NONONONONONONONONO

Why do people WANT their favourite to be OU
I don't get it
Like sure, OU was THE tier back in gen 4/5; it was the tier that excluded "shit that was so strong it was a joke", and shitmons couldn't function properly without specialized setups.

This gen, OU is non-legendary "shit that is so broken it's a joke". Why want your Pokemon in that tier when UU is bigger and less shitty?

>>31243334
>her

>>31243334
A better hidden ability would have done the trick.

>>31243334
Falseflagger get OUT

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>>31243334
its UU
so now you can use it in both UU and OU

OU is Tapu/UB cancer. UU is much better now.

>>31243443
UU is the new OU and RU is the new UU

UU is where all the cool kids are now, anyway. Even Bisharp is UU now, that's how you know it's the best tier.
I don't want to choke on all the "not-legendary I swear" mons dicking up my meta with terrains and fairy.

I don't think the term UU really fits the tier anymore much like how NU wasn't really fitting that tier in gen 5, thus RU. Something inbetween "under used" and "over used", "used" seems wrong but it'd at least be accurate to the power level of the tier.

Suggestions for acronym? JU? Just used

>>31243334
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2016-12/gen7pokebankuualpha-1500.txt

Primarina is high-tier UU at the moment which is better because it's still a decent mon and doesn't have to deal with just the cancerous OU meta.

>>31243484
MU-Moderately Used

>>31243334
>expecting a starter to be OU unless it has a mega or released HA

2/10 made me reply

>>31243484
Change tier names entirely
It's no longer about usage since if you want a non-UB non-Tapu spam game you're going to have to shift to a "lower" tier. I predict there will be a lot more people playing UU than OU; so does that make UU more used than OU? Yes it does.

>Uber: 5 more minutes mom!
>OU: Garchomp has been my bro since gen 3
>UU: It's still good...it's still good
>RU: I last played in gen 4
>NU: Strong Pokemon, weak Pokemon

In fact, is there a reason the "tier" you play in isn't just determined by the sum of your team's base stat totals? Wouldn't that make much more sense?

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>>31243494
>>31243484
When the Use hits just right.

>>31243570
>In fact, is there a reason the "tier" you play in isn't just determined by the sum of your team's base stat totals? Wouldn't that make much more sense?
level 1 geodude with stealth rock
sash healing wish buneary and ralts
mega rayquaza
xerneas
blank spot

>>31243334
Previous high tier ubers have fallen into moderate usage in OU

It's fucking terrifying

>>31243570
Yes there are reasons. Pokemon like articuno are trash but have way more base stats than mega mawile, which is a complete monster. Then you'd also have to factor in pokemon such as ash-greninja, megas, wishiwashi etc. Way too stupid of a way to "balance". Smogon is flawed af, but it's definitely better than this bullshit.

>>31243334
Dumb owlfag go away.

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>>31243334
Personally i honestly think it should go lower as when a mon is so min maxed to the point the only viable items are just to boost the maxed portion, you just don gone fucked up
>>31243368
>Gen 5
>THE tier
>>31243645
>Implying real owlfags aren't actually chilling with their nigga in the place it always belonged in

>>31243622
This. Being in OU is awful this time around, i'm a bit glad most of my favourites got knocked down to UU so I dont have to deal with pheromosa, koko, lele, half of last gen's ubers and lando-T

I wish I hated garchomp

>>31243368
I remember back when I would get shit for using my bro all the time, now fucking blasiken is banned.

>>31243597
Yeah so? That sounds fine. Lv1 Geodude can't outspeed shit and I'd rather deal with one Mega Ray and Xerneas than a whole team of Primal Groudon, Mega Blaziken, Xerneas, etc etc.

>>31243635
>Pokemon like articuno are trash but have way more base stats than mega mawile, which is a complete monster.
How exactly is that different to what we have now
No one uses Articuno regardless

>Then you'd also have to factor in pokemon such as ash-greninja, megas, wishiwashi etc.
Just say "If you have a Mega Stone, -100 from total". Same for the Ash-Greninja and Wishiwashi. It's not like "they might not change form!" because otherwise why would they even be there.

>Way too stupid of a way to "balance". Smogon is flawed af, but it's definitely better than this bullshit.
Well, it's just a thought. Dark Souls III did a similar thing and balanced it well.

>>31243695
Having a team with sableye, marowak, mega-mawile, shuckle, porygon2 are good and leaves points for a high bst powerful mon.

Having regice, regigigas, slaking, acheops, lyurem-b and meganium would cost a shit ton and be useless for the amount it would take. It just leaves space for very heavy flaws. Also reducing from megas and form changes could also be detrimental in case you're unable to actually change it mid-battle.

It's a creative idea on paper, but pn practice it would become a mess quickly with no banlists.

>>31243695
A niche meta sorta (big emphasis on sorta) like that exists. You have something 1000 points to spend, uber pokemon costs like 800, nu is like 50-100, and so on. I didn't enjoy it to be honest.

>>31243758
>Having a team with sableye, marowak, mega-mawile, shuckle, porygon2 are good and leaves points for a high bst powerful mon.
And that's fine. Your average kiddy isn't going to look those Pokemon up because they're not the immediate "badass" and "cool" Pokemon. If you spend time picking and choosing your team, more power to you. Isn't that, I don't know, kind of what building a Pokemon team is about?

>Having regice, regigigas, slaking, acheops, lyurem-b and meganium would cost a shit ton and be useless for the amount it would take.
Then don't make a team with those guys. That's like saying "using a team full of starters would be shit, so should be impossible to do!" If you don't know what you're doing in Pokemon battle, you should be allowed to fail. Let people build shitty teams and get fucked. Let people build unexpected teams and succeed.

>Also reducing from megas and form changes could also be detrimental in case you're unable to actually change it mid-battle.
That's part of the risk. If you can get off a Mega it gives you a massive advantage; if not, you fucked up. This will also make not using ANY Mega a viable strategy.

>It's a creative idea on paper, but pn practice it would become a mess quickly with no banlists.
Well, I didn't say NO banlists, but Smogon tiers are quickly becoming incredibly numerous. Don't get me wrong, I actually love playing the Smogon metagame; I'm just ballparking ideas.

>>31243857
I think I've heard of that actually, just never followed it up for some reason.

Smogon needs to rename their tiers

"underused" my ass

>>31243976
I want to keep discussing, but it's 3am and you're too logical to disagree entirely. Not that I'd be a fan of such a meta, but I guess it depends on which bst per team would be the max allowed. Has showdown actually made a tier like this? I know they used to make monthly metas with different quirks just to see what changes would occur.

>>31243570
S/A/B/C/D/E/F.

OP sure is false-flagging really hard huh? I mean no one expected Primarina to be OU. Most Primarinafags are perfectly happy being UU after all of the PU shitposting

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>>31244015
>tfw ur bro is Z tier

can someone tell me what the fuck liquid voice would be used for?

>>31244091
It gets Boomburst, right?

Someone please tell me it gets Boomburst

>>31244101
nope, if you're lucky a tutor in Stars might teach it

>>31244091
I want to say doubles, but I doubt even that. It's probably one of the worst abilities there are.

>>31244101
Nope, Primarina will NEVER get Boomburst unless it becomes more popular, since GF seems to outright dislike it.

>>31244091
Hyper Voice break through Substitute

>>31244101
no

>>31244091
With what it has currently? Niche doubles strat in hyper voice as it doesn't hit the partner like surf.

Otherwise it'd be great for moves with shit types but good effects, or absurdly strong moves for STAB.

>>31244101
If it did OP wouldn't have been posting this thread.

>>31244108
>>31244109
>>31244110
Hahahaaa holy shit what a fucking shitmon

Honestly all this time I thought it got Boomburst, I thought that was its thing; I wouldn't know I picked Rowlet

>>31244123
I have a feeling you did know and just wanted to shitpost bait kun.

>>31244123
haha, yeah man, such a shitmon it made it to UU. If only it had boomburst like chatot and swellow do, it'd be good like them

>>31244123
all of them are shitmon

>spirit shackle doesn't persist after switch out/KO of decidueye, making him go from a fucking awesome utility/supportmon into the garbage bin

>this shit with primarina

>shallow movepool speed lacking incineroar is just another emboar

>>31244144
you do realize the tiers are only separated by UU/OU/ubers right now, it's just an outline

there will be a lot more shifting, all 3 are at best RU

>>31243334
>not using some form of adblock

>>31244166
Something tells me you hasn't seen the recent usage statistics, and RU exists now.

>>31244123
252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 369-435 (108.2 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Do you actually want this to exist. Are you stupid.
Just for reference here.
252+ Atk Heracross-Mega Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 290-350 (85 - 102.6%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 364-429 (106.7 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>31244166
I could see it, but incineroar isn't RU at all until it gets intimidate and UU just banned baton pass (this applies to all tiers under it) so the owl isn't climbing any higher than NU.
Also Primarina IS UU, not "might be", is.

>>31244207
>UU just banned baton pass

why do they keep shitting on this move? Honest question I have no idea

>>31244227
Puts too much pressure on teambuilding. It's quite literally impossible to prepare for stock standard strats like stall and HO or balanced offence AND baton pass. Baton pass being the new kid on the block (recently viable that is) gets the short straw. I can guarantee the same thing would happen to trick room if it got an extending item and an auto setter.

>>31244227
Have you played against lead Scolipede BP, before the initial OU ban?
Shit was dumb as fuck.

>>31244248
yet they do nothing for stall, of course

All 3 will be solid UU when Tiger gets Intimidate.

>>31244207
Not him but everyone wants Boomburst Primarina to exist. If you think that is op somehow then suggest it get an entirely different Ability, because without Boomburst Liquid Voice is totally worthless.

>>31244262
Stall is fine. Plus Stall is essentially only is OH and (gen 6) RU.

>>31244259
I'm a complete scrub who's been out of the comp metagame since gen 5

why would something like, say, baton pass owl be over the top?

>>31244248
oh also the part where in this equation baton pass has a favourable matchup against all the standard strategies before it short of them dedicating 2/3 of their pokemon to fucking baton pass specifically. These are deadweight against the normal teams and aren't garunteed to work on baton pass.

>>31244262
Try a specs togekiss sometime. Stallfag tears assured.

>>31244269
Untrue, it currently is but there's more moves than just boomburst that would be good with it. Snarl and chatter come to mind.

>>31244291
*in OU. Fucking phones

>>31244262
That's because stall is relatively easy to deal with when teambuilding.

>>31244207
That's the thing, though. This generation introduced a few ridiculously powerful STABs in the form of terrain-boosted Thunderbolts, Psychics and Wood Hammers, and somehow Primarina shouldn't get a Water-type Boomburst?

It's pretty slow, anyways. You might as well call Rampardos OP because it deals too much damage:

252+ Atk Life Orb Rampardos Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 419-493 (122.8 - 144.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And it doesn't even have to be locked into a move.

>>31244324
primarina has a good type and bulk in at least one stat, this is the key difference

>>31244296
>Snarl and chatter come to mind.
How in the fuck do you figure that anyone would ever use two mediocre moves like that? Neverminding that LV actually would make them lose coverage, the only things that would be of any use. No really, I want to hear how either of those could ever be worthwhile.

>>31244324
Rampardos is slow, frail, and busts it neck clean off its stupid body with recoil though. Thats literally all it can do, and it can do it twice, maybe.

>Caring about tiers.

>>31244381
>Caring about other people caring about tiers.
Pathetic

>>31244340
It still wouldn't be great due to its speed. It's too fast for trick room and too slow for regular play. Besides, it gets one-shotted by Tapu Koko and Tapu Bulu.

A better alternative for Primarina would be to give Liquid Voice the damage boost that abilities like Aerilate would get, though. It'd at least give it a niche. Now it just has a Surf that can get past subs.

>>31244367
What, being support moves makes them shit?
Chatter is asscancer that turns safe switchins into a gamble, Snarl is pretty shit in singles but a great move to use in doubles to the point of it seeing use on fucking krookodile there. Losing coverage on shit coverage types is nothing compared to gaining STAB on these so they turn 3/4hko's into 2/3hko's. Does that answer your question champ?

>>31244409
I digress, it'd be OU, not top of OU but still there.
>Liquid Voice the damage boost that abilities like Aerilate would get
Interesting, how would you have it work with sparkling aria (already water typed sound move)

>>31243334
Who the fuck thought it'd be OU?

It seemed like solid UU material. And that's fine.

>>31244435
Just give it the 30% boost. It's go the same BP as Hyper Voice anyways, and since it heals burns people would still not use it.

>>31244435
Well for one thing, Primarina doesn't have the ability to work well as a support pokemon, so that makes Snarl useless for it. And Primarina wants to hit as hard as possible to compensate for how it lacks in everything else, so no one would ever want to use either of those low-damage moves over something harder like Surf/Hydro Pump or something decently powerful with a chance to compensate for it's main weakness with Scald. If you remove it's ability to kill, you make it incapable of accomplishing anything.

But it really sounds like you just want to try and justify keeping it's HA useless because you don't want it to have anything going for it.

>>31243334
Why would you want it to be OU anyway? The fact that Landorus-T is still on top shows even a new gen didn't stop it from being cancer.

>>31244499
I want it to stay in UU where it's a versatile tank rather than go to OU as a one trick pony.

>>31244528
We're not talking about competitive standing, or at least I'm not. I'm just talking something to justify Liquid Voice existing. As it is it's probably one of the worst abilities in existence and has no real value. Easiest solution for that is either giving it Boomburst or giving the ability the same damage boost as the other -ate abilities.

>>31244292
> Baton Pass

There you go. Take your cancer move and go.

>>31244579
that didn't answer my question

>>31244560
Meh. Just throw it in the club with all the starters with shell armor and delphox then.

>>31244587
How dense are you? Baton Pass is pure cancer. That's the reason. It's a shitter move retards use because they have no skill.

>>31244597
you still havn't answered my question, what is overbearing about a pokemon like decidueye having baton pass

>>31244591
Shell Armor might be situational but it certainly isn't as useless as Liquid Voice. Magician is pretty bad but it still does something I guess, not that I wouldn't change it too.

>>31244603
I guess because it can trap with Spirit Shackle and then set up swords dance or something and pass it along?

But it's really not good enough to accomplish even that. Unless your opponent's dumb enough to lock himself into a Normal or Fighting-type move while a ghost is still in play you're never going to pull it off.

>>31244634
exactly, he's not bulky enough for that and you can switch out prior

>>31244603
Nothing. But they aren't going to just keep "Baton Pass is legit on Decidueye tho" as an addendum on the clause. That's not how they operate.

>>31244618
Could be worse. Stunfisk has limber still.

>>31244640
I feel like the baton pass ban hurts more than it heals. I feel like they should make abusers to go BL instead

but I don't know shit about comp so oh well

>>31244444
Quints of truth

Doesn't Owl get U-Turn to pivot around anyway?

>>31244640
Then they should ban Pokemon that are broken with Baton Pass (Scolipede and whatever else) since it's clearly not OP on every Pokemon that gets it (unlike say, Moody). That's what old smogon would do anyway, nu-gon has long since taken over the site.

>>31244669
I just used owl as an example, holds true for many pokemon UU and under

>>31244669
Yes but U-turn is counter productive with Baton Pass

>>31244710
No.

Baton Pass is a broken move, and uncompetitive. You are terrible. Please don't speak about competitive Pokemon.

>>31244710
Meh, oldsmog would have banned the entirety of this OU to Ubers except Chomp, Lando and Stallmons, and put Scolipede in BL and ban BP, assuming it's still UU by usage.
Not that I would have a problem with any of that.

>>31244748
If its uncompetitive why is it banned? Check and mate smogon fag

>>31244748
Please explain to me how Ledian is broken with Baton Pass. I'll wait.

>uncompetitive
the shitters go-to phrase when they want something banned but can't form an actual argument that would explain its brokeness

>>31244774
>>31244773
So, I take it you fine anon don't actually play singles? Or at the very least, haven't in a tier with a functional BP user?

>>31244786
I dont play with gay tierlists but if baton pass works in higher tiers its competitive and not the opposite

>>31244786
>no argument still

>>31244804
That's not what "uncompetitive" means in this sense.
>>31244806
Ledian isn't broken with BP. That was never what this ban was about, and if you think it is you're retarded.