EVEN MORE UU STUFF BANNED

>>31453989
RIP Terrakion

SERPERIOR NOOOOOO

Well I'm off to ou everyone

>>31453989

Fuck, I was using Gyarados on my team

Still though, I can see why it got banned, Z-Bounce

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>Bisharp will never be BL

> first Salamence now Gyarados
Flynium-Z taking its victims

>>31453989
They literally explain right there half the bans are because of previous bans.

This is hilarious.

>>31453989
>Terrak got kicked out of UU before Keld.
What

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Will he finally have a home this gen?

>>31454032
>diggersby got kicked out before azumarill

DIGGERSBY

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>>31453989
MY GIRL
Y

G
I
R
L

>>31454028

Literally only for Serperior

>The previous rounds of bans, which included Mega Charizard Y, Kyurem-B, Tornadus-T, Weavile, Scolipede, and Volcarona, gave Serperior tons of breathing room in UU. It now only really needs 2 attacking moves - Leaf Storm and Hidden Power Fire - to cover the majority of the tier, and can use its remaining move slots however it wants - Taunt, Synthesis, Substitute, Leech Seed, Glare, Dragon Pulse, or even Z-Hyper Beam.

>Mega Charizard Y, Kyurem-B, Tornadus-T, Weavile, Scolipede, and Volcarona

AKA shit that had no business being in UU in the first place

>>31454032
Azumarill n shit. Keldeo isn't nearly as good as it used to be

>The following Pokemon were nominated: Azumarill, Breloom, Gyarados, Keldeo, Porygon-Z, Serperior, Terrakion, Victini, Volcanion. Drizzle was also nominated.

>Of these, the following Pokemon have been banned: Gyarados, Porygon-Z, Serperior, and Terrakion.

How the hell did Keldeo avoid the banhammer

>>31454047
Bans causing Bans just shows the retards know nothing.

>>31454066
Like how banning Lele would cause them to ban Lando or Greninja :^)

>>31454066
They were banning shit that had no business there in the first place. And then that made it so that the shit that also had no reason to be there was dominate again. Makes sense.
>>31454082
How would banning Lele result in Lando getting banned? I already know how Lele is holding back Gren, but Lando?

>>31454060
Primarina

>>31454060
Keldeo has a narrower movepool, but it might be banned if rain teams become more common, assuming they don't ban Drizzle.

>>31454027
you're forgetting dragonite too

Wow. They actually got rid of Porygon-Z. Time to start rebuilding teams.

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Will it be going to BL next?

>>31454267
With serperior not there you can guarantee

I'm gonna miss porygon. Felt like ubers before the primals, where its all about setting up your nigh-invincible Xerneas ansd carefully removing its checks, but wth a cyborg duck instead of a deer, that was fun. I like overpowered setup sweepers.

>>31454041
na

>>31454060
Keldeo is easy to wall by bulky water even when carrying shit like HP Grass or HP Electric. It says a lot about Keldeo when you need to consider that kind of awful Hidden Powers just to pick apart an exclusive counter.

Why would anyone want to play Smogon. Fuck they ban shit all the time.

>>31454380
That's why Smogon is played. No one wants to play with the truly dumb shit.

>>31454380
Without bans the entire tier system wouldn't work, retard.

>>31454380
because fuck your VGC meta with only 30 viable pokemon out of 800, at least Smogon lets even the most mediocre shit shine on PU, NU and even the non-evolved guys get to shine on Little Cup. Call me when Gamefreak has that kind of support for the small guy

>>31454060
>How the hell did Keldeo avoid the banhammer

latias, primarina, tentacruel, volcanion, amoonguss, azumarill, starmie, etc. discounting a bunch of shit that was banned that could handle it too.

>>31453989
>Serperior out of UU.
>Into BL
Don't let it stay in BL hell.

If UU is bootleg Gen VI OU, why are they banning so many things?

>>31454066
>shows the retards know nothing
How so? What other option do they have to take? OU dropped literally some of the best offensive pokemon of last gen and all their good checks are still locked in OU. There's no other choice but hope OU stops being retarded and take back all this stuff that's still amazing.

How long before BL is big enough to be a real tier?

>>31454515
Because they're fags who hate offense. Next thing you know Alola Ninetails will get banned too because the screens let things set up too easily.

>>31454515
Because it isn't really. This shit just dropped by usage, almost all of the mons being banned are usable in OU.

>>31454542
The problem with these and some things still left in the tier is that the only answers for them are not allowed in UU. Offense is fine but things like Terrakion, which punch holes in every team with very few ways to answer back are just too strong for the tier.

>>31454487
BL wouldn't be limbo for Serp because it's actually good in OU.

>>31454530
About a year, give or take some months. They'll give it a dumb name like VU "Very Used" or something.

So they really want UU to become Gen6 UU again, huh?

>>31454380

because if your favorite Pokemon are not very good, they can be usable in the proper tier.

My favorite Pokemon are Vileplume and Relicanth. I can have fun in NU. VGC with all the Tapus and online battling on the 3DS arent good options.

>>31454530
I would say about 40 more Pokémon.

>>31454562
Sometimes Used
Kinda Used
Might be Used

>>31454588
DecentlyUsed. DU would be the finest tier, and Staraptor will finally have a home.

>>31454601
dont forget good old SU, scarcely used

>>31454562
CU. Commonly Used

>>31454530
Never. If a new tier is made it'll be FU.

>>31454618
I feel like that would be the tier between RU and NU though.

>>31454571
If you've played UU you'd agree. Nearly everything in BL was an offensive powerhouse whose good checks are all in OU. Most of them are here because the ladder is retarded anyway, it's ridiculous stuff like Y-zard, Volcarona, Salamence, and Weavile are all UU when there's garbage like Xurkitree currently in OU.

>>31454530
>>31454647
You can't place a tier inbetween two existing ones anyway.

>>31454647
This needs to be a thing below PU, for mons like Sunflora and Delibird.

>>31454672
We'd need an additional two or three tiers below PU for stuff like Delibird to be useful, it's literally worse than most NFE pokemon.

it should go like this

>anything goes
>ubers
>overused
>underused
>rarelyused
>barelyused
>neverused
>pu, these guys stink
>fuck u for actually using pokemon this shitty

>>31454672
They experimented with the idea of FU last gen but irc there weren't enough players. That might change this gen though.

>>31454700
Ledian would still struggle in FU.

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2016-12/pu-1630.txt

FU cutoff would be at Torkoal. There's still plenty of not-complete-shit pokemon below PU.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pu-viability-rankings.3528743/

Their "not viable" rank is still rather large, most of the stuff in it would probably still be trash in a theoretical tier below PU, and probably even a tier below that one.

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Soon

Anything Goes
Ubers
OverUsed
Commonly Used
UnderUsed
Rarely Used
Barely Used
Never Used
PU
FU
Hell
Ninth Circle

Is this enough tiers for everything to be viable?

>>31454939
not enough.
delibird and ledian would still be trash in those.

>>31454528
Stop Balancing OU on usage?

S: Ubers
A: OU
B: New tier due to power creep and Ultratapu cancer
C: UU
D: RU
E: NU
F: PU

>>31454939
You can't just stick a tier between two existing tiers. It would mess everything up.

Calling it now, the final bans with be Staraptor, Keldeo, and Azumarill.

All three of them lost their checks, the latter two in particular. Raptor lost a good BB check in Terrakion, and is basically Diggersby-lite.

>>31454659
>You can't place a tier inbetween two existing ones anyway.
>what is RU

>>31454975
>WAAAHHHH YOU CAN'T DO THAT MOMMY WILL GET MAD
Look at this baby, look at him and laugh
It's okay for Gamefreak to put in minmaxed Pokemon and kick shit out of OU though isn't it

Can't BL be a tier of its own like it was in Gen3 ?

>>31454975
You don't literally stick a new tier between tiers. You just add stuff to the bottom and rename the higher tiers into they would be now.

>>31454973
B would literally be UU because of how tiers are defined, and then all the stuff that makes that tier shitty and unfun would be banned, and then we'd be right back where we started.

You can't make a tier out of a banlist. It just doesn't work that way.

>>31454969
there would be way more complaints and bitching if tiers were decided by "the council" rather than on usage

>>31454987
and then amoonguss moves up to ou in feb and everyone realises breloom is broken. real talk.

mini-ubers tier when?

I haven't touched competitive since last gen. What's it like? Has power creep reached full retard levels? Keldeo being UU blows my mind, I know it happens every gen but still.

>>31455086
ou is shit this gen, don't pay it any attention. uu is looking like it will be decent once it's cleaned up.

Why not just make BL into UU and move everything else down a tier?

>>31455086
Oh yeah, there's been a power creep for sure. Fortunately, most of the problem-makers have been kicked up to BL. It should be stable once these three are gone>>31454987

>>31455114
because 14 pokemon don't make a tier. and if you start adding other pokemon from uu into the tier, then it's just turning into uu but before any bans.

>>31455114
That would be logical, although the exact schematics of it might be tedious. Within the next few weeks, BL will have enough contenders to be a tier, now to mention the low hanging OU contenders like Ttar, Mamo, and Tangrowth that are in a dropping race

>>31455086
OU is literally filled with legendaries, tapus, ubs and honourable mentions to the pseudos tyranitar, garchomp and mega metagross

>>31455137
True, but as >>31455145 points out, with the lower-OU mons like Clefable and Ttar, BL could be a solid tier. Not to mention UU is still going to get more purges. Keldeo and Azumarill in particular are glaring

>>31455145
>Within the next few weeks, BL will have enough contenders to be a tier

no it won't. tiers have around 50 pokemon. do you actually think they are going to ban around 36 more pokemon from uu over the generation, nevermind the next few weeks?

>>31455086
OU is a joke, stay out of it. Play RU or UU for a good time.

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>>31455115
>Staraptor will never not be BL

>>31454939
FU and Hell would remove 110 to 120 pokemon from competing with the really trash pokemon.

PU currently has 121 ranked as viable, and 66 of those are in PU already, the other half would theoretically be taken by FU, leaving the lower two tiers with everything on the not viable list. However, the not viable list doesn't include a sizeable number of NFE pokemon that could potentially dominate Hell and Ninth Circle.

Although, considering each tier has roughly 60 pokemon, and there would be ten tiers above Ninth Circle containing roughly 600 pokemon, and that a majority of the remaining pokemon are Little Cup pokemon, I guess I could see things like Delibird being viable there... wait actually, it'll probably die like a bitch to Growlithe or some shit.

I think the problem with trying to create a tier for all FE pokemon is that eventually the really bad ones will just get swamped with LC pokemon that are literally better than them, and then you just have a twisted version of Little Cup.

>>31454862
>that PU viability ranking
It's amazing how many fully evolved mons exist below C rank or are unranked. They could easily fill a whole new tier with that. And that's ignoring gen VII shitmons and second stage NFE mons.
It'seems pretty weird since as a regular Random Battle player I use these pokémons all the time.

Why dont they narrow each tier to 40 mons, that way all fully evolved mons and broken NFEs (like combusken and sneasel) can be viable?

>>31455241
they narrow the tiers down to seeing the pokemon once in at least 20 games in the specific tier, which ends up as 3.4% usage. they don't limit tiers to a set number, that's why you have things like oras uu which have 60+ mons iirc, yet oras ou has only ~50. it's all usage based.

>>31454320
lets be completely honest here, porygon-z was completely out of control in UU

heck I wouldn't be surprised if he'll spend the next metagame flirting with OU occasionally dipping in and out

>>31455086
Yep, we're in full retard power-creep modo
OU is almost entirely legendaries, megas, and UBs
I, and I tthink at least a few others, think it's enough to have a new tier between either UU/OU or OU/Ubers

>>31455323
good job you're not in charge then, because all you would be accomplishing is renaming ou/uu. literally nothing would change.

>>31453989
Porygon-Z? Fuck.

Wait, isn't Porygon2 just as powerful with Z-conversion, since its tankier?

>>31455358
it's bulkier but it's also 30 base speed lower, so it doesn't outspeed anywhere near as much at +1 as p-z did. you can try it out though.

>create tier between OU and UU named CU
>tier is made of BL mons and formerly UU mons
>BL mons are too strong and get banned
>only UU mons are left
>CU becomes an UU 2.0

>>31455358
>>31455375
oh and it also doesn't have adaptability and 135 sp.atk. outside of memeing i'm not sure i'd bother.

>>31455387
yep. exactly my point. the anons suggesting this think they're onto something with the idea, but they really aren't.

>>31455358
the problem with Z compared to 2 is that even after conversion 2 has a decent number of switchins while Z significantly less so

add onto this you have absolutely no idea of knowing what type its going to be after the conversion and a single wrong choice means half your team is now gone

can't even reliably wall it because it has psyshock so a psychic type P-Z could hit on both ends of the spectrum like a truck (thanks to adaptability running psychic and psyshock is semi-viable)

Is Kyruem-B with Z-Freeze Shock any good? I've been running mixed on all of mine but I'm considering restarted Black 2 for an Adamant one.

>>31453989
>Gyarados was banned for its Z-Dragon Dance set, which is extremely effective and difficult to stop in UU. Gyarados finds plenty of opportunities to set up due to its excellent offensive typing and the ease with which Stealth Rock can be kept off of its side of the field. From there, it can use Supersonic Skytrike to pick up an almost guaranteed kill,
Did I just get pranked? He got banned and their justification is lol 2 z moves?

>>31455388
It gets download though, which is almost better. If it gets a special attack boost, Z-conversion will put it at +2 SpA.

>>31455526
You misunderstand. They use regular Dragon dance combined with z fly.

>>31455526

They're talking about Supersonic Skystrike with Bounce as the base move

Z-Fly also got Dragonite and Salamence banned

>my old UU team had Tangrowth and Pory-Z as my star users
>Tangrowth got banned to OU
>Pory-Z got banned to BL hell

o-okay ;___;

>favorite pokemon include Pory-z and staraptor
Well, at least I can use them on a really shitty OU team... ;n;
Having to fill my team with legendaries to compete using all my favorites is why I prefer autistic breeding to competitive

>>31455575
>>31455591
Oh it makes perfect sense now, excuse my retardation.

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>>31455063
Isn't that OU?

JUST SPLIT OU/UU INTO 3 TIERS DAMNIT THIS IS GETTING RIDICULOUS

>>31455595
Just play OU.

>>31455558
it's still weaker at +2 and without adaptability because p-z has 135 sp.atk compared to 105. and it's not a guaranteed boost like adaptability. so you're using something much slower and also weaker in exchange for a bit more bulk. and you're giving up using eviolite porygon2 which is a pretty sturdy pokemon. it's just not worth it.

+1 252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 158-188 (90.2 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 SpA Porygon2 Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 133-157 (76 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>>31455575
>>31455591
Wait, so it got banned for its single Z move being too strong?

>>31455837
Flying STAB is crazy. Getting a functional Flying attack pushes a lot of things from "Okay I guess" to "HOW THE FUCK DO I WALL THIS MONSTER"

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>>31454862
M-maybe my bro will finally be good there.

>>31453989

BAN

EVERYTHING!

I don't know why they're even trying. SM UU is just Gen 6 OU 2.0. Stop trying to change it into something it's not.

>>31455867
Oh, I guess I see your point. But the fact that ZBounce/fly is one time use should count for something

Also how is Talonflame doing in UU?

>>31455909
T-Flame is kill. It's a shitmon now.

>>31455904
How to spot someone who does not understand tiers.

>>31455909
The thing is that the Fly Z Move gets rid of anything that their normal cover doesn't normally get rid of. Not much survives a Supersonic Skystrike, and not much survives the rest of their coverage after a Moxie boost. And Talon is doing fine as a Defensive Pivot in RU

>>31455867
do wish gyarados got himself a true flying STAB

same with dragonite

or heck maybe even something like having fly skip its chargeup turn during tail wind (same with bounce and sky attack)

>>31455945

I do understand tiers dummy, but at thist point BL is just gonna be really fucking huge because they want UU to be "UU" instead of just letting power creep do its thing.

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>>31455945
>Defensive Pivot in RU
HOLY KEK, it got fucked that hard? I for sure thought it would carve an offensive presence in UU with Roost and Acrobatics/BB,

>>31455967
I'm sure BL will crack 20 this gen. That being said most tiers have 40-50 mons at the least, so BL as of now doesn't seem to warrant its own tier. Maybe it will by gen 9 :^)

>>31455971
didn't it get fucked so hard flame body has serious merits?

>>31455967
Most mons in BL are completely viable in OU. The only reason BL is so huge is because this is the first time the original tiers are based off usage completely.

>>31455985
Does it though? Without GW, its just a faster but shittier Zard

>>31455983

If we're already quick banning this many pokemon in such a short amount of time, hint: it's not gonna get better when the next games come out with new tutors, possible new forms, and whatever shenanigans gamefreak will do to fuck up singles more than it already is.

>>31455994
even with GW its a faster, shittier zard

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>>31455994
>T-Flame is being compared to regular Zard, the legendary shitmon starter, and Zard looks better
>T-Flame is now the weakest bird
This is truly the darkest timeline, god I hate GF
>>31455998
Honestly, they only really dropped because usage. Pretty much everything that got dropped and banned is at least semi-functional in OU and dominant in UU, except Terrak.

>>31455998
I wonder how the game will change when the remaining Megas get released. MegaMan, MegaDiancie, MegaLop, and MegaTaria were all solid OU last gen, while MegaBee and MegaCham both benefitted from the speed mechanics. Not to mention most of these fucks will drop down

It's possible that BL will crack 20 before tutors and whatnot come next if Megas are released soon.

Why don't they just make OU bigger?

>>31456061
BL is a part of OU.

>>31456061
BL is OU.

>>31456038
nah, its still not noctowl

>>31456061

Because the cut off point is that a pokemon's usage has to be 3.41% or over in the OU tier to be considered OverUsed.

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Is it really that hard to just make OU bigger?

>>31456096
Yes. Not that it matters because they're functionally in OU now anyway.

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>>31456096
being BL is the exact same as being OU though.

>>31456061

The idea of the 3.41% cutoff is that you have a 50% chance of seeing a Pokemon at least once every 20 battles. Hence why the tier is called OverUsed.

If it's too good for UU, but doesn't get enough usage to be OU, it goes into BL.

>>31456096
Yeah let's bring down the Deoxys brothers again and Darkrai got nerfed so why not bring that down too

>>31456038
>Honestly, they only really dropped because usage.
Well, uh, isn't that what a usage-based tier system is supposed to be doing?

>>31456061
>>31456096
Are you really this stupid? Do you not understand how the tiering system works?

>>31454515
Because the staples are still in OU?
>>31454530
Well its a banlist so basically all that will depend on when the pokes placed into it truly have no niche in OU and BL is the only place to play them, ala ubers. After that its up to the community to want it but people wanted a FU tier so it could probably

>>31454987
>Staraptor
Depends on how the tier goes. If they try to shape it towards balance he's gone. if towards bulky offense which these bans show he might stay.
Keldeo,
not too many checks but alot of counters in the tier.
Azumarill
Z belly drum is the only dangerous set but it will be close for sure.

Breloom should probably go tho..

Just make + tiers, UU+ is UU+BL and so on, maybe if there is enough demand, there could be a OU+ with low end Ubers.

>>31454571
The thing is they can't though. If UU's last gen banning taught us anything it is that balance is dead because OU takes the non flawed walls. UU no matter how hard it tries can't ban a thousand things for a dead playstyle. These bans are simply getting rid of things that shit on both offense and stall

I wish Showdown would allow us to use all the megastones so we can see where everything ends up. I'm sure MegaMan and MAltaria would be UU/BL, while MegaDrill goes to OU

>>31454047
>We banned 6 other Pokemon that helped to hold Serperior in check, so subsequently Serperior now has no checks. So we're banning it, too.

I feel like since Gen 4 they have just refused to acknowledge the power creep. Their whole idea of "too strong" - whether its too strong for OU or UU - is mired in an outdated idea of what each tier should look like. When your first wave of banning just makes the shit below it broken then yeah, you've fucked up.

>>31454380
Bans are entirely why you play Smogon. It's a constantly evolving metagame meant to make shit as balanced as possible.

>>31456337
I really just want to use a fucking Mega Camerupt on my team, damn it. I'm tired of Magmortar.

>>31456352
le slippery slope

>>31454939
final tier would be Watchog by its self

>>31455209
>Hell is a twisted Little Cup
Makes sense, sort of.

>>31456624
>yfw LC leaders allow Delibird, Ledian, etc. just for giggles
>yfw they keep it because no one uses them anyway

>>31456624
desu I'd love a twisted LC. LC is fun as fuck but those rolls on multi hit moves make me salty sometimes.

>>31454862
>regice
>articuno
ha
ha ha ha

but really, why is ice such a shit type. why does some shit deserves to hit a bunch of stuff SE but only has 1~2 weaknesses and then ice gets shafted by literally everything.

>>31456352
>When your first wave of banning just makes the shit below it broken then yeah, you've fucked up.
When the alternative is losing at team preview just because you can't account for the dozens of broken threats in the tier, what choice do they have?

The aim is to create a competitive tier. That's not possible when it's borderline impossible to make a team that can account for all of the top ten pokemon simultaneously, let alone all the regular stuff that make sense in the tier.

>>31454647
What does FU stand for? Or is it nothing like with PU?

>>31456752
Forgot to Use

>lele and battle bond STILL not in ubers

Honestly what the fuck is taking so long? These fucks are on like every team

>>31456752
i assume it's a joke on fuck you, in my head PU means practically unplayable.

>>31456789
Lele is next, along with Arena Trap, I think.
Then Gren.

>>31456802
>arena trap
god forbid dugtrio is anything but a shitmon

>>31456789
Lele's gonna go soon I imagine

Might take a while for Jobfrog to get the boot though

>>31456813
>this is about Duggy
This is about Stall and Trapping. No one cried when Goth died, no one will cry when Duggy dies.

>>31454380

Bans are the whole fucking point you retard. If your pokemon are shitters who can't stand up to OU pokes, then you can play at an appropriate tier. Otherwise you get VGC meta where you see the same Pokemon every game, and there are no tiers to differentiate.

>>31456813
It makes stall way too good right now, it traps and kills basically every common stallbreaker.

>>31456813
If you've ever played against Duggy stall you wouldn't be complaining.

>>31455213
>Get DELELELE-WOOOOOP once
>Aw fuck this worthles shit
>Vs a fucking Entei
>Manage to KO it with an endeavor setup
I mean it still sucks but I'm sure the Entei user was surprised as fuck.

>>31455213
It's amazing how many PUmons are Gen 3.

>>31454973
The new tier should go between OU and Ubers, since there's so much shit sitting right between them this gen. Then the BL mons would be able to move back to OU.

>>31456853
>>31456863
Dugtrio's had arena trap since ruby/sapphire. Why would it be ubers now?

>>31457025
Because it matters more. Eevee has had Baton Pass since Crystal, and it wasn't until Gen VI it mattered.

>>31455867
This is why Aerilate, Gale Wings and Fug are OP in Gen VI.

I dont understand why everyone is pushing for a new tier. I get the reasoning behind it, but in practice it just doesn't work.

Every tier has around 5 mons. If we were to make UU 2.0 or OU 2.0, then those tiers would consist of around 30 mons each, and would fuck up the usage-based system we have right now

>>31457025
+20 attack so now it actually kills things rather than only just failing to do so.

>>31457119
You wouldn't split OU or UU in half. You'd pool OU, UU, and Ubers then divide them into four tiers instead of three. Then they'd average around 40 Pokemon each.

>>31456752
>>31456764
>>31456791
I always though it was "Fucking Useless"; isn't PU "Practically Useless"?

>>31456791
>>31457519
I always thought it was "PU" as a stupid pun, as in these mons stink

>Still no Azumarill
This fucking council holy shit,

>>31453989
WHAT THE FUCK
SERPERIOR
PORYGON-Z
THIS IS BULLSHIT
DONT MAKE ME PLAY WITH TAPUS AND UBS

>>31453989
>The previous rounds of bans, which included Mega Charizard Y, Kyurem-B, Tornadus-T, Weavile, Scolipede, and Volcarona, gave Serperior tons of breathing room in UU.
So if they had never banned those guys, serperior would've been fine.

this is the only reason I'm against bans, because it leads to this snowball effect. I'm aware some pokemon are too good for their own good, but when the only reason a pokemon is good is because you've done away with all their counters by your own hand, you can see you fucked up. I'm fine with dragonite and mence being banned, but this sets up a precedent, as if UU wants t stay the same way it was pre-gen 7, even if it has to send 40 pokemon to BL.

>>31457641
All these offensive things are getting banned because the walls that kept them at bay, stayed in OU

>>31457641
It's not about keeping UU the way it was pre gen 7. It's that because of the usage stats, there's going to be less accurate tiers for a bit. Things like Kyurem B and Zard Y were absolutely dominating. Torn T had zero business being in UU in the first place, and it was overpowering the entire tier.

>>31457641
It probably won't be the same either way. Some things lost their place in OU like Scizor or Azumarill and aren't good enough to be broken in UU. That said, I fully expect Scizor to be the mon people slap on every team in UU now.

>>31454060
Victini is next. It's move pool is great and its too strong.

the tiers are based on percentages. i think it's currently anything at or above ~~3.4%.

so If they'd just adjust that down a smidge. maybe 3.0%, then more pokemon could stick to the tiers they should be in rather than getting dumped to the next lowest tier, and then getting instabanned back into these purgatory BL's.

no need for a new tier, just widen the existing ones

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>>31453989
>They're all offense

I'm shocked! (I'm not)

>>31455213
We must go as deep as possible until we have a tier for every fully evolved mon.

>>31457765
how many tiers would you need to make to make ledian viable?

>>31457779
Even in a tier consisting of only Delibird and Ledian, Ledian would still be garbo. Ledian's design is so sick tho I wish it was good

>>31453989
But smogon will declare BL a separate tier when they hit 30 mons.
Am I right guys?
Guys?

why dont they just unban everything and accept that UU now has the power level OU used to, why does smogon care so much about keeping the same power level in UU from two gens ago

>Tapus and UBs ruining OU to nearly unplayable

Honestly, only a few of them are even balanced, and I fucking love my tapu and UBs, but I wouldn't miss them if they got ubered.

>>31457863
>>31457661

SMOGON, JUST SEND MOST OF OU TO UBERS. It'll make UU OU and bring the power back to a balance! HOLY SHIT SMOGON. DO YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR STALL META THIS MUCH???

>>31457933

Most of the higher ranking teams are stall, so yes, they do. Stall users are shit at the game anyway. If you need 4-6 crutches and 150 turns to win a game, you're trash.

>>31454443
There are wayyyyyyy more than 30 viable pokemon in the current VGC meta senpai, go watch some battles

>>31457933
I don't think banning the tapus will let you break 1200. And they are doing something about stall.

>>31454562
>>31454588
>>31454601
>>31454636
"Used"

>>31457779
They just need to buff him and change the typing.

>>31454046
>girl
>12,5%

>>31457760
>>31457933
t. 1100 user

>>31457970
>>31457933
>he doesn't actually go on Smogon
>he doesn't know they're trying to figure out how to fix stall right now
At least pretend to keep up with the times, Jesus.

>>31458143

Fix stall how? Its perfectly fine.

>>31458167
new pr thread has some people calling for a dugtrio/arena trap suspect

>>31458167
It really is, but trapping is a problem again. People are getting their designated wallbreaker scooped up by Duggy, and everyone is tired of trapping in general.
Expect Arena Trap to go with Lele on the suspect.

>People don't remember when drizzle politoed, tornadus and porygon-z were all legal in NU at the start last gen PO

>>31454046
this is a bad thing retard, serperior is going to get shitted on in OU

>>31454032

I'm also a fan of abbrev'ing my words

>>31458183
It's not even OU! It's BL. Too shit for OU, too good for UU! No one's going to use it!

>>31458207
right no one plays BL or below so good luck handling OU garbage like Tapus

>>31453989
So how much longer until BL becomes its own tier?

>team is perfect
>suddenly scarfchomp becomes huge
>literally the one big threat the team has and I keep fucking fighting it
>cant find a decent fastrocker that can dodge his EQ
>also find any replacements for the team so im stuck having to deal with playing around him every game

FUCK. Pre-bank is fucking my ass

>>31454380
If you don't want to play by Smogon rules you can still go get your ass raped by Megafug in AG.

>>31458228
Salamance? Wishiwashi?

>>31458243

Fast stealth rocker. I'm currently using nihilego, but my team is deadly weak to ground, especially scarfchomp.

>>31458183
>>31458207
>serp is bad.
There are people who believe Serp is non-functional in OU.

When will Middle Cup become official?

>>31458260
prior to gen 7 yeah he was fine in OU

gen 7 OU, at least at the moment, will completely shit down serperior's neck

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>>31454862

>D Rank
>banette

>>31458270
I wouldn't call B+ viability bad.

https://richi3f.github.io/pokemon-team-planner/#wishiwashi+salamence+salazzle+pangoro+tapu-lele+kartana

So is this team decent? I am new (have not played since ruby and never competitive) and have nothing in the pokebank.

>>31458284
I wouldn't call it good either. Face it. He's a B+ player. He'll never reach the top again.

So what we're saying is that we need one or two Pokemon that making running Z-Flying obsolete, while not getting fucked by the majority of the offensive movepool

What would it have to be?

Assuming all the mega stones are released, what current OU mon would drop as a result of the reintroduction? My money is on Ttar and Clef.

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>>31458320
>B+ player

YOU SEE SERPERIOR

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>>31458498

>mega diancie is released and reintroduced into OU
>ttar can't take all the fairies and drops to UU
>too good for UU and goes to BL with all the other losers

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>>31458498
Landorus gets its canine friend back with a vengeance.
>New turn 1 mega speed thing means it outfasts everything on turn 1
>Electric terrain everywhere once lele fucks off
>Shits on bulu and fini
>Doesn't mind their terrains

>>31458624
Based thunder doggo
So glad they fixed the Mega speed bullshit. Now if they only stopped with the "Megas cannot increase HP" meme...

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>>31458624
i cant wait for Manectric to be back favorite mega and my ace

>>31458624
God I can't wait for the thunder doggo of balance to return.

>finally think ive found a good replacement for nigilego for my lead rocker as def skarmory
>walls scarfchomp for days
>cant learn stealth rock pre-bank

FUCKING FUCK THIS FUCKING GAME

>>31458778
niheligo + sash maybe?

>>31458778
Why not just play on the pokebank ladder?

>>31458372
>fairy and flying rule the meta
It's like gen VI all over again

whats serps common set
leaf storm
Dragon Pulse
hidden power fire?
??

>>31456352
I like the complete lack of forward thinking.

They deemed Azumarill and Keldeo not that really troublesome at the same time you take away their main counter.

>>31458970
Glare, Giga Drain, Leech Seed

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>>31458624

I had completely forgotten than Megaman existed.

Ban all tapus, ban garchomp

there

fixed OU

Z-moves are a fucking travesty

>>31459240
Good idea, now it's just stall: the meta

>>31459092
Broken checking broken has never been an argument to keepp something in a tier.

If Azu and Keldeo become too good without the shit that just got banned to fight them they'll go too.

So are previous UU kings such as Suicune, Hydreigon, Arcanine, Sylveon, etc, seeing usage in SM UU or are they still stuck in RU?

>>31458930

I cant stand lando.

>>31458921

Thats what im currently running, but my team is very ground weak.

>>31459337
Wow. That's a new low. Great job there gamefreak. Arcanine deserves it though, unless it's controlled by the haxing AI.

>1v1
>5 pokes dead on both sides
>his scarf Hydro vs my A-Vest Magearna
>actually manage to live his focus blast with 2% HP
>fluer cannon MISSES causing me to lose

Usually i'm not upset, but that shit was fucking stupid. He also crit my Koku which left me with almost no answer for his Gyra. I wish for just once, i'd get lucky.

>sticky web is permanent

Who the fuck makes these broken moves up? Like, how the fuck is this is remotely balanced? If you lose your defoger, you literally lose the game instantly. Its impossible to play around.

>>31459518
It's balanced by having really shit distribution on really obvious mons. Galvantula doesn't really have much versatility, is frail and explodes after its sash gets broken, Shuckle is unbelievably weak to Taunt, so is Smeargle. The other users are so far beyond shitty it more than makes up for sticky web.

>>31459518
Because 99% of Sticky Web users are shitmons

>>31459518
>Its impossible to play around.
>What is boosting
>What is slow sweepers
>What are flying types
>What are defiant users
>What are contrary users
Git fucking good

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>>31458183
>X used Stealth Rock!
>Opponent withdrew Y!
>Opponent sent in Tapu Fini!
>X, come back!
>Go! Serperior!
>Tapu Fini used Defog!
>Serperior's evasion rose!
>Serperior used Substitute!

>>31457975
>way more than 30
what, 40, 50? out of fucking 800? you're a stupid fuck

>>31459642
What point are you making here? Some Pokemon are stronger than others?

>>31458970
>>31459106
Don't run Giga. Run some combination of Leaf Storm, D Pulse, HP coverage your team wants, Glare, and Sub.

>>31458228
If you're really desperate for a fast rocker that dodges EQ, Azelf is always an option. Why is Lando a bad option?

>>31453989
smogon being garbage as always. typical

Salamence will go back to OU in a few months.

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>>31454032
Keldeo is just a shitty Ash-Greninja now.

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>>31455387
Not if we let the "defensive" checkmons from OU like Skarmory and Heatran play in CU, we'd almost have Gen 5 OU without weathercancer and with fairies to block Outrage spam. It would be chill.

>stall isnt banned for being completely and utterly game ruiningly boring

If you're literally so bad at this game, you need 6 walls and 500000 turns to stall your opponent out, you're fucking trash. You need to stop playing pokemon, but you're prediction abilities are trash. Your team building abilities are trash, and YOU trash. Stall is BY FAR the easiest, yet most rewarding playstyle because of just how fucking broken toxic, spikes and stealth rocks are. You need 6 fucking crutches to feel good about yourself, and to feel like you're actually able to win.

Stall is cancer. Stall is for low IQ players. If you play stall, kill yourself and remove your pathetic genepool from the earth.

>>31461648
you need good prediction for Stall to work for more than 12 turns retard.

>>31461656

No you literally fucking don't you low IQ fuck. Having 3 fucking physical and special walls mean you have to have 0 prediction abilities, because you'll never be taking any damage. You're fucking trash. Kill yourself ASAP.

>>31456953
This is what I love about RB.
Having to face 6 ubers team in a row with your PU shitmons is the only downside.

>>31461656
nigga what? You just make the safest plays possible until your opponent chokes. One free turn is all Stall needs. I've gotten all my reqs playing stall and if you think it actually needs good predictions, you're stupid.

>>31461676
Anon, you sound mad.

>>31461693
And you sound dumb

If all you do is switch around your walls you lose, you would need better team composition to deal with powerfull threats, specific abilities to asist walls, and some kind of pressure not to be set up bait.

I don't play or like stall, but saying it requires that little thought is just ignorant.

>>31461700

You'd have to be literally below 50 IQ to lose with stall. It basically plays itself.

>tiers

>>31461722
no you don't. Throwing insults around doesn't make you suddenly be right.

Can we go back to gen 5 competitive? This is hurting my head enough.

>>31461722
Then why dont you build a stall team and climb to 1850 to prove it?

>>31461693
If Stall doesnt require good prediction to work, Mega Luc wouldve never been banned but as it turns out, Pokemon can carry coverage options

>one free turn
Yeah, for that wallbreaker to double its offensive stat and melt your team because you didnt expect that Focus Blast Crit.

>>31461700
Maybe in something like SPL playing stall would take more skill, but on ladder it's literally click what's in front of you. The turn they get impatient and choke, Stall gets hazards and can continue playing extremely safe because now they have all the momentum they need. It's even easier with Duggy now because you easily take care of their wallbreakers.

>>31461740

Because its fucking boring and ruins the game for anyone playing against it.

>>31461735

If you think stall takes any kind of skill, then you're in denial, or a stall player saving face.

They ban pokemon that don't have a place in OU. Why can't they realize meta shifts?

>>31461722
>>31461693
+1 252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 100 HP / 252 Def Toxapex on a critical hit: 220-261 (82.7 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
What do you do to prevent this?

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>>31461773
>If you think stall takes any kind of skill, then you're in denial, or a stall player saving face.
nice argument, you really proved me wrong.

>>31461786
Switch to Quag

>>31461773
Then don't play competitive or play AG.
OU is for people trying to win. If stall is as brainless freelo as you say, there's no reason to not use it unless you want to specifically build your team to counter stall at the risk of having an inferior team if youre NOT Stall.

>>31461777
If youre talking about UU bans to BL, theyre not "they dont have a place in OU"; they're "They werent used enough in OU but theyre too strong for any weaker tier"; BL can shrink itself easily because if ~3.41% of players want to use a certain pokemon, but cant use it in UU, even if it isn't OU thats the only tier it's allowed and thus it will rise next tier shift.

>Why can't they realize meta shifts?
You mean like Mandibuzz?
That said, they should really attempt to bring things back down from Ubers when they no longer belong up there for precisely that reason

>>31461786

>scald burn
>if it doesn't burn, head out to better wall like skarm and roost the damage away while he inevitably misses the SE

Wow so hard.

>>31461801

Literally just play stall and you'll find out for yourself.

>>31461773
Then how do you explain there clearly being better Stall players than others, and people still managing to beat counterteams both using and against Stall?
If you think Stall play is just going into the designated wall xN, YOU need to get better at prediction.

>>31461821
252 Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire on a critical hit: 161-190 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Oh look Quagsire dies

>>31461833
>Literally just play stall and you'll find out for yourself.
I don't want to play such a boring playstyle. I play for enjoyment, but I'm not butthurt enough to say it's a brainless strategy.

The bans aren't even live yet on showdown so people are just spamming these guys on ladder funnily enough.

>>31461834

>on a CRIT it doesn't even do half damage and then losses its attack afterwards

wow so much damage.

>>31461834

Some people are just that bad.

>>31461837
Are you aware of the side effects of Superpower? Unless Super Luck Band Tar is a thing, I don't think Quag cares much.

>>31461863
You're not convincing anyone. Stall is easy to play but saying "Stall players are bad" over and over doesn't prove anything to anyone, it just makes you look like a tool and makes your point look stupid.

>>31461898

Regardless, they are trash and that will never change.

>>31461875
Quagsire is not aware of the effects of the Superpower. : ^)

>>31462018
you actually have a point there

>try to do a tournament on showsown
>nearly 100% of them are stall teams because duggy and mega-sab are literally unbeatable in stall teams right now

Fun

>>31462018
Oh right. Then switch into Sableye because you know it's banded. Or even Skarm to get hazards up.

>>31459173
So did Capcom.

>30th Anniversary
No new game.

>>31462058
SM OU is dead. Play literally any other tier, in any other gen.

>>31462094

It's not bad at lower elos, but when you're hitting 1600+, its every other team. Shits as bad as gen 5 weather stall wars.

>>31459518
Sticky web is literally the easiest hazard to play around, even easier than Toxic spikes. A lot of Pokemon don't mind the speed drop, and it has really shit distribution on even shittier pokemon to the point that trying to fit it onto your team makes it worse.

Anyone remember the hype around Sticky Web at the start of X/Y and how people thought it'd change the meta until everyone realized it was shit?

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>>31461837
>on a critical hit

>>31459871
that's not the point you fucking idiot, the point is that Smogon allows the smaller guys to shine. You would never see a fucking Drudiggon on a current VCG game and win with it.

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>>31458019

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>All this verbal shitflinging over Smogon's retarded approach

>Not just paying NU/PU where the fun lives

>Not avoiding wasting your time with le genies and fairy egg and spamchomp meta

You have nobody but yourselves to fucking blame.

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>>31461837

>8.2% chance
>2HKO
>On a critical hit

Tangrowth is still an OU-only?

>>31455027
Only AG is a banlist

>>31462169
As if the le Brave bird and fairy meta is much better

>>31464271

At least you can beat le brave bird with ROCKS. You can't beat stall unless you come prepared to beat stall, but then you lose against every other team that isnt stall.

>>31464271
Beating a T-Flame wasn't a feat of teambuilding. You can make like 70% of them kill themselves just by keeping Rocks up and Chomp alive, which isn't crazy hard, and the other variants don't mangle Offense.
Duggy Stall is a matchup fight. So it's dumb.

>>31460920
But then you're just making your metagame out of an arbitrary bunch of Pokemon of your choosing independently of how often they're used, which completely defeats the purpose of usage-based tiers.

>>31456126
>>31456248
Serious question. Is there anything wrong with changing the tier cutoff definition from "50% chance to show up over 20 battles" to "50% chance to show up over 25 battles" (2.73% usage) or even "50% chance to show up over 30 battles" (2.28% usage)?

So do they reveal ban/community votes every Thursday? And how do you know what mons are on the chopping block? Do they say "we're testing Keldeo, Azumarill, Volcarona...." or is it all just private?

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>>31464776
I miss Talonflame. i honestly do. at least it has a little use in VGC and other smogon tiers (even OU) for priority tailwind and priority Z-Move before fucking off.. ;_;

At least Ash-Greninja replaced him with stupid good priority and as the best cleaner in the game.

RIP Bravest Bird. i still love you.

>>31461773
>He loses to stall
HAHAHAHAHA How the fuck is stall real HAHAHA Nigga just don't sack your wincon HAHAHA Like nigga use Taunt HAHA.

>>31465718

>use taunt
>goes out to mega-sab and shits on you while he recovers

>>31454350
na? more like NU
Jokes, all hail new bravest bird

>>31459871

The point is that the VGC only makes a fraction viable. Smogon creates viability for almost every single Pokemon, allowing almost all of them to see viable use. It seems weird when you see the bans and shit, but it's all for an overall balance that they put work into, unlike Gamefreak.

>>31467558
>Smogon creates viability for almost every single Pokemon
You mean every single Pokemon as long as it promotes stall!

And no. The meta isn't balanced. Half of OU deserves to be Uber!!! OU is Ubers Jr. right now! The Tapus and Beasts are overcentralizing the meta!!! Wake up Mareeple!!! UU is the new OU!