N And/Or Lillie Thread

But why? They are both shit.

A better question would be Silver or Emma.

>>31728492
Gary >> Cynthia > Everyone else > Shit >>> N = Lillie
Trying to remember a main plot character in the main series that isn't garbage.

>>31728492
Lillie > N

Lillie has a vagina!

>>31728650
>Gary
Immediately discard

N > Lillie

N wasn't interrupting my experience with a forced lesbian romantic subplot.

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>>31728650
Almost forgot
>the entirety of x & y

>>31728492
>N=Lillie
In how shit they are. Both are uninteresting characters with the most generic lines imaginable, and yet of course, friendless autists worship both of them.

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>>31728667
>not liking gary
I bet your favorite antagonist is that edgy kiddo who just needs a hug

>>31728492
N = Lillie

Both of them broke the typical status quo of a regular Pokemon game.

As someone who doesn't care about story plots and only focuses on playing the damn game at the most time, characters like them manage to caught my attention and it makes the experience even better.

Lillie > N

I can stand Lillie because at least she heals my Pokemon everytime I was fucked up and I needed to. Her story was tedious and I can't give a single fuck about her problems but she has done her role of NPC companion pretty well at the end.

N was a tedious faggot trying to push his shitty liberal ideas with a lot of cutscenes that I tried to skip so hard at that time. Literally I can't give a single fuck about him. Not to mention he doesn't even was a challenge and only made the game be more longer than it needed to be.

>>31728744
>edgy kiddo who just needs a hug
you mean Gary?

>>31728887
>he doesn't even was
Damn I'm retarded
I mean he wasn't even

>>31728492
Lillie >>>>>>> N
One has a realistic personality and great design, as well as great development, the other is has no personality and is a just a whole bunch of Gary Stu traits put together, whose very existence is stupid on so many levels.

>>31728492
> N > Lillie
I like both but N has a lot more going on with him

>>31728492
>Muh Pokemon: the character
Yeah, I'll take Lillie over him any day. Not to mention I hated how everyone constantly sucked his dick for no reason at all.

They are both shit but
> N > Lillie

Lillie is fucking boring character with mother issues who get the player in this mess excuse of story that was SM (why forced romance? Why changed design? Legendary Pokemon...just, why?).
N is also boring with no personality, but I at least enjoy his story that give some interesting background. Ah, you get to fight him, so it's a pro.

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>>31728492
N will never be as shilled as Lillie is and will be so so I imagine Lillie will be getting a bit more hate on this board in the future.

>>31729428
>as shilled as Lillie is
What? Has the word completely and totally lost all meaning now?

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I honestly like Lillie slightly more solely as a character, but you can also mess with N pretty well through dialogue options similar to how you can mess with Hau. My favorite is in Chargestone Cave, where he asks if you have a dream. If you say no, you can clearly tell he wasn't expecting that and tries to make up an excuse to fight you anyways to satisfy his autistic obsession with you. It's pretty hard to decide either way.

Zinnia is the best forced devwank character because she's just the right level of social retardation and general stupidity that she's amusing on her own. Or AZ unironically so, but he's so low-key I wouldn't consider him truly one like the other three are.

>>31729493
>I honestly like Lillie slightly more solely as a character
Waifufags needs to be gassed.

>>31729574
I can appreciate her background of zero self-esteem wimp slightly more than chosen one who can talk to Pokemon. It's a tiny bit more down to earth. I don't really like her or N much at all regardless at the end of the day, which is why it's hard to decide.

>>31729608
N was the best fucking thing to happen in Pokemon, as far as characters are concerned. Talking to Pokemon, yet failing to see the truth gave depth to his character. You need to stop thinking with you dick.

N>Lillie
Is this even debatable?

>>31729625
But anon, the best character in Pokemon is Hau. He's got hidden layers. Like an onion.

N >>>>>>> Lillie

>>31728492
N is relatable (to me, personally. I know he isn't to most people, and that's fair), good-looking and has actual character development.

Lillie is relatable (again, personally), albeit also a fucking pussy, but also adorable and has actual character development.

I love both of them. They're on my Top 3 characters list. They got more love from GameFreak than almost any other character has ever gotten, which I think did well for them. GameFreak just has the tendency to put too much focus on it when that happens, though, which I think is the main problem with these kinds of characters. Lillie is almost more protagonist than the actual protagonists, and N is a know-it-all. I wish GameFreak would just stop shilling it whenever they actually bother to write proper characters. Just look at what happened to Zinnia.

>>31728941
Not that anon but replaying RBY again made me realize that Green/Blue/whatever was actually pretty chill and wasn't that much of a dick.

>>31729699
Hau is the only character in Pokémon that has ever made me angry. Like actually angry. He's so fucking annoying during the first climax of the game, like a small 5 year old who doesn't realize the whole world is about to be destroyed and keeps making poop jokes despite people telling him to shut the fuck up.

>>31729722
Same here. I recently re-played LeafGreen, and Blue is actually more of a big-mouthed friend who just sometimes forgets what is and isn't okay to say than an actual edgy dick.

>>31729722
That's why Blue's actually good. He's a pretty good depiction of what a life-long friend might be like.

But most people just like him because they think he's just an antagonizing dick.

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>>31728492
N one of the worst characters to come out of Pokemon. Still not the worst, but close. Everything about him is bullshit. Bullshit of the highest level.

First of all, what even was his fucking point? Pokemon are not happy? That's fucking bullshit. As another anon pointed it out, Pokemon literally evolve by Happiness. There are moves that are used with Happiness. You can check a Pokemon's happiness with a fucking watch. There are people who can understand a Pokemon's feelings by looking at their fucking footprints. You, a fucking kid, can tell a Pokemon's feelings by just looking in HGSS.
Yet, despite all this, N believes Pokemon are not happy. And /vp/ thinks he's """""""""deep""""""""" for that. No, he's fucking retarded. That's it. His "development" is basically the same as realizing you breath air. That's not fucking development. And he realizes that only after you beat him into submission. He's shit.

Next, his personality. He has none. All he does is talk about Pokemon. There's nothing else to him. First, it was about how Pokemon are abused, which is bullshit. Then it is about that people and Pokemon should live together. No fucking shit. They already do. There's no character to him.

Then, his role. He was the "rival" of protagonist. Why? Because they wanted you to suck him. He was the leader of a criminal organization, and all everyone did was chat with him. He said he hated seeing Pokemon get hurt, yet battle you. Many fucking times. And each and every time, you let him go, even though you knew he was insane and up to no good. Not only that, after you do beat him at the end, everyone forgives him for no fucking reason.

His setting was even more bullshit. Had to look through the archive to find it, but pic related basically shows his setting as a character. He's a bigger fuck up than Kirito, and he's having his dick sucked just as much as him. Just goes to show Pokemon fandom really is full of fucking kids trying to act like they understand shit.

>>31729732
>>31729741
He not only never helped you, in fact even tried to sabotage your journey by telling his sister not to give you the map, thrown tantrum to steal Eevee from you, handpicked a spot to ambush you when you were at your weakest. Even when team rocket take over Silph he seem to be more concern about beating you than chasing them out. His gramp even explicitly stated he lose because he is a dick to his own pokemon.
Guy may not be evil but he certainly not a "good" person, and at best your frienemy.

>>31729819
>never helped you

>tells you to go to Bill's house to see his rare pokemon
>tells you where to get cut (even though you're already there anyway)
>constantly dropping hints on how you should explore lots of areas and check the pokedex to check for possible evolutions
>probably never told his sister not to hand over the map since Daisy never said anything about it anyway

>>31729862
There's the Fame Checker gift in FRLG, too.

>>31729796
He's shit, but I recall from my replay of BW1 a few months back pretty much every character who isn't one of the Sages or otherwise grew up with him treat him antagonistically or like he's crazy.

BW2 though that goes out the window with what little interaction he has with most characters. He's mostly almost a messiah like figure who only shows his presence to the MC for whatever reason.

>>31729796
I think you just don't understand him perfectly.

>>31729796
That fucking image.
It's so bad.

>>31729877
You just don't recall correctly, then. He's never held accountable for anything. No one even thinks he's doing a wrong thing. He's just a man with "slightly different opinion", in Juniper's own words. She says that after he claims he wishes humans shouldn't exist, and if they do, they should all listen to him.

>>31730046
Holy shit. If this is true, then Juniper is as bad as Sycamore.

>>31730059
Or N is a shitty character, on par with Lysandre. Depends on how you put it, though the result is N's dick being sucked. I'd argue he's worse than Lysandre, because Lysandre actually had some understandable reasoning behind his motives, and was trusted because he was a genuinely nice guy who contributed to the society, making him arguable one of the most popular and beloved people in Kalos. Him being rich also made sense. None of which applies to N.

N > Lillie because i didn't have to babysit him.

>>31729796
>what even was his fucking point?
That the pokenon are unwillingly enslaved by humans.
>Pokemon are not happy? That's fucking bullshit.
As another anon pointed it out, Pokemon literally evolve by Happiness.
Main character's pokemon are happy because you treat them well. Look at Silver, hell, look at Ghetsis' full power frustration Hydreigon. Not every trainer makes his pokemon happy.
>Yet, despite all this, N believes Pokemon are not happy.
Here is you, free your entire life, you go to some country and apparently people are forced into slavery there. Would your first thought be "oh they must be so happy!"?
>His "development" is basically the same as realizing you breath air.
Your entire life have been locked away and told the world is made of aliens aside from you and your family, they would even show you shopped pics. First time you'd go out you'd probably make it a huge deal to see an another human. Then, slowly, you'd realise the world isn't really inhabited by aliens.
>Next, his personality. All he does is talk about Pokemon. There's nothing else to him.
Personality is made by how we are raised. He was raised to only think about pokemon.
>He said he hated seeing Pokemon get hurt, yet battle you.
That’s actual bullshit, he should only battle you when it's absolutely necessary.
>Not only that, after you do beat him at the end, everyone forgives him for no fucking reason.
It's never said they did, he just ran away and was probably hiding from humans for two years.
>....pic related basically shows his setting as a character.
Many people sympathise with villains and assholes, look at Silver and Gladion.
Many characters in pokemon have perfect look because it's a fucking weeb game.
Flaws are obtained by how we are raised, but he was more flawed than this. People told him shitton of times he was wrong but he was too megalomaniac to give a shit.
Who wouldn't like to talk to pokemon though?

>>31730109
kek

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>>31728492
N > Lillie

Lillie is a dumb cunt who can't do anything on her own, needs to be guarded 24/7 and abandons you when you're of no use to her anymore. N was manipulated, but he got shit done, unlike her.

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>>31730382
>That the pokenon are unwillingly enslaved by humans.
Which is bullshit.

>Main character's pokemon are happy because you treat them well.
It's not just the protagonist. Literally everyone besides the evil teams love their Pokemon. Pic related is a default look a trainers Pokemon has. Frustration is move used only by evil teams. His motive was fucking stupid that even the ashnime team discarded it.
Fuck, N can TALK to Pokemon. He even acknowledges he saw many, many people with happy Pokemon. But no, that still doesn't matter unless you physically render him unable to continue. Because he's "deep", not retarded. He'll just go on about his bullshit until punch some sense into him, only they will he acknowledge the truth that was in front of him the entire time. Because he's deep and great character.

>Would your first thought be "oh they must be so happy!"?
If I see them all having fun and playing around, and can understand and just outright ask them, yes, I would think they're happy. Because that would be the truth. They're not all pretending. Denying that would be retarded. N is retarded.

>First time you'd go out you'd probably make it a huge deal to see an another human. Then, slowly, you'd realise the world isn't really inhabited by aliens.
Except he doesn't see a single human. He sees thousands of them with no aliens. If I go out and see only humans and no aliens, I'm going to call what I believed bullshit. If you're going to forgive him for being retarded and still having his dick sucked, you're the problem.

>Personality is made by how we are raised. He was raised to only think about pokemon
You have no idea how humans work, do you? Just because he was only taught about Pokemon, which isn't even true, his whole existence now starts and ends with Pokemon? Even animals have more personality than that. Even if I were to consider that the case, still doesn't mean it's a good or likeable personality. It's shit. And that's what I'm calling N. Shit.

cont.

>>31730382
>>31730607
>It's never said they did
>The Champion has forgiven me, and… What I should do now is something I'll have to decide for myself.

>Many people sympathise with villains and assholes, look at Silver and Gladion.
Because they earn it. Gladion helps you with the right thing and does nothing wrong, and he's still called out for his shit by Lillie. The only wrong thing Silver does is steal a Pokemon and treat them badly. He makes up for that. He apologizes to Elm, and actually works on treating his Pokemon better. He earns it.

>Many characters in pokemon have perfect look because it's a fucking weeb game.
I was going to make an argument about how just a character looking good, but still having a theme that goes well with their character and having perfect looks are two different things, but I got too long and I gave up. It'd be too much to even understand, anyway.

>Flaws are obtained by how we are raised, but he was more flawed than this.
Name some. Other than being absolutely fucking retarded.

>People told him shitton of times he was wrong but he was too megalomaniac to give a shit.
Give examples.

>Who wouldn't like to talk to pokemon though?
Still doesn't mean it's a power that breaks logic and makes him even more of a special snowflake.

Oh, and one or two of the traits from the image are something all character has. Combining all those makes just makes a fucking shit character. A fucking Gary Stu.

>>31730607
>>31730624
I can't believe how bad these arguments are.

>>31730638
>I don't have a counterargument
FTFY

>>31730382
>he's supposed to be dumb because of how he was raised! That's a good thing and makes him the best character!

My god someone kill this thread.
N > Lillie, Lillie aggrivates me beyond belief

>>31730720
Stay mad. No one likes you shit waifu. Or are you going to write another essay about how that isn't the case?

N = AZ = Lillie

>>31730977
Is this a 'choose your starter' post?

>>31728492
> N < Lillie
I liked Lillie, a lot. Watching her grow was my favorite part of the game. Really wish there's a third version or sequel to SM, so I can see her more.

>>31728492
N is better as we see him struggle and progress as a character

Not to mention he teaches a much stronger moral than Lillie does about thinking about things in more than just "Black or White" that was really created at the heart of the games.

Also N's design/back story is much more creative than "my mom dresses me as an UB"

>>31729493
I really did like N's end quote if you said no to having a dream

Very uplifting

I don't get how people can like Lillie, she is literally outdone by her own brother in the same game with a almost identicle backstory and is a very helpful person trying to get by without much help.

>>31731255
Personally speaking, there's not much to dislike. I hear people claiming she's annoying, but I didn't see any annoying traits. She was just nice. Unless you hate every nice character or anyone who doesn't fight, there's really not much to dislike.

>>31731301
She not bad by any means of the word as a person in the game unlike Zinnia

She's just so incredibly generic and boring. We really don't see her struggle at all through the games, she's just always a bystander

>>31730903
>I don't have a counterargument: Part Two

>>31731316
I'll agree my first impression was the same. She looks generic and boring, just another blonde character. The game changed that though.
I don't know what you consider struggle, but I thought the entire game was just about her struggle. She had a full character arc of her own where she slowly breaks out of the fear of her mother and slowly grows as person.

I don't know what characters you've seen, so can't say anything about that, but she was unlike any I've seen. At least her story and character arc. The concept was simple, a girl growing up. But it was executed nicely and uniquely enough that it got me to care for a Pokemon character for the first time.

>>31730903
>No one likes you shit waifu
Of course, because anyone who disagree with you about how good N's character is must be a Lilliefag, right?

>>31731337
>>31731432
It's pretty fucking clear you're triggered because no one is picking Lillie over N in this thread. I still have the last thread saved, in case you need another reminder how irrelevant your waifu really is.

>>31731448
>I don't have a counterargument: Part Three

Just post whatever that thread is if you want; it won't change anything.

>>31731510
I see who doesn't have any arguments.

>>31731736
Empty threat, empty threat.

>I see who doesn't have any arguments
Can't really do anything when the opposition didn't even say anything.
Or do you want me to copy-paste the whole thing again?

Also
>I don't have a counterargument: Part Four

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>>31731448
I'm a N fag, but it's pretty clear the a number of people like Lillie better

>>31731857
See this thread and say that again. I can also post the last thread, where people shat on Lillie just as hard. The mindless masses don't count as people. Only the ones with brains do.

>>31731877
I know, even if people have opinions you don't like it's still their mindset and you got to respect it even if you don't exactly agree

It's like the fucking reason I like N

>>31731877
>I can also post the last thread
Unless you're gonna follow up with that, don't bother bringing it up. Empty threat is a poor man's argument.

>>31732045
https://archive.nyafuu.org/vp/thread/31427409/
Is that proof enough that no one likes your shit waifu?

>>31728492
N > lillie

BW and BW2 is superior to SM anyway.

also N was competent and actually tried to stop his dad unlike lillie, which was there just to be eye candy and did nothing to stop her mother.

>>31728492
N > Lillie
At least N had an interesting gimmick with his teams. Other than that I don't really care. Maybe Lillie was a bit overbearing in terms of presence. More than N anyway.

>>31729722
Blue's arrogant, not really a dick. The only rival close to being a dick is Silver.

>>31728492
N>Lillie because he was a more nuanced character, cooler design, and more original.

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>this entire thread
Gonna be honest, feels bad man. I genuinely loved Lillie and thought she was a great character, the best Pokemon had offered. To see this many people picking N, who I considered one of the weakest character of Gen 5, over her is kind of disheartening. I knew /vp/ didn't like her, but didn't think it was this bad.

>>31728492
Lillie > N

I never played Pokemon for the story but as far as know about her I realized that she has more a relatable background. And her personality is like someone IRL on Pokemon world.

N is a good character too but his drama about "the chosen one" is not as interesting as it was supposed to pretend.

I hate both but if you make me choose then I'd rather Lillie > N

Because that green faggot was annoying as fuck

Lillie>N

>>31733843
/VP/ are the same autistics that prefers quantity over quality so I wouldn't be suprised

>>31734020
>/VP/
>quantity over quality in this context, where Lillie is the offer more of both
Look, anon, I feel a bit bad about this, but not bad enough that I need this sort of comforting.

>>31733843
There's plenty of people that like her. It's not exclusive to waifufags anon. /vp/ Is a place where contrians come to express themselves. It shouldn't surprise you that they're picking the less popular option

>>31734046
i was referring to games context. /vp/ sucks Bw2's dick so much because of muh post game for example.

>>31734091
I guess that makes sense. I suck BW2's dick too, so can't say I don't understand. The postgame dick of BW2, with all previous Gym Leaders and Champions, was just the right shape and size for my mouth. It was almost almost addicting.

>>31733843
Got any meat to your opinion?

>>31731255
Try to breath once in a while with so much N's cock in your mouth.

>>31734350
He's saying he doesn't like Lillie, anon. Not that he likes N.

>>31728492
> N < Lillie
Muh ideals were so fucking pretentious.

>>31728492
N > Lillie. Lillie is great though.

>>31734375
He's mad because some people picks Lillie over N so it's funny make him more mad about it.

>>31734402
Nfags have no reason to be mad, anon. He was always popular, but never the most popular. It's just another character that's more popular than N. It doesn't change much.

Nfags:
>no one likes your shitty annoying waifu kek
Lilliefags:
>no one likes your gary stu retard XD

This isn't what the threads meant to be about.

>>31730046
>He's never held accountable for anything.

n and Lillie are terrible character just like any other character in this series that somehow has a fanbase. But pokemon is a series where badguy get off scotch free ALL THE FUCKING TIME. In fact I think Charon is one of the only characters that gets arrested other than ghetsis(which didn't stick). The series has been like this since day fucking one with Giovanni who flatout just walks away.

>>31734484
They've been learning from their mistakes and changing that since BW. BW's Ghetsis was caught, though he escaped. Lysandre DIED. Lusamine is kind of a special case, because she's in coma or something.
But I think the anon was talking about more about just calling out the shit. The others, at the very least, get called poopyheads. N doesn't get that, so the anon was annoyed.

>>31734475
To be fair, there was only one anon going "no one likes your shitty waifu", and no one has said "no one likes your gary stu retard" yet. The anon said "N is a gary stu retard and I hate him", in other words, expressed his opinion. Which is exactly what this thread was about. That anon did a better job, because he explained his opinion and why he doesn't like N.

>>31734511
To be fair Ghetsis became a vegatable in BW2 after you beat him. Not really nessicary to arrest someone that literally doesn't exist anymore.
If they make a BW3 they better have him show up like pokey in Mother 3
Lusamine got that pussy pass though. But that's just how I view why she got the ending she got.

>>31734545
I just assume Lusamine got away because there's no proper authorities in Alola.

>>31734475
There are people who say they like both of them in the thread too.

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>>31734576
>Lusamine got away because there's no proper authorities in Alola.

Wicke was an undercover cop who was conveniently absent during the storm aether part, Nanu was an ex cop who decided not to do anything, Looker might have been in the region at the time, but even if he was he became incompetent slapstick after B/W. Hell Aethers own employees could have done the deed since their boss was freezing pokemon.

Lets be honest, Lusamine got off scotch free because she's the first villain that has a vagina, this is Pokemon and they realized how much worse the shitshow of a story would be if she died or got arrested with the character death that served as the catalyst for her villainy being revealed to still be alive 3 hours before you even meet her.

>>31734912
>ex cop, just living in Alola
>Looker
So other than Wicke, no one really.
Her vagina might've played a part, but just one game prior, Archie and Maxie got away with almost destroying the region. Pokemon is just easy on most villains.

>>31734576
Considering how Ghetsis literally just threatened the authorities to get Zinzolin out, it wouldn't have matter either way. Pokemon villains, except good guy Lysandre, all get away.
No one cares about Charon.

>>31734988
>no one really.

Police officers are a trainer class and their are at least 2 police stations in Alola

>>Archie and Maxie got away with almost destroying the region.

>this is Pokemon

>>31734988
>Literally a Kahuna
>Literally actual law enforcemdnt
buildings exist in these games

>>31734576
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Police_Officer_(Trainer_class)

>>31734912
>mother your so mean!
>that's why I resuced you from another dimension when I actually did nothing and now I'm going to take care of you!

>>31735020
Cyrus is just trapped in Poke-hell

>>31735038
You ORAS is a remake so they wouldn't change the outcome of RS just for that.

>>31735067
*you forget that

>>31735067
>>31735038
And they repent for their actions a bit

It's something

>>31735050
She did evil shit, so you wanted to stop her, but not kill her.

>>31735087
They robbed people, stole a submarine, almost activated a volcano and awoke PokeGodzilla who could easily destroy the region, and they were forgiven because they said sorry.

>>31734576
Even in real world, crazy or almost dead people aren't arrested in a lot of cases. In PokeWorld, where an apology is enough to be forgive in most cases, Lusamine is one of the few villains whose ending can be justified.

>>31733620
>At least N had an interesting gimmick with his teams

What do you mean?

>>31735385
Not him but I imagine they mean him getting Pokemon native to the area

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>>31734135
Kek.

>>31735385
It was always the local Pokemon with every battle.
In Nimbasa he has a Sigilyth and Darumaka, guess what route you just came from?
Chargestone Cave, same thing.
If you think about it, perhaps it implies he never used Pokeballs to begin with, but gameplay story segregation stuff you know.

>>31734054
Less popular option? Nigga we don't even have an official poll for these two characters. Fuck off.

>>31735429
You think that Lillie was will lose a popularity vote? I'd it's only /vp/ then sure.

>>31735385
Have you not played BW? Or hear of an N run?

>>31732086
There we go.

No, this changes nothing. You still can't come up with anything to counter that argument.
Did you forget which? Let me bring it back up, just for you.
>>31730607
>>31730624
Of course, you're gonna imply I'm a Lilliefag anyway, without even coming up with anything to defend N.
Or do you hate N that much?