How do we save these types?

>>31217614
Put them on a nice crab Pokemon.

>>31217635
Give said Crab mon Trick Room support

>>31217614
Make them slow.

Nerf every other type until they even out.

>>31217614
Priority.

>>31217614
ice: make more slow and frail mons
rock: make more inaccurate damaging moves
grass: needs another weakness

Bug is super effective against Fairy, Ice resists Ground and Flying.

Ice is supposed to be frail. It's fucking ice. It's got gr8 type coverage and the worst defense of any type because its ice.

Fighting... eh, I don't really see a problem. Smashing steel and normal types is a damn small niche. Get rid of the Ghost immunity, maybe? IDK

Just make more pokemon like Weavile and Mamoswine.

>>31217614
Fighting needs more defensive options. Chesnaught and Buzzwole are good steps in that direction.

Ice needs to reclaim its offensive advantage by discouraging mere use appropriation as a coverage option. That is to say, make it so that, for example, (non-Ice) Water types using Ice moves only do half as much damage. Then throw in an extra resist of Flying to break up Flying's ability to cover its resists with Ground. You can do the same with Fairy since its resists are also covered by Ground, but I'd rather have Grass gain that resist.

>>31217686

As in more physical ice attackers?

Yeah, sure. It's not like ice beam and blizzard are worth using, at least you have icicle miss

>>31217614
No Seriously, Why doesn't GF realize that ice is one of the most best offensive types and they should be making them fast and frail like Weavile or at least tanks like Kyurem.

>>31217735
>As in more physical ice attackers?
No, fast attackers (or at least in mamo's case, ridiculously strong attackers with great dual stab and enough speed to work.)

>>31217614
>fighting
Remove the fairy weakness and make it neutral against fairy. 'Good' type shouldn't be weak to another 'good' type.
>Ice
Faster mons. Gamefreak doesn't seem to realize they've built an excellent offensive type and keep trying to push them as bulky tanks. Also stop giving Ice beam to everything else. Even goddamn Golisopod has it.

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>>31217614
Start with Ice resisting Water, Flying, and Bug. Have Ghost have no effect on Fighting.

>>31217771
>>31217739
This.

GF can't seem to get their heads out of their asses and give Ice more fast offensive mons, instead of giving us more bulky ice types that get shit on by everything.

>>31217825
>Ghost not being able to hit fighting
>Poltergeists are known to posess objects
>Ghost pokemon launching a chair or some shit with shadow ball at a fighting types
Do you even mental gymnastics?

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>>31217773
>Kyurem
Not every Pokemon can have 660-700 BST, and a reasonable tanky ice type like Avalugg just isn't enough because of how bad ice is for a defensive typing.

>>31217890
By that logic, Ghost type moves should hit Normal types.

But they don't.

>>31217825
Bug doesn't deserve another nerf.

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>>31217890
>not being able to do the same with normal

>>31217614

Fighting was really really really really good in Gen 5. I ran three different fighting types on my team of 6 and had no issues, not even with the occassional Acrobatics gimmick guys.

Gen 6's changes nerfed them appropriately, there were no issues with running a fighting type on your team. Bravest Bird made things rough but not dire. You never felt like their type was holding them back as much as Ice or Grass.

Somehow without changing the type chart at all, things have finally turned DIRE for fighting type in Gen 7. It's entirely the fault of there now being Very Good fairies instead of Just Alright fairies. The fighting types that are viable are exclusively the extreme ones like Pheromosa and Mega Lucario. Anything else is just dead weight currently.

>>31217897
Avalugg pisses me off so much in battle tree because I often run my hail team and don't have any fire moves at the moment (gotten 27 streak at most with it so far)

>>31217735
We need a special version of Weavile. I seriously can't thing of a good STAB Ice Beam user besides Kyurem (who's not even legal in official formats,) and Greninja I guess, because the best ice type is actually a water type.

With how many defensive ice types there are, I don't get why people say "just make more offensive ice types", instead of adding 2 resists and stopping there. The type as a whole would be better and nothing would be left behind.

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Is fairy just a better psychic?

>>31217661
>grass: needs another weakness
and two additional types should resist it

>>31217614

>Fighting

You wut

>Ice

Less defensive more attacking

Also fast

Look at Sandslash, he gets slush rush

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>>31217735

>tfw Ice Hammer

>>31217948
If there was a bunch of Psychic type Pokemon that were made to be bulky and one offensive Pokemon, it'd be shit as well. Why not do both?

>>31217635
>>31217646

Crap*

well then: fixed. No need to thank me

>>31217931

Alolan Ninetails

>>31218026
Is weak as fuck. It's a support mon with Aurora Veil.

>>31217614
Remove Bug's resistance to Fighting.

>>31217635
>>31217646
>it's ice
>it's fighting
>it's a crab

>no ice shard, mach punch, or aqua jet

JUST

>>31218026
>>31218032
and should run blizzard instead of beam anyway

>>31217614
Make fast.

>>31218026
Alolan Bullet Punch

>>31217931

Jynx

Technically Mega Glalie

Technically Sylvally

>>31218034
>make one of the weakest types even weaker
you should send your resume to gf, they also have no ideo what balance is

I don't really use ice but I virtually never have a team without a fighting type I depend on and I don't feel it's underpowered at all

>>31217825
>Resisting bug
>When bug is resisted by 7 (Seven) types
Fuck you. Ice fags deserve the shit type that they got.

>>31217954
Not completely. Psychic is a slightly better offensive type (they're both resisted by steels but defensive fires and poisons are more common than defensive darks) and psychics are needed to check other psychics (like tapu lele, who has the coverage to get past steels and usually can't afford to carry shadowball.)

Not exactly related to the typings but psyshics also usually have a much better movepool.

>>31218068
*good special counterpart to Weavile

>>31218032

So is weavile

>>31218089
>120 base attack with two amazing offensive types
>weak

>>31218066

You can say the same about weavile

>>31217825
>nerfing Bug even more
Ice resisting Water makes no sense thematically either, it should be the other way around.

If you want to say fuck theme then make Ice resist Dragon and Fairy.

>>31218088

Mega Glalie has 120 in both stats

Sylvally has 95 in all stats

Jynx exists

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>>31218080
So then remove Bug's x.5 to Ghost and Fighting.

Trick room mega abamassnow and Crabominable rape

>>31218133
I said GOOD special counterpart. All of those are too slow and two can't even hold an item

>>31218113
Weavile isn't 4x weak to it.

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>>31218120
>theme
Why is Fairy super effective against Dragon? Make some stretches. Water freezes in the cold, why would water be effective?

>>31218189
It's dying anyway

>>31217883
>>31217739

Cause Ice got cucked out of its roll as Dragon killer the moment faeries showed up.

Seriously, ice doesn't kill anything else that matters other then dragon, and Faerie does that job better nowadays since a fuckton of dragons are losing the 4x ice weakness trope that existed for 4 gens.

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>>31218193
Because magic kills dragons. Swords are useless unless they're spiced up with some fairy magic.

Pic-related for the example. Notice the sparkling on the sword; it's been modded with magic from fairies.

>>31218302
>OHKOd Maleficent with a Smart Strike
There's no way he didn't inject that sword.

>>31218367
Well, it did pop out of a Dream Ball at the start of the battle...

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>>31218302

That's an asspull if I ever saw one

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>>31218302
True True. There are others that seem to be odd.
>Ground super effective against Poison
>Psychic super effective against Poison
I guess you could stretch that Mind over Impurities

>>31218397
Fairies are basically asspulls in physical form. The "ass" part being shown it many works of fiction, besides the disney stuffs.
To be fair, fairy should've resisted dragon instead of an immune.

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>>31218397
Look man i don't get it either. Personally I figured Ice and Dragon type moves were enough, but GF thought otherwise.

>>31218430
Resisting dragon definitely isn't enough though. Remember 4drag2mag?

>>31218411
You'd think "poisoning the mind" would play into psychic being weak to poison.
As Lusamine shows

Only way to save Fighting is to give the type more special attackers and moves. There's a reason Lucario is OP and Medicham sucks

>>31218411
Supposedly ground isn't horribly affected by poisons such as radiation. As for Psychic, mind over matter?

Why Water isn't weak to Poison is beyond me though.

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>>31218450
Like I said, I'm really stretching and it doesn't really make sense to me why poison isn't super effective to living shit.

>>31218451

>A mega medicham fake out for 55% of your opponent's hp isn't OP

>>31218481
Same reason Poison is super-effective against Normal-types, I guess. But at least Water has more of a reason to not be weak to it.

>>31218450
I still say Poison and Psychic should be SE against each other. Poison gets barely any love. We had to wait til Gen 6 for it to get another type to be SE against

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>looking at this thread and realizing half the type match ups make no fucking sense.

>>31218508
Not super-effective against Normal-types I mean.

>>31218508
I dunno, poisoning a water supply can have detrimental effects. Hence why we have to boil water in emergency situations. Not to mention, oil spills destroy marine life.

>>31218551
Yeah, but pure water dilutes poisons and running water will eventually flush toxins out of an area provided more aren't being fed into it or fed into the source itself. I guess that might be why it's neutral against it.

>>31217677
>Ice is supposed to be frail. It's fucking ice. It's got gr8 type coverage
That would work out, if Pokemon couldn't learn ice moves without being ice type.

>>31218587
Huh..you do make a good point.

>>31217646
this shit is so dumb

if you're gonna use trick room anyway then why not just use the much better Conkeldurr instead? Why don't you people ever think before shitposting?

>>31218587
Sure, but if the source in being constantly fed poisons, like the pokemon, it would stay poisoned? Seems to be the point of an attack.

>>31218652

TR teams almost never run a fighting type

>>31218654
Attacks don't repeat in Pokemon unless they're binding moves like Clamp and Whirlpool or status effects. And if you're just referring to poisoning a water source where water-types are living then that's something else entirely.

If you mean a move like Freeze Dry wy the fuck do we not have more of these? then sure, why not.

>>31218622
That's why you make Ice resist dangerous things like Dragon and Fairy (possibly Ghost because Ghost is frankly an incredibly powerful offensive type). But for some reason people think making Ice an even better offensive type somehow makes Ice-types a more attractive option over the many Water-types that now have an option to fuck over their brethren.

>>31218679
Sure, I can buy that.

>>31218133
mega glalie can't hold an item

N O M O V E S

>>31217614
Ice
>fast sweeper that specializes in one attack stat with moderate mixed defenses
>ice version of pre-nerf gale wings

>>31217708
>Fighting needs more defensive options
Defensive, cleric AND utility options. Running monofighting is usually go frail-fast or tanky-slow. Your utility and status options are very limited. Barely any hazards, good stall, recovery etc

>>31218302
Maleficent is also a fairy so the iron in that sword hurt her very bad as well

>>31218120
>>31218193
>>31218302

>"Ice resisting Water makes no sense thematically"
>"Because magic kill dragons."

are we still in reality right now?

>>31217708
>Chesnaught and Buzzwole are good steps in that direction
>Pidgey used Gust!

>>31217825
>Ice RESISTING Water
Hold an ice cube under a running faucet and watch what happens, idiot.You're lucky water isn't super effective against ice.

My cousins and I spent over an hour drop kicking a snowman with no results.
There is no way Ice should be weak against Fighting.

>>31220111
Trips confirms, Gamefreak has no idea what they're doing. Shut it all down.

>>31217735
>He doesn't use bulky Weavile with Avalanche
You're such a fucking stupid you know that?

>>31218183

>95

>too slow

We need to nerf speed

>>31217735

Avalanche on Abomasnow and Avalugg

STAB Iron Fist Ice Hammer on Crabominable

>>31217927
>Anything else is just dead weight currently.
Hariyama is actually becoming part of the meta in VGC of all things, which was previously the healthy meta of CHALK.

VGC17 is so fucking refreshing.

>>31220186
>My cousins and I spent over an hour drop kicking a boulder with no results.
There is no way rock should be weak against Fighting.

>>31217614
You need to make it faster, at least base 100, or give it a shit ton of priority for it to be usable.

Putting it on a slow Pokemon doesn't do anything but makes it death fodder 90% of the time.

Crabrawler should of got a better evolution. I don't even mind the design as much as it shouldn't be the same line. Just really disappointed in all of that.

>>31220274
Fighting is the superhuman type bro.

>>31220257

That's great. I remember a Hariyama in one of the gen 4 VGCs.

>>31220257
Hariyama has been a solid choice in VGC for a while now

>>31217708
Chesnaught is an awful shitmon though. You're correct about Buzzwole however.

>>31217614
Fighting doesn't need "saving" at all. It's perfectly fine as it is.

>>31217661
>>31217988
Also apply this to bug.

>>31217677
>ice is supposed to be frail
What did he mean by this?

>>31221704
I take it your best exposure to Chesnaught was in the hands of a shitter then. It's an excellent defensive mon with lots of utility given it has Spikes with reliable recovery and even Taunt.

I know it works because it has worked for me very well, on the high ladder.

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>>31218451

>medicham sucks

252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 220-261 (65.8 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

>>31217677
This
>>31218622

And also, fucking what? I'm not sure what part of the world you live in, but around here, especially right now, the ice is anything but fucking frail. I've had an easier time breaking up concrete than some of the ice around here.

Ice/Fighting is probably one of, if not the best offensive type combination in the game.

It covers 9 types, none of which overlap.

It's a shame that Crabominable isn't very good, but if the next Pokemon that comes along with the same type combo is a fast sweeper, things are gonna get crazy.

>>31223247
It's a shame that Gamefreak repeatedly insists on the slow, frail Ice-type meme.

>>31218120
Ice freezes water, asshat.
Ice should definitely resist water and receive a boost from Hail in the same way Ground and Rock receive a boost from Sandstorm.
And in FAIRY TALES the dragon always loses.
Do you guys even lore?

>Ice freezes water


Water also melts ice. If there is more water than ice, the temperature of the ice lowers to match and mix with the temperature of the water. That's just how it fucking works.

If you drop avalugg in a giant pool of water it's going to melt. Like icecubes in a glass of water. Not as fast as if you threw it in fire, but it's still going to.

Ice cubes don't freeze the water they're dropped in.

This is why ice does not resist water.

>>31225162
Actually, ice melts before water freezes. Because, you know, liquid water has a pretty high heat capacity. So no, you're still wrong.

>drop icecube in cup
>water doesn't freeze
um...wtf god? hello????

>>31217614
>Ice
Ice is like Bug. It's shit mono, but pairs really well with certain types.
All Ice needs it offensively oriented mons with dual typing. In the Almost Any Ability fan-tier, Weavile is one of less than a dozen banned mons, because when given practically any good offensive ability, it wrecks everything.

A good Freeze Dry user wouldn't go amiss either.

Also taking away Icebeam from some mono-waters, and give hail a few more toys.

>Fighting
Go back to gen V.

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>>31217825
>Ice resisting Water

Thanks for the beam, Icefags.

>>31217614
>Ice
Now resists Water, GF falls into it's senses and realizes Ice types should be fast pokémon with high offensive capabilities and stops trying to make slow defensive Ice-types

>Fighting
I think it's pretty evened out right now, not top-tier, but always handy to have. Maybe have Fairy drop the Fighting resist

>>31220171
In certain parts of Russia and Canada in the deep winter, it's so fucking cold sometimes liquid will freeze mid-stream. This goes both ways

>>31217614
Ice should resist
Ground ice dragon and

Fighting is fine
Really just needs more defensive ones that are usable ,Chesnaut Conk Hariyama and Cobalion are the only usable bulky fighting types and 2/4 ones a mention go offense most the time.

>>31225527
Yes, hence why Water is neutral against Ice.

>>31225564
GF doesn't really go that extra mile to make things as scientifically accurate to the real world, because if they were all the mushroom pokémon wouldn't be Grass-type and Rock wouldn't resist Fire while Steel is weak to it, when a lot of steel has a higher melting point than rock (although It can be argued that Steel loses strength when it gets malleable but whatever). There is also really no reason why Fairies should be completely immune to Dragon other than balance reasons. In here it's same thing, since there is a sense on Ice resisting Water and there is a need to make Ice better defensively. Hell you can even retcon Scald to be super-effective on Ice-types, kind of like a counterpart of Freeze Dry.

Ice resists Water and/Dragon...or just take away Water's resistance to Ice. I mean, Ice type isn't just
>Animal with Ice cubes taped to it
Ice type is cold;freezing type.
So, yeah just make Water and Ice totally neutral to each other.
Also, make Ice types get a 50% Sp.Def boost in Snow like Rock and Ground get in Sand.
ALSO make more fast Ice type sweepers.
Sick of fucking using Weavile.

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Post yfw ice types will NEVER get buffed and hail teams will forever stay shit.

>>31226622
>rock AND GROUND
Only rock gets the boost

>>31217614
Ice resists water, ground, grass, and flying
Fighting is fine. The only thing Fairy type did right was nerf fighting because in gen 5 that shit was BUSTED

>>31225560
>Chesnaut Conk Hariyama and Cobalion
Champ? No?

>>31217614
Ice gets a new weather - heavy snow
>halves speed of other types
>electric and fire moves gets weaker

Why is ice weak to fire guyz?

It makes no sense thematically

>ghost is immune to normal
>normal is immune to ghost
>ghost is immune to fighting
>fighting isn't immune to ghost
Defend this

Fighting needs more strategic moves
IMO a fighting physical copy of brine would be nice, a stronger copy of rock move that knocks out flying types, an attack that go first if opponent uses dark move... Shit like that

>>31218430
>fairy should've resisted dragon instead of an immune
no

>>31217708
>Fighting needs more defensive options
>>31227031
>Fighting needs more strategic moves
Agreed. What do you say about something like this?

>Type
Fighting
>Role
A defensive mon that relies on utility/support moves to bring some variety in monofighting type teams instead of the usual slow bulky tank or speedy mixed sweeper roles.
>Concept
mixture of Kabuki theatrics, oni and warrior
>Abilities
Guts, Intimidate, Provoke (HA)
Guts appears to be standard for bruiser fighting types, Intimidate due to Kabuki mask/make up, Provoke is auto-taunt ability, also due to Kabuki mask
>stat spread
HP: 105
Atk: 120
Def: 100
Sp. Atk: 45
Sp. Def: 100
Spe: 35
BST: 505
the slow speed references the slow (start) of Kabuki theatre, and so it could be of use with Trick Room, and to balance out its good bulk and good attack
>moves
nothing unique but definitely has Sucker Punch to make use of the Auto-taunt ability and to avoid overlap with priority of other fighting types (Bullet/Mach punch), Close Combat, Trick Room (again to reference the theatre movements), Healing Pulse, Helping Hand, Follow Me, Me First, Fake Out

three stage line that evolves by trading

>>31217677
There's not that much of a problem with ice as a type, it's just that there are almost no ice-type fast sweepers. Weavile is good (or at least it was) because it's great offensively, fast, and has some priority moves to back it up. Cryogonal might've been good if it had a better movepool and maybe an extra STAB. Froslass might've been good if it had more offensive presence (maybe if it spread 30 points from its Attack across SpA and speed, bring it up to 100SpA/120 speed), since it actually does have a pretty good offensive and support movepool (access to Thunderbolt, STAB Ice Beam and Shadow Ball gives it perfect neutral coverage).

Aside from that I don't think there are any ice-types above 100 base speed (aside from Weavile's pre-evo, Sneasel).

Mamoswine is one of the only slower Ice-types that's actually good, I think. Maybe Cloyster because of access to Shell Smash.

>>31227163
God this is broken

I wish this legendary trick room mon existed

>>31227166
Oh, Ninetales of course. Ninetales is actually really good if only because it can set up Aurora Veil very reliably.

>>31227177
It's not outright broken, no? Fairies can still hold their own against it since Sucker Punch hits fairies NVE. And it needs a turn to set up TR

>>31227224
I'd like it if mons with large, frozen surfaces like Avalugg and Sandslash got an ability that made it immune to water moves and boosted speed by one or two stages when hit by one, like Lightningrod. Call it 'Slippery when wet' or something.

Make Ice super effective against Bug and Fairy type and make it resist Water type.
(On that note, Bug is no longer resisted by Fighting and Ghost type)

Also, introduce a new ability for Mega-Glalie, Regice, Vanilluxe, Cryogonal, Avalugg and Alolan Sandslash called Melted Body, which changes their Ice typing and their Ice moves into Water type when they're hit by Fire type moves, this lasts until they're switched out.

Fighting is immune to Ghost type and all Fighting type attacks are more accurate when used by Fighting types.

>>31227177
Palkia should get it as normal ability
Dialga should get auto wonder room.

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>>31217614
>Fighting
It's fine.

>Ice
Icy Terrain/Deep Snow/etc that boosts Ice-type moves' power by 50% and halves the speed of non-Ice type grounded Pokémon.
Any move that has a chance to cause Freezing has that chance increased by a flat 10% while Hail is in effect.
Increase the distribution of Slush Rush
Increase the distribution of Freeze-Dry
Nerf the shit out of the distribution of Ice-type moves among Water-types. There are literally THREE Water types in the game out of almost 150 who cannot learn an Ice-type move, and one of them is Magikarp. This has been Ice's problem from the beginning, STAB isn't worth the tradeoff of just using a Water-type with much better defensive and coverage options.

Simple. Make ice resist water, grass, ice and poison. Give fighting types a weakness to ice. Ice types should be more defensively balances and not have piss poor speeds

>>31227291
>Nerf the shit out of the distribution of Ice-type moves among Water-types.

This will never happen. Water types are supposed to be versatile.

>>31217677
Ice isn't glass you twat

>>31227386
No, Normal-types are supposed to be versatile. Water is a versatile Type because there's more twice as many of them than your average Type.
There can be Water-types with Ice moves, but there's absolutely no good reason for nearly every single Water-type in the game to be packing Ice Beam and/or Blizzard.
As it stands there's almost never a reason to use an Ice-type Pokémon, because there's another Type with almost four times as many Pokémon under it who have almost all the same tools and more while being much safer to use. Not to mention how the universal access to Ice-type moves completely cripples Grass's ability to check Water, a matchup that is supposed to be part of the foundation of the Type triangle everyone has known for twenty years.

>>31227365
Ice ought to resist something besides itself but it wouldn't get a lot of benefit out of Poison and Grass is already resisted by like six or seven Types, it makes sense but at least trade it off for something.
I like Ice and Water mutually resisting each other.
Ice really doesn't need any more offensive power, if you wanted to buff it there the most sensible thing would be removing Steel's resistance to it.

In my opinion the best thing to do would be making it a more consistent check to the Types it's already strong against. Make it resist Flying or Ground, maybe even Dragon.

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>>31227565
>No, Normal-types are supposed to be versatile. Water is a versatile Type because there's more twice as many of them than your average Type.
>There can be Water-types with Ice moves, but there's absolutely no good reason for nearly every single Water-type in the game to be packing Ice Beam and/or Blizzard.
>As it stands there's almost never a reason to use an Ice-type Pokémon, because there's another Type with almost four times as many Pokémon under it who have almost all the same tools and more while being much safer to use. Not to mention how the universal access to Ice-type moves completely cripples Grass's ability to check Water, a matchup that is supposed to be part of the foundation of the Type triangle everyone has known for twenty years.

If Water wasn't supposed to be versatile then Game Freak would make damn sure that it wasn't. Water is a versatile solvent, now deal with it.

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>>31227636
>Game Freak has any idea how to balance their game
oh mate I am laffin

>>31218120
>>31225162
Ice and Water shouldn't be resistant to each other, they should just do Neutral damage to themselves, because when combining the same amount of ice and water in a container sealed from the atmosphere, both will change their temperatures into an in between (the water ends colder, and the ice warmer) until both end up turning into one single thing.

But if there were resistances, then Ice should be resistant to water when it's hailing since the atmospheric temperature will change, making the water easier to get frozen. And Water would remain resistant to Ice at Sunny Days, since Ice will melt easier.

>>31220171
>>31225315
I don't think you know how thermodynamics work.

>>31218869
I refuse to acknowledge that movie as Canon

>>31227163
this would be fantastic. I want it

I thought of something maybe. Tell me what you guys think. When a Pokemon is affected by a status effect, those moves are super effective against it now. So if a Pokemon's poisoned, poison is now super effective regardless of type, if burned it's fire, para its electric, frozen its ice. I think that would make ice certainly do something more. Also adding a "thunder wave" type move that insta freezes with like 90% accuracy. Similar to that poison gas move.

>>31227753
Also ice body mons should get no damage from ice and water attacks.
while flame body should get no damage from ice and grass

>>31227826
Freeze is still way too good for guaranteed status.
Sleep shouldn't have it either but at least Spore gives a few shitmons a good niche when Smeargle can't be used.

>>31227862
Maybe a yawn equivalent then? Something that's like "The arena begins getting colder!" and then next turn the enemy Pokemon freezes or something.

>>31217614
Great moves, shit mons.

Move on.

>dragon weak to ice

I will never understand this meme.

>>31218040
Imagine Crabominable in the next games where they fix it.
>Aqua Jet
>Ice Shard (STAB)
>Mach Punch (STAB and IF boosted)
>Bullet Punch (IF boosted)

>>31218066
And Weavile dies to Mach Punch. Your point?

>>31228820
Cold-blooded reptiles are weak to cold temperatures? What a meme

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>>31230999
>dragons
>reptiles

ice needs resistance to ground and flying, also water should stop resisting it

fighting type should loose weaknesses to fairy

>>31231006
yeah. Pretty much.

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>>31218040
>base form is literally a pistol shrimp
>no priority at all for either stage

>>31227753
Explain to us how thermodynamics works then anon.

>>31227753
Explain anon.

>>31226826
Yeah that

>>31218040
>slow
>give it all the best priority moves
>design

>>31225511
>have Fairy drop the Fighting resist
It's all I want really. I have no idea why that was instituted other than to give Fairy more coverage.

>>31231497
it's a coconut crab (they're even blue sometimes) that evolves into a yeti crab, dude. both are real species. it's not a pistol shrimp. it's not any kind of shrimp.

>>31227753
Ice cubes under running water is exactly what's happening here. Water types can produce seemingly infinite streams of water, pumping heat into Ice types with wild abandon. How the fuck do you get from pokemon battles to ice and water in an atmosphere-sealed container?

Ice types resist Ice moves because they're not afraid of getting cold. This logic makes sense! Freezing incoming water so it doesn't hurt them doesn't make any god damned sense.

Not to mention that water types are extremely likely to be resistant to colder temperatures by their very nature.

>>31227831

Ice being Immune to ice would be interesting. Help out mons that are nuetral to it like Mamoswine or Articuno.

Id give ice resistance to dragon. GF fucked up making nothing resist it in gen 1 and only steel resist it from 2-5.

Also I'd make rock resist ice and electric.

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>>31218302

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>>31218302
>>31234933

>>31217677
A fucking block of ice sank Titanic

>>31235002
To be fair, temperature changes made the hull brittle and most of the ice was hidden.

>>31234080
Kek. Fuck no. Fighting is fine and needed the extra weakness to balance it out.

>>31234080

Agreed

>>31234951
Pretty interesting until
>we can forgive Disney since D&D didn't exist yet when Sleeping Beauty was made

What was the point of this entire thing?

Fighting on its own isn't all that bad, it's just the victim of circumstance, and that circumstance is that the meta just got injected with its kryptonite.

Ice's problem is that they keep making shitty Ice types. The defensive mold is a complete mismatch for Ice.

>>31235142
Speculation, for fun.

>>31235193
I guess my point is they should've just left that line until the very end since it could be applied to the entire thing. It was an interesting read though, thanks anon.

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>>31218015
>choice band iron fist ice hammer off of that attack
now if only he wasn't as slow as vikavolt

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My attempt at re-balancing.

Ice loses fighting weakness, gains ground resist
Water gains poison weakness
Steel loses grass resist
Rock now resists itself

>>31237558>
>Water gains a Poison weakness

What the fuck is this?

>>31237558
I LIKE IT!

>>31237558
>steel loses grass resist
But that doesnt make any sense

>>31237611
have you ever tried to take poison out of water?

>>31237642
If given enough time grass overcomes metal things. Look at old fence posts. Water + grass = metal is gone.

>>31237611
Masuda pls

>>31237686
That's Iron, not steel

Steel will literally resist grass for millenia, stainless steel even resists water, it only rusts due to shit like oxygen and some chemicals

>>31237686
given enough time fire will burn anything thus everything is at least neutral to fire

>>31217825
>nerfing Bug

STOP
T
O
P

>>31237642
>But that doesnt make any sense
Steel loses its Grass resistance in an attempt to make Grass not as terrible offensively; even after this nerf it’s still the type with the most resists. Might not make the most sense but grass needs something for how many weaknesses it has.
>>31237611
Pollution can spread very fast in the water. With only 2 weaknesses and a plethora of reliable attacks and recovery moves, Water is one of the best types in the game. It needed to be taken down a peg, especially bulky water/fairy types.

>>31237845
>plethora of recovery moves
Like...?

>>31237845
>grass is shit
its not shit offensively, it's alright offensively. if you wanna make grass good make it resist more shit, like lose the ice weakness

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>>31218677

>>31237910
Why run a sun team when sunlight makes grass types take more damage from fire?

>>31237845
>Water is one of the best types in the game.

And? Best does not equal overpowered.

>>31237845
>recovery moves

Like what?! Aqua Ring? Kek.

>>31237845
>It needed to be taken down a peg

It doesn't NEED TO anything.

>>31237986
there isnt sun teams are trash

>>31237910
Grass is shit offensively and better defensively. It needs to hit fairies super effectively.
>>31237845
Sounds like Fairy-types are more of an issue. A lot of bulky waters have been used less and less, it's the Fairies that validated shit like Azumarill. You're focusing on the wrong thing.

>>31235017

>temperature changes made the hull brittle
>most of the ice was hidden
>mass somehow changes density

[citation needed]

>>31238112
>nerfing fairy
good, fuck fairy

Why does water resist fire? Fire makes water evaporate and it cooks fish.

>>31238014
>Best does not equal overpowered.
It kinda does, especially when water is the most common type.
Not to mention abilities like Water Absorb, Hydration and Swift Swim. Chlorophyll and Leaf Guard aren't as useful on grass types considering sunlight increases their fire weakness. I put grass types on my rain team instead.

>>31238392
I think that's more of an issue on how Gamefreak deals with weather rather than the type itself. They could easily tweak weather to be more beneficial to certain types.

>>31238392
>It kinda does, especially when water is the most common type.

No, it kinda doesn't.

>>31238607
Why not? Although water being really common does give it its healthy amount of shitmons.

>>31237558
>Water resists Steel
I never understood this

>Grass neutral to Steel
No, there are better places to buff Grass offensively and most of the Steel/Ground/Rock types have enough matchup problems as it is
Make Psychic neutral to Steel instead. Or even make it or Electric super-effective, psychics bending spoons has been a design element in the series from the start. I know Steel was intended to nerf Psychic but that's definitely not necessary anymore.

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>>31227166
I will never understand why Froslass has same Atk as S. Atk.

>>31237894
Starmie, Quagsire, Corsola, Milotic, Gastrodon, Jellicent, Toxapex and Pyukumuku get recover.
Ludicolo gets Synthesis.
Slowbro gets Slack Off.
Vaporeon gets Wish.
Pelipper and Swanna gets Roost.

90% of them (Swanna is trash) are bulky mons with a reliable recovery move among other shits like Scald.

>>31238112
>Grass is shit offensively and better defensively. It needs to hit fairies super effectively.
Nah, it needs to resist or be immune to fairy. Fairies wouldn't wan to hurt the forest.

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>>31217661
I'm going to punch your vagina

>>31239187
You do realize that that's because of the Pokemon itself and not the typing right? Roost is given to pretty much every Flying-type in the game, Synthesis to a lot of Grass-types in the game. Wish exists because of Eevee and Slack Off is definitely not something that's Water-type exclusive but rather something that fits the Slowpoke line itself.

You'd have an argument with Recover but most of those mons are still in the minority and are not really amazing anymore because of power creep outside of niche shit.

This is more like false equivalency than anything else. Most Pokemon that learn those recovery moves are decidedly not Water-type.

>>31239210
Fuck your themes, Fairy is a shit typing introduced in an attempt to balance the types and completely failed at it. Grass-types need an offensive buff, have them hit Fairy-types which are defensively very powerful.

>>31238186
Titanic was an inside job.