What went so wrong?

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>>31625047
>Volcarona is A rank

>>31625047
How is Tyranitar hanging around A- still?

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>>31625047
>Ash-Greninja is A+
How? is it that good?

>>31625100
Better than Protean

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>>31625100
>and Protean Greninja is S
Hope you enjoy seeing frogs, also yes it's fucking good.

>>31625100
Have you been living under a rock.
>>31625073
It's the only quiver dancer that actually has good stats. Pheromosa is way too frail for it, but then she doesn't really need it to be good.

>>31625116
>she

kill yourself

>>31625047
Fairy-type. And transformations.

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>>31625106
>>31625109
but protean is S tier, so why Ash is better?

>>31625116
i prefer VGC, but sometime i play in smogon ou

Explain Ash-Greninja situation. isn't it worthless weak shit without protean? is the transformation making it that good? how do you even get kills with it?

>>31625134
>but protean is S tier, so why Ash is better?
Protean is only S because it checks Ash-Greninja's counters and checks. That one thing alone makes it S tier. You have to be a retard not to realize that.

>>31625134
Many people run specs on Greninja

>>31625134
Getting kills isn't that hard if you hold a choice specs thanks to that speed. Just revenge kill something on the verge of death and you're good to go. Then it gets even faster, has great power, and water shuriken becomes a consistent 60 BP STAB priority move that can break subs and sashes. It's pretty good. In fact it's so good that people have become too prepared for it and not protean, and now protean has risen due to that.

>>31625165
Protean is S because it's significantly more versatile than Ash-Greninja. Ash-Greninja is pretty much locked into being a Specs nuke, and is outclassed by Protean in all other roles (mainly as a mixed attacker and a Spiker). Ash-Greninja still damn good at being a specs nuke though.

>>31625134
Specs Hydro is still fairly strong, but yeah, usually you just need to wait until your opponent has no choice but to sack something to it way later in the game after their team has been significantly worn down, usually on a revenge kill. Vs most Pokemon, you'd be absolutely willing to sack your 6% Landorus when someone revenge kills it, but vs Ash-Greninja you put yourself at a significant (and often unpreventable) disadvantage by doing so.

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>>31625183
>>31625181
>>31625218
>>31625165

So throw specs on him, get the kill and it's good as Protean? damn. Need to try the nigga. good teammates?

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>>31625047
Zard in ou

>>31625073
Literally the only thing keeping it from climbing high into OU last gen was gale wings. Volcarona is a fantastic setup if you get rid of rocks and don't attempt to setup on a physical mon or a water mon god help you if you try and setup on one of the few rock types in the teir.

>>31625387
Alolan Persian with darkinium z

Gotta love that z parting shot

>>31625218
You don't seem to understand the current Meta. I'm assuming you don't play OU often.

Ash-Greninja is fucking God tier cleaner. If you aren't thoroughly prepared for it, you're done. There's no way to win. Protean gets an opportunity to shine only because Ash-Greninja is much more stronger and useful.

>>31625387
Mega Metagross cleans up a lot of specially defensive Pokemon that can challenge Ash-Greninja, and Magma Storm Bloom Doom (or even Power Herb Solarbeam if you want to use another Z-Move) Heatran can lure and trap a good amount of bulky waters that wall it as well as beat Grasses. Dugtrio is always something that can be used to support another sweeper. Anything that can make big dents in the enemy team like Tapu Lele works well since you need a free revenge kill to transform.

>>31625430
Is it Talonflame all over again?

>>31625504
It hits just as hard with priority, if that's what you're asking. In some ways, worse than Talonflame since it can break through Substitute with its priority. It is limited to one move, but that hardly matters.

Tapu hell
Greninja: classic edition
Greninja: Special Talonflame edition
U-turn Lion

>>31625430
>If you aren't thoroughly prepared for it, you're done.

Last month Tapu Fini had 18% usage last month (and will probably be over 20% in this month's stats), Toxapex still all the way up at 12%, and Tapu Bulu at 9%, landing all of them in top 20. About 7% of the metagame (and about 25% of the tournament metagame) is stall, which usually has both Toxa and Chansey.

Pokemon that by themselves are already amazing and comprise the top tiers of usage also happen to keep Ash-Greninja in check fairly easily, and while activating Battle Bond does give you a significant advantage, it does not guarantee you a win by any means. The metagame is thoroughly prepared for it despite the fact that it's incredibly strong, which is why it's A+.

Protean Greninja is harder to mitigate, each different variation has different counters, so you need to feel out which set the opposing Greninja has before you can properly play around it. Chansey fears its physical movepool, Toxapex and Venusaur can't deal with Extrasensory, and Fairies can't deal with Gunk Shot. Sableye is also a Pokemon that's typically utilized to deal with hazard setters, but Greninja is a Spikes user that simply deals too much damage for Sableye to safely deal with. Protean is less one-dimensional and more difficult to mitigate. Ash enabling Protean is more of a /vp/ meme than reality (it's not false, but compared to everything else I've stated here it's pretty much irrelevant).