do.

The only real "exploration" Gen 1 had was with Power Plant and Seafoam Islands. That's not much, really. Gen 2 had Whirl Island and Golden Tower. Again, still not a lot. As far as new places to explore goes, SM had just as many. It just didn't make them optional. Which really doesn't mean much. If you're going to explore them anyway, there's no point in making them optional. The only thing SM did wrong was remove dungeons, other than the last one. Those, I will agree need to return. But as far exploration goes, there's still the same amount of it.

>>31788061
>SM had just as many.
The problem there is that the areas didn't promote exploration because of the extremely basic design.

>>31787798
>>31787788
>>31787778
These.

Also being able to catch them all (not just regional dex) with minimal trading in gens 1, 2 and 4.

>>31787735
i miss the games not holding your hands like you're a complete downie

>>31788101
You missed 5 there anon.

This thread has just turned into a place where contrarians complain about SM. I feel bad for OP. It's the opposite of what he wanted. At least there are some good posts here.

As for me personally, I just miss the fun side activities like Contests or Pokeathlon and PokeStar studio. Fuck Musicals, though. They were shit.

>>31788121
http://www.serebii.net/blackwhite/unobtainable.shtml
http://www.serebii.net/black2white2/unobtainable.shtml
There's a lot missing from them, but I guess Dream World should also count.

Might be the only one but I miss being able to cut grass outside of battle like in gen 3

>>31788159
To be fair it was inevitable. SM did simplify a lot.

>>31787958
This. After all these generations of battling trainers and catching mons, it's becoming a bit stale. I still like it, but I wish I had something to do other than the core gameplay.
Though I don't agree with Silph Co. and Rocket Hideout: those were rad and had (especially the latter) really cool music.

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>New games come out
>Still no sign of VS.Seeker

THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

>>31788181
I know no one's going to agree with this, but I think SM amplified more than it simplified. The battles were more fun, exploring was more rewarding and the story was better. The only things I thought were truly simplified were the puzzles and dungeons. Oh, and town designs. They're still as good as anything Gen 1 to 4 had to offer, but pale in comparison to Gen 5 and 6's town designs.

>>31788278
Of course no one will agree because it's the exact opposite of what SM is.
The battling was worse due to the removal of three different battle modes.
Exploration was gimped in that secret areas weren't a thing nor did the game promote it with things like rare items, mon etc.
And the story was so in your face and frequent that it killed the remaining replay value.

The towns for the first time in a pokemon game had houses and buildings with doors that you couldn't enter at all.

>>31788324
>The battling was worse due to the removal of three different battle modes.
"More fun", not more types of it. Though I don't like that they were taking out, the difficulty of main game was higher than most games, especially during Totem battles, so it was overall more engaging.

>Exploration was gimped in that secret areas weren't a thing nor did the game promote it with things like rare items, mon etc.
I don't care about "secret areas". As always, /vp/ considers counts optional areas as exploration, so not surprising you'd think it was bad.

>And the story was so in your face and frequent that it killed the remaining replay value.
Only the first island was really bad, and while it's still going to be a pain on 3rd playthrough, it was much more entertaining than anything before.

>The towns for the first time in a pokemon game had houses and buildings with doors that you couldn't enter at all.
Inaccessible building have literally been there since Gen 1. Stopped being a thing in Gen 3, but made a return in Gen 5.

>>31788407
>/vp/ considers only optional areas as exploration

>>31788201
As much as I like the Vs. Seeker I must admit that I've discovered that there is one of each NPC Trainer that can be rematched change their teams (one Lass, one Female Ace Trainer, one Female Swimmer, etc.).

>>31787735
To me, personally things felt grander in scope, but again this is partly my nostalgia talking too and being a kid growing up during the Pokemon's infancy it was pure magic walking through the streets with a gameboy back then.

The adventures in Yellow was magical and how it was enforced in GSC, I fondly remember the days where once you brought your gameboy to school and played Pokemon, people would flock around you. Made my fight VS Blue in Gold just way more intense lol.

What kills the newer gens for me is my own fault, and that is ever since Gen 5 I've been spoiling myself by eventually view the whole dex usually the week before release etc. I don't hate gen 5-7, I think they are great, but it is difficult to maintain the magic of childhood forever. I still like them and even got fav mons and characters from these gens too, still trying to preserve the feels of the unknown in Pokemon, just like the old days, though it is difficult.

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I'm sure these are simple requests. Shouldn't be that hard to include at least one in the next games, right?

>>31787889
Are you surprised? Vp is full of kids who can't read the plot and weebs who don't want any evolution in the series

>>31788712
You do realise that this "plot" you speak off has been the same ever since R/B right?

>Evil guys do evil things
>You stop their evil doings
>Great job! Now go and become the champion!

>>31788712
>if you don't like the plot about being the chosen one and finding the legendary mon without effort then you're a kid!
this is truly a retarded post

Overworlds that have lots of shortcuts and actually feel like overworlds rather than segmented areas (like Hoenn and Sinnoh).

60fps, smooth animations

Barely any handholding

Large dungeons for legendary Pokemon

Gym Leader rematches

Battle Frontier

Even shit like the DexNav and the Battle Resort from ORAS (even if it is only a few years old)

>>31788407
>I don't care about "secret areas". As always, /vp/ considers counts optional areas as exploration, so not surprising you'd think it was bad.
You what?
That's exactly what makes exploration exploration. In Sun and Moon you were just on a glorified tour because there was nothing to explore and discover.

>>31789063
I'm mad about this too but let's be fair. While Alola overall is severely lacking in aptitude for exploration there are a few optional areas to discover, like Seaward Cave + Kala'e Bay and Poni Meadow + Resolution Cave.

>>31787958
Story isn't bad. But Gen I and II did deliver small, interesting bits story through things other than endless cutscenes that break up the gameplay in a bad way. Even in the past three generations, the most interesting bits of story are to be found in brief, optional flavor text. But they keep forcing shitty cutscenes with subpar writing even for children's entertainment at you during the main story anyways.

>>31787958
>exploring just as much
Not in this most linear and simple map layout to date. People who claim there's still an exploring aspect just refer to using an itemfinder for a few minutes or walking behind a hidden corner which really is nothing compared to complex dungeons of previous games.
>battling just as much
Not when near every trainer has a single pokemon who would likely be underleveled as fuck compared to your exp shared team of six.

>>31788016
The story and plot isn't bad in my opinion but when you add an abundance of it interrupting your journey while at the same time removing the complexity, difficulty and depth of actually traveling around, you're gonna get some bored, frustrated people.

>>31789099
>like Seaward Cave + Kala'e Bay and Poni Meadow + Resolution Cave.
Which brings us to the discovery aspect of exploration which is a necessary aspect of exploration that those areas didn't have.
Also Poni Meadow and Resolution Cave were a part of the post game rather than an area you discover on your own like say Seafoam or Mistralton Cave.

>>31789112
>Gen 1 and 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>story
Don't kid yourself. Gen I and II provided a basic setting, no story. The story was, at best, Giovanni talking about how evil he was, and after you beat him, how he was running away. That's no story, let alone a good one. My fucking asshole is more interesting than the "story" of most Pokemon games. They tried for the first time in BW, but the subject was so retarded that it fell flat on its face. BW2 redeemed that a bit, but it was not on par with even SNES games' stories.

>>31789239
>but the subject was so retarded that it fell flat on its face.
I bet you thought it was about Pokemon abuse.

>>31789247
Pokemon can't function properly without humans. Liberating them was a retarded idea. That's the biggest reason I like Colress, because he wasn't a fucking retard. Pokemon travel with humans of their own accord, that's how it's always been and always will be.

>>31789266
Congrats you fell for Ghetsis' facade and missed the point.

>>31788424
The Lass outside of Vermillion change her teams and the two lasses that are in a row between Lavender and Saffron also change their teams.

Sure, not all trainers level up their teams but it's a fair share. Sadly their level cap is around 45 before you beat the league, and 55 after.

Level cap for Sevii Island Trainers were 60 IIRC.

>>31789247
>>31789281
What was it about, then?

>>31787735
>Areas having different music depending on what time of day it was
>Postgame
>Hooking your handheld up to your Nintendo console and playing on your TV

>>31789063
>Glorified tour
Hurts to see it summed up so well in just two words.

>>31789266
I guess wild Pokémon/animals didn't "function properly" until humans appeared then.

>>31789239
I think by "small, interesting bits" and "brief, optional flavor text" he meant things like the Cinnabar Mansion journals or the NPCs around Ecruteak City who allude to the existence of Ho-Oh and Lugia, and tell you how Raikou, Entei and Suicune came to be.

It's certainly much not but it's still story. And I agree that it's the way Pokémon needs to tell its story despite how little it is.

>>31787767
>>31788013
>>31788034
The fact that most people weren't even aware that it was removed is a sign that it really wasn't needed.

>>31789324
In Sun and Moon at least. The dungeon designs are simple enough as is.

>>31787788

>Implying roaming was good.

>>31789349
It was good in XY.

>>31789356

It was tolerable, not good.

>>31789266
Okay no, just no.
Plasma wasn't trying to liberate Pokemon at all they even give you a scene in the early game where they're both abusing Pokemon.

There's so much that you can take away from Black and White but in the end I suppose the main moral was that the world isn't as black and white as you think it is.

>>31787890
>yes, I remember watching the soccer training of a friend. Then there was this guy who saw that I played ruby, he asked me "do you know about rayquaza", of course I didn´t. He took my gba, brought me to skytower and gave it back. Fuck this was drilling to get up there just to see a fucking green dragon sitting there.

The games still have that, it's just that you're no longer a dumb kid that doesn't bother exploring enough to find the not-even-remotely-hidden areas like Sky Tower.

The one time I come on /vp/ in months after the release of SM, and this is what I fucking see. Holy fuck Pokemon fanbase is full of fucking kids. Reading this thread makes me glad /vp/ exists, so the retards can just stay contained in place.

SM had big cutscenes? Play a fucking RPG. Final Fantasy IX, a normie-tier game released 17 fucking years ago had more cutscenes. While Melemele did indeed go a bit overboard, the rest was pretty fucking normal. SM had no exploration? You go through four fucking islands. You explore quite a fucking bit.

>But no, that's not "fun" exploration! I like it when it's optional! That's the only "exploration"!
Well fuck you, then.

Fuck, I'm so fucking glad GameFreak doesn't listen to autistic retards. I'm so fucking glad SM are doing as well as they are, so GameFreak will make more games like this. For the first time I had fun exploring the region itself and went out of my way to look for shit. For the first fucking time I cared about the shit that was going on in the story, cared about the characters in Pokemon. Except Guzma/Archie 2.0.

>>31789310
Learn to distinct between the story and the lore and setting. Game telling you how Mewtwo came to be is just the fucking setting. Mewtwo did absolutely nothing to add to the story. Same goes for Generation II Legendaries.

>>31789364
>hurrdurr they appear good but are evil! So deep and interesting! Not black and white!
So fucking glad that bullshit didn't sell well. Pokemon are able to express themselves pretty fucking clearly. The moment they said Pokemon are unhappy and people believed that, they fucked up the fucking story. Fucking XY had better story than BW.

>>31789410
So to sum things up you never liked pokemon.

>>31789435
Played the first three Generations because I liked the gameplay, which I still do. Got bored with that in Generation VI and returned with Generation V. They have bullshit story, but the gameplay of Pokemon is pretty unique and fun in its own way. SM fixes that, and while it fucks up a few things, it's still the most "alive" a Pokemon game has ever been.

>>31788061
>Other than that, it's all just battles. The same battles against some low level Rattata that you'll just one shot and be on your way with.

That "this route is a long road with 18 trainers with teams full of shitmons and nothing else" crap from gen 1 and 2 I definitely DON'T miss.

Nothing wrong with battles, but long ass gauntlets of piss easy trainers with the same garbage teams you've one-shotted twenty times before take forever to get through and have never been entertaining.

>>31789463
>SM fixes that
It ruins just about everything the previous games set up anon. Not to mention it's the second smallest region yet next to Johto.

The only reason this game is selling as well as it is now is due to the extreme marketing behind it as well as the resurgence in interest due to Pokemon Go.
You don't honestly think these are good games do you?

>>31787735
Actual exploration.

>>31789463
>the most alive Pokemon has ever been
>in-game TVs don't even play multiple things like it has since Gen III, instead just endless Malasada commercials

>>31789480
Oh, Pokemon GO! How could I forget the thing that died long before SM even released! That must be the reason Pokemon SM has been received so well and everyone is singing its praise!

Honestly, fuck yourself.

>>31789488
>implying people still watch tv in 2017

>>31789497
If you can't pick up on the correlation that the immense amount of publicity to the brand Go brought with its release not even four months prior leading to higher sales on the next mainline title, you may have autism.

>>31789480
>second smallest region yet next to Johto
Is Johto really smaller than Alola?

I feel like Johto is bigger if you count the dungeons and stuff. Places like Mr. Mortar and Ice Path, but also the Team Rocket hideout and Bell Tower.

>>31789497
>How could I forget the thing that died long before SM even released!
You mean the game that still has several million active players and brought Pokemon back into the limelight among the casual crowd.
Also, focusing solely on Pokemon Go doesn't change the fact that SM had some of the most aggressive marketing this series has had in years.

Look, we get it, you don't get many games and you're stuck with this one for now but being this far in denial isn't really healthy anon.

>>31789523
I was thinking more in terms of overworld when I posted that honestly but when you take in the cave systems and such I suppose it is bigger.

>>31787889
Yes. All I want is to be a normal trainer fighting against other normal trainers competing to be the best.

>>31789497
>and everyone is singing its praise!
There's a very, very good reason no one is talking about the gameplay when it comes to praising SM anon.

>>31789410
But that's the thing, Pokemon abuse IS a thing that happens, and its actually frequent enough to be considered that. N's message was fairly solid, but it wasn't backed up with actual display of it in action to actually appeal to a sense of people actually coming to believe him about it, just plasma fucking shit up a lot and trying to be stopped by gym leaders.

If anything was wrong with BW's story, it was that ghetsis is just fucking generic evil. The plot would have benefitted from the end being close to the same, but ghetsis just stuck to the beliefs he taught N, as well as some push about it being part of ancient Unovan history, that way there would be more basis for why kyurem is more relevant in the second half outside of simply being 'oh hey strong legendary to take over world'.

>>31789518
>>31789545
You have trouble comprehending that sales and reviews and overall critical success are different things.

>>31787735
I miss how Gen 1 was the perfection we never knew we needed.

Gen Won.
For life.

All other Gens can go die in a fucking fire.

>>31787836
>Died with gen 4
>When gen 4 had a shitload of roaming legendaries and neat, mysterious places to go

>>31788731
It's the execution that matters and SM were a step in the right direction

>>31789589
>But that's the thing, Pokemon abuse IS a thing that happens, and its actually frequent enough to be considered that.
Name a single trainer that isn't part of the "evil" teams who abuses their Pokemon. I'll wait. Reminder that Silver just wasn't friendly with his Pokemon. There was no "abuse" there.
Oh, and human abuse is also a thing that happens. Pokemon attacking humans is also probably a thing that happens even more frequently. Are we going to separate each and every human, or call Pokemon out for their shit?

>>31789602
Speak for yourself it's been a long time since a game has sold on it's own merits rather than the marketing behind it.

As for reviewers, are you honestly going to trust people who have difficulty playing a Kirby game to review it properly?
Of course they're going to give a game where it's literally impossible to lose a high score.

Basically
Sales + Reviews = good marketing

>>31789636
SM is the game that handled story the worst anon not only was it still "team needs x legendary to win" but it had a metric fuck ton of unnecessary exposition but with very little of that classic pokemon gameplay.

>>31787939
Holy shit this, the clefairy slots were so goddamn fun

>>31789602
It wouldn't be the first time a subpar game was sung high praises by people unfamiliar with the series or genre.

>>31789636
>SM were a step in the right direction

It's literally BW story with less to explore and somehow worse graphics how is that a step in the right direction

>>31789644
You probably won't accept it as an answer, but that was charmander's arc in S1 of the anime, the non-gym gym they run into early on as well and Paul's whole thing in DP anime. The concept that people can treat their pokemon poorly and not be actual evil people is something that has been an element present in the series for a long time, but the games just do a shit job of displaying it for the purposes of the story.

Like it isn't your fault for not knowing that such a thing was an element of pokemon, its the game's fault for not properly demonstrating it via both ingame events as part of plot and smaller bits of optional material.

Also, you seem to miss the point of the callout as well. This isn't 'Team Plasma would be in the right', its 'Humans did nothing wrong is incorrect, and the premise behind allowing plasma to have a radical view'. Team plasma in this instance would be equivocable to peta: using something that happens just frequently enough to justify their radical views and commit worse wrongs.

>>31789728
>This isn't 'Team Plasma would be in the right', its 'Humans did nothing wrong is incorrect, and the premise behind allowing plasma to have a radical view'. Team plasma in this instance would be equivocable to peta: using something that happens just frequently enough to justify their radical views and commit worse wrongs.
Yeah because Plasma totally cares about the well-being of Pokemon.

>>31788407
>VP considers optional areas exploration

But anon, that's literally what it is
Also, it doesn't matter if you "care" about it or not, it's content that is missing/that has been simplified out of existence, and that's what we're talking about here

>>31789728
>bringing up the anime
We're done here.

And just to hammer home how retarded "everyone should release their Pokemon" bullshit was, I'll leave you with this. The shit anime is where Pokemon abuse is actually ever shown, and they cut out the whole "release Pokemon" bullshit FROM the anime, because of how retarded it was. Not to mention that more humans get abused by Pokemon in the anime. The Charizard burned Ash more times than it was "abused".

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>>31787735

>I kinda miss these stupid move sounds and actions

Gen II Aeroblast was the best thing ever. Every animation of the attack since then has made the move feel like it has less impact. Battle Revolution most especially.

>>31789099
Poni meadow was mandatory if you wanted to do the battle tree, the only place that's truly optional is that shitty little cave and the bay with nothing in it

>>31789761
>Exploration: to travel in or through (an unfamiliar country or area) in order to learn about or familiarize oneself with it.
Learn what the word means. Being optional has nothing to do with exploring. Every route you go through, you're exploring that route. Just because there aren't any secret areas to find that the game doesn't require you to explore doesn't mean anything.

>>31789753
You missed the second half of my post, then.

"If anything was wrong with BW's story, it was that ghetsis is just fucking generic evil. The plot would have benefitted from the end being close to the same, but ghetsis just stuck to the beliefs he taught N, as well as some push about it being part of ancient Unovan history, that way there would be more basis for why kyurem is more relevant in the second half outside of simply being 'oh hey strong legendary to take over world'."

What you're desciribing is what SHOULD have been the point. They're extremists and fucking hypocrites, like PETA is, instead of just some generic evil using a guy with some implied charisma as a front (poorly, at that)

These recent posts have shown me people can't into plot comprehension, even when said plot is quite simple.

>>31787813
This. I used to be amazed by the shaymin road, simply for it being so extremely long.

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>>31789767
Gen 3 version was the worst

>>31789801
>What you're desciribing is what SHOULD have been the point.
Are you retarded or something?
Pokemon abuse doesn't happen enough to justify a story centered around extremists. The fact that you had to resort to instances in the anime, which on it's own are few and far between, just goes to show that.

Also you seemed to miss the point of Black and White completely in that it was about the relationship people have with the pokemon instead of something basic like abuse.

>>31789763
You didn't even read my post, you faggot.

"Like it isn't your fault for not knowing that such a thing was an element of pokemon, its the game's fault for not properly demonstrating it via both ingame events as part of plot and smaller bits of optional material."

The anime showed that abuse was a thing, the games clearly wanted to imply it was enough of a thing to be a valid argument someone would listen to. Thus the problem isn't "DURR, THEY DON'T SHOW HUMANS WHO AREN'T EVIL ABUSING IN THE GAMES THEREFORE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN", its "They don't show people abusing in the games, therefore they are not properly illustrating a concept they are trying to imply is a REAL thing that happens in the games as the premise for someone justifying their actions"

And again, the whole 'pokemon hurt people too!' is goddamn retarded when the whole point is that the premise of 'humans sometimes abuse pokemon' is being used to support an ILL FOUNDED EXTREMIST BELIEF SYSTEM that you are NOT supposed to agree with at the end of the day.

>>31789799
as autistic as the guy who bitches about people using the term "art style"

I miss Gen 3 as a whole. I love Double Battles. Pokémon Colosseum and XD were almost exclusively Doubles. Emerald had a lot of Double Battles and I really liked the new Pokémon and sprite art. Fuck the HMs though. I really like the sprite art of FRLG. The game looks really comfy and even though I've played many times, I still love playing.

I wish Rotation Battles were still a thing. I thought they were pretty cool but unfortunately they weren't very common at all.

I miss the abundance of objectives and areas in Pokémon Platinum. There's so many things to do. I also miss the sprite art. Very comfy aesthetically. The game is also somewhat challenging.

>>31789853
>The anime showed that abuse was a thing,
It's a thing, no one is contesting that, but it's literally worthless for a story because it doesn't happen enough for a whole regional team just to be extremists.
That would be the equivalent of an extremist group against jaywalking.

>>31789894
So PETA isn't a thing. Gotcha.

> This isn't 'Team Plasma would be in the right', its 'Humans did nothing wrong is incorrect, and the premise behind allowing plasma to have a radical view'. Team plasma in this instance would be equivocable to peta: using something that happens just frequently enough to justify their radical views and commit worse wrongs.

If only. The problem with this plot comes from the fact that anyone takes them seriously. Each time Ghetsis is giving a speech, people start believing that Pokemon are unhappy. That's bullshit. Team Plasma is shown abusing Pokemon, and no one calls that out. That's bullshit. They attack and steal from a museum, and everyone just lets them go. That's bullshit. They steal from your friend and everyone just forgives them, because they say sorry. That's bullshit. They are seen threatening an old man and stealing from him, and N reveals himself to be the leader of these fags, and everyone just lets all of them go. That's bullshit. When they are finally caught by authorities for their shit, Ghetsis comes and threatens Clay to get them released, and everyone STILL just lets them go. That's bullshit.

After all of this happens, do you know what their excuse is for just letting them do as they please? Team Plasma simply "has a different opinion", and everything isn't black and white, so you shoudn't judge them and just forgive them.

BW's plot was bullshit. Nothing but bullshit. There's no justifying it. The very fact you're treating it as anything but bullshit is mind boggling.

>>31789913
Was relpying to>>31789728

>>31789885
i REALLY miss the endgame island from plat where you had your resort house that you could upgrade. people could just show up and hang out with you, it was so /comfy/

>>31788678
>HGSS bottom screen
While I agree being able to play the entire game with your stylus was great, I miss the PokéNav Plus, with all it's functions, mostly the DexNav, map and PSS.
I think that's a great use of the bottom screen, alongside the Pokétch. If the two could be combined, and add the A button and running shoes, alongside the customizability of the PokéGear, that'd be the absolute perfect bottom screen filler.
Not that we'll even need one in the future due to Switch. ;_;

>>31787823
yeah they really need a "battle stance" instead of a "standing stupidly" default pose

>>31789913
I'm treating the CONCEPT as not shit. The execution was VERY MUCH shit, and it falls short on major things. As I've continued to lay out, PETA is a clear cut example of a society that holds radical views based on a rare occurrence and does actual shit in line with what plasma did, but for the longest time was not considered hypocritical or negative.

Like, if your takeaway is 'BW plot is good', then that's missing the point of my contesting; which was simply against the idea that there is no basis by which the premise of team plasma would work because the world's lore doesn't accomodate for it (which is technically untrue, but the impression of such is the fault of the writers for not properly illustrating their premise).


Effectively, if the world better expressed that abuse was a thing that happened sometimes in the games, then it would be easier to illustrate a premise of Plasma:Aether::PETA:NWF/ASPCA

>>31789913
You sound like you didn't even pay attention. There was a sidequest at the end to catch all of the Seven Sages and Looker arrests them. Ghetsis gets away mainly because of the Shadow Triad. Team Plasma abused Pokemon and shit out of plain sight of the main population who weren't aware of what they were trying to accomplish until it was too late. And hell, a lot of Team Plasma didn't even know what they were accomplishing either if you actually talked to any of the grunts in N's castle.

>>31789885
Man, I do too. Gale of Darkness would basically be enough to put Gen III up there as one of the best, but Emerald was so fucking solid and FRLG had a shitload to do and explore, the Sevii Islands were some of the best things to ever happen to the series.

>>31789767
>Not including the sound

That's most of the impact

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDbmHioLppg

>>31789913
>Team Plasma is shown abusing Pokemon, and no one calls that out. That's bullshit.
That's because it's you against the masses anon.

Think about it for a moment, you could see PETA attacking a dude who poked an animal to see if it's alive right because they're known to commit extreme actions in public like throwing blood on people.
But if you lived in the Pokemon world would you believe Plasma abused Pokemon when their public image is one of total peace? Just about everyone in Unova believed Plasma legitimately cared for Pokemon. Basically all of their wrongdoings were out of sight until the very end of the game.
Not to mention they were very, very minor compared to the other teams who had held up buildings, threatened to erupt a volcano and blew up a lake and it didn't compromise their facade of Pokemon liberation.

As for Clay, they did in fact capture Plasma at one point if you remember right.

>>31787818
>I miss the old awful static sprites because it kicked my imagination into gear, which is a nostalgia trip for me now.

Something similar for me. I miss the more vague overworld.
Playing crystal version AFTER ruby, it felt a lot more mysterious simply because the graphics were worse so boundaries were less clear. Also since I usually played at night the tone was a lot more dangerous feeling to a child, rather than the almost always bright and cheery hoenn region.

>>31790038
The night felt super cozy to me, I really loved it. I'm so sad my internal battery is dead on my crystal.

>>31790038
This is the most retarded thing I've read today.

>>31790045
Buy a new battery

>>31787935
Honestly this. They've kept introducing more and more STAB options, increasing the base power of moves, and ESPECIALLY going crazy with the type coverage (seriously fuck timburr learning rock type moves naturally)
I miss early-mid game of Pokemon hitting each other with whiffle bats.

>>31788324
I remember finding a secret cave in that yellow flower meadow that I had to come back to once I got lapras.

>>31790115
>secret

>>31790115
One area in the entire game that's secret.

>>31790120
It actually was secret, to be fair. It's super well hidden.

>>31789980
Not the anon, but I think the concept was farfetched. The concept was that there was an organization that was trying to liberate Pokemon, which in itself is pretty much an impossible task, and people believed them. Let's use PETA, for example. If they started saying a lot of pets are abused and/or are unhappy, and so everyone should release their pets. Do you think any number of people would believe that? I don't. Now add give those pets ability to communicate their emotions pretty easily, and even make apps that can check how much they love you. Would any number of people still believe that? I don't think so.

>>31790032
>Basically all of their wrongdoings were out of sight until the very end of the game
They literally attack a museum in broad daylight, and Gym Leaders, some of the more important people of the region, are eye witness to that. And this happens by SECOND Gym. Their antics just escalate from their. They were very public about their criminal activities.

>>31790132
The problem you're having here is that you're equating pets to Pokemon.
Pokemon are more than that in the Pokemon world seeing as they're anything from battling partners and tools of evil teams to just useful workers on a construction site. So they aren't exactly the same as the common pets in reality.

You have to consider how it was worded in the game too. They weren't outright asking for a complete separation of people and Pokemon, they were asking for liberation and freedom to allow Pokemon to choose for themselves and be equal to humans in that regard
They were then planning to use that initial confusion to attack and take control.

>>31790221
Also don't forget that most pokemon, unlike pets, are first generation domestication projects. Even if it was purely 'return pokemon to the wild', your entire team was very likely wild caught and thus should be able to return to wild living in some capacity. Plus the whole 'vague wordings allow you to hide disgusting stuff from the public', like PETA does regarding euthanization of domesticated animals because 'any owner at all is bad'.

>>31790174
Pretty sure the first thing they shouted was "we're doing this for Pokemon liberation!"

>>31787958
RBY/FRLG is the perfect example of what I believe pokemon is and should be, and no I am not a genwunner. You get your pokemon and you fuck off. One of the first things you can do in pokemon is miss a rival battle by not exploring. Your rival has minimal dialog yet still feels like a rival and he can kick your shit in if you've been slacking in the grinding. You're never told where to go, it's entirely possible to miss Oak's assistants, it's entirely possible to get lost in caves. You can miss every single legendary. You can even do one or two gyms out of order. The game forces you to explore a bit to get things such as fly or surf. From what I remember only one NPC tells you team rocket is bad and you're otherwise shown through their actions. They still manage feel like a bad group even without the dialog.

In SM there is literally a quest marker on your mini map telling you where to go. It has none of the points mentioned above. I did enjoy SM but I don't think I will ever replay it. I came to connect with my virtual pets though battling and exploring, which is something I cannot do if I'm being held up by some fag's back story. If I wanted story or a break from the gameplay then I would play a spinoff or do something such as pokemon refresh, festival plaza, or go collect those beans.

>>31790335
>Your rival has minimal dialog yet still feels like a rival and he can kick your shit in if you've been slacking in the grinding.
It still amazes me that genwunners believe this.

> You're never told where to go
I mean this shit just isn't true at all. The game doesn't allow you to go beyond Pewter until you've done the gym and the same holds true for the first half of the game.

>>31788712
>who don't want any evolution in the series

Gamefreak is incapable of doing that, so they may as well allocate resources to something else.

>>31788032
>The pokemon fanbase just hates any sort or narrative where shit's going on.

While I haven't played SM (and won't comment on those), you start to hate something that's on repeat for four fucking generations. It's not just the narrative with cover legendary and evil team, it's how the encounters are spaced and how "big" they are, the lack of backstory, the predictable characters etc. etc.

It's too big of an issue to ignore, and it makes the games worse.

On the topic of things I miss, the old cries. A lot of the gen VI versions are just flat out terrible.

>>31790221
>Pokemon are more than that in the Pokemon world
Which is exactly why it's even worse. Pokemon aren't just animals, nor just something useful like what you described. They're treated as people in Pokemon world. Many people love their Pokemon as their family, and most Pokemon are capable of complex thought and return those feelings. In this world, Pokemon don't need spokesmen for them. They are perfectly capable of doing this themselves.

>to allow Pokemon to choose for themselves and be equal to humans in that regard
Which isn't even true. They wanted to everyone to release their Pokemon, whether the Pokemon themselves liked that or not was never something in their mind. N, their leader, himself claims that he will separate Pokemon, even if "Pokémon and Trainers who care about one another, like you and your Pokémon, will be separated as a result".

>>31790366
That's the one thing GF was slowly doing up until Sun and Moon.

>>31790410
That means the problem is on the execution of the narrative.
The pokemon's fanbase problem is that the narrative is there.

>>31790335
>You're never told where to go
One of the first things you do is get told you need to go to Viridian, and then get told you need to go back. You're told literally everything you need to know.
And I still fail to understand why telling you where to go is a bad thing. Not telling you where to go would be the bad thing.

>it's entirely possible to miss Oak's assistants, it's entirely possible to get lost in caves. You can miss every single legendary
You realize those are all bad things, right?

>From what I remember only one NPC tells you team rocket is bad and you're otherwise shown through their actions.
In most, you're not even told that. You see all of it through actions. And by "see", I mean you actually see them do bad things. Not just get find out they did a bad thing after it has happened.

>In SM there is literally a quest marker on your mini map telling you where to go
And again, how is that a bad thing?

>It has none of the points mentioned above
The missable content? I didn't think anyone misses that.

>I came to connect with my virtual pets though battling and exploring, which is something I cannot do if I'm being held up by some fag's back story
No, you can. I did. Quite literally millions of people did.

I don't even know why I bother replying to these. I'm out. This is autism. Not just saying that as an insult. This is actual autism.

>>31790417
>They're treated as people in Pokemon world.
Except they have never been treated as people in the Pokemon world. They're always attached to a trainer like a tool.

>Which isn't even true
>"Now, ladies and gentlemen, Pokémon are different from humans. They are living beings that contain unknown potential. They are living beings from whom we humans have much to learn. Tell me, what is our responsibility toward these wonderful beings called Pokémon?"
>"That's right! We must liberate the Pokémon! Then, and only then, will humans and Pokémon truly be equals. Everyone, I end my words here today by imploring you to consider the relationship between people and Pokémon... and the correct way to proceed. We sincerely appreciate your attention."
You get all of your information on Black and White through memes don't you.

>>31789786
By that logic the bay was mandatory if you wanted the TM there.

>>31788034
to be fair, there are no situations where you'd want to. All the caves and dungeons are just short hallways.

>>31787911

pretty sure everyone with z moves were given the rock by a tapu.

>>31790569
Sweet Scent, Milk Drink etc. are also gone.

>>31790480
The problem is that the narrative is shit, not just the execution.

>The pokemon's fanbase problem is that the narrative is there.

For some, but when you're given a shit narratice or a nonexistent one, I'd go for the latter any day. Not that I mind having a narrative (I would like it to be expanded in some ways), but given GFs streak of poor design decisions and lack of narrative quality, I'm not keeping my hopes up.

>>31790484
>Not telling you where to go would be the bad thing.

Depends on the situation. I think that in some cases the player should be able to decide without any influence or direction. As for Viridian, it's not like you have much choice of destination that early in the game.

>You realize those are all bad things, right?

Are you actually serious? Why should that be considered bad? They're not vital to the progression barring maybe flash (and even that's not essential). Having them non-missable removes half their point, at least the legendaries. And getting lost in caves is a good thing. It's no fun when there's no stakes.

>>31790495
>like a tool

You don't seriously mean this, do you? Have you actually played a pokémon game?

>>31790127
What happened with SM? If the other islands were like Melemele, where there was still a lot of stuff to discover outside of the places you had to go through or you could only access after gaining other things further on in the game, except ramped up in size or complexity, it could've been so much better. You know, things like Melemele Sea, and like what was said before Seaward Cave and Kala'e Bay.

The sad thing is that you can see that possible areas like that were cut, like the Brooklet Hill cave. Even if it was linear like Unova, think of what Alola would've been like if we had to go through complex landmarks like Vast Poni Canyon more often in the story, and still have other landmarks to explore. Chargestone Cave and Mistralton Cave, Reversal Mountain and the Strange House.

The only reason why Poni has that sort of stuff is because you can't access anything beyond Poni Grove until you beat the game, and what makes it worse is that Poni is the smallest island with a piss poor postgame cave and some other linear shit to the Tree.

>>31790590
>where there was still a lot of stuff to discover outside of the places you had to go through
You certainly didn't play the same game as the rest of us.

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I just want to say that I'm proud of you /vp/.

This is a nice thread, plenty of good arguments and it's great to see people exchange their feelings and thoughts about the games like this. No bait or porn has derailed this yet, at least not as of this post.

Faith slightly restored.

>>31790580
>Are you actually serious? Why should that be considered bad? They're not vital to the progression barring maybe flash (and even that's not essential). Having them non-missable removes half their point, at least the legendaries.
Because you can literally miss things. On one hand, you get to experience all of the game. On the other, you can miss some of it, simply because you weren't aware of its existence. FOR NO REASON. There's literally no point in not telling you.

>And getting lost in caves is a good thing. It's no fun when there's no stakes.
Getting lost in a dungeon is fun. Not finding the dungeon itself isn't.

>>31790580
>Have you actually played a pokémon game?
Ironic since each and every game has pokemon used as tools.
Hell in gen 3 the first Pokemon you see are a moving crew.

>>31790625
But that's the best part of exploration. You find good shit you didn't know would be there

>>31790495
>Except they have never been treated as people in the Pokemon world. They're always attached to a trainer like a tool.

"Pokemon are not tools" is the message Pokemon has hammered in your head in LITERALLY every game. Even spinoffs, the manga and all the anime. I'm not going to argue on this point. You need to play a Pokemon game.

>You get all of your information on Black and White through memes don't you.
You claimed they wanted to give Pokemon a choice, which wasn't true. What I gave you was a direct quote from N. They claim they want Pokemon to be "equal", but they aren't considering the Pokemon's feelings. They want to separate Pokemon from humans. That's their "equality". This point has been mentioned many times in the games, like the quote from N I posted. They really didn't consider Pokemon's feelings. They wanted to separate them. There's no memes involved in this.

>>31790610
>Melemele: Seaward Cave, Kala'e Bay, Melemele Sea
>Akala: Hano Beach, barely
>Ula'ula: The fucking lake or something, but even then that's completely accessable before Poni
>Poni: Disregarding the UB quest but not the path to the Tree - Poni Meadow, Resolution Cave

>>31790360
>It still amazes me that genwunners believe this.
Read the first sentence. I believe that gen 3 and 4 are the peak of pokemon designs and art style. Can't say I have a favorite game as they're all mediocre.
As for Green, he may not be a very well written character but he is still someone you would want to beat, which is what I'd consider a rival. Hau is very reminiscent of the XY 'friends' to me, and though I like Gladion as a character I didn't feel much of a desire to overcome him.
>I mean this shit just isn't true at all. The game doesn't allow you to go beyond Pewter until you've done the gym and the same holds true for the first half of the game.
Mistake on my part though it could be argued that that NPC is more like a tutorial, showing you what your objective is and what it looks like. The snorlaxes would be a better example for your argument, but at least you have to figure out how to wake them up on your own.

>>31790484
>And I still fail to understand why telling you where to go is a bad thing.
>You realize those are all bad things, right?
>And again, how is that a bad thing?
Exploration. Figuring things out on your own. It's kind of like being told what to do next in a puzzle game.
>No, you can. I did. Quite literally millions of people did.
Sure but it puts off the adventure and I have to sit around talking listening to family drama for a while. Suppose it's more difficulty that forms attachments.

>>31790625
>On one hand, you get to experience all of the game

Wow, I didn't know a person could be this much fan of hand-holding.

Actually finding it is half the point you dense fuck. Just being told go there and get it removes the entire point of having it optional in the first place. It makes the stuff you find feel more special.

Might as well make every item in caves non-skippable as you might otherwise miss out on something. That's really the extent of your logic here.

>Getting lost in a dungeon is fun. Not finding the dungeon itself isn't.

Did you even read the post? The point was about getting lost in caves.

>>31790626
Let me quote the original post of that argument
>They're always attached to a trainer like a tool.

Note the word always. Note how I never said that pokémon weren't used as manual labor and the like (do you count a person moving a fridge as a tool?) However, saying that they're always tools is wrong as it's spelled out by numerous NPCs how they enjoy just being around pokemon and keep them as their (mutual) friends.

>>31790675
Finding unexpected things, I can understand why you would like that. Making those unexpected things completely missable, I don't.

>>31790691
>Exploration. Figuring things out on your own. It's kind of like being told what to do next in a puzzle game.
I'll just point you towards this anon's post. >>31789799
Just becase you don't have as many things you can miss doesn't mean you're exploring any less.

>Sure but it puts off the adventure and I have to sit around talking listening to family drama for a while. Suppose it's more difficulty that forms attachments.
For you, maybe. All it did for me was allow me to get attached to human characters as well as Pokemon.

>>31790721
>Just being told go there and get it removes the entire point of having it optional in the first place
And my entire point is that there is no point in making a fun or important location completely missable. There is no point in making a Legendary encounter that you'll never know about. Likewise, just letting you know that you should check out Seafoam Islands isn't going to make exploring it any less fun or the encounter with Articuno any less surprising. If you're going to argue it being missable and optional is a big part, explain why.

>Might as well make every item in caves non-skippable as you might otherwise miss out on something. That's really the extent of your logic here.
No, it's not. Missing Potion is no big deal. It would be a big deal if what you're missing is a Master Ball or other important items. That's would what I'm trying to say. Don't make important things missable.

>Did you even read the post? The point was about getting lost in caves.
Are you really going to ignore what I said because I referred to a cave as a "dungeon"?

>>31790727
>Making those unexpected things completely missable, I don't.
Jesus christ how plebeian

>>31787935
>Sandslash in Gen 1 has literally Scratch and Poison Sting for attacking options
>beyond this you have to burn TMs

Not about the games themselves but I miss that period in 2010 before black/white were released.

>>31789767
>Gen 3 had the best animations for just about every move ever

>>>>>>Hyper Beam
Gen 1 Hyper Beam actually felt as threatening as it actually was.
The recharge glitch should have returned in Gen 3 and/or maybe even up the power of the move so it can be re-throned as the best attack in the game. Wouldve been nice for Draco Meteor to have been a Hyper Beam clone instead of an Overheat clone, if it had the mechanics to be just as good.

>>31790624
Except that it has been derailed into bashing the newer games, when the topic was supposed to be about things you miss from older games. I do understand that's a very tempting thing to do when praising older games, but it's still been derailed.

>>31790727
Is it really so hard to understand why it isn't bad to reward players for examining their handcrafted world by giving them helpful Items?

>>31790679
>"Pokemon are not tools" is the message Pokemon has hammered in your head in LITERALLY every game.
And it's poorly enforced as in every game there's an instance of Pokemon being used as common tools. For example
The Machop in Viridian setting the foundation of a building on it's own.
The Electrode batteries in Mahogany although that was Team Rocket.
The Vigoroth/Machoke movers.
Mining mon in both Oreburgh and Twist Mountain. Hell the entire Timburr line are construction workers.
Everything concerning infinity energy in gen 6.
And then there's Hapu's family and the Machoke.

Have you actually paid an ounce of attention to any Pokemon game beyond what they're telling you?

>>31790580
>The problem is that the narrative is shit, not just the execution.
It being shit IS the execution. What do you think execution means in this context?

>For some,
For all, or 99% at least. Even if gf arent master writers when every time the franchise tries to do something a tad more ambitious than the teletubbies is met with loathe, and when most critics stem more from the lack of reading comprehesion's skills at least on par with the franchise's target audience, and when the ashnime still has a following expecting something out of it, the only conclusion is that the narrative existing is the problem to pokemon fans, not its actual quality.

>>31790727
>Making those unexpected things completely missable

You can't really "completely miss them" seeing as they're not completely missable (they're always there). If they were removed after a certain point, then maybe I would partly agree.

>And my entire point is that there is no point in making a fun or important location completely missable

>There is no point in making a Legendary encounter that you'll never know about

You completely miss the point of why they're placed in missable locations. Are you being dense on purpose? The idea is to go out of your way to find something special because you took the time to explore. Not to mention you have a fucking map. If you notice a spot on the map that you haven't explored, then maybe that should work as an incentive to check it out?

Besides, when was an important location hidden away? If it's not essential then it's not important. And while I would like them to hide essential locations a bit more, can you ever claim they have done so?

>Likewise, just letting you know that you should check out Seafoam Islands isn't going to make exploring it any less fun or the encounter with Articuno any less surprising

That's wrong, seeing how it would strongly hint towards something. Exploring from own interest is often much more interesting than getting hints.

>It would be a big deal if what you're missing is a Master Ball or other important items

You seem to be able to draw the line between important and not important rather random. What's important? A TM? A max revive? How convenient.

>Don't make important things missable.

A legendary is not important for anything other than completion (which is not essential for clearing the game).

>Are you really going to ignore what I said because I referred to a cave as a "dungeon"?

The original point was to get lost IN a cave, not trying to find said cave. Bit of a distinction there, but whatever.

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>>31790727
>Just because because you don't have as many things you can miss doesn't mean you're exploring any less
That's exactly what it means. There's literally nothing to draw the eye and make you think the routes are anything beyond a straight simple walk to the exit. Compare any route in SM to this single route from DPPt, not even with the bottom, just the rest after the house.
>Show up in a field full of tall grass concealing trainers who ambush you
>Progress and see fog rising and obscuring yur view
>Scale up a mountainous area with obscured bike paths and surf/waterfall detours
>Concealed rockclimb path leading you to a house that lets you learn the sickest dragon type move ever
>Nice upbeat music along the way https://youtu.be/DGs829KmRp8
This single route is better than the vast majority of the leisurely strolls in SM. Other good routes are Bicycle Path + Turnback Cave and routes 220 into 221.

>>31788101
>being able to catch them all
What is Gen 6

>>31790727
At least to me, finding things on my own makes me feel more immersed and leaves more lasting impressions than doing it because the game told me to. Besides, I think players deserve to be rewarded for bothering to check out what the game has to offer

>>31790910
>And it's poorly enforced

You seem to have a rather odd definition of the word tool. Some of those cases are abuse, and some are just them doing ordinary work like people, especially the movers/miners.

For every instance of them being used as "tools", there's tenfolds more that showcase them as being friends. And there's no strict separation between them. Why can't the miner and his pokémon be friends even if it helps the guy do his job? You're locked into this black and white mentality.

>>31790911
>It being shit IS the execution. What do you think execution means in this context?

Maybe you're thinking a bit more general than me. I was referring to what could be called the execution of the "standard" pokémon narrative and that no matter how this particular narrative is played out it turns to shit as the basis is bad.

I should make it clear that I have nothing against having a narrative at all, and that it should be expanded as the games have (currently wasted) potential in that regard.

>For all, or 99% at least

You're grossly exaggerating. That number isn't even near correct on /vp/, let alone the fanbase in general.

Besides, when the quality is poor over a long time it's reasonable to start questioning why it's there in the first place.

>>31790924
Shit I said Turnback Cave, meant Wayward cave. Both caves really fucked with you. But then there's that feeling when you find the second entrance.
>you will never find a Gible for the first time and raise one of the most monstrous pokemon in existence

>the dress up shoot in gen 4
>pokemon following you
>the photo points in HGSS where you took pictures with your team
>Emerald with the double battles everywhere (playing it on an emulator)
On the last one I love seeing how your team changed throughout the game.

Since everyone's going on about exploration, I'll just come in and say I loved exploring in SM. While there weren't as many optional areas, the routes and towns were pretty fun to explore. It's already been brought up in this thread, but I think the Zygarde Cells were a pretty a good idea. You had your usual TMs and Potions, but also had a Legendary scattered throughout the region. It felt much bigger of a reward than just finding a Potion and I went out of my way to check every place I can for them. I think giving the player a Legendary piece by piece throughout the whole game is better than giving you a Legendary once and be done with it. The Day/Night shit was a bit redundant though.
Of course, to some of you it might not even count as exploring, since it's not optional. But I personally enjoyed "exploring" in SM. More than I have for the past 3 Generations, at least.

>>31790910
>Pokemon are given jobs to do this makes it animal abuse

So Police Dogs are just weapons? Everyone who works an industry job is just a common tool?

The Timburr line TAUGHT HUMANS how to make concrete.
Did it ever occur to you, maybe those Pokemon are happiest doing that?

A Machop using its muscles to move heavy objects or flatten the ground is going to grow stronger as a result.
Vigoroth and Machoke moving things helps them expend the energy radiating from their bodies

>Vigoroth is always itching and agitated to go on a wild rampage. It simply can't tolerate sitting still for even a minute. This Pokémon's stress level rises if it can't be moving constantly.
Vigoroth is simply incapable of remaining still. Even when it tries to sleep, the blood in its veins grows agitated, compelling this Pokémon to run wild throughout the jungle before it can settle down.

> It can lift a dump truck with one hand. Using that power, it helps people with heavy jobs.
> It happily carries heavy cargo to toughen up. It willingly does hard work for people.

>implying rock types and Excadrill etc. dont eat rocks or dig fuckhuge tunnels anyway, theyre just being directed.

Pokemon love to help humans, its a mutual relationship. Pokemon are our friends and our close companions.

>>31791272
>Dress up shoot
Holy shit I didn't even like contests but I always went to that one place to dress up my bros and make them look as cool as possible.

>>31791598
I took them there to humiliate them if they fainted in a battle

>>31791455
I vehemently believe SM was a boring shitshow in regards to travel but I have to kinda agree with you. I liked walking into building and talking to people moreso than any other gen. Zygarde Cells is a great idea and looking for and finding them all is rewarding (except when you cant fucking keep him) but that doesn't make the maps in the game any more shit and lackluster as hell.

>>31791635
>any more shit
Any less shit*

>>31790910
>Having a job means you're used as a tool
Shit worthless NEETs think

>>31791635
Not going to defend the region design. I think Alola had a pretty boring one. On par with Gen 1, 2 or 4. Even worse than those, depending on your preferences. Still don't think it's the worse, but after the great town designs with interesting themes that Gen 5 and 6 had, it felt incredibly underwhelming.

>all this SM defense force coming out of the woodwork

SM did a lot of things right but don't pretend like the story was acceptable

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>>31787735
I miss the chibi character overworld sprites/models. realistic sized models were ok in S/M but by island 2 I started to realize how empty the world was.

Its too fucking bad that the majority of players are graphic whores, because if GF were to go back to chibi models or even sprites they'd bitch about it regardless if it allowed way bigger maps/levels more populated cities actual enterable buildings or even more personality in the pokemon sprites.

Also fuck the PC's walking animation.

I wish they actually used all of the walking animations. Being able to have your bro or waifu walk by your side and grow with you was the tightest shit. Also the forts in gen 4 were fun

Stealthy genwunning and nostalgia delusions thread

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>>31792072
>waifu
Why are degenerates like you allowed to have pokemon?

The only things I miss are rivals that felt more like rivals, legendaries that took actual effort to acquire, and seasons.
Everything else has been an improvement so far.
Game Freak certainly did learn their lesson with XY's mistakes.
SM made me feel a lot of that wonder and excitement I had when I played Pokémon for the first time. I haven't been so engaged in the series for quite a while.

>>31791665
While I like gen 5 and 6's interesting themes, I also feel they suffer from a degree of lack of coherence, especially in tying their game's lore into the region's feeling itself. Gen 5 and 6 feel like a lot of snapshots of nice places, gen 7 feels like an actual place. It could do to be bigger and more populated to an extent, though.

>>31792208
Same, I really felt everything you were talking about. Truly a great game. Just don't keep playing it, you're in for a very disappointing post-game experience.

>>31791774
op here tbqh, I actually liked the story. Yeah many people here are saying it´s the same shit, but for me SM felt more like a nice vacation trip.
>chilling around
>focus on character development and not that much on legendaries.
>comfy region

Also that nebby is your cover legendary was also awesome and it would have been better when I wasn´t spoiled as fuck.

>>31790031
oldschool bit sounds > other shit

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>>31792222
Alola was definitely more realistic. It's just realistic doesn't equal interesting for me.

>>31791774
THE only reason I'm bothering to defend SM is because I loved the story. That alone made me like the game as a whole, and the rest was just afterthought.

>>31792228
The first games in their generation have never had any meaningful postgame.
/vp/ always forgets this for some reason.
My problems with XY were with how underdeveloped everything was, from the region, to the characters, and many of the new features.

>>31791774
The story was pretty much the only thing I liked about SM.

>>31792238
Oh, I can defs agree with that; but at the same time, I would like to have both interesting and coherent. Not like BLARGLFLARGLE MAKE EVERYTHING SUPER REAL, but like, Gen 6 could have REALLY used some more unifying motifs and integration of the meteor and the long war into a lot more of the culture overall, since without that it just kinda sticks out as 'here's the plot important thing that we're gonna exposit at you about now'. I think people are right about cinnibar mansion being a good thing, but not in the 'its good plot', but rather in a 'its good for immersion purposes'; something that gen 7 also did amicably. That's the big thing I hope they take from the enjoyment of 5/6/7, at least.

Actual exploration. There was next to none of that in alola

>>31787958
Cutscenes in pokemon are almost entirely uninteresting

>approach spot
>screen fades
>hau runs up, puts his hands on the back of his head and smiles
>dude trials i love malasadas i'm gonna go to the malasada shop before i do the trial
>lillie comes up
>her bag shakes
>get in the bag nebby my mom bought my clothes my z powered form is coming soon
>all while they're standing in one spot, gesturing every so often, after which text boxes appears

Sun and Moon are by far the most replay unfriendly games. I simply do not care about Lillie or Hau in the slightest, and yet the entire game revolves around Lillie. I hate the whole "THE STAKES HAVE NEVER BEEN HIGHER" plotlines, just let me go through the region without railroading me into the next 5 minute long cutscene

>>31787735
Not the anime
Not the anime
Not the anime
Not the anime
Not the anime