>this is the current state of OU

>>31742058
don't worry, soon diglett and trapinch will end up in ubers where they belong

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>>31742058
DELETE

>>31742058
>Metagross user not using spikes/stealth rocks/toxic spikes
What a fucking scrub.

>>31742058
I wanna say that the guy asked for it. Having no entry hazards when Sash Dugtrio is very common is a pretty dumb idea.

>>31742058
>Smogon's fanfic meta is falling apart

What a surprise that banning numerous strategies might have negative impacts on the state of the game.

>>31742083
...says the board that wants to ban Stealth Rock.

>>31742083
To be fair letting gamefreak have any control over balance also has negative impacts on the state of the game

>>31742095
The difference is that Stealth Rock is genuinely unhealthy and overcentralizing unlike Dugtrio.

>>31742058
showderp.jpg

STOP POSTING SHIT ABOUT SMOGON YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS.
These threads are cancer. Absolute FUCKING cancer. We get it, Smogon is shit. Now you can stop posting about them and giving them attention.

If you hate Smogon so much, why not just make your own fucking competitive website, with its own tiers? You have all this free time to bitch about Smogon, why not use it for something useful?

Oh, wait. It's because that's all you good for nothing NEET losers can do. Bitch, bitch, bitch. You just sit at your computer, in your parents basement, leeching off their hard earned money, so you can bitch about a fucking kids game. And when you aren't bitching, you're masturbating to animals from said kids game. The world would literally, actually LITERALLY, be a better place if you all just fucking killed yourselves.

>>31742107
>cancer posts about cancer
Okay.

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>This is the state of OU

>>31742178
Why the fuck would that retard not use Psychic?

>>31742184
Have you ever heard of choice items?

>>31742100
>Dugtrio, a stall staple in every single team that is imposible to deal with on its own and can guarantee a loss by itself at any time isn't centralizing
>A single move, that deals massive damage to 2 pokemon and little damage to everything else, easy to clear with multiple moves on a myriad of pokemon and that help deal with the cancer that is stall is
You know nothing, go back to playing VGC and sucking verlis' furry cock

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>>31742058
>not using Mega Metagross
>not using entry hazards

>>31742221
Oh, you! You're only helping to prove his point!

>play the only format where stall is playable
>complain about it
???
I don't get it, if it bothers you, then stop playing this format, literally anything else it better than 6v6 singles

>>31742100

Sometimes I wonder why absolute retards like yourself are allowed to turn on a computer.

>>31742066
How many hazard setters can get past Sableye again?

>>31742076
That's Diglett you idiot.

>>31742107
Fucking kill yourself, there are only two genders

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>>31742058
>this is the current state of NU-PU

>>31742749
>not running hazards on unexpected pokemon just to catch sableye

>>31742749
those belonging to people that put enough effort to actually play around it.

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>Diglett
>55 Atk

Pfffft, he can't be that stro-
>252+ Atk Diglett Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross: 90-108 (58 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>252+ Atk Diglett Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 67-81 (19.4 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO

people should be using trapinch

an adamant base 95 mon isn't even fast

>>31742991
>possible 5hko

holy fuck... how can the meta deal with this new threat......

>>31742058
>not running Bullet punch

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>>31742221
14 years and counting. What's your excuse, underage?

>>31743028
>running bullet punch in "shit got weird": the meta
this is why you never win

>>31743033
Yes but I don't get killed by sucker punching Dugtrio

>>31743032
What is this supposed to mean? do you even understand what I posted?

>xd underage
oh, so you didn't

>>31743040
that's a diglett

>>31743045
Oh shit I didn't look at the OP close enough

>>31743041
>muh centralizing Dugtrio
>muh stall

The same crap that every underage scrub cries about.

Back then, we didn't have team preview and Dugtrio would murder some of our few reliable set up sweepers like Metagross and Tyranitar with no warning, and we just dealt with it instead of crying to ban it.

>>31743086
That was before Dugtrio had a good attack stat though anon

>>31742058
Your fault for not using Jolly Salac Berry Bullet Punch Metagross 2bh.

>>31743086
Thing is you can't deal with it here you dumbass, shit has changed since gen 3 believe it or not, and now dugtrio can kill 1 pokemon in your team and cause you to lose. Take out one threat to the rest of the stall team, and they can make you spend the next 100+ turns in a slow decline to losing. People can deal with stall with checks and counters, but dugtrio can just trap and kill those, leaving you with nothing.

And you can fuck right off with the "back in my days we weren't pussies" argument grampa, you sound like a triggered genwunner

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>Playing OU in this gen
It's almost like you enjoy playing against overpowered piles of shit that would've been banned to ubers faster than you could spell their names if you released them 2 gens ago.

>>31743096
It doesn't matters. The state of the game meant that it could run Choice Band, making it much more dangerous than today.

OP's pic includes Sucker Punch. There's no Sucker Punch in ADV, you take damage to the inevitable Spikes and then get OHKOed by Earthquake.

>>31743122
So just like before. You lose your Tyranitar and you have trouble closing the game because you just lost your most reliable set up sweeper. You lose your Heracross and now Swampert can shit all over your face. You lose your Metagross and now you can't Agility and clean up or hell, Choice Band Explode to finally remove Skarmory.

You sound like a triggered underage who can't accept the truth. You're fucking pussies nowadays. Being this much of a bitch to stall of all things, really? The default of the game was stall for three gens straight. If you just want to press buttons and see things die, go play Yokai Watch or Digimon.

>>31743086
Except that now Dugtrio got a attack boost, which allows him to OHKO some things that were a 2HKO and 2HKO some things that were a 3HKO.

>>31742058
Smogon should make a new tier to balance this shit. If OU got split in half it would not be this ridiculus

>>31743171
you don't even understand how stall works do you? you can't just use another pokemon unless you built your team specifically for stall, in which case HO and balance will shit on you.

You act as if you can just send in another pokemon to kill dugtrio and keep winning. Once you lose the very specific mon dugtrio was sent out to eliminate, the stall team doesn't have to worry since you lack the tools to get around it. You could still win through luck, but your odds are greatly lowered.

furthermore, this discussion started because you said "SR is actually centralizing", we can apply the same logic here, if your volcarona just got fucked by SR why not send out a tyranitar who doesn't care about those rocks? what makes SR unhealthy when its so easy to take care of, but something as centralizing as dugtrio is alright?

And you can fuck off with that last bit too, do you just want stall and no other play styles? if Smogon bans things to help stall not become irrelevant, it's only fair they do the same for HO and other strategies.

>>31743171
>The default of the game was stall for three gens straight
Nigga Wut? Not only is there no default, but what three gens are you referring to?

>>31743171
>running choiceband

The entirety of the new buff is that it can 2HKO most anything. It requires sash to be effective or Metagross could easily kill it like seen above

Holy fucking shit, this board is actually retarded

>>31743202
>you said "SR is actually centralizing"
No I didn't. I've just entered this discussion because of the Arena Trap bitching.

>you don't even understand how stall works do you?
I've literally just said that I grew in stall.

>Once you lose the very specific mon dugtrio was sent out to eliminate, the stall team doesn't have to worry since you lack the tools to get around it.
Yeah, just like before. Except that now we have team preview and can see it coming.

>>31743219
You didn't know?

>>31743226
Well if we make the assumption that you've been the same anon the whole time even with your similar sentence structure see >>31742100

>>31743232
I don't come to this board often, but every time I do it just reaffirms my beliefs

>>31743243
Honestly, it's every board. All of 4chan. Actually, it's every website. the entirety of the internet

>>31743243
This board was from birth born to be a quarantine board, what did you expect?

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>>31743219

>>31743226
>No I didn't. I've just entered this discussion because of the Arena Trap bitching
so you're not >>31742100 ok

>I've literally just said that I grew in stall.
then you should know it takes effort and teambuilding to defeat it, one of these is completely negated by dugtrio though

>Yeah, just like before. Except that now we have team preview and can see it coming.
But you can't do anything about it. If you don't send in the stallbreaker first, they send their own and begin fucking you up, if you do, they send in dugtrio and kill it. If anything it helps stall since now it knows what it needs to take care of.

>>31742229
This is the actual replay, he was using Mega-Metagross
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7oususpecttest-531415248

>>31743282
Ah cool thanks for the vid!

>>31743006
That's on 16+ def Filter Mega Aggron.

Reminder that only filthy subhuman niggers and fat neckbeard beta virgin white male feminists play games competitively
This is fact
No matter how much you try to deny it it will remain a fact

>>31743171
>Being this much of a bitch to stall of all things, really?

What the fuck is your point? Stall is a shitty playstyle.

>>31743171
>The default of the game was stall for three gens straight. If you just want to press buttons and see things die, go play Yokai Watch or Digimon.

Outed yourself as a Stallfag. Because switching over and over again isn't just clicking buttons?! Kek. Go kys, Stall requires no more strategy than HO and Balance, even less with Dugtrio around.

The fact that you sissies can't handle Arena Trap on Dugtrio is embarrassing, especially when most of the time it's only carrying shit like Earthquake and Reversal.
Are you all going to want to get Diglett and even that fragile and slow piece of shit that is Trapinch eventually too?
There's Pokemon that aren't in tiers below OU that can take care of Dugtrio.
Are you all really afraid of using a single Pokemon or two that are not OU staples?
Smogon's handholding made y'all into babies that can't think for yourselves.
I bet you're all the kind of people that use 6 standard sets, change a move or two and think you're hot shit.
Smogon's analyses were supposed to be a guide.

>>31743451
There are Asians who have made more money playing vidya competitively then you will ever see in your life.

>>31743459
Yes, but they're asian, so who really loses in the end?

>>31743464
(You) do

>>31743464
yeah, still you

>>31743457
What pokemon is faster than dugtrio and can either break sash first turn or tank an EQ/Reversal/SP at 100 attack and -2 Def?

>>31743457
Are you retarded? If Smogon is suspecting Dugtrio then that means even the pros or even the best of the best can't handle it.

>>31743491
The Smogon "pros" who suspected Gengar twice and then rigged the second test to ensure it's banned? The Smogon "pros" who suspected Sableye twice because they didn't like the first results? The Smogon "pros" who quick banned a bunch of popular things without a proper test because they didn't want to deal with them?

>>31743464
>>31743451
Fuck off to >>>/pol/ you degenerate.

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>>31743519

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>>31743478
>Mold Breaker Stealth Rock

>>31743530
Fuck off to /pol/ you degenerateS.

>>31743542
Oh sorry, did I break your safe space?

>>31743548
Well done. I tip my fedora to you comrade.

>>31743451
But smogon singles are competitive
they're casual battles anon
that's the point

>>31743566
aren't*

>>31743537
>Faster than dugtrio

>>31742749
Nihilego

>>31743588
>Stealth Rock negates Focus Sash
>Dugtrio now can't function properly for the whole match

>>31742184

Lots of people on Showdown think Salandit is a dark type lol

>>31743645
>What is not switching into mega metagross when bepples are up

Alternatively

>What is defog, a common staple on Zapdos and Skarmory

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APOLOGIZE!

YOU WANTED HIM DEAD, AND GAMEFREAK COMPLIED, ALL TOO WELL!

IF TALONFLAME WAS STILL AROUDN, NONE OF THIS BULLSHIT WOULD BE HAPPENING!

>>31743764
Talon flame can't do shit to stall even if gale wings wasn't nerfed.

>>31742247
Singles is the only good format. OU is the tier that has the annoying stall teams with Doug in it. Retards complaining should play UU.

>>31743764
RIP Brabest Birb.

>>31743790
>Singles is the only good format
do people really believe this ?
I understand that karenfags can enjoy smogon's format because banlists can allow their shitmons to be useful, but are there really people thinking that singles is anything but a casual format ?

>>31743776

Prenerf Talonflame buttfucks the two things that are making stall so strong in the first place.

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>This is the current state of OU

>>31743824
This can't be real

>>31743817
Like Toxapex?

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>>31743824

>>31743840
Maybe they were expecting a switch because they assumed the opponent assumed they were switching. An over prediction, not that rare

>>31743849
Oh wait nm, reread it that is not the issue here.

>>31743841

Toxapex is overrated.

I'm talking about Mega Sableye and Dugtrio.

>>31743032
But way back then there was no focus sash anon

>>31743807
Fuck off, go play your shitty protect on everything/stall the clock format you, verlis loving VGC fag

>>31743898
Nobody likes verlis, faggot

>>31743881
Spikes was omnipresent in that meta. Choice Band would still be the best choice.

>>31743911
Casuals do

>>31743824
Always knew that three times flying immunity would come in hand on Rotom-Fan

>>31742066
>Hazards when stall carries mega-sableye along with skarm to defog anything that manages to get past sab

>>31743457
Smogon actually believes that using shit from lower tiers as an answer to the OU meta is a bad thing, and even use that as an argument for banning something.

last time I played smogon literally every stall team was eviolite chansey, scarm, mega sableye, dugtrio, toxapex and filler

is it still the same

>>31743457
im inclined to agree. player responses to certain threats seem to have changed over time. a standard should have been set during dp on how to appropriately handle growing power creep with each new gen

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>>31744040
>lets stall have full reign over his team
>complains about stall on online boards

>>31744065
>scarm

>>31744065
Yes

>>31743807
As someone who tried out Doubles it's no better than Singles.

Do you turd eaters even realize that by putting up arbitrary rules you've actually made the competitive game even less balanced than it already was?

Smogon is fucking cancer. No rules, everything at your disposal. That's how Pokemon is meant to be played

Anything else is a bastardization that doesn't deserve to be thought about, let alone discussed in a 109 fucking post thread on an angry virgin forum

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>>31745238
>That's how Pokemon is meant to be played

You mean like this? :^)

>>31744055
Lolwut? Some mons are OU just because of how antimeta they are. Marowak-A, Tangrowth and Magnezone would be UU at most without the threats they exist to check.

>>31745266
thank god for vgc 16

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>>31745266

I wish Smogon didn't have a genuine obsession with stall

I miss le bravest.

>>31745238
>No rules, everything at your disposal. That's how Pokemon is meant to be played
The very first official tournament had a sleep clause you turbo retard

What's needed is to buff cinccino's speed and attack by 6 or make another really fast skill link abuser to end this

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>>31742100
>How do i defog?

>>31745436
Cincinno meta when?

>>31745238
>I don't know that AG exists

Quality thread. Really shows /vp/'s competitive genius.

>>31745482
>switch in your defogger
>use defog
>opponent spams stealth rocks until you run out of pp


got 'em

>>31742749
excadrill and rampardos

>>31742749
the ones that know fairy moves

>>31742107
you almost had a valid point, but you're a fucking tripfag so literally fuck off and never come back to this board again you annoying fuck

>>31745238
lmao you're a fucking moron, if it wasn't for these rules everyone would be running 4 to 6 ubers who sweep your shit in 2 seconds unless you run the same broken shit as the other guy

>>31742107
Ya know Jimbo, despite there being over 7 billion humans in the world, each and every single one of them is only one of two genders. Now aint that just quakin' crazy?

>>31744055
>I don't know how tiers by usage rates work

>>31745859
you act like smogon just looks at the statistics and automatically shuffles everything into tiers based on that. but that's not the case, if they did, there would be no rulemakers because everything would just be decided by an algorithm

in reality they get together and look at the statistics and then make a biased decision on how they should act on those statistics based on how much they love certain playstyles and moves

>>31745511
Well a scarfed cinccino could counter dugtrio effectively. The problem is the rest of OU

Has there ever been a pokemon that jumped to OU just to counter another OU mon? Sorry I'm slow with meta.

>>31745963
A-Marowak is OU just to counter the Tapus and Pheromosa.

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>>31742107
Why must you shitpost so much? Why am I responding?

>>31745947
But that is how it works retard, with the obvious exception of banlists. And don't tell me that not banning anything ever is a good idea.

>>31745963
a dug wont stay in with a cinccino though and with arena trap it'll be hard to switch it in on a dug

>>31745963
You can't counter something that traps you.

>>31746264
Are you can idiot?
If you kill the pokemon the ability stops having an effect on you.

>>31743192
AU - Average Use

I always found it odd how it has Underused and Overused, but no tier in between (besides the BL mini ban lists that seem to exist for every tier)

>>31746289
How do you kill something that is faster than you and can KO you? Normally you can just switch to something else, but Dugtrio removes that option.

>>31743518
>because they didn't like the first results
>because they didn't want to deal with them
You don't have to play Smogon, don't be a tool by pretending to know something about it when you actually have no idea what the fuck you're talking about though.

>>31745963
In Gen 3, Magneton was OU only because it could trap and OHKO Skarmory.

In gen 6, Mandibuzz was OU for a while only because it could wall almost all variants of Aegislash.

>>31746374
I've been playing Smogon since 2005.

Only the most dense of the drones don't see anything wrong with their current tiering.

>>31746394
What is wrong with their current tiering then big boy?

>>31745238
As someone who topped 1 on the Anything Goes Ladder, it is literally a game of coin flips.

>>31746289
I think you're the idiot here. Nobody sends Dugtrio unless they're going for the kill.

Revenge killing =/= countering. Either way, for your Cincino they'd just send in Skarmory. Congratulations, they got a free switch and Dugtrio will come back later to kill something else.

>>31746404
I've just said them. >>31743518
Unlike you who are literally just shitposting.

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>>31743764

>>31746010
>counter tapus

It counters Pheromosa and Tapu Lele only

>>31746570
I meant
*tapu koko

>>31745310

>tfw you forgot about the lovely Water Wall, Sir Jellicent

I'm...sorry Jelly-chan

>>31746570
>>31746576
Tapu Bulu can't touch him.
Xurkitree can't touch him.
Kartana can't touch him without Night Slash (which you only see on Scarf Kartana).
Magearna can't touch him.
Any pokemon that relies on BoltBeam + Fire/Fighting/Grass coverage can't touch him (Thundurus, Raikou, Magnezone, Zapdos)
He walls a number of gen 6 threats that are still viable (Volcarona, Scizor lacking Knock Off)

With Thick Club and Flare Blitz, he can hit anything that switches into him very hard. Shadow Bone is a decent move that hits most targets neutrally and will deal a good chunk of damage, or he can set up Stealth Rock or even Will-o-Wisp if his main counter is a physical attacker.

>>31746700
>he

>tapu bulu can't touch him
Stone edge
>Kartana can't touch him without night slash

Literally every Kartana runs night slash

>Volcarona
ALways runs hidden power ground

>>31743163
Power creep happens, although I certainly agree with you that OU isn't really worth playing at the moment. The Tapu's field generators change the game a little too much and give them so much free power and protection that you're required to use them. Landorus is everywhere, with some of the highest usage rates, comparable to Gen 5 Tyranitar.

There's just not enough variety right now.

>>31746791

Singles was doomed from the start, it's telling that it's the ONLY format where stall is still a valid and dominant strategy.

>>31746949
I still like singles. It's pretty fun in UU now that most of the things too strong for the tier got axed. But stall is still very strong, this is true.

>>31742058
>No shed shell

>>31743478
Crobat.
>Faster than Dugtrio
>Immune to EQ
>Can Defog to remove entry hazards.

>>31747025

>Expecting Smogon to use items or alternative methods/strategies to solve their problems instead of slapping a choice item or lefties/LO on everything under the sun

>>31747025
>mega

>>31746949

>dominant

This is the first time stall has been good since Gen 3.

>>31747043
You know that Shed Shell is the second most popular item on Lele, right

>>31747043
Yeah just let me slap Shed Shell on every wall breaker so that I don't auto lose to Stall at team preview. Seems really fun.

>>31747057

>Let me just use OU Pokemon so I don't auto-lose to OU: The Movie: The Game at team preview

Why are you going to bitch about having to do certain things to win games when you already do that.

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>>31747043
>put a shed shell on my wallbreaker
>now chansey and skarmory aren't 2HKOed

>>31747094
Because this certain thing is done to win a certain matchup. Your wallbreaker is pretty much useless in any other matchup on the account you gave it fucking Shed Shell so that you can win the matchup against Stall. It's not fun and there's no creative solution, the only solution is crippling your team.

>>31747120

Why not pick a Pokemon that can run Shed Shell and not be crippled by it?

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>>31747139
Because there are none.

>>31747139

Lol

>>31747154

Prove it.

>>31747139
Ah yes, a wallbreaker that isn't crippling by running shed shell such as... a physical Hoopa that doesn't even 2HKO Chansey. Fantastic idea. See >>31747105

>>31747139
Top fucking kek. I can tell your new to Pokemon

>>31747169
To clarify, the reason I said physical is because the only way a non specs Hoopa is killing something is Gunk Shotting a Clef

>>31747139
This has to be bait and you all fell for it.

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>31747139
(You) almost got me there, anon

>>31742107
i disagree. complaining always makes things better. if it doesn't change smogon, then at the very least i can find someone else with similar opinions to mine and we can talk about what we would like instead. If you don't share my opinion fine, but don't tell me to stop sharing my own.

>>31742107
Not real jimbo, sorry.

>>31742153
>>31742943
>>31745654
>>31745799
>>31746107
This isn't the real Jimbo retards.

what if they just carpet bombed all trapping
mean look
block
magnet pull
arena trap
etc.
what would /vp/ say

>>31747053
Pretty sure Stall was pretty good in Gen 6.

>>31747037
See the thing is Dugtrio isn't forced to stay in on Crobat. It can just switch out into one of its partners.

>>31743478
>>31747037
>>31748414
Really, the initial question is flawed. Obviously a lot of pokemon can beat a Dugtrio one on one.

The question has to be "What pokemon can break Chansey, Skarmory/Toxapex, and Clefable/Quagsire, but also doesn't get revenge killed by Dugtrio?"

>>31748479
Fast Fighting type/Arm thrust skill link abuser when?

>>31748479
Hawlucha?

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>>31748574
RELEASE ME

>>31748635
Can't power through Skarm or Toxapex, pretty sure Clef beats it too

>>31748635
>244 Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory:
>94-112 (28.1 - 33.5%)

>244 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Toxapex:
>76-91 (25 - 29.9%)

Those are without a Swords Dance.
If you're relying on a Swords Dance then the issue becomes
>244 Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire:
>135-159 (34.2 - 40.3%)

>244 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Clefable:
>169-199 (42.8 - 50.5%)

It's not looking great for him.

>>31748398

Stall was garbage in Gen 6 my friend. Outside of the brief Gothitelle era.

>>31742178
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>31749861
Was Stall a thing in gen 5? I kinda skipped that whole competitive gen and I've heard lot's of stories about it, like chansey dying because of a rain-boosted Hydro Pump.

>>31750056
Rain stall was a thing with Tentacruel, Politoed, Blissey and Ferrothorn.