>most gen 1 pokemon are too weak now

Of course they are. That's why stuff like Crossgen Evolution and Mega Evolution exists.

>>31658976
That's a really half assed way to make them relevant

>>31658985
Mega Evolutions? I have to agree to some extent. Crossgen Evos? I do not agree with your statement, since evolution's a vital concept in Pokemon.

The first - arguably first two gens were made in an era where Gamefreak didn't know that a competitive scene would exist in due time. Mega Evolutions, Crossgen Evos and even Alola forms were made so that Gen 1 mons would be usable.

>>31658871

Power creep at its finest.

And to be fair, they had no idea how to design pokemon back in Gen 1. Psychic supremacy and all that. Giving alternate evolutions and type shifts allow them to use the experience they've gained over the last couple of decades, and redesign the old icons to keep them viable.

Mega-evos are fine and dandy, but still feels like a shitty digimon gimmick to me, and shouldn't be the go to answer to make old mon relevant again.

Like with natural evolution, a pokemon introduced to a new region would develop differently. Retype more of the old icons, throw on some branching evolutions through items or situations new to the generation.

I'd love to see an Onix evolution involving feeding them copious amounts of elemental stones. You are what you eat, and I'm fairly certain it's written somewhere the onix eats rocks.

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>most pokemon are weak

>>31658871
>Make Alola Legends
>All of them are shit
>Only exceptions are Ninetales and Marowak, the latter of which happened entirely by accident since it's only good in a format GF has refused to acknowledge in the past several years
>inb4 "bu-but Muk counters Lele!"

>>31659077
>they had no idea how to design pokemon back in Gen 1
they weren't designing these guys for a sustainable 20+ year multigen franchise. their mistake has been in failing to reign in the power creep.

Those pokemon were designed before the physical/special split and the special split. Back when crits were determined based off your speed. Modern pokemon are designed to consider modern mechanics. Power creep is real, but it's not the only reason that gen one mons might get the short end of the stick sometimes. Besides, a good chunk of them are still viable without megas or Alolan-formes.

>>31658871

Raichu, Alakazam, Dragonite, Zapdos, Articuno, Mew, Mewtwo would all like a word with you.

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>>31659129
>Those pokemon were designed before the physical/special split
>thinking gf cared about this

>>31658871
Good. Game Freak panders to Kanto so much that I don't even care.

>>31659139
Articuno is garbage.

>>31658871
Most pokemon from every gen, even 7 are too weak now. It's what happens when you let a power creep like this happen.

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>>31659077
>and redesign the old icons to keep them viable.
They should just change their abilities, stats and movepool instead of new forms.

I always prefer the originals over their form changes, to me it's like they're different pokemon.

>>31659139
Most, not all...

And a bunch of these are struggling to stay relevant despite being top dogs in gen 1.

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>>31658871
Power creep is a hell of a drug. I feel you man. Machamp falling to RU after 6 gens of back and forth OU/UU still has me bitter every now and then

>>31658871
They even directly nerfed Gengar, a gen 1 pokemon. What the fuck is up with that?

>>31659139
>Articuno

>>31659077
They just need to update a lot of the BSTs, and they need to do more than just handing out +10 buffs to a single stat here and there, because that isn't really helping.

>>31659129
>A good chunk
I'll wait. If it has a mega or cross gen evo it doesn't count. What other gen 1 Pokemon are used? Sheer Force Nidoking? Barely anymore. Alakazam used to be the shit, but there are fairies that do the job better now.

>>31659541
Of course NFEs don't count. Save for Magnemite and Chansey, all the Kanto NFEs can't function too well even with Eviolite.

>>31659987
>Magnemite
I mean Magneton

Personally, I think one of the things they need to do for Gen VIII is to completely rewrite the stats. They don't have to create new Pokémon character models for anything up to #802 because they're future-proofed, so if we're getting small pools of new Pokémon for each generation, that gives GF plenty of time to redo all the movepools and BSTs so every Pokémon can, if not be "viable", at least be usable to a certain extent. There's no reason only the newest Pokémon and Legendaries should get an advantage.

I'm not even into competitive battling, but it just makes logical sense to me that you'll see more variety and ingenuity from battlers rather than the ENORMOUS centralisation that has plagued VGC (and, indeed, Smogon) if there are more than about 30 Pokémon worth using.

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>>31658871
>Marowak and Clefable are among the few who aren't

>>31660198
Kantonian Marowak is actually decent?

gen 2 and gen 4 are arguably even worse in terms of competitive viability

>>31658871
wtf are you talking about OP, gen 1 still has one of the most viable pokedex

>>31658871
Gen 1? Gen 2 is much worse in that sense

>>31660045
This. This. This.
I can go on for days.

>>31660045
if everything is good then nothing is good plus there'll always be that one pokemon that will dominate the meta

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NEVER
FUCKING
EVER

>>31659526
They did alright with that this gen, where several Pokémon got decent BST buffs

It would also help if they were more willing to nerf stupid shit like Garchomp

>>31660350
He got a little buff this gen
It's not that great, but it's something

>>31660464
>implying GF will ever cut more than 10 sp atk off garchomp
thats fine i mean i love seeing him every single game in singles and doubles when my favorite type is rock

>>31660477
That sounds like it hurts, anon

I wish not to know your suffering

>>31660487
it wouldnt even be that bad if regirock with his 200 base defense didnt still get one shot by garchompquake

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Just play Gen 1 if you want the Gen 1 Pokémon to be good.

>>31660513
>>31660350

>>31660513
>implying Machamp was good in Gen 1

Play Gen 2, that is where Machamp excels.

>Mega Venusaur
>Mega Charizard X/Y
>Mega Gengar/Gengar
>Mega Alakazam
>Multiscale Dragonite
>Alolan Marowak
>Arcanine
>Sylveon
>Alolan Ninetales
>Mega Gyarados/Gyarados
>Zapdos
>Blissey/Eviolite Chansey
>Porygon2/Z
>Magnezone
>Impostor Ditto
>Mega Kangaskhan
>Mega Scizor/Scizor

And that's not even including just less than stellar Pokemon like Sheer Force Nidoking, Mega Blastoise, Mega Pinsir, and so on. They've done a pretty decent job at keeping Gen 1 Pokemon functional through new evolutions, hidden abilities, alternate forms, and Mega Evolution.

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>>31660552
>Sylveon
>Porygon2/Z
>Magnezone

Almost a third of OU is from Gen 1 in one way or another.

>>31660576
Knew that was coming. Those Pokemon are more than workable in competitive, or at least they were as of the end of last gen. Not every Pokemon has to be Garchomp level to be considered competitively viable.

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Friendly reminder that a cross-generational evolution usually results in an abomination.

>>31660591
>the same excuses over and over
>Magnezone a abomination
Stay mad.

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>>31660591
Only in Gen 4.

>>31660591
electivire and magmortar are objectively better than their previous evos

>>31660589
sorry let me rephrase
>Sylveon
>Porygon2/Z
>Magnezone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gen 1

>>31660598
>electivire better than electabuzz
"no"

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>>31660598

>>31660591
Crobat
Bellossom
Politoed
Slowking
Magnezone
Steelix
Hitmontop
Blissey
Kingdra
Scizor
Espeon, Umbreon, Leafeon, Glaceon
Poryon2, Porygon-Z
Azurmarill
Yanmega
Honchkrow
Mismagius
Gliscor
Weavile
Mamoswine
Roserade
Dusknoir

>>31660599
Eevee, Porygon, and Magnemite/ton are all Gen 1 Pokemon. I specifically pointed out that those Pokemon were made stronger via new evolutions. Another example I mentioned is Scizor.

>>31660613
azumarill is not a cross gen evo. azurill is a cross gen baby though

>>31660622
You're right. I pulled up a list for quick reference and missed that.

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>>31660622
Wouldn't that mean Azurill originates from Hoenn?

>>31660045
I feel that they should give new abilities to past legendary pokemon who's not as good as the Genies and the Tapus.

>>31660591
Shit opinions

>>31660598
I like Electivire but Electabuzz is better. Magmortar did what it could but Magmar is a lost cause.

>>31660641
i like to think that most baby pokemon are results of premature birth or forced human interaction (such as gen 4 babies requiring incense to happen)

>>31660477
It doesn't help that many Rock Pokemon suffer from the same meme as most Ice Pokemon.

>>31660591
Nigga Magmar was already ugly. Gen 4 made it look smug as fuck while giving it cannons.

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>>31660591
My opinions in pic related

>>31660659
I find that disturbing. So baby Pokemon are technically mutations or some shit.

>>31660591
I will never understand the people who think tangrowth is bad.

>>31660752
In all fairness, it is by far the least awful of the six evolutions in that picture.

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>>31660720
The only one I disagree with is Magnezone, other then that yes.

>>31660591
All of those are improvements, though.

>>31659541
Dragonite. Zapdos. Your mother

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>>31660720
>only puts 4 as bad
>puts Probopass and Magnezone there
>Weavile 5/5

>>31660765
>then

>>31660781
show me your hot opinions then, champ

>>31660769
Yes, in stats. Not in design.

I love all the crossgen evos. The only reasonable way to include old Pokémon to new games and rebalances meta. It's also fun how they take the original design further in a surpsing way.

Shame the feature has been killed off recently.

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>>31660813
with pleasure

>>31660834
my bad bellossom should be a 3

>>31660834
That's some good taste anon

>>31660834
Ok, good taste. Very good taste.

>>31660720
> Probopass and Magnezone are bad.

Anon...

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I like electivire and magmortar

>>31660232
Gen 4 introduced Garchomp, which controlled OU for like 3 and a half generations. Stuff like Weavile, Lucario, Magnezone and Mamoswine are pretty strong too, even if some of those are crossgen evos.

>>31660509
Sturdy bank regirock anon :^) I do have one tho

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>>31660903
Me too, Anon.

>>31660591

The only cross-gen evos that actually look worse are Rhyperior, Lickilicky, and Probopass.

Shit like Magmar, Electabuzz, and Tangela were always fugly, they just weren't improved.

Which Gen 1 Pokemon, when transferred directly from the VC games, are competitively viable?

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>>31660989
>and Probopass

>>31661014
Ninetales gets Drought and Poliwhirl gets Drizzle if evolved into Politoed.

Venusaur, Charizard and Kangaskhan have great megaforms.

>>31661014
Sheer Force Nidoking with Bubble Beam is a funny little thing.

If we're talking about cart play you could use Mega Gengar or even regular. Just because it lost Levitate doesn't mean it's shit.

Also Alakazam as well along with Analytic Porygon2, the list goes on really.

>>31658871
Gen I has some of the most competitively viable Pokémon out of all gens, though, proportionally speaking, especially if you include megas.

>>31660350
The reason why he's tradeable for Spearow is to teach kids that patience i.e. Fearow, a decent mon, is worth having.
In other words, his entire gimmick is to be a pathetic shitmon, and at most a novelty Pokemon

So don't expect him to learn Leaf Blade or Smart Strike or goid coverage

>>31661064
If there was a Mega-Revert feature, Megazard Y could pull a Solar Power-Drought combo off.

>>31660591
Tangrowth actually isn't too bad but it didn't make the transition into 3d, honestly its base design works pretty well but the execution in the art style lacks something

>>31659139
>Articuno

my sides

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>>31660720
Ahh fuck it, let me get in on this action too.
I like most cross gen evos.

>>31661014
>>31661064
>>31661086

So if I transfer my Gen 1 team of:

Charizard
Raichu
Nidoking
Alakazam
Gyarados
Dragonite

How would I fare?

>>31661186
>Charizard
Mega Stone into either Mega is nice
>Raichu
Lightningrod would make it nice for doubles, but it can't get Egg Moves since it's from Gen 1 so you're out of luck.
>Nidoking
Teach it Bubble Beam in case you want a Water move. You probably won't need it, but you never know
>Alakazam
You're damn well off with Magic Guard and a Mega
>Gyarados
Moxiedos ain't too bad and Mega Gyarados is pretty nice though Tapu hell hurts it. Just don't use Intimidate-less Gyara in doubles
>Dragonite
Tapus hurt it too but Multiscale is solid

You're actually not as bad off as you'd think but things could be a little better. Just make sure to transfer with proper natures

>>31659139
>ARTICUNO

LMAO

>>31660641
no.

>>31661205
Ok thanks Anon. I'm kind of becoming a /vr/ guy in my old age, so I really love the idea of having some legit gen 1 Pokemon.

>>31660883
Probopass is objectively ugly. But then it is meant to resemble a Jew, so they didn't really have another option.

Reckless Eviolite Rhydon
Y/N?

>>31661300
>objectively ugly
if this is your only argument it's not a bad design

not liking it doesn't make it a bad design

>>31658871
Does HOEnn still have the highest SHITmon to non-shitmon ratio?

Somebody should do the numbers.

>>31661308
>Reckless
nah nigga

lightningrod rhydon in doubles is awesome though.

>>31661333
Ah ok, was just wondering in terms of virtual console transfers since that's where the topic went.

>>31661359
if you want to karenfag you can use reckless submission

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>>31659139
>literally the lowest tier legendary alongside fucking Regigigas
>would like a word with you

>>31660903
Both should've had Sheer Force

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>>31661322
oy vey, how dare he call G-d's chosen Pokémon ugly

>>31661322
Ok. My reasons for disliking Probopass's design are:
1. They completely ruined the Easter Island head motif
2. They replaced it with a Groucho Marx motif

>>31661422
>Easter Island head
>Game Freak takes away the mustache.
>People complain that its look bland and too much like its real world counterpart.
>I-i-it's literally just a Easter Island head.

That's its gimmick/spark/appeal. Without that people would bitch about it like they do Toucannon.

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Hi!

>>31661422
if you took away the mustache it woud still be called jew over having a big nose, eyes and a mustache

and how did it ruin anything by going from ruined moai to restored moai

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>>31661449
Its 'appeal' is that it's literally Nosepass plus pic related.

>>31659526

They got much more liberal about it in SM.

Masquirin of all things got a buff of 40 to its BST.

>>31661493
probo doesn't have eyebrows

>>31661102

He can learn leaf blade though.

>>31661493
>gets hat to match restored moai motif
>limbs completely replaced with magnetic levitation and three mini nose drones
>literally Nosepass
I guess Aggron is literally Lairon standing up.

>>31661510
That was lucky.

Gamefreak wanted to make Masquerain and Araquanid Day/Night counterparts so to give Araquanid 450ish BST they had to buff Masquerain.

It's the same reason Shiinotic's BST is awful but in reverse.

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>>31660591
>people are still butthurt about gen 4 a decade later

>>31661585
I grow more butthurt by each passing generation.

>>31661485
Nosepass doesn't look like a Jew. It looks like an Easter Island head, as it should.

Probopass's real crime was that Nosepass left nothing to improve upon design-wise, so any changes could only make things worse.

>>31661520
If you have the time to waste finding a version with just the nose and mustache then be my guest.

>>31661565
That was hyperbole, if you missed it. My point is that the most obvious design change was giving it a funny mustache and googly eyes to go with its oversized proboscis.

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>>31659139
>that one bird you're wrong about
jej

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>>31660613
>this entire list is entirely tied to gen 2 outside of dusknoir, roserade, leafeon and glaceon

sounds like the solution to who to give evolutions to is pretty obvious

>>31661642
and probopass looks like a restored moai with a mustache

nosepass also has no eyes and hat so it can't look like a jew which is fine because ruined moai have no eyes or hat

>>31661308
>Reckless
Why the fuck doesn't the Rhyhorn line learn Head Smash?

>>31660591
>magnezone
>abomination

Wow, your parents were pretty reckless throwing you down the stairs as a baby

What if all gen 7 Pokémon were supposed to be slower than gen 1 Pokémon as a form of pandering

>>31659139
Moltres is way better than Articuno you faggot

>>31660289
The problem is that things today are good because of a huge statistical advantage. Compare the Tapus to the Regis or Birbs. Better stats, better typing, better abilities, better movepool.

It's simply unfair.

>>31662510
>tapus have less bst than the regis and birds
>still have better stats
What went wrong?

The key to balance is simple. They have to limit the movepools of stronger pokemon.

For example, let Flygon have all the options. Flamethrower, Fire Fang, Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, etc. While Garchomp loses Swords Dance, Outrage and Swords Dance.

Now both has their role. Garchomp has a much better Earthquake and is a better choice user than Flygon. But Flygon has set up.

>>31662551
Optimization. Moltres have 100 attack and doesn't learns Brave Bird and Flare Blitz, for example.

Too many wasted points.

SOMEHOW KOKO LEARNS BRABE BIRB AND A LITERAL BIRB DOESN'T

>>31662560
>They have to limit the movepools of stronger pokemon
Will literally never happen. Easiest way to give Flygon a niche over Garchomp is +20 Special Attack and Quiver Dance.

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Raichu became a World Champion last year. Minor things like little stat buffs go a long way.

The biggest problem with gen1 pokemon imo, is that they learn really bad moves for the most part. 80% of gen1 are basically Lilligant.

>>31659139
>Raichu
Kanto form is useless
>Alakazam
Struggling
>Dragonite
HA
>Zapdos
HA
>Articuno
It's fucking PU
>Mew
Struggling
>Mewtwo
Low tier Uber

>>31659493
Ohmori is more of a idiot than Masuda

>>31658976
Game Freak should just start doing more direct stat buffs between gens
just pump a load of attack and def or whatever into machamp n shit

>>31660477
>It would also help if they were more willing to nerf stupid shit like Garchomp
Garchomp is supposed to be overpowered

>>31662848
>HA
Abilities didn't exist at all back in gen 1. And loads of pokemon, not just gen 1 mons, have gotten new abilities thanks to them. That's as retarded as saying that they don't count because they have access to current gen movet tutors.

Is gen 7 supposed to be in a different parallel universe from gen 6? Because otherwise it doesn't make sense for pokemon to just randomly change base stat total between gens with no explanation whatsoever.

>>31662940
What i'm saying is that dragonite and zapdos are only good because of the hidden abilities

>>31662928
>supposed to be overpowered
That's how we end with shit like Tapus and Pheromosa that makes the game less fun to play.

>>31662707
Giving more and more tools to weaker pokemon without nerfing the stronger ones just makes the powercreep go through the roof.

I mean, that's how we ended with megas. It had the same idea on paper, but on practice we had shit hitting harder than Rayquaza, Mewtwo and other ubers, making a bunch of other pokemon unviable (EV everything to survive a Parental Bond Double Edge and if they couldn't, they're unviable).

>>31663005
I understand your point but you have to remember Megas took it way too far.

They didn't look for interesting niches they looked for CUHRAYZEE damage calcs.

>>31660591
>shitting on magnezone

>>31658871

To be fair, there were only about 15 pokemon in gen 1 that were competitive in gen 1 meta; I would know since I'm an autist that still gen 1's on showdown ladder.

So really it's still like 15 pokemon from gen 1, but they got shuffled around.

>tfw have to put one between tauros' eyes just to put him out of his misery at this point

>most gen vii pokemon are too slow

>>31660513
>Just play Gen 1 if you want the Gen 1 Pokémon to be good.

almost all gen 1 pokemon are shit in gen 1.
The typing balance was fucked to hell with psychics and normal owning everything, stats were fucked with special being the way it was, and move pools were garbage and overly relied on TMs.

>>31664756
>and overly relied on TMs
What's wrong with that?

>>31659111
How exactly do you define power creep, though? If a new gen has the same exact power spread as the previous gen, it's still going to push older Pokémon out because the top tier of the new mons will be more useful than the mid tier of the old ones.

True power creep would be a situation in which tiers were obviously stratified by generation, which isn't the case. Looking at Smogon's XY tiers, both OU and PU had Pokémon from all six generations.

>>31658871
most gen 1 pokemon were too weak in gen 1

>>31664756
>overly relied on TMs.
>implying pokemon don't know?

Try using Hariyama without using TM moves you fucking cock-gobbling pedo

>>31660598
>Magmortar
>better than Magmar
This is shit taste at its worst

>>31664775

It was annoying as all hell for competitive cart play.

Having to play through the game 3 times just to get multiple blizzard was suffering. Unless of course you cheated and just made copies.

On a lesser note, it was also really annoying for the main quest. A lot of pokemon legit learn practically nothing.

I mean aside from Yellow pikachu, not a SINGLE fucking pokemon naturally learns thunderbolt. So you get to have one pokemon with thunderbolt. God forbid you want to use something like Starmie and give it useful abilities.

It is astounding in the changes they made going from gen 1 to 2 in terms of natural movepool.

>>31664794
Two Pokemon can have the same BST, but still widely vary on the basis of
- the way those stats are spread. later gens have Pokemon with optimal stat spreads - I don't mean minmaxing, but less Pokemon that try to be jack-of-all-trades.
- Abilities. Some Gen I/IImon got better Abilities in the form of HAs after the fact, but the first go-round in RSE, everyone's Abilities were sort of "generic" and it's only later on you really saw more Pokemon with better Abilities, and HAs didn't fix everyone (Furret has no good competitive Ability).


And BSTs have not remained constant. Look at Megas. Yeah, they're meant to rehabilitate some older Pokemon that just don't have a fighting chance anymore, but Mega Beedrill is still vying for the same Mega slot in your team as a Mega Metagross/Tyranitar/Garchomp/etc.

>>31664845

Yes, but compare
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Hariyama_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Generation_III_learnset#By_leveling_up
to
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Staryu_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Generation_I_learnset#By_leveling_up

Even though Hariyama doesn't have what it needs for competitive play without TMs, it still learns serviceable shit for the main quest.

Look at staryu. Literal shit water gun until FUCKING 47, and it was hydro pump.
Granted, you could have used surf, but my point still stands.

>22 out of 122 Pokemon ranked as viable in OU are Kanto
>A bit over 1/7
Really makes you think

>>31665080
Megas and alola forms shouldn't count. They're from gen 6 and 7.

>>31664756
That person is dumb, but gen 2 managed to find balance. Despite being nerfed, a bunch of gen 1 pokemon were still good.

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>>31659139
>gengar no longer on that list

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>>31665237
>buffs to make older Pokemon more viable don't count

delet garchomp

>>31665304
You won't be able to get alolan forms in gen 8 without transferring them evolved from 7, and you won't be able to get mega stones until the end of every generation when all battle competitions have taken place (except the 5 or so they'll remove permanently per generation, until all non-legendary megas have been phased out).

So neither of those are valid buffs to some pokemon, not unless they're actually given proper availability.

>>31664794
Not him or her, but here's powercreep:

>Tauros Hyper Beam vs. Mew: 163-192 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

>252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew in Grassy Terrain: 382-451 (94.5 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

The strongest shit in gen 1 compared to the strongest shit in gen 7.

Is it a wonder that a bunch of Pokemon became unviable? Especially defensive/support ones.

>>31665304
Making a new pokemon and giving it the same name as an older one isn't a buff, it's a replacement.

Real buff was what Hidden Abilities did.

>>31661186

Objectively better team coming through (for gen 1)
>Jynx
>Alakazam
>Chansey
>Starmie
>Golem
>Tauros

>>31658871
Most Gen 7 Pokemon are weak too

What's your point?

>>31662918
Machamp has enough attack and speed. If anything it needs some actual speed.

>>31665663
The Big Four of Gen 1 are Tauros, Chansey, Snorlax and Exeggutor, in no particular order.

>>31666556

Yes, I am aware. I just don't like using the other two.

I manage top 5 on showdown pretty regularly.

>>31666626
I can see how Tauros and Chansey may be the top two, but why don't you like Snorlax and Exeggutor?

>>31666668

I prefer using Jynx as my lead, as it lets me force more predictable plays
>if you have gengar lead, they will do whatever they can to make sure they sleep another mon
>you can bait lead zams into paralyzing your chansey

And if you do get the sleep off or they're retarded and lead a physical it does massive damage (I run counter).

When you use Jynx even if your opponent gets the sleep off and forces a 5v6, that means he's using a gengar and jynx which isn't as big a deal since I have starmie for jynx and gengar isn't offensively a threat.

As for lax. I really wish I could, but I need golem or explosions would cuck me. Plus I like the immunity to twave for last game sweeping over lax.

I've used them both, but this is the team I've landed on to play more aggressively. There's certainly nothing wrong with either of them. They're both solid.

>>31666731
You seem to know what you're talking about.

How do you feel about Lapras?

>>31666746

Lapras is alright. It's a bit more situational.

It's okay for dealing with Jynx's after the sleep and it can sponge a couple hits from physicals.
If you get lucky you can deal with chansey and force switches on other pokemon. Very solid for dealing with cloyster.

Basically it's good for dealing with other situational pokemon, chansey if you want to roll the dice and not deal with a freeze war, and acts as a decent pivot against physical mons.

It still struggles with chansey and it really get burned by starmie, though.

I recommend using
-Blizzard
-Tbolt
-bslam
-confuse ray

You can bslam off the switch, hopefully paralyzing something then use confuse ray for dick ass parafusion, giving the other dude a 37.5% chance to move.

>>31666794
I think I agree with what you write. A team with the Big Four + double Ice-types seems interesting to use. Do you think it is important to have a Rock/Ground on the team?

GF needs to outright rebalance stats. Drain base stat points used in worthless stats and put them into the used stats. Drain Machamp's special attack and put it into speed for starters.

A shame they won't because they don't want retards complaining about how their mons suddenly became weaker in one department.

>>31660591
I'll still never forgive what GF did to Electabuzz. What a disgrace of a Poke.

>>31666834

> Do you think it is important to have a Rock/Ground on the team?

That largely depends on many psychic pokemon + chansey you're running.

The early game to mid game is all about baiting para, getting a freeze if you can, and wearing your opponent down. The problem is is that a pokemon like snorlax requires no setup to use whatever so ever, so if your early game goes horribly wrong ( you get frozen or untimely crits push your shit in) you're still good to go.
But if you're running a rock and you get totally destroyed in early game, then you basically have to give it up for free and rely on your end game sweeper to pull a hailmary. The ONLY reason to use rhydon over golem is to challenge paralyzed starmies. Since starmie isn't as common and your opponent is unlikely retarded enough to get it para'ed, I see almost no reason to use rhydon. At least with golem if your early game gets fucked, you can explode. If you get caught with rhydon when your support failed, you're totally fucked.

The more psychics + chansey you have the greater of margin of error you have for early game, so rocks become more attractive. If you have 1, I'd say no. 2 maybe. 3 or 4 I'd say go for it unless you have other plans.

It also depends on the current stage of the meta because the presence of zapdos is cyclical. You don't NEED a rock to deal with that pokemon, but if you do you can basically get a one mon advantage on the spot if you don't lose your rock since they can never use zapdos and you can force a couple predictable plays.

So the importance of it depends on your team and the current meta. It's good but not required.

>>31666931
The Zapdos/Rock dynamic seems interesting. I understand that Zapdos is not very good against a team with Golem or Rhydon, but how good can it realistically be against a team without them?

>>31666974

It become the best last game sweeper in the game.

Zapdos is the only true mixed sweeper of gen with with good attack and special and STAB drill peak and tbolt.

Even though there are faster pokemon, it's still very fast, and pack twave and agility (remember gen 1 agility negates the speed drop from para when it's used after para), meaning it will out speed everything and it has a large crit.

The main issue is is that you can't really switch a whole lot into zapdos, so whatever is in just has to really deal with it and then whatever pokemon you bring in after it not guaranteed to bring it down.

So the mere presence of zapdos is likely to kill one mon and damage another if there are no rocks, but if they get random crits (gen 1) or they actually managed to save it until late game and you're weak then you're shit out of luck.

Strangely enough, the current showdown meta is lacking both zapdos and rocks. It will be interesting to see which pop up first again.

>>31660509
Regirock eats EQs for days with Grassy Terrain up.

File: restored-moai.jpg (29KB, 199x299px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 199x299px

>>31661422
a good rule of thumb is that everything in history looks dumber than you think it does

probopass is surprisingly accurate to a restored moai

>>31667037

And as always, if you wish to test a team, feel free to challenge me, and I can give you feedback

ggc.

>31667039
well, for five turns at least

>>31665332
>(except the 5 or so they'll remove permanently per generation, until all non-legendary megas have been phased out).
>there are people who actually believe this

>>31658871
>most gen 1 pokemon were already crap in red and blue

>>31666850
He doesnt need speed though. More HP/Def would be better

Why did they give Woobat a stat buff but not Swoobat?

>>31668059
Gen 1 has the highest % of OU pokemon compared to the dex size.

>>31666556
>Exeggutor over Starmie
What's wrong with you?

File: sluggorecursive.jpg (100KB, 976x734px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 976x734px

>power creep to hell and back over the last 4 generations
>a lot of gen I pokemon are still faster than new pokemon
You'd be surprised. A lot of gen 1 final stages and single stages have speed stats in-between 70 and 110.

>>31669476
But now we have average common mons with sky high attacking stats and excellent dual STAB, while the strongest Pokemon in gen 1 was Alakazam, Gengar, the birbs and Exeggutor.

Hell... a bug shitmon has the same special as Alakazam, with the bonus of being dual typed.

>>31669542
>forgetting starmie

>>31669579
Starmie had 100 special. Not really strong.

>>31669683
Better than Exeggutor.