>all the effort in Gen V went into the characters and story,

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i don't understand

are you trying to say gen 5 doesn't have good mons?

because that's wrong

I hope you don't mean to imply Gen V doesn't have good Pokemon or that BW2 didn't have a fantastic regional dex

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>implying this isnt objectively the best design in the franchise

>>31640683
>god tier design
>absolutely garbage stats and no good ghost stab

>>31640624
But B2W2 had a really good Pokedex. Not in terms of outdoing SM's dex in non-native variety, but things like the Habitat List as well.

Ill admit that I still feel kind of ambivalent about most of unova's dex but the idea of it being bad is utter bullshit.

And bw2 have the best regional dex in the series. The early route diversity is fantastic and you can easily have a completely different team in every play though with little effort.

Nothing saves those starters though. Serperior is only good if you breed a contrary one, nothing saves it otherwise. Think of it this way: it just frees up a team slot.

>>31640641
Gen 5 actually has some of the best mons for its time, they are mini Garchomps, decent bulk and a role they could fulfill.

Jellicent, Volcarona, Hydreigon, gothitrap, Reuninclus, Whimsicott, Conkeldurr, Scrafty, Mienshao, Darmanitan and even early shit like Stoutland could actually perform unique shit in pvp and outside of high evolution levels, the Monkeys, no secondary stab Gigalith, Sawsbuck, no movepool klink/Lilligant line they barely fucked up their dex.

Gen5 dex is actually quite good.

>>31640641
Gen 5 has its share of good and bad mons (hence Hydreigon in the OP), and the Tao trio is fantastic in terms of design, lore and sheer coolness. For all the annoying hipster worship that they get on this board, Golurk, Volcarona and Scrafty are also quite unique and interesting.

That said, most of the dex pales in comparison to the effort that went into most Pokémon's designs and personalities in the smaller Gen VI and VII Dexes, which really falls short when they're supposed to be their own, self-sustaining generation. Case in point, the starters, which have hardly any lore or sense of coherency compared to the two trios that followed, as well as lazy stat distributions and typings (especially with Emboar).

>>31640714
I'm mostly talking about the newly introduced Unova Pokémon; the variety of old and new Pokémon is one thing that makes B2W2's dex so great, but the lack of things like Pikachu prevents it from feeling "definitive".

>>31640735
I'll never understrand why they felt the need to go with a Fire/Fighting starter for the third time, Emboar doesn't look awful or anything but it just felt so overdone.

I'm also not really a fan of some of the strangely high levels required for evolutions, for Pokémon like Deino, Mienfoo, Rufflet and Vullaby. Deino I can at least understand somewhat(altough 50 for the first evolution in a 3 stage line is pushing it) but the others just feel really odd especially when you can catch them at a much lower level in some of the more recent games. Vullaby(a juvenile vulture) evolving at level 54 will never make sense.

>>31640876
I have a feeling that, in terms of new Pokémon, all the effort went into the Tao trio and late-game Pokémon like Golurk, Volcarona and the three-stage dragons, while everything else was paid lip service. Especially the starters, but even Zoroark, which is basically just "Dark Lucario so it's guaranteed to sell right?"

>>31640909
I think the worst designs are the ones that are clearly derivative like Seismitoad and Gigalith, although I'm sure both have their fans as well. If they ever do a regional-only selection of Pokémon again they really need to stop applying new coats of paint on old Pokémon.

That said, I really like most of the unique Pokémon like you mentioned. It really is the most hit-or-miss generation in terms of design for me.

>>31640933
Seismitoad is actually pretty unique. Gigalith has an insanely cool design for a Rock-type, and rather it suffers from its awful stat distribution that makes it a strictly worse Tyranitar.

Gen 5 had like 155 new Pokemon though. Even if you don't like the designs the effort was there.

>>31640979
Quality over quantity. Gen V was quantity, Gens VI and VII were quality.

Gen 5's dex was god tier, what are you talking about.

Gen 6 and 7 have too many pokemon that don't evolve.

>>31640996
Not in terms of game quality ofc.
>Gen V had a few stellar Pokémon, mostly "meh" ones that failed to live up to the species they were supposed to replace, but god-tier story, characters and gameplay
>Gen VI had almost all stellar Pokémon and great Mega Evolutions, but "meh" story, characters and singleplayer
>Gen VII has great, well-designed Pokémon that nonetheless have awful stats, good story and characters, and "meh" gameplay

>>31641016
My guess is that they were actively avoiding speed creep with the Gen VII stat distribution. Too bad it just made everyone use the old Pokémon with overpowered speed/(sp) attack combinations.

>>31641016
>a few stellar
More like half was hit or miss. There's quite a few good designs and quite a few meh ones. But only a few bad ones.

>>31640996

Normally I would agree, but I personally think quantity is important for Pokemon. The thrill of a new game in series is finding a new Pokemon, catching it and then potentially evolving it. VI and VII drop the ball here by stuffing their regional Pokedexs with so many older Pokemon that the actually new Pokemon become too rare and the dex is filled with single-stage shitmons.

Like, sure, the series shouldn't devolve into "we introduced 200 scribbles, please enjoy" but there's a balance and I feel Gen V met it while VI and VII didn't.

It's fine if you didn't like Gen V's dex, it was pretty hit or miss admittedly. But I don't get how someone can't pick out at least six mons they like.

>>31641016
>Gen V had a few stellar Pokémon, mostly "meh" ones that failed to live up to the species they were supposed to replace, but god-tier story until last second asspulls and daddy ghethis, ok characters and "WEATGER WAAAAAAARS" gameplay
>Gen VI had almost all stellar Pokémon great Mega Evolutions, and good story, but shitty characters and mediocre singleplayer
>Gen VII has great, well-designed Pokémon that have awful stats, amazing story and characters, and "meh"
gameplay
Ftfy buddy

>>31641100
>6 and 7
>good stories or characters

>>31641076
Actually, I feel that Gen III met that balance better than Gen V. It introduce almost as many new Pokémon as Gens I and V, but among them were perennial fan-favorites like Blaziken, Gardevoir and the weather trio, the creativity is a step up from the two previous gens, and the franchise hadn't run completely dry yet.

>>31641133

You are probably right.

>>31641076
GF really needs to balance out these encounter rates, especially on Pokémon you can only get by fishing. Even with the low amount of new Pokémon we got it still could have felt a lot fresher if Magikarp or Yungoos/Alolan Rattata weren't encountered 90% of the time. 5% encounter rates on every interesting new Pokémon got annoying real quick.

>>31641076
This. This is why I liked gens 3 and 5 best, 5 more because it did what 3 was too much of a pussy to do and forced you to use the new mons and make some new bros.

>>31641133
I'd agree with this anon.

The only flaw would be all the standalone shitmons that it introduced. Good thing Gen 4 fixed that problem at least slightly....

Gen 7 had an easy opportunity to strike a balance with its regional variant concept but not thinking beyond genwun fucked it over. Though I have a theory that the concept was only made to shove more Gen 1 Pokemon in the dex without fucking up type balance in the first place, but that doesn't excuse being blind to its obvious potential or seeing it but purposely ignoring it or handwaving it seeing as the Aether employee who questions why Sudowoodo didn't get an Alola Form exists.

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>>31640683

>>31641133
At the time Ruby/Sapphire came out the general design of Gen III Pokémon turned me off, mostly because I got so used to Gen I/II designs which were extremely similair to each other. Almost every Gen III Pokémon has really grown on me now though, and I'm glad GF tried something a little different.

Maybe the approach Gen VI/VII did is something I would have liked more back then.

>>31641183
The problem with that is that while Gen V did have plenty of bros for everyone to make (only true genwunners would hate each and every Pokémon in the dex), even the coolest Gen V mon would fall short of the favorite Pokémon that you grew up and are most familiar with, regardless of generation.

Case in point: while not Gen V, Tyrantrum in Gen VI is one of the absolute coolest Pokémon concepts ever (a Dragon-type tyrannosaurus) and on paper, it'd have a strong case for being my favorite Pokémon ever. But I prefer Charizard and a few others due to familiarity and iconic status, even though Charizard is a non-Dragon type arguable dragon with worse and more primitive stats and moves than Tyrantrum except when Mega Evolved.

>>31640728
>tfw Lilligant learns a lot of its important moves of its minuscule move set in its pre-evolved state
I can't change my shiny's moveset without editing :'(

>>31641250
Point and case, Lilligant and Klinklang are absurdly cool Pokémon held down by the lack of movepool.

Golurk to some extent.

>>31641287
Klinklang is a Base Breaker though. Its line is often used as a punchline for inanimate object Pokémon in Gen V along with Vanilluxe.

>>31641223
I think GF got a lot of people complaining about the inability to get their old favorites which is why they completely changed their approach to the overabundance of old mons we have now.

I think B2W2 nailed it with it's regional dex though, but would have never happened without BW's selection. Hopefully the next gen can strike a balance instead of yet another region filled to the brim with Kanto Pokémon.

>>31641065
Sad part is that it could have worked if they also added an auto trickroom setter with low speed and u-turn, or maybe high defenses so it could survive and keep setting fresh trick rooms

In fact, just that mon alone woud probably fuck up a lot of fast Pokemon

>>31641333
If BW2 had Pikachu in its regional dex and access to at least the Hoenn and Sinnoh starters and cover legends during the postgame (to match the other legendaries), it'd have been perfect.

Even better if the old starters come with their HA's so you can get Speed Boost Blaziken to wreck the PWT.

>>31641294
True, however try playing with him in Amie/Refresh Klinklang and Cryogonal are absurdly cool there.

To eat Klinklang not only rotates it's center piece to show its mouth orifice, but also uses it's secondary gear as a jaw all while rotating, it's the coolest shit ever, cryogonal having cool petting points and expressing emotions through bioluminiscence is also cool, my shiny Cryogonal changes the orange of its eyes to black when annoyed and bright orange when happy, both are ridiculously awesome.

Also, Lilligant, Cryogonal and Klinklang are really fucked movepool wise.

Gen V did the absolute ballsiest move by actually denying you from Pikachu et al.

Too bad they couldn't commit fully to the soft reboot feel and the dex is plagued of various degrees of gen 1 copies.

In the end, the idea didn't go over well and GF decided it needed more genwun forever and ever.

>>31641452
Like it or not though, Pikachu IS the Pokémon franchise. It's understandable to leave it out of BW's main story apart from a cameo, but it should have at least been available during the postgame and in BW2's Unova dex. Not only does it feel very awkward and arbitrary, but it also made Pika itself more hated at the time because its continued spotlight-stealing in the anime and the rest of the franchise seemed even more forced since it wasn't catchable in Unova at all.

>>31641452
Again, like some anons mentioned before. B/W2's dex did the new + old mons the best. There's an equal balance and distribution of mons in that game and it really shows in team planning and mon gathering. I mean, you could even get a lucario before the 2nd gym if you worked hard enough

>>31641641
Tbh, BW2 had more Gen V Pokémon than Pokémon from Gens I-IV combined, which fits but makes it a bit of a stretch to call the balance "equal".

Basically, BW1 should have had BW2's dex plus Pikachu, and BW2 should have had that dex plus a Platinum-like expansion.

>>31641187
that alolan sudowoodo joke is the biggest middle finger to fans i've seen so far.

>>31641699
>which fits but makes it a bit of a stretch to call the balance "equal"
It's still MUCH more balanced than SM's dex, where there's more Kanto mons than Alola mons, about twenty to thirty from the other regions and less than twenty from Kalos.

>>31642203
I have mixed feelings on the balance. I love the Alola Dex BECAUSE it has so many familiar favorites and isn't as overwhelming as the Kalos Dex, so the older mons don't feel as drowned out. And as a counterpoint to BW2, not only does it include Pikachu but it gives it a new evolution too with a unique typing.

That said, it's hard for me to say whether it's more balanced than BW2's dex IMO, but for sure Hoenn is up there as well. If the Island Scan Pokémon were in the Alola Dex then it'd be even better.

>>31642336
*newer mons don't feel as drowned out

>>31641100
>Gen 6
>Good story
Did it even have a story, or anything at all other than just dragging on to finish?

>>31642486
It did, between the last two gyms. That's it.

What we got with AZ and Lysandre was fantastic, but a huge waste of potential since it barely had anything of a presence otherwise. And then you get a big sentimental Disney end-credits ballad as if you just finished a grand journey when in reality all that happened was a bunch of kids screaming "MEGA EVOLUTION" repeatedly.

>>31640735
>sense of coherency compared to the two trios that followed

Kek. He doesn't know.

>>31640735
>Pikachu prevents it from feeling "definitive".

>Actually giving a shit about Pikachu

>>31640624
Good designs to including your pic related. V is still my number 1 gen.

>>31641493
Pikachu isn't even that popular. It's just famous. I don't think I've ever met anyone whose favorite Pokemon was Pikachu.

>>31643172
Most normies favorite are either Pikachu, Mewtwo or whatever Kanto starter they choose though.

>>31643290
>forgetting Mew
It was the hero of the first movie, don't forget.

>>31640624
>>all the effort in Gen V went into the characters and story
Really? I didn't see it. I saw effort poured into a few shitty CUTSCENES. That's about it. The actual story was just a Tumblr fanfic. Lauded by anime dweebs perhaps, hence /vp/'s infatuation with it.

>>31642802
Unovabortions are indifferent to Pikachu because it isn't in their games.
Not to mention that back in the day, they HATED the thing for continuing to steal the spotlight in Best Wishes, the TCG, merchandise and crap despite its game absence.

>>31640624
>The gen that made the regional dex ONLY have new mons
>Didn't put effort into the Pokedex

Nigga what?