OU Viability Rankings Updated

Reasons for drops

>Tapu Lele has been seen as a defining force for quite some time now, mainly for its Scarf set being so strong while being able to pressure offense. Unfortunately now with the influx in sweepers such as Mence, Scolipede, and Volcarona, Scarf isn't nearly as useful as it used to be, as you are giving up the ability to use something like Scarf Chomp/Nihilego or forcing you to resort to using another Scarfer. It's still very threatening in general, but it's fallen out of favor quite a bit for other Choice Scarf users, and has resorted to mostly using its stallbreaker set, which is what still makes it so threatening. However, its ability to stallbreak is heavily limited by Duggy, and forces you to forgo a Z move for Shed Shell. Regardless, it's still a very solid Pokemon with limited switch-ins and the ability to tear apart bulky cores with ease, as well as still being a decent Scarfer.

>Magearna and Fini are both suffering from similar issues, as they are both heavily prepared for and easily pressured at the moment, Fini in particular. While it's a great hazard remover and one of the few Ash Gren switch-ins in the tier, its lack of reliable recovery and inability to immediately threaten Pokemon such as Lando-T or Chomp makes it very prone to being worn down over time, allowing something like Ash Gren, Pheromosa or Zard-X to muscle through it late game. Fini's great defensive typing is just heavily hindered by how pressured it is to Defog, and how rockers such as Lando-T, Chomp, and Heatran can threaten to heavily weaken it in exchange for getting rid of hazards, which in could end up you just getting swept by Ash or Pheromosa. Magearna's Assault Vest set is similar in how so many Pokemon pressure the ever living fuck out of it to a point where it can't reliably check stuff like Greninja late game, and Shift Gear sets struggle to sweep.

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I see the Frogs are still doing the good shit.

>>31644117
FUCK YES TANGROWTH MAI BOI!!

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>Scarf Pheromosa is a thing
THE SPEED

IT NEVER STOPS

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>>31644117
HOLY FUCKING SHIT TAPU LELE DROPPED

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Smogon plz

Ban this cancerous slut

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>>31644268
>not going fast

>>31644117
>Jellicent: Unranked ---> C

Why? Is Keldeo popular again? Does it wall Lele? Nobody has nomined Jelly and I've never seen in on Showdown.

>>31644278
>>31644283
Makes sense. Everyone's running special walls
as of late, so Lele and other Specs users have a really hard time doing it's job.

Also, why is trash like Decidueye, Primarina and Kommo-o still ranked? Their threads are closed, so I don't see why they're still there.

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>Jojo skeeter has fallen to B+

>Ash-Greninja made protean Greninja better

It's ridiculous how he shits on it's fairies and grass types. Fucking hell I've had forgotten why he got banned in gen 6 but I don't think he's going anywhere soon.

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>>31644310
Wait if that's the case with Special Attackers getting the shaft, how is Top Kek still A+?

>>31644336
is spark top coc meta now?

Repeat after me

IKU Z

UU tiering when?

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>>31644412
Dasuto Shuto

>>31644425

Soon, UU just left beta and became an official tier

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>>31644117
Have you thanked the Tapus of healthy meta today?

>>31644336
Because everyone is either running a fairy killer or a special wall to force them out. They're still OP, but not worth the S rank anymore.

In other news, Kommo-o's the first pseudo to not even be recognized as viable in OU. Seems the purge has begun I guess.

>>31644117
>>Tapu Lele: S ---> A+
OHHHHH SUSPECT NEVER
WE DID IT LELEBROS

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>>31644483
>he says when two Tapus have dropped in rank
Well would you look at that, I guess they aren't the overcentralizing as /vp/ made them out to be.

>>31644491
How the fuck Garchomp is still A? I thought no one used it because of Landorus-T doing everything it does but better.

Someone please explain.

>>31644493
I know, I'm just asking how Koko managed to hang on to his A+ spot while Fini dropped to A and Lele dropped to A+.

>>31644511
Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing. The still define the meta. And in fact, that Lele dropped means that she was defining the meta so hard people started to over-prepare to her to the point she dropped.

>>31644523
Because it's Garchomp. It can do anything.

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>>31644117
>Landorus-T is still S rank
THE GENIES LIVE ON

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing

>>31644542
Woooow. That's some advanced retardation...

>>31644117

>putting choice scarf on pheromosa, literally the fastests pokemon besides ninjask and speed deoxys, and who already gets a speed boost every KO

I fucking hate this metagame and all of these speed faggots

I'm glad that Pheromosa raises, It's one of my favorite.

I can't wait how will change the meta with Beedrill and Mawile.

>>31644613
beast boost doesn't count items so she can run a scarf but get attack boosts instead

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing.

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing.

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing.
What the fuck am I reading?

>>31644491
>still the best
>was never the best pokemon in OU

explain

>>31644635
>Beedrill
Literally nothing will happen since it's basically a shittier Pheromosa. He'll enjoy UU until Azumarill and Scizor fuck it dead though.
Mawile I dunno lol.

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing
Did you even fucking think about what you just typed out?

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing.

>>31644716
>forgetting the time Chomp was so good it got banned to Ubers.

>>31644752

It wasn't that good, it just had an ability that Smogon didn't like.

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>>31644531
>tfw no one answers you because an anon decided to go full retard.

Are the January Usage stats out yet?

>>31644766
maybe because koko is faster of the bunch and is harder for celestila, the frogs and phero to switch in

>>31644764
>It wasn't so good
t. someone who didn't play during Gen 4

>>31644764
>It wasn't that good
It was like gen2 Snorlax plus that ability Smogon didn't like.

>>31644336
It just spams U-turn until all of its counters have been removed by its teammates, at which point it just sweeps with Thunderbolt. Not many special attackers can pivot like Top Cock can.

>>31644766
Koko is faster and hits harder, has less weaknesses and resists more, plus actually is a threat to Fini itself.

>>31644792
Wouldn't have just as hard a time switching in to the other Tapus, or are you saying that they can't switch in because Keko would outspeed and kill them after?

>Garchompfags getting triggered HARD that their ugly dragon is shit

kek

>>31644764
>two people going full retard in the same thread

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Where's my boy at?
The last time I checked he was in OU.

>>31644819
we're talking about competitive, what did you expect?

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing

>>31644523

Because Garchomp and Lando-T do completely different movesets. Plus Garchomp is like the only OU mon with six viable sets.

>>31644818
It's literally the best Pokemon of all time you fucking casual scum

>>31644117
So is Marowak worthless now?

>>31644812
cele and the frogs cant risk switching into volt switch or tbolt so i guess that counts towards your former point

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>>31644797
It was stupid strong because it could run a bunch of very effective sets. Sandstorm was permanent, and it was abused with Sand Viel + Substitute +Sandstorm. It has the troll speed stat, and it could run band, and scarf sets extremely well.

>>31644836
What are it's sets?

>>31644830
/vp/ is hilariously bad at competitive

>>31644829
In the trash where it belongs

>>31644841
Nah, it's just that EQ and Fini are everywhere.

>>31644818
spotted the butthurt gengarfag

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>>31644836
>Plus Garchomp is like the only OU mon with six viable sets.
>six viable sets
I didn't realize he had so many

>>31644841
Not worthless, but it's going exactly how people expected. As the meta starts to define itself, Alolawak will get less and less usage.

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>>31644839
>This.

I've been a pokefag since 8 yrs old im 25 Garchomp is the best pokemon of all time.

>>31644818
Your just mad that you got BTFO

>>31644818
>A+ rank in OU, second highest usage in VGC, highest usage on battlespot, Uber in gen 4, S tier in Gen5 and A rank in gen6 is being shit
Stop trying to out-shitpost >>31644542

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>>31644818
Can't deal with THE best pokemon of all time. Face it sperg Garchomp will always be an apex threat in every gen its in.

>>31644894

It was only A in Gen 5. It has never, EVER, been S rank in Smogon OU.

It has absolutely no claim to being the best.

>>31644910
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bw-ou-viability-ranking.3551993/

>>31644858

Salachomp, Scarf, Tankchomp, (Mega) Swords Dance, Offensive Stealth Rock, Mixed, Z-Quake, AssVest, Band.

oh wait, thats more than six.

>>31644910
Name any other pokemon that can claim the same.

You're probably some butthur genesectfag. lel get shit on, cancerbug will always get curbstomped in every gen its in

>>31644934
is Chainchomp still gud?

>>31644934
Don't forget Specs.

>>31644944

Once new toy syndrome wears off, Gengar will go back to OU, where it will then have 7 straight OU appearances.

Tyranitar was S rank in three consecutive generations, including being the outright best in two of those three.

Skarmory, Celebi, Suicune, Starmie and Jirachi are also objectively better than Garbagechomp.

Stay mad.

>>31644956
>>>/showderp/

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>>31644946
It was never good. Everyone on Smogon just dickrode the mod that made that meme set for a tourny he won.

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>>31644117
>Toxapex is B+
I mean that's not the worst possible thing, but I expected it to be higher.

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>-A
>Hoopa-U
Wasn't that shit in Uber? What the hell hoppaned?

>>31644818

The only person getting triggered here is (You)

>>31644993

>expecting it to be higher in Lele: The Meta, featuring Mega Metagross

>>31644963
>Celebi, Starmie and Suicune are UU

>>31644956
Make it LO mixed Draco Meteor and we got a deal.

>>31644993
You expected a shittier ferrothorn to be higher in this metagame?

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>>31645022
well I guess when you put it that way

>>31644944
>Name any other pokemon that can claim the same.
Not that retard but Tyranitar was the best Pokemon in OU at the close of two generations and a metagame-defining S-rank force in a third.
Garchomp is some dope-ass shit tho.

>>31645026

They've all had longer relevance and eras of dominance than Garchimp has, and that is a fact.

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>Garchompfags will see gif related and start to screech in an autistic rage

kek

While we're talking about this, what was the best Pokemon in the game in each generation?

>>31645065
I thought chompfags and T-tarfags were bffs. What happened?

>>31645044
>Suicune was dominate for 3 gens
>Garchomp has been dominate for 4

>>31645076

I'm actually a Skarmoryfag but chomptards have gotten too big for their britches recently.

>>31645076
They are, T-Tar and Garchomp are like cereal and milk, peanut butter and jelly.

This is just one fag with an agenda.

>>31645069
Tauros
Snorlax
Snorlax or Suicune.
Garchomp. Impossible to say who's the best post-chomp because of how balanced Gen 4 was.
Landorus-T?
Mega Mom, M-Mence, M-Mawile, Frog. Clefable if you don't count any of those.
So far, Lele.

>>31645078

Garchomp doesn't exist in gen 4 ou. It's by no means dominant (that's the word you're looking for) in Gen 6, and it's a stretch to call it dominant in Gen 7.

Suicune was elite in Gen 3 and 4, but Garchomp only manages this in Gen 5, kek.

>>31644963
> have 7 straight OU appearances.
While chomp had 0 UU appearances unlike GengUUr
>Tyranitar
Only contender, he was only the best in gen4 because Chomp got banned to Ubers though.
>Skarmory
Never S rank

>CelebUU
>SUUicune
>SUUtarmie
Hilarious.
>Jirachi
Nowhere near as centralizing as Garchomp.

Stay mad.

>>31645103
They're like steak and milk

>>31645076
Shitposting happened.

>>31645069

Tauros
Snorlax (not even close, anyone saying otherwise is retarded)
Tyranitar (not as decisive as Snorlax, but still unanimous)
Tyranitar again, maybe Heatran
Garchomp, but Keldeo and Tyranitar are close
Clefable
Right now it is probably Megagross

>>31645069
Tauros
Snorlax
Tyranitar
Tyranitar (Rip my niggas chomp and mence)
Tyranitar
Talonflame/Landorus/Clefable

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>>31644963
Suicune has been NU tier since DPPt. Starmie got completley shit on when they buffed Knock Off, practically never seen in Gen 6.

Tyranitar became shit as soon as Fairy types became a thing. It should honestly be UU but Tyranitarfags will continue to shit up their team for their bro.

Celebi is set up fodder, became useless with Knock off Buff, and using meme offensive sets are free wins for whoever you battle.

Skarmory is good, but no where near Garchomps viability and impact in every OU metagame. Ironically Garchomp is arguably a better Defensive pokemon than Skarmory

Jirachi is an extremely less effecient pokemon than Metagross, and now MMetagross. The only decent set is the parahax and that set should only be used on meme teams. Not in OU. .

>>31645069
Tauros
Snorlax
Tyranitar
Tyranitar
Keldeo
Lando-T
Tapu Lele

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>>31645113
I think Topu Keko deserves an honourable mention for being able to stay A+ this whole time.

>>31645154
>Tyranitar became shit as soon as Fairy types became a thing

It's literally better than Garchomp in Gen 6 you mongoloid.

>>31645089
I mean, I'm no competitive expert, but I doubt Garchomp is the only pokemon to have gotten this kind of treatment.

>>31645103
>>31645123
Hope y'all are right, such a beautiful relationship should never be broken.

>>31645178

They genuinely think Garchomp is the best despite several Pokemon being historically better.

Sad, if you ask me.

>>31645069
Tauros, Snorlax, Dugtrio or either Suicune/Snorlax, Garchomp, this is where shit gets ludicrous but I have to go with Excadrill or Keldeo/Terrakion, mega zard X being the Pokémon everyone had to expect and the reason Lando T became a staple and probably Tapu Fini/Koko for Gen6.

That's my opinion on the most influential team building wise.

>>31645069
Chansey
Snorlax
Tyranitar
Heatran
Tyranitar
Talonflame
Greninja

>>31645147
This is how delusional tyranitarfags are.

>>31645197
>Tapu Fini/Koko for Gen6
Uh

>Tyranitar wasn't the best Pokemon of Gen 3 and 4

This is why no one takes Garchompfags seriously. I hate Ttar as well, but this is pure delusion.

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>>31645190
Garchomp is literally the best pokemon, and Gamefreak is well aware. So fun to play, lethal stats/typing/move pool. God level abilities that synergize with its best stats AND an item.

some things that happened to me last week with Gastrodon in battle spot

-gets trapped by Mega Gengar, tanks a shadow ball and one shots gengar with an uninvested earthquake

-battle with a heavy slam leech seed protect substitute Celesteela, both last Pokemon, Celesteela runs out of heavy slams (only 10 pp), and player forfeits after seeing gastrodon use recover for the first time.

>>31645069

Exeggutor
Zapdos
Gengar
Jirachi
Breloom
Mega-Scizor
Tapu Fini

These are the patrician answers.

>>31645209
Not an argument.
In gen3 he's unarguably the best pokemon.
In gen4 he was on every team and his scarf set would remove Starmie and spinblockers in general who were everywhere because Stealth Rock was such a centralizing thing and everyone ran Scizor so nobody wanted to run Forretress to spin. It also had a shitton of utility, its DD set, CB set and was overall amazing, I admit if chomp hadn't been banned then Chomp would be the king of gen4 OU.
In gen5 he was the strongest weather setter in such a weather centered meta that's solely the reason why I picked him, because the alternatives in S tier seem to be solely offensive rather than being able to provide support from many angles. I wouldn't argue with anyone saying Chomp or Keldeo are the kings of gen5 though.

>>31645236
God damn. I'm a chomofag myself and this is literally Charizard fans level of arrogancy.

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>>31645215
Garchomp was the best Pokemon in Gen 4, as it was huge news when it was announced Uber. The only reason Tyranitar was good in Gen 3 was because Garchomp was debuted in Gen 4.

>>31644923
BTFO

>>31645117
>not dominant
>The most used pokemon for the majority of ORAS, above lando
8.18911%
8.96380%
14.44091%
17.25614%
27.52205%
26.38926%
21.75734%
28.20142%
30.26805%
27.92895%
28.95667%
30.26831%
28.15997%
22.24376%
21.57400%
20.21043%
20.40241%
17.25090%
21.26314%
19.04413%
20.27910%
18.05597%
18.46486%
15.18875%
14.15223%
23.31721%

>>31645323

>implying usage=viability

Kek, you've just exposed yourself as a ladder shitter. I have now won the argument.

>>31645314
Nah Tyranitar was legitimately amazing in gen3 and if Chomp had debuted in gen3 he'd have been mediocre (though a good check to ttar like Flygon was) since The Button was special and had 90BP.
We're literally comparing Ice Cream and Pizza though.

>>31645301
It's obvious falseflagging bro

>>31645211
It's a joke, gen7 is ORAS OU+ Tapus.

>>31645117
Suicune is A rank in gen4
Now it's RU.
Chomp was Uber in gen 4
Now it's A+Rank in gen 7

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>>31645339

>>31645477

>Can't even crack A+

Lmao

>>31645069
Tauros
Snorlax
Tyranitar
Garchomp
Landorus-T
Mega Milf
Greninja

>>31644117
So there's a possibility Lele won't be banned?

>>31644531

Koko threatens Protean Greninja and Celesteela. It's a fast pivot, the high speed really helps.

>play randbats
>completely outplay opponent entire game
>ko'd 5 of his pokemon
>only lost wormadam-trash but it put up rocks and toxiced something so it did its job
>opponents last pokemon is geoxern
>he wins
what a stupid fucking pokemon it's literally autowin 99% of the time unless the opponent has primal groudon or physical aegislash with iron head

>>31644268
the premise for scarf is that you can beast boost either attack or special attack, and invest more into both while still maintaining ludicrous speed

>>31644117
oh fuck did my boi volcarona finally get up in OU

I'm really fucking proud

>>31644268
Phero's weakness is not being able to kill something or getting outsped, with a scarf you remove one weakness

>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing. The still define the meta. And in fact, that Lele dropped means that she was defining the meta so hard people started to over-prepare to her to the point she dropped.
This makes sense and is a completely reasonable post if you swap the first centralizing to viable.
Just because they are slightly less viable doesn't make them any less centralizing.

>>31644499
Another episode of "the meta shifted, everyone is packing 4 lele counters in their team, so it's less broken"

Is this the first gen where gengar wasn't OU?

>>31645758

Yes. It will end up there though.

>>31644117
SO THEY'RE FINALLY HERE, COMPETING FOR YOU
IF YOU KNOW THEIR MOVES YOU CAN JOIN IN TOO
PUT YOUR HANDS TOGETHER IF YOU WANT TO CLAP
AS WE TAKE YOU THROUGH THIS POKE RAP
HUH

OU, OU MONS
O-O-O-OU, OU MONS ARE HERE

>>31645009

Hoopa-U was never uber-worthy. It was banned because stall teams couldn't handle it reliably.

Now, stall can trap it with Dugtrio, which flat-out removes its niche against stall.

What you're left with is a powerful mon with middling speed, no resistances or defensive synergy, and a glaring weakness to U-turn and Pursuit.

Z-moves also kinda undermined its power.

>>31644117
Why is mamoswine so popular on bs lately? And why does it carry icicle spear?
Is it just me or does it always hit 5 times

>>31645758
He dropped in gen3 too
Incoming that retard that thinks I'm talking about ADV200

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HE'S THE MEGA OF THE BUNCH, YOU KNOW HIM WELL
HE'S FINALLY BACK TO MASH THE FRAIL
HIS ZEN HEADBUTT BREAKS TOXAPEX
IF HE HITS YA, YOU'D BETTER CLICK X
HE'S BETTER, FASTER, AND WALLS BULU
HE'S THE BEST MEGA IN SM OU
HUH

OU, OU MONS
O-O-O-OU, OU MONS ARE HERE

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THIS MON'S GOT POWER, SO LISTEN UP DUDES
SHE CAN CHOOSE A MOVE, TO SUIT HER MOOD
SHE'S QUICK AND NIMBLE WHEN SHE WEARS A SCARF
SHE CAN SWEEP YOUR TEAM, MAKE YOU WANT TO BARF
IF YOU CHOOSE HER, YOU'LL NOT CHOOSE WRONG
WITH PSYCHIC SURGE, SHE'S A STAPLE MON
HUH

OU, OU MONS
O-O-O-OU, OU MONS ARE HERE

>>31645775
Garchomp, he's the leader of the pack
you know him well
He's here to stop your setup
He used Dragon Tail

So now that OU is officially done anyone got the updated roster so I can finally organize my shit, please? Same with current BL

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HE HAS NO COUNTERS
HE HAS NO CHECKS
THIS FROG SWEEPS THE POKEDEX
HE CAN TRANSFORM WHEN HE NEEDS TO
OR RUN PROTEAN JUST FOR YOU
INFLATE HIS WATER SHURIKEN JUST LIKE A BALLOON
THIS CRAZY FROG JUST DIGS OU
HUH

OU, OU MONS
O-O-O-OU, OU MONS ARE HERE

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HE'S BACK AGAIN, AND ABOUT TIME TOO
AND THIS TIME, HE'S IN OU
HIS ATTACK GETS HIGH WITH THICK CLUB ON
AND WITH HIS TYPING, WALLS UB MONS
HE'LL MAKE YOU FROWN WHEN HE SWITCHES IN
SO BEASTS BEWARE, HE WANTS TO WIN
HUH

OU, OU MONS
O-O-O-OU, OU MONS ARE HERE

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FINALLY, HE'S HERE FOR YOU
IT'S THE LAST MEMBER OF THE CANCER CREW
THIS MON'S SO STRONG, IT ISN'T FUNNY
CAN MAKE MOST OF OU CRY OUT FOR MUMMY
CAN SET UP OR SWEEP WITH RELATIVE EASE
MAKES CRUSHING ROCK-TYPES SEEM SUCH A BREEZE
HE'S NOT TOO SLOW, HE CAN JUMP HIGH
THIS MON WILL MAKE YOU WANT TO DIE
HUH!

>>31645767
Is he still good though?
Speed creep and power creep really fuck him. Even top lel fucks him, sludge wave is a chance to kill and requires he be full hp to live with sash, and he comes with weakness to spikes, sticky web and the ever present earthquake.

>think z-moves will be just another useless gimmick
>they end up being quite useful and give a lot of options to a lot of pokemon

>>31645775
>>31645790
>>31645799
>>31645814
>>31645824
>>31645839
Nice.

>>31645840
Heck, sludge wave is even a chance to kill tapu fini after a calm mind.

>>31645853
Me too
Especially since you never know if someone is going to run it or not

>>31644310
>why is trash like Decidueye, Primarina and Kommo-o still ranked?
Because Primarina and Decidueye are AMAZING special walls. You literally just mentioned that everyone is running them

>>31645888
primarina is a worse top fin in every way

>>31644523
Well Garchomp just does everything. It's just the most consistent pokemon.
>>31644511
Are you retarded?
If everybody uses A, then people realize that B is really good against A. So people use B to beat A. Then A loses favour, so people realize C is good against B, and A is good against C, and that's how a meta is formed in every game.

This doesn't make A weak, it just means the entire metagame has formed around checking A.

>>31645888
>>31645943
primarina isn't a wall, it's a wallbreaker

>>31645784
It fucks up Koko and Garchomp. Therefore it's instantly good.

>>31645979
>wall breaker
>is walled by some of the most common walls in the universe
nice, i like it

>>31645069
Chansey
Snorlax
Tyranitar
Garchomp
Landorus-T
Clefable
Greninja

>>31645784
>And why does it carry icicle spear?
Because people finally realized that it's better than icicle crash which only does 85 damage and has a 10% chance to miss, whereas icicle spear will always hit and its worse only have a 33% chance to do 50 bp, and on its second worst only do 10 bp less than Icicle Crash, with a third chance to do way better

Tangrowth. At last it is your day.

>>31644860
>competitive
>singles
>>31644635
I'm also glad.
Means I can run Sky Drop on Tapu Koko just to troll Pheromosa.

>>31646019
126 special attack is no joke

>>31646076
ebin

>>31646095
252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 210-247 (52.1 - 61.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

What's to stop mew coming in and just roosting off all your hydro pumps? Same with Chansey. It has a super predictable set and cannot get around any common special walls while also being incredibly frail.

>>31646130
Um, how does this calc help you? You do not switch and start setting up on something that has a high chance of 2HKOing you.

Is my girl Tsareena good for anything in OU?

>>31646184
no

>>31646184
It's retardedly outclassed in OU but it's a great rapid spinner in UU.

>>31646184
Physical wall and cleric. Grass is really good typing this gen. But it's hard to compete with mega venusaur for that role.

>>31646201
>>31646202
>>31646206
Thanks homies.

>>31646179
You can switch a healthy mew into primarina. It's incredibly slow and has to run timid plus almost max speed to outspeed you without any investment, at which point it's not even going to 2hko you.
It can stall hydro pump with roost, it can knock off your specs and there isn't shit you can do about it, and mew is an incredibly common wall so it's not like this is some niche pokemon.

>>31646184
The defensive u turn+rapid spin set has small niches, but there are far better options to consider like tangrowth, unless you direly want a rapid spinner that resist EQ and has good match ups vs fini and Ashninja, literally the only thing I justify using it is in a core with Dugtrio and Koko.

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>buzzwole so bad and irrelevant they changed the banner and took it off

>>31646250
I cant believe they thought Buzzwole would be good.
Such low spd and spe in a meta filled with special sweepers.

>>31646250
>>31646382
>yet ANOTHER "it's not A-rank in OU so it's shit" episode

>>31645069
Tauros
Snorlax
Tyranitar
Garchomp
Lando-T
Clefable
Tapu Lele

>>31644117
this is not the right place to shill smogon
fuck off to your fanfic meta forums
you gotta work harder for that socials badge

>>31646407
they could have at least kept it on the banner

>>31646440
What am I supposed to play? Battle spot 3v3, doubles?

No thanks, I'd rather play a good metagame with actual variation.

>>31646466
fuck off and respect the canon metas faggot

>>31645790
>HE'S THE BEST MEGA IN SM OU
>>31645814
>HE HAS NO COUNTERS
>HE HAS NO CHECKS
>THIS FROG SWEEPS THE POKEDEX

goddamn this is fantastic. I wanna contribute.

C'MON KOKO
U TURN LIKE A BITCH
WALL MONS, SCARF MONS, STEALTH ROCK TYPE SMELLS
STALL, MEGAS, FAIRY TYPES AND STEEL TYPE SHED SHELLS
AW YEAH
WALL MONS, SCARF MONS, STEALTH ROCK TYPE SMELLS
STALL, MEGAS, FAIRY TYPES AND STEEL TYPE SHED SHELLS

>>31646407
No, it's a shit mon because it has no niche. It's supposed to be a heavy hitting, yet physically bulky mon. Except it's not really bulky or strong, because its only good STAB is Superpower, it has x4 flying, and x2 weakness to fire fairy and psychic, the latter 3 being primarily special and the most popular typings right now, meaning he's going to be OHK by everything, he's too easy to swap into, and likewise, you can't swap buzzwole into anything.

>>31646466
What's been played competitively since PKMN has become a 'competitive' game, obviously.

>>31646471
in canon most trainers play singles and use up to 6 pokemon though

>implying a team of Greninja, Lando, Megagross, Lele, Koko, and Pheromosa couldn't make it to number 1

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>>31645790
Masterfully done

>>31644336
king of mentum hallowed be thy name

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing

>>31645661
zygarde is insane in randos too because of power construct getting a free dd against every shitmon

>>31646471
Canon meta, good jokes.

Give me 6v6 and we will talk.

>>31646516

Competitive Pokémon started with stadium, you know. Sleep clause and people not using sand attack/double team out of consideration for the other players.

Smogon picked the torch from these guys.


In short, Nintendo formats are shit.

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing

>>31644555
>Genies
>As in all of them

>>31645069
Tauros
Snorlax
Tyranitar
Tyranitar
Keldeo
Clefable
Greninja

>>31644117
How do we kill memelion
What will it take

>>31647101
A good offensive special ice type with high SATK and an Special Vercion of Pursuit

>>31647101
We don't because things would be worse without him.

>>31644934
What is salachomp?

>>31647101
LO Garchomp Draco Meteor baits him hard to a point it can't switch in again after rocks.

Also, it won't die as long as high attack win con exists, the whole purpose of Lando T is to check them.

>>31647101
Invisible Icicles

>>31644310
Only Kommo-o and Decidueye's threads are closed. The Primarina thread is still open even though it's the same ranking as them, and I remember a couple days ago a guy who said the thread should be locked got his post deleted kek. And I'm a Primarinafag

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing.

>>31647145
http://dogars.org/set/2103

r8 my oc fanfic pokemon ok

it's called fuck genies

ice/ghost
75/120/70/120/70/125
technician / volt absorb / levitate
learns frost breath, ice shard, and my new oc donut steel move called "special ice pursuit"

>>31644336
megaman/beedrill+koko+landorus is gonna be fun

>>31645065
cant hate T tar
garchomp is my favorite psuedo but tyranitar is top 3
kommo-o is third

Didn't know you could battle koko again after the credits and stuff to savescum for the right nature if you didn't catch him after the champion fight.

It's calm nature.
Give it to me straight, how fucked is it?

>>31647697
>smogon
>cart
pls
it's garbage, timid or bust

>>31646473
Thanks. All we need to do now is make an image with all five of them posing together.

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Keep on climbing baby

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>not 0 attack, reset

>>31645784
I'm waiting for Weavile to show back up in ou, He's plenty viable, just not being played

>>31647854

>"Pure Grass types are shit in OU!"

Tangrowth a best.

>>31645242
Since when "Patrician" and "delusional Karenfag" are synonyms?

>>31648122
>>31647854
all we need now is a nice bulky fire type regenerator to complete the FWG regen core.

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing.

>>31645113
>snorlax or suicune in gen 3
>not tyranitar

>>31647888
Magearna doesn't need Hidden Power when it has Fighting coverage and Boltbeam

>>31645790
>>31645799
>>31645814
>>31645824
>>31645839
perfect

>>31645775
Do one for Pheromosa, fampai

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>>31648208
THIS MON'S GOT BEAUTY
SO LISTEN UP DUDES
SHE CAN U-TURN OUT TO SUIT HER MOOD
SHE'S QUICK AND NIMBLE WHEN SHE NEEDS TO BE
SHE CAN KICK IN THE AIR
AND NOT JUST CRASH!
IF YOU CHOOSE HER, YOU'LL NOT CHOOSE WRONG
WITH A KICK AND A JAB
SHE'S ONE COOL MON

>>31648146

I wish they'd give Moltres Regenerator. It's a fucking phoenix, just like Ho-oh.

>>31645888
>Because Primarina and Decidueye are AMAZING special walls.

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Decidueye: 175-207 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO

Most Primarinas I've seen are Specs, so at best I can see it switching in a resist and THEN throw a nuke (unless it has AV for some reason).

Speakin of Jelly:
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 136-160 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- 20.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Would you look at that, It can actually wall some stuff!

>>31646019
Also true for pretty much every other Specs user bar Lele (and that's assuming you have Psyshock & Thunderbolt). In fact, their sheer abundance as of late is the main reason Top Lel dropped in the first place.

>>31646215
I've used Primarina a lot in OU (around the 1500) and I think it works best as a Pivot/Specs hybrid kind of thing. You throw it at something it resist, spam an attack and if they sent you a wall, you switch into something it wrecks it. If you have coverage for the thing they're gonna throw you (HP Fire for Ferrothorn or Psychic for Venusaur), you spam it. And if it's weakened, Sparkling Aria/Hydro Pump can potentially kill lots of things.

It's definitively not a crazy strong starter like Greninja, but it can be pretty useful as long as you know it's limitations.

>>31648304
Perfect!

>>31645882
Frisk might become actually more useful I guess? Too bad it only checks one Pokemon at random.

>>31648589
Not to mention it can literally wall top threats like Ash-Greninja or Keldeo. I've used her too in the 1600s and it's pretty good, nothing crazy like Greninja or Tapu Lele but she's her own niche for sure. Also comparing Primarina to Tapu Fini is really stupid as they fit completely different roles.

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>>31644117
>Ash-Greninja that high
>Zard-X lower

explain this shit smogonfags

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>move tutors will be in the next game giving Ash-greninja Gunk Shot leaving it to die in F tier uber

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>>31650867
>tfw Gunk-shot will allow Ash-Gren to transform on fini/tangrowth

4 Atk Life Orb Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 161-192 (46.9 - 55.9%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO

after transofrming into Ash-Greninja it literally doing almost the same damage.

IKU Z BOYS

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>>31645619
>>31646045
>>31646414
>>31645197
>Garchomp in gen 4
At least try to be consistent in your retardation and place Blaziken in gen 5, Mega Mom in gen 6 and Aegislash in gen 7

give me a competent team only using gen1 mons, preferably without alolans. i'm doing this for a special snowflake tourney with friends.

>>31651678
Are Megas fine?

>>31651839
>>31651678
Also are Mewtwo/Mew allowed?

>>31651678
Boom Boom (you choose the version)
The madman
Specs weedle

>>31651853
no, i'm thinking something with m-venusaur, bulky arcanine, some water type and then magneton (only steel type), clefable (only fairy type worth shit) and dragonite (z-flying because i'm a huge tryhard).

i haven't actually sit through the synergy but they all sound like solid picks for their typings and crap. maybe vaporeon or starmie for the water pick.

>>31651857
w-what.

>>31651839
they are, but i probably don't want to run a m-charizard because of reasons. i was thinking m-venusaur or m-slowbro.

you can guess (>>31651897) i like bulky balanced mons rather than hyper offensive ones.

>>31651913
fug I was building some around Zard Y+Chlorophyll Venu cause it sounded fun. I'll change it to be around Mega Venu+Flynium Z Gyara, which I feel is better than Dnite but are kind of interchangeable.

>>31651678

here you stupid genwunner


Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Solar Beam

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpD
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Knock Off

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Wave
- Sleep Powder

Magneton @ Eviolite
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake

>>31651954
thanks my dude, i had something like most of these in mind already but tentacruel does sound better than other things i had in mind.

>>31651678
http://pastebin.com/ynkgviSX
It's pretty garbage but it's not 6-0d by Chansey like the other one. But if it's with normie snowflakes you probably won't run into one anyways.

>>31652082
sweet, also, what are the benchmarks on the spreads?
like, what is the 16 Spe on venusaur supposed to outspeed?

>>31652242
idk, some of the sets are straight from the Smogon recommended sets for SM.

>>31651254
I didn't add quickbanned Pokémon to the mix.

The Pokémon on those lists are the ones that influenced team building.

In gen1 you had to have at least 2 Tauros answers, losing a check to duggy in Gen3 was fatal, Garchomp was the most influential Pokémon in Gen 4 until it's ban, same goes with Excadrill and those 2 swords of justice becoming the staples for calculation, Zard X is the meta defining mega you have to check.

Why would I put Mega mom if it was that short lived? Aegislash was holy glue but it's influence ended after the ban and the meta Developed far and wide after it, unlike Garchomp and his little cousin Salamence.

This is as far as OU singles and not in other metagames, some Pokémon are the core of team building through a generation.

>>31652242
Max speed adamant azu

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing

>>31652082
>>31651954
>>31651897
how the fuck do you get a soft-boiled clefable, how do you get any of these moves onto a clefable either way.

>>31652839


just give him moonlight.

>>31652882
yeah, did that already. i suppose soft-boiled is better because it doesn't get fucked by bad weather but what gives.

>>31653005
Gen 1 is what gives.

>>31652839
>>31653005
Clefable could get Softboiled through a Gen 3 move tutor

>>31652839

>Play Fr/Lg.
>Keep breeding Cleffa until you get one right nature.
>Move it to ORAS.
>Train/evolve it.
>Finished moveset and feed ability capsule if needed.
>Move to SM and hyper train it.

>>31652366
>Garchomp was the most influential Pokémon in Gen 4 until it's ban
Literaly the only reason it wasn't banned earlier is because a functioning simulator for DP didn't come out until 2008. After it did it took smogon like 3 months to give that thing a boot for the rest of the generation. Garchomp wasn't relevant for the majority of gen 4 and you're just outing yourselves as competitive newfags if you believe otherwise.

>manaphy
What the fuck?

>>31644910
>>31644923

pure fucking wrekt

>>31653107
Also correct me if I'm wrong but smogon didnt start the quick banning nonsense until gen 6 so Blaziken is still relevant :^)

>>31645339
>tiers are literally based on usage
>implying weighted usage stats are not an effective measure of viability

No, you just lost the argument. Convincingly.

>>31653150
z-rain dance makes it a powerful sweeper

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>>31644117
My friend was using Jellicent to check Pheromosa since forever ago. Let me find out he's smarter than the average smogon drone

>>31644542
Put me in le epic screen cap XDDDDDDDDDDDDD

>>31653020
>friend guard

>>31650853
ash grenigger is basically a mega without using a mega slot or item slot

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>Sit down and try to make a VGC team
>Accidentally make another OU team

Fuck

does sun team chlorophyll Venusaur still get used or was it killed by mega venusaur?

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It has been done.

>>31644923
>Gen 5
>Excadrill fucking B+
What the shit is going on here? That post was last updated on October 2015, when did it get the ban hammer?

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>>31657131
>not screencapping the DK OU rap

>>31657131
kek. simply ebin

>>31657147
They unbanned it when they banned the combination of Sand Stream and Sand Rush on the same team. The Drought + Chlorophyll combo was also banned, which is why Venusaur is sitting all the way down in D.

>>31657189
Ahhh, this was all after XY came out.
I'm not a fan of making big changes to a meta after the broad playerbase has left.

>>31645044
Suicoon was barely holding on in DPP

>>31645839
>COME ON SMOGON, BAN THIS SHIT

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>>31657186

Question...

Does Shedninja wall any of these top tier threats?

Outside of Hidden Power, I think Shedninja completely walls Beauty Bug (outside of Bounce and Z-Fling)

>>31658654
Keldeo, and mega-meta i can think of off the top of my head

>>31658422
left out pheromosa

>>31658654
It walls special Koko unless it's running HP Fire

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>>31644542
>Just because they are slightly less centralizing doesn't make them any less centralizing

>Pheromosa A+
>Celesteela A+
>Lunala A- (Ubers)

>Buzzwole B+
>Kartana B
>Solgaleo B- (Ubers)

lol

>>31660886
What did he meanness by this

>>31659254
>not running Thunderbolt/BraveBird/U-turn/Dazzling meme

>>31660897
Moon legends > Sun legends, apparently.