OU Suspect Test: Duggy Time

>>31727715
uh oh

I guess it was inevitable, what with that Attack buff

>digdug will be Uber
Who would have thought?

>>31727715
Fucking finally

why the fuck does that fag have to force his shit tier music taste?

Should've just banned arena trap

>>31727745
trapinch is not broken

>>31727765
Neither was Gothita

>Dugtrio of all things in ubers.

Huh.

>>31727783
Not according to the LC council.

NU TO UBERS

LEAVE MY BRO ALONE
REEEEEEEE

>Hey everyone, the OU tiering council has decided to test Dugtrio.

>Dugtrio has been claimed to be the progenitor of the stall craze due to its incredible utility in trapping, and has thus led to further questioning of the role it plays in the metagame. In order to address a direct problem relating to the outcry against stall, we have decided due to popular consensus in the council and in the community, to suspect test Dugtrio.

>Dugtrio itself possesses one of the greatest aids to defensive teams: the ability to trap would be stallbreakers and threats to defensive cores. By utilizing it's recent attack buff along with the wide amount of Pokemon it is able to neutralize, Dugtrio has become a favorite pick among defensive builds. With the ability Arena Trap, Dugtrio gains the ability to consistently pressure the opponent through the threat of completely throwing the momentum of the game by eliminating a key counter, or breaker, that threatens the team otherwise.

>While at the start of generation seven stall did not see much play, slowly the community began to realize just how powerful a tool Dugtrio possessed in its ability. Dugtrio has the ability to pick apart teams and destroy otherwise solid measures against defensive builds, and is viewed by some to be a ridiculously centralizing force which pushes the need for niche counters onto the average builder. Outside of it's role as a utility 'mon for stall, Dugtrio can also function on more balanced teams which need an efficient way to eliminate select counters. Dugtrio can turn otherwise relatively equal matchups on their head by eliminating specific counters, destroying typical team structures. Dugtrio also functions as a revenge killer to set-up sweepers with its now increasingly common Choice Scarf set, which allows for the assured kill of certain sweepers through Arena Trap.

>>31727745

>Due to the council's general belief that it is not Arena Trap that is intrinsically broken, but the user (Dugtrio), we have decided to exclusively suspect test this Pokemon.

>>31727715
>Thoughts /vp/?
Greninja should have gotten the boot first.

>>31727742
>he doesn't like AiC
Found the actual shit tier music taste.

Now y-ou know why Alolan Dugtrio sucks.

>>31727855
This. Dugtrio has a good enough movepool to where it can come in on pretty much anything, and either kill it or Memento out into a counter.

>35 base HP
>50 base defense

>>31727885

>inherently broken ability
>great speed
>good attack

>>31727885
>120 speed

>>31727829
He has been OU or UU in every gen

>>31727885

>120 base Speed
>100 base Attack

>>31727885
>glass cannon trapper has shit defenses
Anon, are you retarded?

>Alice in Chains - Dirt
Weird, I was listening to that before I came here.

>>31727792
Yeah, I can't see it running anything but Sash.
>>31727892
>>31727903
Still.

>>31727885
>Good movepool
>arguably broken ability
>100 base Atk
>120 base Speed

try again please.

>>31727892
>>31727894
>>31727903
>>31727915
hook line and sinker

>>31727920
>merely pretending

Imagine you are on 4chan in the year 2008.

Now, imagine going on /v/ and telling them "In the year 2017, Dugtrio will be in ubers."

What would their response be?

Please note that this is /v/ from 10 years ago, so keep that in mind.

>>31727931
Not that far-fetched. Wasn't Wobb banned at the time?

>>31727792
It actually works pretty well in ubers since a vast majority of the tier is like 90-100 base speed plus Groundium Z is hella strong on it

>>31727931
>oh yeah there's also a new type called fairy type and it's immune to dragon :^))))))

>>31727942
>Groundium-Z
>hella

i forget how underage the place is here sometimes

>>31727931

It isn't that hard to imagine. Arena Trap has always been a fantastic ability. If you explained that Dugtrio would be buffed, and that there would be an ultra reliable way to keep hazards off then some people would believe it.

>>31727938
Wobbufett was banned because Wobbufett vs. Wobbufett was an immediate stalemate if both had leftovers (this was before struggle was a flat 25% recoil.)

>>31727938
Wobbufet was only banned because it could potentially cause never-ending battles. Struggle recoiled based on how much damage was dealt instead of the flat 1/4 HP every turn, so Leftovers would heal more than the recoil it would take.

252 Atk Dugtrio Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 324-384 (85.4 - 101.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO


Duggy confirmed best new lead in Ubers holy shit

This is long overdue, Dugtrio should have been banned since Gen 5

>>31727956
What? You mean on the board dedicated to a childrens video game franchise?

Fuck off retard

>>31727962
Well that is very true, Gen 3 (or 4?) introduced Encore as an egg move making it guaranteed to lock you into that move

That's what broke it

>>31727971
Wouldn't a sashed lead be better? 2 Earthquakes would be the equivalent of 200 BP, and it wouldn't get OHKO'd unless Fire Punch burned.

>>31727971
I always preferred specs Kyreum White

Dugtrio is dumb but not as dumb as Greninja. It lost literally nothing in the transition from ORAS but it gained guessing games with a second and almost just as viable set with its Ashnime form, and water shuriken became special. Basically every team is weak to some variant of greninja, except full stall pretty much, it's literally impossible to account for it adequately.

>>31727990
It's probably a better option but the fact that this can OHKO while not even Adamant is amazing because it lets you either kill or bring in a defogger that can also revenge Duggy.

Good, Duggy stall is the least fun thing to fight.

>>31727715
Honestly surprised this is happening before Greninja.

>>31728103
In lower mid tiers it's not much of a problem but Dugtrio is high tier/ladder cancer

>>31728103
Gren is silly but you have a lot of answers to it. Your answer to Duggy is to neuter your team in the building process so that you can get more than 1 kill against Stall. You know shit has gotten stupid when Shed Shell Lele is one of the more popular sets.

I'm relieved that Lele and Hoopa aren't on the chopping block.

Greninja will probably be suspected next.

You piece of shits better not ban him! I love him ;_; fucken crybabies running the same God damn cookie tray teams are the ones bitching are the ones that can't handle it that's your fucken problem, scrubs. Don't you dare ban my mole!

Oh thank god. This thing is fucking terrible. Stall has gotten terrible this gen.

>>31727920
fuckoffretard.jpg

>>31728171

t. Chansey

Alright, so, as someone who's been out of the loop, for a while, apparently Dugtrio's BST was buffed up, and he got 20 extra attack points, bringing it up to 100.

Was... was this all he needed to be good? Like, a decent attack stat? His move pool, speed and everything was fine already, and his attack stat wasn't the reatest?

>>31727962
>>31727967
Except they fixed this in gen 4, when Wobb (and hilariously enough, Wynaut) were also banned.

>>31728202
Yeah, and Mantine got Roost and +20 hp and now It's OU material. Little changes have HUGE differences.

>>31728202
>Was... was this all he needed to be good?
Duggy was already good. That buff made him busted.

>>31728202
That little boost is the difference between killing a pokemon and leaving it alive at 90%. It's small but significant enough to hit certain benchmarks it was previously missing

>>31728202
Actually it forst started getting some usage at the end of ORAS iirc, but the +20 to its Atk was a nail in the coffin lmao

>>31728215
You call Mantines buff little?

>>31728215
nobody actually uses mantine in OU anymore, it dropped to UU by usage

>>31728202
That and Z moves give it a bit of unpredictability even though it only runs groundium Z or darkinium Z

>>31727715
Just ban Arena Trap. No one uses Trapinch in OU anyway.

>>31728241
>remove and nerf almost every type gem
>introduce something much more broken instead
Bravo GameFreak

>>31728253

No one uses Dugtrio without Arena Trap.

>>31728273
At least it's usable in PU!

You guys destroyed poor Gothitelle! at least do the same for Doug

>>31728273
>No one uses Dugtrio without Arena Trap.
Sand Force is good for both versions.

so smogon is considering banning dugtrio but not landorus which is used on 47% of OU teams at >1850 elo
fuck smogon

>>31728316
Bans aren't based by usage. Landorus isn't objectively broken, just good enough to fit on several types of teams.

>>31728288
No it's not.

>>31728321
so a pokemon thats used on half of all teams isnt broken? ok

>>31728328
Excatly, it just means it's good.

>>31728288
>Alola Dugtrio is RU
>Good

>>31728328
Popular =/= Broken

>>31728171
>Niggertrio
>not the poster boy of cookie cutter stall teams.

>>31728272
Z-moves are pretty much just revamped gems.

>>31727733
Anyone that played stall, Dugtrio is a win button on most match ups.

Who's next?

>>31728171
>>31728349
this

| Dugtrio
| Teammates
| Sableye-Mega +45.690%
| Chansey +34.680%
| Toxapex +24.252%
| Shedinja +21.794%
| Zapdos +18.941%
| Clefable +17.109%
| Skarmory +16.963%
| Alomomola +10.036%
| Togekiss +9.872%
| Seismitoad +8.340%
| Quagsire +7.001%
| Volcarona +5.089%

>most popular teammates are stallfag staples

>>31728328
Explain why Landorus is broken? Protip: it isn't

>>31728202
As a stall fag let me tell you, Dugtrio was already good.

That 20 attack boost was massive, not you can run a volturn stall core without any issue and break most wallbreakers with just one entry of stealth rock.

Dugtrio is now godlike.

Why use Dugtrio in Ubers when you have Mega Gengar?

>>31728423
Use both

>>31727902
It was RU last gen...

Because it checks half of the game, it comes in, then intimidates and eats an attack, then you can choose to stay in and get outsped by the choice scarf and one shot by equake, or you can switch out and let the landorus U turn and switch in a counter to whatever you switched to.
fuck landorus Im tired of playing against it

>>31728399
>>31728434

>>31728423
Because it can beat stuff like Pdon, Zekrom and Kyurem-W when megagar can't

>>31728434
Lets play spot the 16 year old new to Mons!

>>31728432
http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/dugtrio/
"no"

>>31728434
Spot the 1300 Elo

>>31728443
??? He's not wrong retard.

>>31728451
Except he is though? What he said can be applied to a list of mons.

Just because he's tired of facing it on ladder, doesn't mean it's broken, Anon.

>>31728171
Just use the hair one.

>>31728434
at least its not as bad as playing against salamence on battle spot

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What will stall teams use to replace duggy?

>>31728235
>nobody actually uses mantine in OU anymore
I do :/

>>31728499
Probably Weavile with Pursuit, like they were doing before Dugtrio was "discovered" in ORAS. Of course, Weavile can trap a lot less stuff than Dugtrio.

>>31728499
Honestly probably something that can beat Hoopa-U because people are gonna start running Shedinja more to beat Lele

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>>31728548
>Pokemon known for running either shadow ball or hidden power fire as a 4th move option
>Walled by shedinja

Also, covert crags say hi

>>31728574
Almost every Lele is choiced.

>>31728499
Banded Ttar is a patrician choice, the most common option is Weavile though.

Dugtrio was rediscovered in Gen6 but he was a stall staple in Gen3.

>>31728432
It was banned from RU and eventually rose to OU.

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>>31727715
>suspecting Dugtrio
Haha that's retar-

>They're actually serious
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>31729191
t. Stallfag who wants to keep his easy ELO gravy train rolling.

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>>31727885
So by your logic when do we unban Deoxys Attack form?

>>31727973
I love how slow Smogon is to ban something that benefits Stall.

>>31728328
Landorus-Therian has a shit ton of checks and with its speed tier it's not too difficult to revenge kill it.

>>31727715
This grammar is all over the place. What the fuck.

wheres the pheromosa ban

poorkekekekDugtrionojawwwwwb

WAITER

THERE IS A

DUGTRIO

IN MY TIER

PLS REMOVE

I had this fool proof way to get out of 1500 elo in XY Oras and SM
It was jolly sash dugtrio with protect and honeclaws and and jolly scarf truant durant with entrainment
The other 4 mons were something to cover for everything you couldbt trap
Now i have to say goodbye to my best mate ;_;

>>31727953
>ignore my time-traveling companion, for while Fairies are immune to Dragon MOVES...the Dragons will be fine. There will be a Dark-Dragon who fucking dies to this, but otherwise? Nah, they're fine.
>Oh, and not only will they be fine, but Salamence and Rayquaza will be buffed utterly. What you've seen thus far in Platinum is nothing compared to what you will see happening to them in the Ruby/Sapphire remakes. They'll look stupid, I assure you, but what makes up for stupid looks...is stupidly high power and versatility.
>Also, Sucker Punch will be the best move ever.
>By the way, have I mentioned to you that this moth pokemon gets a move that boosts 3 stats at once? Crazy shit and it looks cool, too! But it will die to rock pokemon. Sorry.

Christ, have Smogon gone off the deep end, even by their standards?

>banning dugtrio instead of fucking legendaries in OU

>>31729884
Besides heatran and the tapus, what other legendary Pokémon are in ou?

>>31729888
cancerous-t, zapdos, Hoopa-U, Latios, Magearna and Zygarde

Not all of those deserve suspecting but it's better than fucking Dugtrio

Smogon once again deciding that banning pokemon is better for the metagame than getting good.

>>31729892
Dont forget meme form keldeo, celebi, volcanion, suicune, jirachi and so go on.

>>31728387
Give it time anon. Once ScoliPass is banned, M-Sableye is gonna be next.

>>31728499
Scarf Ditto. If that thing transforms into a setup sweeper you're f*cked.

>>31730003
How the fuck do you setup when you're scarfed?

>>31730112
Do you even play comp faggot?

>>31727715
>landot with almost 50% usage
>tapus fucking the whole game no matter the format with terrains along with their being good pokémon overall
>fucking dugtrio gets suspected

Just use a flying or ghost type nigga. Holy shit

>/vp/ is so bad that they think babby shit like Lando-T, Garchomp and Tapus are a bigger problem that Dugtrio.

>>31730228
Ok name a nice strong stallbreaker that is flying or ghost type. Because that's why duggy is getting the boot, it's making stall too strong by trapping stallbreakers.

>>31730112
Ditto copies the boosts you idiot.

>>31730290
Gliscor?

>>31730299
Can gliscor break unaware mons, a staple of stall?

>>31728447
Different anon here. It definitely was for most of Gen 6, I played mainly RU and always used it

>WHAAAAAAAAA STALL WHAAAAAAAAAAAA
>staple stallmon gets suspected
>HOLY SHIT SMOGON STOP BANNING MY BROS REEEEEEEEEE

>>31730338
dug is dealing with that quagsire real soon

>>31730344
shitters on /vp/ probably don't even think for a second to associate dugtrio with stall

talking about competitive here is a joke

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Never forget 48%

>>31728328
that's not being broken. a pokemon that has such a trait is better referred to as "splashable"

>>31729899
anon only one of those is OU

>>31730637
ALL HAIL TO THE KING

>not banning stealth rocks

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>>31730003
>Boosting when opp has a Ditto

>>31727715
I understand that Dugtrio fucks with stall, but is it really the most deserving of a suspect test right now?

>>31730776
>One of the propagators of high ladder stall
>fucks with stall

>>31730829
Maybe he meant it fucks with chansey

>>31727845
>Dugtrio also functions as a revenge killer to set-up sweepers with its now increasingly common Choice Scarf set
>scarf dugtrio
When will the speedcreep stop?

>>31730770
but if you don't boost how do you beat stall?

>>31730776
>Fucks with stall
it's the only thing keeping stall together in this shitshow.

>>31728327
>No it's not.
It's not suspect worthy is it>>31728348
>Popular =/= Broken
Overcentralizing = popular = Broken

>>31730892
Even if you start boosting funaware mons are going to stop you, so again, why boosting?

>>31729449
Also knock off becomes a meta staple

>>31730259
/thread

>>31730897
>Overcentralizing = popular = Broken
I'm sorry sir, are you legitmately autistic?

>>31727715
So I've doing some battles in the suspect ladder and my first impressions about duggy's ban are "I don't know t&h".

Everyone's using Stall, ScoliPass, Double Screens+Stored Power and other OP shiet, so it's REALLY hard to tell how would a duggy-less metagame's gonna be when everyone's going for the wins.

Is this the true face of Smogon?

>>31727783
>Gothita wasn't broken
I take it you don' play LC

>>31730259
Say whatever you want, I still see Tapu Lele as a toxic mon to the meta.

>>31727742
Because Smogon is all about showing off what an cool and interesting human being you are.

>>31731495
>Everyone's using Stall
well yes this is where duggy is used.

>>31731495
Baton Pass is gonna be banned eventually

>>31731623
I forgot to mention I did see a change, tho.

Trapinch's the new Duggy.

>>31731650
lmao how the fuck would that shit get reqs, duggy was great because in addition to killing every stallbreaker that beat unaware it was sanic.

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>>31731676
I wish I was joking.

>>31731650
Wasn't Trapinch PU last gen even with Arena Trap?

>>31731758
10 speed and no bulk will do that to a guy

>>31731729
>Shedinja
Boy am I out of the competitive loop

>>31731793
With sableyes supreme hazard control it walls out a huge swath of the game, and has slow momentum in baton pass.

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>>31731729
You can't make this shit up.

>>31731793
>By virtue of its ability Wonder Guard, Shedinja can completely wall many common threats. These include Pokemon such as Mega Metagross, Pheromosa, Buzzwole, and Keldeo. Pokemon lacking coverage to hit Shedinja, such as Tapu Koko without Brave Bird or Toxapex without Toxic, are also fully walled.

>>31731729
How high up the ladder?

PHEROMOSA FOR UBERS WHEN
FUCK PHEROMOSA

ACTUALLY, FUCK IT
REMOVE ALL UBS AND TAPUS

>>31731895
and genies
and deers
and fuck it just all the legends
and the psuedos
and volcarona
and while we're at it fuck skarmory in particular

>>31731881
No idea. The ladder just opened, so everyone's around the 1100-1200.

>>31731895
>>31731913
Play UU

>>31727962

That's only true for Gen 3, not Gen 4 (in which Wobb was also banned).
Gen 4 changed the way Struggle works, where before it'd do recoil based on the damage you did, it'd now do (and still does) 25% recoil. Plus, Gen 4 also introduced the ability to switch out if both users had Shadow Tag.

>>31731793
You know how Rain teams are really good with Pelipper now? Most water types can't touch Shedinja. Manaphy, Kingdra, Omastar (who the fuck uses Ancient Power on it, lol?!?), Thundurus, Tapu Koko if it isn't running Brave Bird, even Keldeo are all powerless against it when running non-shit sets (I suppose you could put HP Dark on Keldeo (I used to for a while in the false and vain hope it could break through Latios), but then you're stuck with a wasted moveslot against every other team.

Shedinja also fucks any choice-item user if they're locked into a move Shedinja's immune to, like Tapu Lele. Also Mega Metagross almost never carry Fire Punch so it's useless against Shedinja too. it's a joke pokemon on the surface, but if used correctly with a lot of scouting (which you should be doing on your stall team anyway) it's obnoxious as hell.

just switch to greninja retard

>>31731934
Thnudurus is in UU. UU is dead to most people who used to love it now. RU is our shining hope at this point, since Tornadus is currently outclassed by Hawlucha as a setup sweeper and Moltres as a Z-Hurricane wallbreaker.

>>31730290
>Ok name a nice strong stallbreaker that is flying or ghost type
Mega Gengar :^)
>>31731650
>>31731729
>Trapinch's the new Duggy.
That's hilarious. Imagine if it sticks.
>the anal devastation of Flygonfags if fucking Trapinch manages to hit OU

>>31732113
Thundurus got b&

>>31731729
>atk 100
Not bad, same as Dugtrio

>Speed 10
I don't think this will become meta but I am not a competitive player

>45/45/45
Isn't that a to little to play as as bulky remover?

>>31732227
Eviolite :^)

>>31731895
Pheromosa is not OP or broken

>>31732303
>Max invested Def/Sp.Def at level 100 while holding eviolite is 310
Still not very good.

>>31728046
This. I've had games were a single dark pulse flinch is enough to turn the tables against my team even if I was winning the rest of the match. It can single handedly destroy teams unboosted, but is not that it's unbeatable, it's just not fun to battle against it.

I don't understand why they gave such a fast offensive mon priority as reliable as boosted water shuriken is: like if they gave deoxys a psychic type extreme speed, it has no right to be this good.

>>31732303
252- SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trapinch: 351-413 (119.3 - 140.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252- SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Trapinch: 351-413 (119.3 - 140.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Hoopa-U can fuck it while Adamant fails to OHKO

>>31732466
252+ Atk Trapinch Bug Bite vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 360-428 (119.2 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mark my words, this thing is gonna be OU:

Trapinch @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Bug Bite
- Quick Attack
- Toxic

>>31728046
I agree that the frog is dumb, at least having both versions of it is pretty stupid, but Stall is simply overpowering with Duggy in the game. I would much rather be able to win against Stall without crippling myself in team building than have Gren take a hit sooner.

>>31732541
>Mark my words, this thing is gonna be OU
Well then.
someone screencap this, if he fails we can make fun of him.

>>31732541
Trapinch was absolute grabage back when I used it in gen 4 NU with the almost exact same set (I think I had rock slide instead of bug bite), and that was a meta where BD Linoone was the premier sweeper. I can't even imagine how horrible it must be now in tapus and UBs - the meta.

One person memeing in low ladder is one thing, actually winning tourneys with a revenge killer that can't revenge kill is another.

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>>31732562
>>31732541
Gotcha covered senpai

>>31732328
It is when paired with Lele.

>>31732737
Then that's a Lele problem, isn't it?

>>31732750
Maybe. I do think that Lele is more broken, but it means that one of them has to go.

>>31732419
>I don't understand why they gave such a fast offensive mon priority as reliable as boosted water shuriken is

Because Game Freak doesn't care about balance (Especially in the face of shilling a Pokemon.) and they want to shill Greninja.

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>>31732541
Anon...

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>>31733125

So how exactly does COIL work again?
Am I right in understanding you need a GXE of at least 80 to vote if you play 70 matches?

>>31729395
Turns out having paper thin defenses and shit coverage that leaves you walled by any Ghost type doesn't make you ban worthy

>>31729898
They're all so fucking bad. The fact they ban anything is a sign that they're all shit players

>>31731516
You really missed the joke there.

>>31734277
#FreeMegaFug
#Groudon4OU

>>31734000
Basically there's a maximum number of games you can play, and you get more COIL points for winning than losing. It's a bit more complex than that, but that's the basics. I usually ignore COIL and focus on the calculator they provide in the thread. It gives you a certain number of matches based on your GXE, so basically have a really solid win rate and you get reqs faster. Of course easier said than done

>>31734277
Yeah we should just put Cres on every single team so we don't instantly lose to Landorus I and run Shed Shell on every stall breaker so we don't instantly lose to Duggy stall, fuck Smogon!

>>31734686
>Yeah we should just put Cres on every single team so we don't instantly lose to Landorus I and run Shed Shell on every stall breaker so we don't instantly lose to Duggy stall, fuck Smogon!
That's how the meta goes. Or find other ways. Or just git fucking gud

>>31734712
The way you "git gud" is to boil the game down to a few very specific threats and their very specific counters. A microcosm of this was when Mega Salamence was legal for a week or so, the entire game boiled down to Pokemon that countered Mega Salamence and the Pokemon that countered Mega Salamence's counters. You can "git gud" and adapt to every threat in the entire game, but when that happens every team is going to be looking extremely similar.

>>31727885
>caring about defenses when he isn't even touched and kills other mons with ease most of the time

>>31729884

>he thinks legendary means anything

You should play more senpai

>>31734686
>r winning than losing. It's a bit more complex than that, but that's the basics. I usually ignore COIL and focus on the calculator they provide in the thread. It gives you a certain number of matches based on your GXE, so basically have a really solid win rate and you get reqs faster
I looked at that, but the maximum number of matches you can play is 70, and according to the calculator the lowest you can be to fall within that range is 80 GXE. Unless I'm doing it wrong, which I might be because that seems really high.

>>31734919
I don't think it's exactly 80, but it's very close. It's meant that so only the best, AKA nobody in this thread, can vote.

>>31735084
Isn't that kind of self-defeating though?
If only the best can vote, that means that most of the votes are coming from people who like to use the busted strategies that they're trying to ban in the first place. I mean I agree that there should be some kind of barrier to ensure that the people voting know enough about the game to make an informed decision, but I feel like loosening it up just a little bit would make the votes more representative of how the community as a whole actually feels.

>Something beats stall
>Ban it

C O C K W O R K

>>31727980
You have to be 18 years or older to post on 4chan kiddo

>>31735139
>votes are coming from people who like to use the busted strategies that they're trying to ban in the first place
While it may seem like this, it's not really the case. A lot of the good players know what is and isn't healthy for the meta game, or at least have a very informed opinion on it. Results of Suspect Tests often end in ban. People complain a lot about a stall bias, and that Smogon will be extremely unlikely to ban anything that makes Stall powerful because they like Stall. Since most people who get reqs use stall to get it because let's be honest, it's pretty much auto pilot for easy wins there might be some issue here. And as terrified as I am of stallfags getting to decide how this meta develops, I'd much rather that than retards like >>31735193 or >>31731895 to vote.

>>31735193
see
>>31728387
sub 1100 shitter

>>31735139
That's probably why you can't use the thing being suspected on the suspect ladder. So you would need to get high COIL without being able to use duggy.

>>31727915
>good movepool
meme

>people still backpedaling and defending smogon
>retarded suspect after retarded suspect
/vp/ is the most guillable shit ever
if smogon will suspect more random mons or strats they will still defend them

laughable

only positive thing is that smogon hasn't been relevant or reliable since the end of gen 4

>>31735321
>random mons
Nigga you don't have to play smogon but pretending you know anything about a format you don't play at all makes you look retarded. Literally every body was asking for this suspect.

>>31735271
STAB EQ is good movepool these days.

>>31735271
It's not the biggest movepool, yes, but it has a lot of useful moves that see play.

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>>31731729
>Trapinch will be OU before Flygon

is there ever a pokemon that got cucked as flygon?

>Something reliably removes Chansey
>Ban it
Stallcucks will just use Weavile or TTar as their trapper after that like they've been doing for the past few years.

>>31735543
The victimism of that retarded reddittor is unberable. Flygon has even been OU in ADV and DP days...

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>there are people in this thread that unironically believe that trapinch will replace dugtrio
Top kek. It's not even very good in little cup.

>>31729203
.t genie of healthy meta

>>31736302
can't toxic+toss+softboiled beat any dugtrio, even sash+reversal sets?

>>31737668
nope

>>31737680
i feel like i'm missing something here, but as long as rocks are up or duggy gets statused, doesn't chansey just toss twice in between heals? even adamant band max roll earthquake fails to 2hko before rocks

>>31737738
Dugs carry screech for chansey

>>31737738
The standard set is EQ, Reversal, Screech, and Memento

banning diglett is the most stupid shit i've ever seen

>>31737756
>>31737779
I had assumed sucker punch/aerial ace/stone edge were still 3rd move options, that's actually a really cool/nasty set

>>31737804
You could probably run those over Memento, but Screech is necessary for removing blobs.

Bump to prevent spam from letting this falling off

Shit like Pheromosa, Tapu Lele, Landorus roam freely in OU, but duggy gets a suspect test.

Why?

>>31738804
Because Dugtrio made stall too powerful, especially on the high ladder.

>>31727715
how the fuck is this even considerable with le floating lion of 47% usage

>>31738855
Usage doesn't mean OP

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>/vp/ regularly throws a fit about muh stall, fuck stallfags, stall is cancer
>Suspect test is for one of the cores of high level stall
>"fucking smogon why are you banning my bro fuck you you're only banning it because it kills stall"

Explain this.

>>31739088
It's just retards that don't know what they are talking about or don't even play OU. Only good things can come from this ban.

>>31733125
>>31733174
If Diglett Stall becomes a thing I'm actually gonna quit Pokemon.

>>31739208
no shit it's going to become a thing, you might as well quit now, some people suck too much to play the game any other way

>>31739088

Good thing these retards are too shit at the game to get the requirements to vote.

>>31738804
People are asshurt over stall instead of mons with like 50% usage.

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>>31727715
>>31733125
>>31733174
>>31739208

>yfw smogon trophy player running diglett stall on the ladder

>>31727715

>Dugtrio
>before Lando "I'm literally on half of OU teams" T

fuck you too council.

REMOVE THAT FUCKING GENIE ALREADY!

>>31739715
is it actually working

it can't actually be working

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>Diglett stall teams on the ladder
Can't make this shit up. What the fuck

>>31739715
So this is the end.

>Lando-T continues to get away scott free

At this point, I'm sure Lando is bribing Smogon under the table.

>>31739790

Gamefreak was a mistake.

when will Nintendo buy the rest of the stock away from Gamefreak, cause I'm not liking this anymore.

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>>31727845
>Dugtrio has the ability to pick apart teams and destroy otherwise solid measures against defensive builds, and is viewed by some to be a ridiculously centralizing force which pushes the need for niche counters onto the average builder.
>ridiculously centralizing
>Healthy Genie is literally on half of all teams

>>31739790
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7oususpecttest-531415248
>turn 8

top kek

>>31727715
>finally becomes good after a long time being a nu shitmon
>most likely will get banned

It's not fair.

>>31739846
>finally became good
>was OU last gen

>>31739846
Dugtrio's tier history: UU, UU, OU, UU, OU, OU, OU

>>31739846
are you retarded, dugtrio has been OU or UU at worst since gen 3

t. ADV stallfag who used it just like how people use it now, except it was even more faggy because there was no team preview so you couldn't even try to counterplay around it

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>yfw your Dual Chop Garchomp defeats the opponent's Diglett

>>31739846
>>31727885
>>31727829
>>31727792
is this a meme now?

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>>31728499
Trick room trapinch

>>31739846
literally retarded

>>31739846
NU? Don't act like you know my low tiers.

>>31739872
It was RU for a long time in ORAS then it went UU at the end of the games life cycle

>>31739940
Had it since X/Y for fun... Life Orb sheer force is waaaay stronger than Flygon

>>31739983
It actually ended the gen in OU

this is the most retarded shit ive read all day.

>dugtrio
>uber

seriously smogon, what kind of joke are you now?

>>31740622
>constant complaints everywhere about stall and how relunctant smogon has been about banning stall pokemon
>smogon suspects a stall pokemon
>lmao smogon you're stupid, why are they doing this

>>31739874
Dugtrio has been absolutely disgusting since Gen3.

Im amazed at people that somehow never saw how amazing this thing was before team preview, u turn only made it better.

>>31738804
None of those mons are broken.

About to reach the necessary COIL rating and I'll be voting for a ban

Reasoning being is that Dugtrio literally picks apart a team by removing a key part of a team whenever the player chooses. Stall gets taken out since it always beats Chansey and offensive teams will crumble once it's primary wallbreaker or sweeper gets trapped and KOed by Duggy. Switching is around 50-70% of a game and Dugtrio invalidates that. If a key Pokemon in your team is Duggy vulnerable you NEED to pack something that can take it out with Sash (ie. multi-hit moves) or you'll need to give it a Shed Shell which in both cases is reason enough to consider Dugtrio over centralizing.

In comparison, Landorus is great with it's role compression but it is by no means the same cancer as Dugtrio. It's extremely good without being broken.

On another note, I've been using Trapinch as my pseudo-Dugtrio and it's hilarious. Superpower literally 2HKOes Chansey so if you keep chipping it in a match you can potentially take it out. It's worse than Dugtrio in his job but he's the next best thing considering he has base 100 ATK while Diglett has 55.

>>31738804

Pheromosa and Lele were proven to be not as potent a threat as people thought a long time ago while Landorus-T is far from broken.

Maybe your team composition is the problem?

>tfw poor dugtrio will probably end up in whatever OU's version of BL is because it'll end up being to shit to handle ubers but deemed too useful for OU
>ends up like mega sableye and goes back after a short time

>>31741000
How can trapinch live to actualy attack anything?

A lot of the users are calling for a total Arena Trap ban, claiming that Diglett and even Trapinch are still broken on stall teams.

How can I argue against this? What can Dugtrio do that the other Arena Trap users can't?

>>31741051
Kill shit fast?
Diglett has pathetic attack and Trapinch has pathetic speed (although FS but that only lasts once)

How about you guys learn to think for yourselves instead of using whatever Smogons says you can?

>>31741061
Probably because they're discussing showdown tiers, the fanmade smogon battle sim rules, not the actual games?

I didn't mind a lot of the bans and rules and shit in smogon for a while until they banned baton pass strategies that let me use my quiver dance and other boosters well. Then I pretty much quit, since a lot of the battling I did was to git gud when battling in the real games or in VGC type matches. No use practicing in a sim that isn't like the game.

>>31741051
I mean, they're right to an extent. I don't think Diglett and Trapinch are nearly as broken as Dugtrio, but it's more consistent with the blanket ban of Shadow Tag they did in the past.

>>31741051
tell them trapinch deserves its day in the sun
it's a good boy

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>>31741060

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>>31741125
>stallfags are going to get diglett banned from LC

>Smogon rules get more unbalanced and disconnected from the real game every gen
>it's gotten so bad that a shitmon like Dugtrio might be banned
How many more gens of spending 3 years constantly banning things before the drones realize it's a waste of time?

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>>31741125

>>31741176
I don't think anyone wants it to be like the official rules. And the fact that the lower tiers have always existed kind of invalidated your argument, because something like PU would never work with gamefreaks shit to begin with.

>>31741061
I did think for myself, and I came to the conclusion that i'd still rather play by their rules.

>>31739208
Diglett has significantly less Attack and Speed. It'll die out.

>>31739825
Well maybe it can put in work. I underestimated the power of super effective hits. It might not get banned due to its lowered stats making it less of a threat and easier to deal with.

>>31741061
I would, but the alternative of Battlespot rules is much worse. I'd be fine with a less restrive form of Smogon, but what "less restrictive" means is entirely subjective.

>>31739088
>/vp/
>knowing competitive

How many times must we go through this? Hell, I don't even play competitive, but at least I don't shit up the board complaining about and pretending I know things about a format I don't play.

>>31741213
>I don't think anyone wants it to be like the official rules
You're right, the concept of adapting to a standard metagame where everyone is on a level playing field rather than a small % of players molding rules to their exact liking, is too scary for Smogon's current power-hungry community. It's not even that they should copy official rules or not exist, it's that fan rules shouldn't be the focus of the site (like every other competitive community), but they are cucked by their 2007 culture

I don't know what lower tiers have to do with anything, if Smogon focused on official metas there would be nothing stopping them from making lower tier versions of them for fun

The notion that duggy nakes stall broken is absurd.

The standard stall archetype (mega sab, toxapex, chansey, skarm) can do whatever it wants with the remaining two slots.

For example, i managed to hit #2 on the ladder with quagsire and tapu bulu as 5th and 6th members.

Bulu in particular, thanks to its terrain, makes opposing dugtrios worthless and it's a solid check to common stallbreakers such as lele.

Mega sab is the issue. It was banned at the end of gen 6 for a reason.

>>31741050

Sash Trapinch

>>31741527
Just play AG lol

>>31741535
Your team gets absolutely BTFO by common stallbreakers such as Hoopa-U and Magma Storm Heatran. Dugtrio traps and removes these stallbreakers before they can even do anything, it's what makes it broken.

>>31741176
>Dugtrio
>shitmon

>>31741586
Hoopa-u is easily handled with smart switching and protect on bulu for scouting.

Magma storm bloom doom heatran gets pp stalled by mega sab.

Biggest threat is serperior which is rarely seen.

>>31740916
Tapu Lele is unhealthy for the meta

>oh good a suspect test, let me go get the requirements. i just have to play games which is what i do anyway, this shouldn't be too hard
>over half of my opponents are using copypaste stall
Is this really what I'm gonna have to sit through for 70 matches?

>>31741408
Battlespot rules are fine, nobody runs shit like OHKO and evasion moves anyway other than for a joke, there's too much that can go wrong if you try to use that shit in 3v3.

The Pokemon banlists are also fine, since many of the mons who are inherently broken in 6v6, like M-Blaziken, M-Lucario and M-Salamence, are manageable in 3v3. Stall also really isn't a thing and entry hazards aren't common unless someone desperately wants to have a way to break focus sash, but in a meta where set up mons are King, using a turn to set up entry hazards is risky as fuck.

Honestly, virtually all of the problems the Smogon meta has are self inflicted due to them using the 6v6 format, that format is inherently unbalanced and makes it easier for certain strategies and mons to dominate.

>>31743663
>M-Blaziken, M-Lucario and M-Salamence

I'm guessing that's because of less support from having less teammates.

>>31727715
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SMOGON BABIES CAN'T COUNTER A POKEMON WITH 100 ATTACK AND SHITTY-ASS DEFENSE!!! HAVEN'T THOSE DUMBASSES EVER HEARD OF SHED SHELL OR GHOST-TYPES!!! I'M FUCKING DYING OVER THIS WHINY BULLSHIT GIT FUCKING GUD ASSHOLES!!! DUGTRIO SUCKS BALLS, JUST LEARN TO COUNTER HIM

>>31745446
That's 'cause these fucking retards don't want to think... or more accurately, they CAN'T. They've been a joke ever since the Mega banwave.

>>31745446

Shed Shell is a waste of an item slot

/vp/ should try and get a personal room on Showdown

Can you imagine the shithole it'd be?

>>31747578

Verlisify-tier sets everywhere

If Shadow Tag is banned then Arena Trap should be too considering that they're identical against 90% of Pokemon

>>31745446
It'd be a real nuisance if Dugtrio got the one move in the game that hits pokemon when switch out which also happens to be super effective against ghosts.

>>31747578

We should have our own server. It would be breddy comfy.

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>>31727715
>Lando-T still isn't banned
>usage almost at 50%

>>31747847
OU will not be healthy untill it has 100% usage

>>31735543
Flygon has a niche in ubers

>>31741535
>>Bulu in particular, thanks to its terrain, makes opposing dugtrios worthless
>Opponent traps your Chansey, or toxapex
>Switch in Tapu Bulu
>Try to woodhamer it
>Opponent switches out to their grass resist
>BTFO

>>31748062
>Grass Resist
>Bulu

>>31747847
If there was a suspect test you sure as shit wouldn't be able to vote.

>>31745446
>HAVEN'T THOSE DUMBASSES EVER HEARD OF SHED SHELL
But Skarmory and Celesteela run it all the time so they don't get fucked by magnets, and Shed Shell Blissey is also a thing to deal with the moles.

>>31748203

Skarmory and Celesteela are the ONLY Pokemon where Shed Shell is a viable item

On everything else, it's a waste

>>31747847
Lando-T is actually a problem but for other reasons, nearly 50% usage is obnoxious but that in and of itself isn't justification for a ban.

>BST 425 Pokemon is this good
>People STILL think BSTs are so important that legendaries should be banned on principle

>>31730770
substitute users are also an option sine it cant morph through sub