What went right?

>>31537976
Nothing. This Pokemon is the face of the new Game Freak: low quality genwun pandering.

>>31537976
pretty much everything
just 5 move slot syndrome

BURASTO BAAN

>>31537976
Everything except the SpA stat. They should've raised it's Speed instead of that.

>>31537976
competitively, great offensive typing, one f the most vast movepools in the game, baring mew and raichu, and a great stat distribution, on top of turn 1 unpredictability since you didn't know what mega it is until it uses a move.

Design wise, nothing, its so fucking basic its not even funny. Just shiny charizard but blue, if they wanted a dragon zard they could've done more. Wasted potential.

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>>31537988
Why dont you like it?

>>31538026
>they could've done more
Any ideas? How do you make a dragon more dragon-like?

>>31538032
more developed wings, like bigger and with more detail or some kind of texture, make the tail more slender (although maybe it wouldn't reflect the speed too well), and the flames in the mouth look awful on the model.

Maybe increase the size of its arms to match that of its legs, and also the excessive amount of spikes.

>>31538054
So basically Zard Y, with a few minor differences?

>>31538054
>more detail or some kind of texture
>increase the size of its arms to match that of its legs
As a Zardfag, I'm couldn't be more glad that they didn't do that. That would completely ruin the charm fo Zard and make it more like Dragonite. Fuck Dragonite's arms. No one wants those.

>>31538031
>Edgy design that panders to autists
>Dragon type for more pandering
>Overpowered
>Even more pandering when it and MEWTWO are the only mons to get two Megas
I am not that anon, and genwun is my favorite gen, but it's not hard to see why. ZardX is a piece of shit that should have never existed.

>>31537976
It works better than Bank does.

>>31538068
Charizard Y looks more like a dragon, yeah. if X and Y changed color paletes and typings they would work better.

>>31538054
>more developed wings, like bigger
Did you forget that Zard X loses the flying typing?

>>31538080
>>Overpowered
its good
but not broken

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>>31537976
It makes autists like >>31537988 mad.

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I will never understand what /vp/ has against ZardX. It's considered the worst design ever for simply being more Gothic in nature. Edgy doesn't necessarily equal bad, anon. All the colors and features added to it aren't out of place. They compliment each other and look nice.
Not that I expect anyone here to agree, but at least that's what I think.

>>31538093
I meant it in the sense of looking imposing, as it stands, X looks doofy and dumb, and I'm aware that not all dragons look or have to look imposing, we have things like A-exeggutor, but charizard is a pokemon that is supposed to look imposing, unlike the former.

>>31538031
Charizard X is an obvious afterthought to pander to the autistic western kids.

You can tell that they intended Y to be the one and true Mega Charizard - its design philosophy is the same as the other Kanto starters.

>>31538080
>Edgy design
>Dragon-type
>Overpowered
Those aren't even legitimate complains, rather things that just you don't like for some weird reason.

>>31538118
Personally, I don't consider Charizard to be that imposing. It is a bright orange Dragon. It looks like something in between imposing and nice.

>>31538098
>130/130/100 offenses
>Backed up by not too shabby 78/111/85 defenses
>Fantastic typing
>Massive movepool
>One if not the best set up sweeper in the game
>One turn to guess whether it's X or Y and act accordingly
>If it gets a DD it's pretty much GG
>Tough Claws to top it off
>No direct counters

>Not OP
Sure kid

>>31538140
well, I guess that becomes something subjective, but when I look at charizard it seems like GF intended for it to be badass, like they tried with the other starters.

Its all subjective anyways, nobody can say charizard is 100% anything design-wise for everybody.

>>31538126
Its pandering to western kids isnt a valid complaint. Pokemon has too as it needs sells in the west but it always first and foremost a Japanese kids game. They like dragons as much as kids do over here. Where toothless is seen as an appropriate design. For a black and blue dragon its ok.
Megas were a mistake. Charizard y is a completely different pokemon than zard x.

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>>31538142
>I've beat it with Mega-Aerodactyl every time.

Yeah I guess.

>mfw flinch-spamming derpizard to death

>Not OP
that's right its not. just because you're shit at the game and got 6-0 by zard x is any reason to complain that its "op"

>>31538142
If you cant seriously beat charizard X you're not doing teambuilding well.

>>31538193
>>31538197
See it's not OP because I LIKE IT and you CAN defeat it! You surely got 6-0!
Right, and then you complain about Lando-T or Lele. The fact that you can kill it doesn't mean it's not overpowered.
>Swinub used Powder Snow! Mega Rayquaza fainted!

>>31538278
but its not over powered

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>>31538278
That's not what I meant, I dont like any of those including zard x.

Zard X is good, very good, good enough to require you to carry some sort of tool to specifically take him out, but there's many. scarf chomp can OHKO with Dragon claw, lando-T can shut it down and force a switch immediatly, and unaware walls are always a good option.

Zard can be taken care of if you're not braindead, its not OP. Something like M-salamence requires the entire team to be focused around beating it, that is overpowered.

>>31538314
Of course it can be taken care of, that's every single pokemon there is.
ZardX IS overpowered, then again, everything in OU is. Broken would be when it literally breaks the game to the point you have to build an entire team to counter it, like you mentioned with Megamence.

>>31538331
What? Overpowered means broken, they're the same thing, its just a way of saying the item is question is too good for the game itself and causes a disbalance centered around it.

What do you mean by OP?

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>This thread

>>31538356
>Overpowered means broken

No. Overpowered is something that has too much power or more than it needs

Broken is something that makes every other option inviable. Essentially, it's the next step in OPness.

>>31538409
Okay, mind explaining what do you mean by "more power than it needs"?

>>31538409
what is "too much power" if not enough to make other options unviable? having enough power to be the best option, while still allowing other options to serve niches isn't "too much power". By that logic everything that isn't bad or on the lower spectrum of strength is OP.

And what is "more than it needs"? do some pokemon not deserve to be good?

>>31538435
It's absurd it has that much defense or special attack, when it's neither a defensive or special-based Mega

>>31538449
How would you distribute the 100 stats it gains from Mega Evolution, then? They're going to go somewhere. GF took extra step and wasted some stat points on Special Attack, instead of giving it the Speed it needs to prevent it from being overpowered.

>>31538464
Also allows for blast burn to be used

>>31537976
Charizard X is ugly.

>>31538488
No one uses Blast Burn. Not even kids. Imagine what it could've been had they raised the Attack to 150, or give it 120 Speed. That would've been broken. As it is, it's just strong. It's not shit. Stopping it isn't hard.

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>>31538501
You're ugly.

>>31538464
I simply wouldn't. The +100 rule should have never existed. GF should understand that +100 simply isn't enough to make certain mons OK, while it's obviously more than enough to bust others. Personally, I would have taken each mon and increase their BSTs accordingly.

>>31538356
Overpowered and broken are not the same thing you retard.

>>31538533
how about instead of throwing an insult you explain why they aren't? they mean the same

>>31538539
>>31538409

>>31538542
>>31538439

>>31538516
Autistic Charizardfags like you need to kill yourself. Go sperg out on some youtube video or something.

>>31538539
I shouldn't have to explain why they aren't. You should be smart enough to fucking know.

>>31538545
>I shouldn't have to explain why they aren't.
>I don't need to make a valid argument, I can just insult you and that means I'm right!

>>31538544
>I can just quote a different person on an issue that has already been explained and that means I'm right!
Wow the double morals are strong here

>>31538578
that is me, anon.

>>31538594
Apologies.

>>31538539
How could you not understand the difference between the two? The words are self-explanatory.
Overpowered is something with more power than average. It's better than others. It's stronger than others, with the same or less drawbacks.
Broken is something that breaks. Nothing can match it under normal circumstances. It's pretty much guaranteed to win.

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>>31538504
>no one uses Blast Burn

>>31538620
>Overpowered is something with more power than average. It's better than others. It's stronger than others, with the same or less drawbacks.
no, it doesn't mean that, that is just being better than average.

it means something with either more power than needed (not the case with pokemon) or possessing too much power, and "too much power" can't just be "being the best option" it has to be something noticeably good, so good that not using it puts you in a direct disadvantage, like protean greninja last gen.

>>31538650
Holy shit you're retarded. Protean Greninja was BROKEN. Not simply overpowered, broken. Charizard is overpowered.

>>31538666
Just calling me retarded and saying I got it backwards with nothing else doesn't mean anything anon. Tell me WHY is greninja broken and not OP, he was "too good" for the meta, so he WAS OP, and broken, because it's the same.

What is "too good" for you if zard X is OP?

>>31538701
>OP and broken is the same
Again, like it had been said a million times already, this simply isn't true. Stop being a stuck up bitch.

>>31538718
and again, like I've said about 10 times, tell me why. I'm open to listening to you, tell me what makes something too good for a game but not god enough to be broken and I'll admit you're right and move on. I just don't see it.

>>31538728
>>31538620
>>31538409
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=overpowered&amp=true&defid=194554
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=broken&amp=true&defid=103983
What else do you fucking want?

>>31538126
>its design philosophy is the same as the other Kanto starters.

???

>>31538754
OP
>1. Smtn. that obtained more power than needed
>2. Smtn. possessing too much power

Broken
> A game object or facility that is too good to exist. It is so powerful that it is unbalancing and hence breaks the game. Every winning player has to use this to be competitive.

Both mean "too good for the game", but then what makes something go from OP to broken? how can you be too good to be too good? How is something as easy to deal with as charizard OP? does this mean anything on the upper scale of power, regardless of the balance placed onto it, is OP by default? by that logic top UU threats are OP, is that true? but then these threats are almost pointless in OU, making them not OP, so being OP is a relative term, so what are we basing charizard's OPness? on Ubers? on lower OU? on PU? if Mega fug is as good as it is, does it mean that nothing as good as it is broken? is everything below Fug just OP? then greninja isn't broken, just OP, unless you're saying being broken can be relative too, but then both terms are relative regarding the capacity of something being able to outclass everything else, so they ARE the same. So then, answer me

what makes something too good to be considered OP? That's what I fucking want, that was my original question, and one you haven't answered, one those two posts didn't answer, and one that urban dictionary, the most reliable source ever, didn't answer either.

>>31538825
How many times do we have to repeat until you get it? Overpowered is what's stronger than average. If all Pokemon had 600 BST, and one came out with 650, that would be overpowered. It's not broken, because it can still be stopped relatively easily, but it's something that will give you an edge just by being in your team.

>>31538863
why is more power than average considered too much power?

and going by that logic, and the current state of OU, charizard is definitely not OP.

>>31538878
>Why is too much power considered too much power
Do I really have to answer that?

And yes. It's not OP. It's strong, but definitely not OP. It is OP by UU standards. In OU? Not even close.

>>31537988

>muh genwun boogeyman!

>>31538909
above average isn't too much, because then you're saying around half of all pokemon are OP since they're above average. Mandibuzz isn't OP, but its good, better than average walls, same thing with serperior regarding sweepers.

and good, the whole point of the discussion was that charizard wasn't OP, at least originally.

>>31538941
There are Pokemon more OP than Mandibuzz, but by average standards, it's OP. Put it against an average wall, and it will have a good advantage.

>>31538086
So I'm not the only one who thought they got X and Y mixed up, X looks like a special attacker with the Azula blue fire everywhere while Y looks like a faster, stronger version.

>>31538728
>I'm open to listening to you

You're about as open as your mums legs.

>>31538971
so that's how it is then. I guess I'm just dumb then. I thought being OP was harder than that, or that it was actually some sort of level of power that made it completely superior, not just being better.

I'm sorry for wasting your time.

>>31538998
funny, very funny.

>>31538191
+1 Thunder Punch kills even meme 248 HP mega Aerodactyl sets.
If standard max Attack/Speed, +1 Dragon Claw has an 80% chance of killing outright.
Aerodactyl is a check, not a counter.

>>31538142
you can beat xard at +4 comfortably if youre nof dogshit

>>31539212
if you let it get to +4 you deserve to lose

>>31539212
Impostor Ditto or Focus Sash are the only possible stops to that.

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>>31539239
>Rockruff used accelerock!

>>31538080
fucking autist

>>31540301
t. Retarded charizardfag

retard

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>>31537976
It made physical Charizard viable. Plus Charizard has always been my favorite starter so it getting two megas was really neat.

>One of the best mons competetivley
>Based design
>Used by Based Red and Based Alain
>Caused the great day of shitposting on August 18th
>League winner

He's all around based

Would hug and snug

>>31538796
>same colour as the original form
>same typing as the original form
>improves their stats to keep their original role
>abilities that complements their original role

>>31540897
What happened on August 18th?

>>31540911
Greninja got fucked by Alain's Charizard and most people raged

>>31538972
>while Y looks like a faster, stronger version.
What are you talking about?
Y looks physically weaker than the other Charizards especially around the arms

>>31539267
0 Atk Lycanroc-Midday Accelerock vs. 248 HP / 100+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 74-90 (20.6 - 25%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO