What are some prime examples of bad game design?

Inconsistent difficulty

>>31391741
Gen 1 - 5 Exp. share did nothing wrong

>>31391753
This desu. The original exp share was super balanced

what is the exp share supposed to be? a mind controlling device? does the pokemon wear it like a headset?

File: exp share tcg.jpg (58KB, 578x345px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 578x345px

>>31391823
It's a helmet that shares exp.

File: special stat.png (2KB, 320x288px) Image search: [Google]

2KB, 320x288px

>>31391741
Gen 1 Special Stat

>Bad game design
>Making an item that makes the game more accessible for newer players while making it optional for veteran players
Anon, you should study a bit more of game design

>>31391823
Probably beams the experience of the battle directly to the brains of other party members so its almost like they participated in the battle themselves. But since its not perfect technology, its only 50% EXP. Older models were even worse.

>>31391888
It's bad design if they design the game around the assumption you have it off, but give the EXP share to you on by default.

>>31391915
It's not bad design because as an experienced pokemon player you are suppossed to know how to enter your bag and turn it off, but a 5 year old newbie player doesn't have to know it. I'm a more hardcore focused player too, but you have to think that there are more kind of players out there, and everybody should be able to enjuy the game.

>>31391925
It's bad design because you're speaking completely with hindsight. When they first introduced the new EXP Share there was no indication that they didn't balance the game around its use and had it on by default. And a newcomer might still want to play a harder mode anyway, plenty of people pick Hard Mode when they first play a game. It's even more applicable here since you can turn it on and off anytime you want but you can't delevel your Pokemon.

You know it would really just solve the problem if they just had the NPC straight up say something like "I heard trainers have a much easier time by keeping it on" or something.

>>31391753
Gen 1 had no EXP Share. EXP All was fucking awful

I unironically think hidden abilities are fucking shit as they currently are and shouldn't be in the game. They've legitiately taken a step back from ORAS. The hoops you have to go through to get them are ridiculous.

>>31391933
It's better to make the hard mode optional than to make new players have a bad experience before they know they have chosen the difficult mode. An experienced player can read about the Exp Share, have curiosity and check the bag. A casual player, not so much.

>You know it would really just solve the problem if they just had the NPC straight up say something like "I heard trainers have a much easier time by keeping it on" or something.
So you want another tutorial that it's going to be skipped by casuals and bother hardcore? I really prefer the way it is right now

>>31391942
It wouldn't be so bad if SOS battles weren't agonizingly slow. Stuff like the camera panning up every time the SOS happens really adds up the time.

Maybe they're just priming everyone for a Gen 4 remake by making everything in S/M slow as shit. Even browsing through your PC is slower. I don't get how they could screw something that simple up when they basically got it perfect in Gen 6.

>>31391959
>So you want another tutorial that it's going to be skipped by casuals and bother hardcore
It would literally be like two fucking lines of dialogue.
>I heard turning this on makes things easier for trainers? Would you like me to turn it on for you?
>Yes/No (Have the cursor default to Yes)
>Okay well remember you can always go to your key items and toggle it
Look I'm not one of those people who's mad about the games being easy, but we're talking about what's bad design here and this is legitimately bad design because it's not adequately explained to the player how this thing works and how it impacts the game. Stop making excuses for something this simple. Nobody is going to know ahead of time how they balanced the game.

>>31391985
I really recommend you reading "The art of game design" or other game design books. Or working with casual players. Casual players don't read a thing, and then they complain about games being too difficult. I really prefer having the hard mode as an option, as is in the game.

>>31391997
Why do you keep deflecting to something totally irrelevant to what I said?

I never said they shouldn't have it on by default and in my scenario I even said they should default the cursor to turning it on. If you're really so inclined, have it on by default without that option, but that still doesn't excuse them not explaining how the thing works.

Again, you're still working with a hindsight bias. There's not a single person who played Gen 6 for the first time that could've known they didn't balance the game around the assumption you had it on despite the fact it was on by default.

>>31392014
I have to agree with you that they could have explained the change on gen 6 for veteran players. However, the first combat you win after having it you can know what's going on and go check it.

In my opinion, one of the things that are poor game design on SM is having that many unnecesary cutscenes. And having another one to explain about the item would have just made lots of players to turn it off without knowing (casual players are quite random in their decisions) and then not knowing how to turn it on again (or even not remembering it) when they see they can't beat some trainers. which would have led into those players quitting the game.

>>31392057
>However, the first combat you win after having it you can know what's going on and go check it.
That doesn't do anything because the EXP Share is not intuitively labelled as a normal/hard mode switch. Even a veteran player wouldn't have a psychic link to the developer to know how the level curve is structured through the game. People instantly knew how the thing worked but they weren't going to magically know if the game was balanced with it in mind or not.

Since you're championing intuitive design as the foremost priority, you know what would be a way more intuitive way to have difficulty settings, that pretty much every game has figured out?

Actually having a difficulty settings option.

You can't argue about intuitive design when the assumption that the EXP Share is a hard mode switch is not something that's intuitive to begin with.

>>31391741
Pic unrelated.

>festival plaza

>>31392100
That's true, but if I see that I can get more experience by turning on the item, it's not really that hard to think that the game it's going to be easier that if I didn't.

I agree that difficulty setting options are far more easy to use than the Exp Share, but the Exp Share offers an immersive way to have it, which is no easy task.

>>31391741
Have you seen a fucking 11 year old play Pokemon? Even with EXP share on, losing battles in SM isn't too odd for them. That's good game design, as it allows players who want to grind less a simple method to play and enjoy the game.

>Examples of bad design
>GF thinks it's a good idea to not include Vs. Seeker

THEY CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

File: hqdefault.jpg (11KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 480x360px

>>31391741
Gen 1 Exp. All sucks just like a lot of Gen 1 things.

Shit like Exp. All, SOS battles, low encounter rates, and etc. are what made me an injectfag.

This is the first Pokemon game where I fear wild battles, thank goodness the game throws so much easy money at you.

>>31391925
>everybody should be able to enjuy the game
Back in gen 1 EXP All was only obtained once you had caught 50 (1/3 of the dex) pokemon, and it split the exp 6 ways. In Gens 2-5, Exp Share wasn't available till late game/it wasn't always obvious how to obtain it. It was an actual upgrade to have it and was incredibly useful to level up ONE other pokemon alongside your active mon. Now in gens 6 and 7 you start with it and it applies to all mon, and it's not even split 6 ways like it was gen 1.

The point is, back in gens 1-5, I didn't need exp share to play the game. Neither did you or anyone else, be it man, woman, adult or child. Games today, not just pokemon, are casualising games to the point where, in some cases, they strip the game of its fundamental cores. If I was able to beat pokemon red when I was 5, and various other SNES/N64 games when I was a kid, kids today are able to do so too, so newer games can demonstrate some kind of challenge too. It's more satisfying to overcome a challenging game that has good design so the obstacles are all on you. Being able to finish a game through your own skill is rewarding and fun. Being taken for a ride through a story and mindlessly pressing buttons along the way isn't fun from a game perspective. You may as well just be watching a movie.

Gaming companies seem to think kids these days just want a compelling story where they essentially do nothing and finish the game. This makes it more 'accessible' cause they're basically just selling films. Having exp share on in gen 7 is almost like this. I didn't grind once in the game. Now, this could actually be seen as a good thing because what is grinding? Grinding is just mindlessly pressing buttons, wiping out everything possible until you level up. In some cases you could just see it as simply waiting. This, in itself, is bad game design. So take it what you will, exp share in gen 6/7 is good and bad for different reasons.

>>31391741
>>31391753
>>31391806
>>31391915
>>31391933
>t; wrong people

>>31392452
The fact is that gaming has changed. Back then you have a very limited pool of games to compete with, so when the kid bought a game, it was less likely for them to drop it because it was too difficult.

Now, every child has a mobile device. If the child is not enjoying your game, it will download one of the millions of games available in iOS or Android. And you cannot afford that, even less when you are working with a franchise as pokemon, so you have to make the game accessible for all kind of players.

>>31392452
>Talks about how pokemon has always been accessible for all players because old games have always been accessible despite difficulty.

>>31392569
>Make the game into a movie so that the 'game' is more accessible to players who are straight up lazy or don't really want to play a game.

>>31392569
I don't get this line of thought. The fact they have a 3DS to begin with already means they're probably not a typical smartphone/tablet casual gamer.

Personally I think the difficulty of the games are just fine, I just don't get the reasoning.

>>31392569
I got The Last of Us recently because of the critical acclaim, marking it as a master piece in gaming. Literally so many people raving about how good it was.

If you enjoy video games, and actually like facing a challenge, and feeling emotions through gameplay, do NOT play this 'game'. Knowing it's as critically acclaimed as it is makes it that much sadder to play, because it's barely a game. I'm only like 15 hours in, but the game itself is SO mediocre, the ONLY redeeming factor is the story and the characters. The main character is quite touching because of what transpires with his daughter, but I just felt like I was watching a film. The character development and relationships between them aren't too bad neither, but here's the real kicker: The story itself is actually pretty bland and mediocre too, ESPECIALLY for the genre of the story.

So why? Why is this game so well received? Bland gameplay, bland story (so far), decent characters (I guess), and yet it has like 9.5/10 or something stupid on metacritic, and a sequel is coming. How have video games reduced to such mediocrity? Or am I just missing something?

I felt more emotions playing through fucking pokemon sun than I did the Last of Us, because I had caught my own mon, I had actually made a contribution to the game through gameplay and through my own actions. I actually overcame totems and battles with the pokemon I had chosen and obtained, fighting against various other monsters of different types and abilities. In Last of Us, I've pretty much just sprinted through hoardes of zombies, of which there are 2 kinds. Last of Us does a good job of making you afraid of interacting with the zombies, but unfortunately it's to the point where you want to avoid playing the game, because pretty much all you do is interact with zombies and the game actively tells you not to and that you don't want to.

Fucking crazy world we live in.

>>31392701
>15 hours in
>Only
>In TLoU
Try again.

>>31392605
Everybody has a tablet or mobile device nowadays, the fact that those players own a 3DS doesn't make them less casual. They can be more midcore (which isn't always true since the 3DS might have been a present or somethink they wanted at a point but they got bored in no time), but this doesn't change the fact that the offer of games to them is unlimited. If they are stucked in a place, they'll go play Class Royale, i.e.

>>31392746
Oh boy, I can't wait to see what it has in store for me. More 'stealth' through hoards of zombies? The story might get more interesting, but I want to play a game, not watch a mediocre film over 30 hours or however long this 'game' is.

File: pokemon-fusion-hitler.png (26KB, 456x413px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 456x413px

>>31392701
It's praised because different people like different things.

Like, I don't like TLoU that much but I don't get how people on 4chan have such difficulty understanding that sometimes you're not going to agree with the mainstream. If your response to that is to go on 4chan and talk about how people have shit taste and can't understand truly good games and kino that's probably why you don't have a lot of friends.

>>31392790
It's just about 15 hours, actually. So you're either lying and talking out your ass or are horrible at games. Or both. I'd like to hope not both.

>>31392876
Seriously? 15 hours is pretty pathetic if that's all the 'game' has to offer. I might just be 10 hours in then. I can't remember, been a while since I went back to that shit. Definitely double digits though. The most fun I've really had with the 'game' is exploring every nook and cranny trying to find all the tags and upgrades and shit. Even then, I can't believe out of like 15, 7 drawers I've opened so far have had nothing in them. So pointless.

File: 1476141218683.png (251KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

251KB, 500x375px

Every useful or cool thing GF introduces and then proceeds to drop for no fucking reason.

Why do they do it?

>>31392701
Immersion, really. People adore immersive good-graphics games, regardless of the actual gameplay. Like, take Witcher 3 for example: people will readily admit that the gameplay is pretty damn mediocre, but still say it's an amazing game. The problem is that if you don't care about immersion, every immersive game just looks like a very slow movie.

If you're looking for good gameplay games, you have to remember that a game rarely get seeping 10/10s for having complex but impressive systems, it gets them by being super casual to the point where anyone can play it.

>Losing a battle royale takes no effort and gives 1 battle point.
>Winning a battle royale takes tremendous skill, luck, and effort, and awards *2* Battle points.
...
I am right now building a battle royale team that just knows momento, explosion, and self destruct purely so I can lose battle royale fast enough to get a fucking destiny knot.

>>31393043
Because they try to give every region their own identity.

>>31393083
The Battle Tree shares BP with Royale so you shouldn't even bother unless you want the ribbon.

>>31391915
>designed around the assumption that you have it off
But that's literally wrong
I mean, it felt like that in XY, but I was definitely underlevelled by the end of Sun/Moon with no xp share

>>31392452
The real question is why you care so much about other people "not needing it" in their own game that doesn't affect you at all. Nobody really gives a single shit about what we did as kids.

>>31393126
Sun and Moon is weird. They added the BW style EXP curve on top of the EXP Share, so the EXP Share doesn't affect your top levels as much as it does in XY, but it makes it really easy to train up new members.

Honestly that was a great solution since one of the issues with Pokemon is that some players rotate their team members around.

>>31393097
That's a bullshit excuse, and none of us are fooled by it.

>>31392990
I've always wanted to make a game with "random drawer crap" as one of the variables programmed in: like this.
>Open drawer
>Find half a pack of fossilized chewing gum, a pair of cheap scissors, a fistful of pens and pencils, an installation CD for some doccument reading software, and one shoelace (still in the box).
>All items can be taken and will take up space in your inventory, but not really have a function, because evil.

>>31393117
Does battle tree give you BP for losing? Because I just seem to be losing a fucking ton right now, and I'd really like to get on with the whole breeding thing so I can have some halfway decent pokemon to battle with.

>>31393159
That's what opening up a drawer is like in real life.
Just mundane generic office supplies.

>>31393175
Exactly.

>>31393174
Breeding doesn't magically make your pokemon not lose.
The Battle Tree is purpose-built to fuck you raw.
Just use bullshit strategies with few counters.

>>31393194
I need to breed to get said bullshit strategies with few counters.

In XY, the daycare was on a long, straight road that made it easy to move back and forth and collect eggs.
In ORAS it was on an island perfect for breeding, just a big, lazy loop. Amazingly bike experience.
In S&M it's in this tiny scratch of windy dirt surrounded by tall grass so you can't just pace around outside without triggering a lilpup battle.

File: tumblr_inline_oh6q7jq6VZ1so6dd5_540.jpg (100KB, 540x720px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 540x720px

>>31393320
Use the fenced in square while on Tauros or Stoutland

>>31393292
Changing up your team every 5 battles or so is another good way to keep the AI from hard-countering you.

Say you've got a Dark type with ya; eventually the AI is gonna hard counter you with Mimikyu or something. Switch out that Dark type for a Steel type so the AI doesn't get the upperhand.

>>31393379
Wow, wierd how that works, thank you!

>>31393379

now why would you do that? you should be collecting eggs while hatching and that box makes that very tedious

>>31393418
Then use the road to the right of the daycare to run up and down to spawn eggs, collect as many as you want, then go hatch.

Yeah it's a shitty system, but it's what we got.

>>31393159
>>31393175
>>31393187
Except there wasn't even that. When I say nothing, I literally mean nothing.

Bad game design =\ something i dont like

>>31393614
No, but when you make a game where the game is basically exploring and collecting upgrades, and Little Big Planet, a platformer, does it better than you, then you know the last of us had some bad design somewhere along the line.

>>31393507
Earthbound did that with the Ruler and Protractor items. Even a decade after the game came out, people still insisted that they had to have some kind of use.

>>31393750
I would rather I found a ruler and a protractor that ended up doing nothing than finding literally nothing. Earthbound is an incredible game regardless too. The ruler and protractor probably MEAN something in the world.

Whereas with TLOU I'm grasping at straws to find good gameplay elements. Finding literally nothing you could say "oh, this symbolises how empty the world is becoming in resources to give a sense of desperation." Except in Earthbound, is was done well enough for me to actually care and sympathise, whereas here it's incredibly bland in comparison.

>>31393418
>>31393418
>Go into fenced box
>call tauros
>B-dash while rotating the analogue stick
>Turn around 8-9 times
>get off tauros
>walk to girl.
>she has an egg.

It's like, light speed hatching and breeding.

>>31391741
GSC and HGSS
The leveling was garbage.
Battling tons of Rocket Grunts with level 20 pokemon when my pokemom were in their 30s was disgusting.
I still love the region, pokemon and music.
More linearity would've helped it a lot.

>>31391857
OMG IT'S A HELMET??? I NEVER NOTICED THAT!

>>31391741
You don't have to battle every trainer, dumb cunt.

>>31391741
IVs.