Mewnium Z, Staraptor, and Victini banned from UU

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>>31614426
FUCKING BL AGAIN

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FUCK YOU IM QUITTING SMOGON MY BRO STARAPTOR GOD FUCKING DAMN IT

Will Staraptor ever catch a break?

Every gen, it's too good for UU, but not good for OU.

BL 4 GENS AND COUNTING

I actually thought victini would stay

STARAPTOR IS TRASH WHY WOULD IT BE BANNED FROM UU, IT SHOULD BE RU AT BEST, IT'S SLOW AND FRAIL AS SHIT AND MOST GOOD POKEMON CAN EASILY KILL IT
NO BIRD POKEMON IS EVER FOOD, STOP TREATING STARAPTOR LIKE IT'S STILL GEN 4
YES, I'M MAD

>>31614467
Victini has no place in UU, it has too many sets. Its typing isn't great but that doesn't matter when your only real choice is to revenge kill it.

>>31614426
Is Sam our guy?

>>31614426
>Mewnium Z
It's only been out for a few days. da fuck?

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REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>Starcuck has been BL since its introduction

>>31614513
>Free Psychic Terrain after a goddamn 185 BP nuke

Gee I wonder why

How does this nigger keep up ending in BL? Rise or fall for Christ's sake, Staraptor pisses me off because he's too good and too bad at the same time and always has been that way.

>>31614426
thats what 18 pokemon in BL ?

at this point you might as well just call BL UU drop everyone a tier and create a new one at the bottom

>>31614561
Apparently it has something to do with usage. A tier needs to have 40+ mons to be a tier

>>31614561
If the meta you just described would be fun or balanced these Pokémon would never have been banned in the first place.

>>31614561
Yeah, BL is a fuckin joke right now.

There has always been the need for a tier between Over and Under Used, anyways. Moderately Used? Just Used?

>>31614561
Gen 3 had like 50 mons in BL bro, 18 is nothing.

>>31614579
OU is a tier where Coverlegendaries and select others are banned
UU is a tier where commonly used Pokémon are banned. This does not mean UU itself would be balanced, so it has BL as it's own banlist.

So basically the ones that escaped BL hell are:

-Togekiss, Hawlucha and regular Alakazam who dropped to UU
-Mega Gyarados and Mega Alakazam who got promoted to OU

Reasonings:

>Genesis Supernova turns Mew into a ridiculous wallbreaker and sweeper, capable of plowing through even bulky resists like max HP Scizor at +2. After this, Mew can easily pick up massive damage or more kills with Terrain-boosted Psychic while invalidating priority users such as Bisharp, Scizor, and Azumarill that try to revenge kill it. With only Nasty Plot and Psychic as necessities, Mew has tons of options to get through anything it needs, including coverage moves like Flamethrower, Aura Sphere, and Dazzling Gleam to beat Dark types, Psyshock to break through Blissey, and Rock Polish to beat its usual revenge killers. We are using the precedent set by LC banning Eevium Z to ban Mewnium Z, not Mew, as Mew is clearly not broken without Genesis Supernova.

>With an excellent offensive typing, Staraptor was banned for its raw power and above-average Speed, making it either a devastating breaker with Choice Band or an ideal cleaner/revenge killer with Choice Scarf. In particular, offense doesn't have many options to deal with Scarf Staraptor, which can easily rack up kills against the majority of the tier.

>Victini is as insane of a wallbreaker as it was last generation, and it has the power and coverage to beat anything defensive. Choice Band sets especially put huge pressure on teams where it could capitalize on common Pokemon like Scizor, Cobalion, and Sylveon, with V-Create easily doing 60-70% to offensive resistances like Azumarill and Keldeo. While this was one of the more controversial bans, Victini was still warranted potentially broken enough to deserve a suspect in the future.

Smogon is gay prove me wrong

>>31614624
John Smogon is married and has kids.

>>31614624
being gay is acceptable these days

>>31614624
ur not wrong most of senior staff is gay and doesn't care about the site anymore. most regular mods hate them.

>>31614641
Why do borderline things even exist?
Lucario mega should be in OU if ash greninja is OU.

>>31614561
To be fair that's just one pokemon more than last gen. This may change when other Megas get released, especially Pidgeot, Gallade and Altaria (which were BL), but as of right now the situation is not that much worse than Gen VI

>those glorious months in Gen 4 UU before Gallade and Staraptor were banned and SubRoost Sharp Beak Staraptor just shredded every single team
>those hilarious few weeks when Porygon-Z and Cresselia dropped right at the end and everything was a clusterfuck
What a fun format. Wish I could go back.

>>31614658

M-Lucario can be either physical or special, and has tons of options; Ash-Greninja only has one set, and that's Water Shuriken/Hydro Pump/Dark Pulse/U-turn w/ Choice Specs

Ash-Greninja is good, but it's very predictable once you know that it has Battle Bond

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>>31614426
I feel like Smogon does this as a running joke at this point

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>>31614426
>yet another generation of Staraptor being sent to Purgatory

>>31614426
inb4
>just make BL its own tier!
All of the mons in BL right now besides Staraptor are totally viable in OU. Someone posts this in every thread and it's always retarded.

BLRaptor: The Movie.

>>31614760
>>31614759
>Staraptium-Z in next game

stargod

>>31614672
>those hilarious few weeks when Porygon-Z and Cresselia dropped right at the end and everything was a clusterfuck
well there was a hilarious 2 weeks when porygon-z dropped this gen

love the duck but conversion-z was utter insanity in UU

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>4 generations of BL

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>20 things banned from UU already

I understand why they're doing it, but I'm wondering if they're just trying to recapture Gen 6's UU if they're just gonna ban literally everything that dropped from OU.

UU, OU, and Ubers need to be pooled then redistributed into four tiers.

>>31614928
No

>>31614928
Would would this magical fourth tier be and where would it go?

>>31614928
>>31614941
>what is RU

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>>31614426
How has this thing not gotten powercreeped yet? You'd think if it wasn't good enough for OU in gen 4 it would be RU by now.

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>ban list will soon be bigger than the actual tier

>>31614950
Flying just kept getting better offensively, all the slow mons dropped making Raptor's 100 speed too good for lower tiers, CC is great neutral coverage, and Reckless boosts its power and also kills it since its best move is recoil

>>31614881
Most of the bans are necessary. Many of the threats banned only have real counters that are currently OU. The only one I don't really think was necessary was Breloom.

>>31614881
They've let Scizor, Thundurus, Latias, Bisharp, Azumarill, Hippowdon and Keldeo stay off the top of my head, there's probably more

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>>31614426
>A 2/3 majority (8/12 votes) will be needed to unban each Pokemon
But only 50% needed to ban it in the first place with minimal testing
So glad I dropped out of this bullshit back in gen 4

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>>31614984
>They let Scizor, Thundurus and Azumarill stay

Holy fucking cancer. Off to RU I go, assuming it ever gets fucking finished.

>>31614984
I hope Scizor gets banned, that thing is fucking obnoxious, I can't be the only one who fucking hates it.

>>31614990
It's so they can get the obnoxious, overpowered shit out before people drop the tier. I'm assuming such a big majority is needed because it has to be unanimous that the pokemon in question is no longer leaps and bounds above the rest.

>>31615002
>implying RU will ever get finished

>>31614984
They voted for Azu to leave too, but just didn't make the cut. At this point Primarina and Sylveon might end up being the only offensive fairies in the tier.

>>31614594
Gen 3 BL is 100% arbitrary
No one played any tiers lower than OU back then

Is Staraptor the king of BL?

>>31614770
It's true.
And Staraptor isn't particularly bad this gen either, thanks to Talonflame being shit rn.

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>>31614602
>Mew is clearly not broken without Genesis Supernova.
Genesect is also clearly not broken without the almighty U-turn, deban when?

>>31614984
Scizor isn't actually broken at all in UU. Neither is Latias, Hippowdon, nor Bisharp. They've been UU before with the exact same tools as now, except Z-moves obviously.

>>31615108

It is actually since Genesect can also run Rock Polish (special) and Shift Gear (physical) sets.

That's why Genesect is so threatening. Not because of U-turn, but you can expect it to U-turn, but then it uses Rock Polish/Shift Gear and sweeps your team.

>>31615108
Except you can't ban U-turn since everyone and their mothers uses it, but only Mew can use Mewium Z.

>>31615108
Banning Mewnium-Z is like banning Soul Dew in Gen 3-6, so nope.

They were THIS close to getting away with something similar, tho. Protect Aegislash, anyone?

So, is mewium Z banned from UU only, right. Can it be used on OU?

>>31615121

Scizor was always BL until Platinum because it didn't have Bullet Punch before then

>>31615138

UU only, yes

There's little reason to use it in OU because Tapu Lele exists

>>31615121
scizor has never been uu, and bisharp was only uu in gen 5 because knock off + dark buffs wasn't a thing yet.

What's the BL this gen so far? Is it the usual suspects?

>>31615162
Scizor was UU in the beginning of last gen until it rose to OU because they didn't seperate Mega Scizor from regular Scizor.
Bisharp was also UU for a few months last gen until it eventually rose. Bisharp will rise eventually anyway, it's too good in OU right now.

>>31615002
>This tier is cancer so I'll go down to another tier!
I never understood this mentality. The tiers just become more hyper offensive oriented and more of a cluster fuck the more you go down.

>>31615187
That's not true at all. They usually ban anything that resembles slight hyper offense, like how they banned Venomoth from RU last gen.

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>>31615179

These guys + Staraptor and Victini

>>31615144
Scizor's typing was very valuable in ADV but no one used it in UU anyway.
Scizor wasn't BL in D/P I reckon. It was UU and then rose.

>>31615192
That doesn't matter when the defensive mons become exponentially worse than the offensive mons the further you go down. I'm no expert on RU and below, but I'm pretty sure something like RU Bulky Offense isn't a thing.

>>31615196
These are all great in OU except maybe Breloom.
OU is filled with new toy syndrome right now, eventually and hopefully more stuff in this banlist will go away with time.

>>31615212
>Bronzong
>Tangrowth
>Quagsire and Gastrodon
>Registeel
>Mega Steelix and Shuckle before they were banned
Nigga what are you talking about

>>31615196
I think lots of these guys will rise into OU when the January usage stats come out.

>>31615221
Tangrowth is OU tho?

>>31615192
RU is stall/balance
NU is hyper offense
PU is super hyper mega offense
At least that's how it was in ORAS

>>31615245
What about FU?

>tiers are based on usage
What did John Smogon mean by this?

What exactly is the purpose of BL

Why don't they just put all the BL shit in OU seeing as that's the lowest playable tier?

>>31615295
BL servers as a banlist for a tier.

>>31615306

but there's no banlist between OU and Uber

Shit like Deo-N has <1% playrate

>>31615295

OU stands for OverUsed

They're too strong for UnderUsed, but not used enough to be considered OverUsed

Hence why BL (Borderline) exists

>>31615314
because Ubers was first and foremost, a banlist. It only became a legitimate tier later.

>>31615314
Ubers was originally a banlist and it still is to some extent. They won't do that because it'd be confusing new players and make the entire usage thing pointless

>>31615346
But BL already makes tiers by usage pointless.

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>>31614426
What is the UU council even doing? Every gen they ban like 30 Pokemon even though those 30 could be the base for the actual UU tier. What is the point of having such a massive banlist? It's called power creep and it happens every gen, so why is the UU council so afraid of it? It seems they just want to keep things like they were in Gen V because they keep banning stuff left and right until something like Crobat is top tier and then they're like "yeah, this is good" and they repeat the same process every single time a new generation is out. OU changes with every new generation because of all the new threats (just like it's supposed to) while UU stays pretty much the same with like one or maybe two additions because everything else gets quickbanned by the council without any suspect testing. When things like Keldeo, Dragonite and Hippowdon are dropping down to UU, something like Staraptor sure as hell isn't broken.
>muh tiers are based on usage meme
Sure as hell doesn't apply to UU

>>31615233
It was RU last gen for a long long time. Only three months before ending did it rise.

>>31615245
NU isn't hyper offense either. PU is super balanced, wtf are you talking about.

>>31615363
10 mons out of 800 and something (not counting alternate forms, megas and a bunch of other stuff) is hardly the same as making tiers pointless.

>>31615421
Did you reply to the wrong person?

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>>31614426
Victini was UU?
The fuck?

>>31615369
Imagine you had a tier of LC mons, then sprinkle a couple Ubers in there. Obviously this isn't a 1:1 correlation, but I think this is the mentality the UU council is adopting. It's hard to just say "power creep" and leave it at that, as the mons who don't force a KO every turn become useless in the face of those that do. Teams might naturally become hyper-offensively oriented, I think. It's easy to see why, as the mons who do check these monsters--like Char-Y, Staraptor, Z-Fly--are all stuck in OU.

>>31614426

Staraptor honestly has the hardest life.

>>31615443
New toy syndrome pushed some stuff down a tier. It had no business being in UU.

>>31615439
I'm talking about how banlists are, percentual-wise, small changes compared to the whole thing.
UU in particular last gen had like 40 mons exclusively (not even counting lower tiees and banlists) and like 15 or something banned mons. It was fine.

>>31615443
It happens with every gen. Previously banned pokes are tested in case they're not broken anymore. Some stay (Hoopa-U) and some leave (Genesect, Aegis, etc).

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>>31614426
>Banning Staraptor and Mewnium before handing le cancer bat a big fuck you notice
Gliscor does not belong in UU you smogon HACKS

At least they banned victini, that shit was getting really fucking annoying.

>>31615480
Speaking of Hoopa, how is its status in OU?

>>31615489
Piloswine used icy wind

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>>31615468
now wait just a minute

>>31614561
Smogon is actually trying to keep UU from just turning into last gen's OU this time. It doesn't feel too bad, but there are still a couple mons that should be banned.

>>31615369
I don't think you understand the purpose of the bans. It's not to keep the power level the same as ORAS, it's banning things that are too powerful for the tier currently. Dragonite, Mence, Volc, Gyara, and PZ were all insanely powerful as they set up on almost any mon and were sometimes impossible to stop. Torn T was an unkillable monster, nothing killed Mega Bro, Terrak gets kills almost every time it comes in, etc.

>>31615499
Every week they ban things. We'll see more bans in the following weeks.

What's the most common set for Staraptor? Is it still just either banded or scarfed?
I suppose Z-Mirror Move is probably too niche for it.

>>31615391
NU is mostly offense. PU has no walls besides Audino

>>31615489
Gliscor is good but I don't think it's too good for UU. It's mainly defensive, and it has a really potent weakness, while not being a huge threat you have to shut down immediately.

>>31614602
>Victini might get suspected in the future
I hope not, that shit is strong enough to break down pretty much every bulky mon in the tier.

>>31614770
This is pretty true. I still run Z-Conversion pory-Z and it does well as a late game sweeper pretty consistently.

>>31615522
Regice? Vullaby? Articuno? Gourgeist? Quagsire?

>>31615503
>Dragonite, Mence, Volc, Gyara, and PZ
>Torn T
>Mega Bro, Terrak
>etc.
Now, if you allowed all of these in the tier at the same time and gave the players time to adapt, would all of them still be broken? No, because that's what power creep is all about.

>>31615509
Except this was the last wave of quickbans before UU goes out of beta

It's amazing how nobody here read up on how UU does their suspect tests and why they chose to make BL so big.
>>31615263
FU was bulky offense.

>>31615517
Banded or Scarfed. Z-Mirror Move has it's uses, but you might want to use a Z move in something else.

>>31615491
It's a A-. Good at it's job, but screwed badly by fast tapus, the frog bros. and Pheromosa.

>>31615550
Oh you're right. Time for regular suspects then. Hopefully a ton of stuff will rise to OU come this month.

>>31615477
But why pretend tiers are by usage? Just tier all mons based on how objectively good they are, like the ones who are in BL are judged.

>>31614881
Not true. A lot of the remaining OU mons aren't that big a deal. Like Scizor and Bisharp who both are easily countered by mons that were UU last gen even.

Thunderous is the only really annoying one, and that's only because THEY STILL HAVEN'T BANNED DRIZZLE AND RAIN TEAMS ARE A HARD COUNTER TO MY TEAM

Keldeo kind of sucks to deal with too, but it's walled by shit like Mandibuzz even.

>>31615546
Yes because they have no walls

>>31615560
What do you mean 'pretend'? Apart from a minority of mons, the hugely crushuing majority of mons is in a tier by usage.

>>31615546
>gave the players time to adapt, would all of them still be broken
Saying "Just adapt" isn't an argument. All of these mons were absolutely dominating and overpowering. If you drop something like Darkrai to OU, people will adapt, but it will be overpowering. There is no universe in which something like Torn T or Dnite will be balanced in UU.

>>31615491

It's fine atm becasue of DUDE,FANNY FAIRY LMAO. Also Alolan Muk does well against it as well.

but that might change depending on the move tutors we get next game.

>>31615523
The only issue I have with gliscor in UU is that I'm not sure how to counter it until I know what set it's running. I have my Pory2 run Ice Meme just for shit like this and hippowdon, but if I don't know what set it's running I might have to sac the eviolite or risk one of my two defensive cores getting toxed.

>>31615560

It's painfully obvious to anyone reasonably intelligent that you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about or how tiers work. Please stop trying to participate.

>>31615578
If under used mons are not in UU, then tiers aren't made by usage.

>>31615496
No one cares about Farfetch'd since it's been shit since it's inception.

Staraptor has been in limbo since its creation

>>31615491
It's one of my favorite mons to use, but I find myself building with it less. Even when it's on my team I find it very hard to get in, and when I can bring it in I usually have better options. Only floating around 1400-1500 so that's not very representative of the meta, but it certainly became weaker.

>>31615557
I think the biggest shift will come once more Megas are out. Stuff that's in the 40-50 usage range will drop like flies and end up either in BL or UU.

>>31615568
>More than 20 Pokemon can all be equally broken at the same time in a certain tier without any of them being able to check/counter the others
>This is what UU players actually believe

>>31615581
>If you drop something like Darkrai to OU [...]
Well obviously if you drop JUST Darkrai. However, if you drop 19 equally powerful Pokemon at the same time, Darkrai isn't such an issue anymore now is it?

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>>31615560
Because good mons tend to get used more than mons that aren't as good, and popularity is generally a good indicator for how good something is in competitive pokemon. I don't understand how you can't come to that conclusion yourself.

>>31614541
>252+ SpA Life Orb Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 411-485 (128 - 151%)
>151%
The madmen.

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>>31615600
It's better to have unrealized potential than it is to be cosmically screwed from the beginning of time.

Staraptor is at least useable in-game without the game feeling like a challenge run.

>>31615622
Dropping any combination of 20 uber/ou mons to a lower tier would be a disaster. It would be impossible to check every threat presented. As someone who played a lot of the UU Alpha before the bans were in place, it was an absolute cluster fuck. Extremely Hyper Offense oriented, even building with the most dangerous threats in mind there were multiple things that could easily 6-0 a team and set up on 4/6 mons. Most matches were decided at team preview.

>>31615540
Have you actually played PU? Regice was used as a RP sweeper, Articuno was NEVER used defensively, Quagsire is banned. I guess Gourgeist and Vullaby count but it's almost impossible to build a soild stall team in PU

>>31615665
Quag dropped to PU in the final tier shift of ORAS.

>>31615644
>life orb
>genesis supernova
pick one

>>31615665
Avalugg, Dusknoir, Clefairy, Probopass, Golem, Lickilicky. Your turn.

>>31615733
I wasn't naming a team btw, just 6 more mons playable in stall.

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>Drizzle is still not banned

Well, there goes my plans of building in UU this gen, I don't want to get BTFO by Kabutops.

What is "BL"?

>>31615314
Ubers is THE BANLIST. It is where usage based play ends.

There is no need for a BL tier in between OU and Ubers since Ubers doesn't use usage as a metric.

>>31615560
>Just tier all mons based on how objectively good they are, like the ones who are in BL are judged.

Yeah, have "The Council" decide tiers, that'll go over great with the community

>>31615767
boys love

>>31615695
It was banned right before SM

>>31615733
Avalugg is shit in every team archetype, especially stall
Dusknoir is straight up unusable
Clefairy is utility not really fit for stall
Probopass is either offensive or utility
Golem is exclusively offensive
Lickilicky is a bad Audino
If you're gonna name random mons with high defences I'm gonna pass because I'm not really having fun with this

>>31615732
It was a joke senpai. But man that move is busted regardless.

>>31615763
Have you tried the strategy of git gud?

>>31615774
Pretty much this.

Smogon isn't tyrannical, it's more of a meritocracy outside of self established guidelines on gen4.

Do you know why smogon didn't fall into obscurity like all the other fanformats?

It's simple there wasn't an autistic fag assigning points or a rating to the Pokémon and let the players go wild and then set stuff up based on the usage of a Pokémon followed by respective bans when something shits on the guidelines.

Smogon it's a true user based format.

>>31615813
Dusknoir is B+. Clefairy sets usually have Toxic. Utility sets for probo and golem are both viable in stall.
Like, you're just sperging out shit. But okay whatever, PU is hyper offense, even if they banned shell smashers and victrebell.

>it'd be confusing new players and make the entire usage thing pointless
Good!

>>31615860
I got Dusknoir cofused with Dusclops. Dusknoir is 100% offensive no way around it. Clefairy never uses Toxic. Also
>lololol they banned something that was used on HO that means HO is dead
Yeah, I'm clearly the one sperging out shit here

>>31614602

>Normal Flying

>"offensive typing"

>>31615929

It is when you have Double-Edge, Brave Bird (powered up by Reckless), and Close Combat

>>31615212
I played a lot of PU last gen and stall was always decent or more.

>>31615949
isn't ow the Double-Edge also powered up by Reckless?

>>31615780

No, really. Red pill me pls.

>>31614426
Just give Staraptor a mega so he can be OU gamefreak

>>31615970
Borderline
Too good for UU, but not used enough to be OU

>>31615970
The most reddit thing that was ever said

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>>31614426
BL made into Commonly Used tier when?

>>31616034
I'd rather explain it in reverse.

>>31614426
BL should be renamed Staraptor's Nest

>>31616171
For what reason; most things in BL are functionally fine in OU.

Another tier would just mean another council and more bans trying to balance a new meta.

>>31616171
>>31614770

What makes Mewinum Z so strong? If it caused Psychic Terrian prior to attacking I could see it but it causes it after the damage calc.

>>31615157
Psychic Terrain backup when Lele's banned

>>31615850
>Meritocracy
Wouldn't it be nice if it went in reverse, though? Like when a poorp layer goes against a goodp layer they get osme knid of handicap? That'd be nice. Someone needs to look out for the shitters and let them have a little fun, there are far more of them than people who are good.

>>31616244
Nasty plot + Genesis Supernova + Terrain boosted psychic + Every coverage option = An unparalleled wallbreaker in the UU tier

Don't underestimate Mewnium Z just because you don't have terrain while using it. At +2 (Mew has enough bulk to set up) a 185 base power nuke will hurt anything that's not a dark type.

>>31615314

Ubers is a ban list first and a tier second. Mega Fug getting banned from ubers was a big deal because it got banned from the ban list. Deoxys N may just be a shit Deoxys A and thus worthless in uber but it's still too strong for OU.

>>31616335
>there's a new OM that lets a Pokemon activate all of the setup moves it knows each time one of its attacking moves activates a secondary effect
>Genesis Supernova's Psychic Terrain counts as a secondary effect

>>31616345
What would Ubers be like if it were done by usage? Like Ubers is the new OU and Mega Ray is the new ubers? Would things be different at all?

>>31614426
Sleep tight, Raptor.

>>31616408

Reshiram and the like would drop to BL. That's about it.

FOUR
FUCKING
GENS

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How low Talonflame fell down?
Is it actually good whenever he is?

I still angry about that horrifying nerf. even with Z-move i can't save him. why did they killed him

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>>31616478
You know there's a Talonflame version of that Troubled bird right?

>>31616408
Magearna, Tapu Lele, Toxapex, Ferrothorn, Smeargle, Ditto, and Pheromosa would remain OU.
A shitton of old Ubers would go to BL. Without Lele and Toxapex around, both Greninja would probably go there as well.

>>31616478
It's a faster, shittier Charizard, so most likely NU or PU. Unlike Charizard it also has no real coverage, so leaning toward PU. At least the Bulk Up set might be fun down there.

>>31616478
Thel ower it drops the shittier it gets since lower tiers don't have as many Defog/Rapid Spin/MAgic Bounce options

>>31616478
I think it gets play in RU

>>31616521
>faster shittier Zard

isn't having Brave Bird make it better because how good flying coverage is instead of
>Air Slash
i mean it's actually having C- viability in OU.

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>>31616538
>>31616521
>>31616555

If not for fucking Ash-Greninja, i would not even bother with gen7.
Seriously, that Nerf almost made me to cancel my preorder. Fuck gamefreak. it didn't deserved this shit.


>Ash-Greninja Water Shuriken can hit as hard as Talonflame
it's still not the same. i wanted to use both.

>>31616595
Who knows, maybe they'll buff it to activate as long as the user is above 50% HP next gen. I doubt it, though. It wouldn't be the same, but it'd be something approaching balanced.

>>31614480
>no bird Pokémon Is ever food

Who do you think you're kidding?

>>31616743
Poor Farfetch'd.

>>31615987
>mega remains with 100 base speed and its outclassed by the Choice Band sets
>it's also sent to BL

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>tfw my bro Swellow finally UU

>>31614624
Whats wrong with being gay? You're not a homophobe are you?

>>31616595
This. Talonflame was one of my favorite Fire types just to be nerfed by Gamefreak. It sucks man.

>>31616521
>>31616595
>>31616478
are you retarded

It's the 26th most used. https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/#wcs

The Gale Wings nerf only mattered for its longevity. Tailwind is still the best speed control in the game, and Talonflame is still the best at using it.

Fucking idiots.

Much skill, Banded Brave Bird+Earthquake spam. Only a geneus could deevise such pro stratz.

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>>31617441
>Posting about doubles in a thread clearly about singles

>>31617132
Everything new were just temporarily UU until the stats come out.

>>31617544
>not playing doubles

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>>31617441
>thread is clearly about Smogon singles
>"bird is bad in singles"
>"NO IT'S NOT YOU FUCKING IDIOT CHECK OUT THESE DOUBLES STATS"