The Great Debate

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>>31139355
Cameron

BURASUTO BAAN

>>31139355
They're both based. Anyone who BTFO's Ash is cool in my book.

I'm still salty about Alain and Elle.

>>31139355
>crushing ash's pokemon's dreams
vs
>crushing greninjafags dreams

>Tobias sent out Latios!
DORAGON

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>>31139405
>Used mons that are 4x weak against the opponent. 4X WEAKNESS
>Didn't read the rules, didn't even have full team
>Still won somehow
The fuck was they smoking when they wrote that shit??

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>>31139473
Me too, but Elle was fine.

>>31139488
I wasn't mad about Alain or Tobias.
But Cameron, there is nothing redeeming about that time. Unnova was worst League by far.

>>31139488
Best Wishes as a whole was a fucking disaster

>>31139355
Tobias fight. You know Ash is completely fucked but he still puts on a good fight.

Alain fight was obviously built up with the writers wanting Ash to win, but had to change it last minute due to executive meddling.

>>31139355
Darkrai sweeps Alain's team alone tbqh.

>>31139687
>weavile used brick break!

>>31139639
>Ashcucks are so retarded they don't realise that if Ash won he would've become the next Tobias, thus Alain deserved the win.

>>31139355
I thought it was kinda cool to see Ash going up against legendaries with his B team and being the only person to take down the Darkrai and not be swept

>>31139725
Not really. He'd just train new Pokemon.

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>>31139455
is he the best pokeanime character of all time?

>>31139355
Both are wonderful characters. Tobias is my absolute favorite though, as he is a God amongst humans; shame we most likely won't see anything about him anymore.

Tobias was there to show trainers in the anime could capture legendary Pokémon.
Plus that there was an entire tier above than just winning the league.

Alan was there to JUST Ash.

Tobias > Alan
Only fault of Tobias is that he wasn't given a backstory.

>>31139899
>Tobias was there to JUST Ash.
Ftfy

I mean they just made this character on the spot solely because Ash was too strong. Alain was completely separate until they decided to roll him into XY&Z.

>>31139355
Tobias is bullshit and exemplifies what's wrong with the Pokemon anime.

>>31139714
Fucking Heracross Megahorn didn't bring that fucker down, Weavile wouldn't do shit

>>31140139
Why?
Explain

>>31139749
It was fucking stupid that heracross didn't get the KO against darkrai though

>>31140906
Just goes to show how strong Legendaries are. It's something that's always been emphasized in the anime.

>>31139899
Ash = normie player
Paul = competitive player
Tobias = real player

>>31139476
I hate greninja and greninjafags so I really like Alan.

>>31139780
That's not Gary Motherfucking Oak.

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If it comes to a battle, we know Alain will win. He has luck on his side.

>>31139355
So if Tobias had Darkrai and Latios, and if we assume he Also has Cresselia and Latias, what would his last two legendaries be?

>>31139488
This. It's one thing to lose against an incredibly good trainer. But Cameron was such complete shit it's embarrassing

>>31140906
Eh, their are legendary,so it's make sense

>>31141182
Yeah, for one Paul actually accomplished something

>>31139899
I thought he was just some faggot who used an action replay

>>31139488
Even though I wish ash won against Alan he was still a likeable character with a cool team and the fight was fucking fantastic

Tobias was just lazy writing

>>31139780
If he didn't bring a team full of jobbers (sans electivire and drapion) he would've torn ash a new asshole

>>31139355
First they make Ash too strong, then they realize he's still not strong enough to beat Paul, so they take away Paul's stronger Pokemon to give him a bunch of jobbers, then they realize Ash is too strong to lose now, so they make Tobias. What the fuck was up with Sinnoh League?

>>31141019
>Paul is a "competitive player"
>puts thunder on electivire
>fury cutter on ninjask
>clear smog on magmortar
>ice beam on weavile

>>31141266
Probably some other minor legendary duo

I think some people theorized he had an entei and lucario as well because both were seen in the intro

>>31140445
> No context or story behind character
> the equivalent of an Action Replay in the anime

If they gave him a story he'd be okay, but they didn't and he was there just to tear Ash a new one.

>>31142793
I liked his ninjask and aggron but who the fuck brings frosslass and gastrodon to the quarter finals

>>31142866
I was especially angry he didn't bring his starter, Torterra, and his Ursaring. Even his Honchkrow was pretty based. Yet, we got a fucking Gastrodon.

>>31142914
Infernape would've torn ursaring a new one

He already did that as a chimchar


TWICE

Paul's team shouldve been
Torterra
Electivire
Magmortar
Drapion
Honchkrow
Weavile/Ursaring/Aggron/Ninjask

>>31142866
Well Cynthia's team in the anime is probably her DP team so her

I don't dislike Tobias.

Ash' DP anime character arc was done aka blow the fuck out of Paul. There was an arc, it was built up, and was given a satisfying conclusion. Anything else after it was a bonus.

He was bullshit? Of course. He was a last minute plot device to cockblock Ash from the league? For sure. He was doomed to lose? Certainly. But despite losing, all that fight did was make Ash look good because he was LITERALLY the only person in ALL OF SINNOH who could beat Darkrai. And on top of that when Tobias sends Latios out of nowhere that no one ever knew existed Ash sends Pikachu and Pikachu fucking soloes it (to a draw).

Ash lost? Sure. Did it also make you think "Ash may have lost the league but this proves he's a fucking awesome trainer and he has grown up".

I also don't dislike Alan either.

He was a good character, with his own character arc, motivations, goals, etc. And likewise his rivalry with Ash had proper build-up. He was not a rival out of nowhere like 99% of Ash league defeats.

You can mock animefags all you want but if you are even the slightest bit familiar with anime you could easily see all the flags that had been triggered for Ash league victory. Why do you think there was such a commotion over Ash winning the league this time when there wasn't any the past years? Do you think animefags did it for free? No. All the signs were there. Ash was at his most competent, with his strongest (regional) team, with a special snowflake frog, with no other sub-plot or character arc shown but the league this time. And last but not least all the hype over forg and the super duper special red shuriken that even got a youtube video hyping it.

How could people not believe that Ash was gonna win this time?

But sadly, old bitter executives that only believe in the status quo are stronger than all that. You know something went wrong when even the anime staff was complaining about the league loss on Twitter.

>>31142866
>gastrodon

Nigga, there was a time when Gastrodon was OU.

>>31142981
He pretty damn strong though. He only really lost to Chimchar. I remember him taking down three of Ash's Pokemon, including his Pikachu, all on his own before going down against Chimchar.

>>31142811
>implying anime moves and games moves go by the same rules

>>31143037
All things were in Ash's favor in Kalos League, I agree, but people were being too sure. His opponent was hyped up just as much as he was. They even gave him his own specials, where he did all sorts of ridiculous shit. Paul couldn't do anything against the Regis or Cynthia, but Alan fought and didn't lose against Mega Fug and Primal Groudon, and took down an E4 with ease.

Yes, all things pointed towards Ash winning, but there was still a good chance he'd lose.

Mega Charizard X > Dakrai => Latios >100% accurate guillotine spam Bisharp > rest of Alan's team

>>31143178
>Alan fought and didn't lose against Mega Fug and Primal Groudon
I'm pretty sure both those blew the fuck out of Edgezard.

>and took down an E4 with ease.
Malva was not even trying that time. It's still an accomplishment though, yeah.

>>31143178
Alan's Zard X didn't stand a chance again Rayquaza, Groudon and Kyogre. Steven had to go out there and save his dumb ass and even then they BARELY escaped with their lives.

>>31143195
>Malva was not even trying that time
>pulling shit out of your ass

>>31143195
>I'm pretty sure both those blew the fuck out of Edgezard.
It's been brought up a lot, and I checked it myself, but Zard actually didn't even faint after getting it with Precipice Blades. And he also took a direct Dragon Ascent from Mega Fug, the same move that took down Primal Groudon.

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>ash will never win a league in our lifetime

>>31143297
Orange Island

>>31143274
>Alan's Zard X didn't stand a chance again Rayquaza, Groudon and Kyogre.
It didn't win, yes, but it also managed to survive all of those battles. It fought Primal Groudon one-on-one for more than a few minutes, and even got in a few hits and didn't lose.

>>31143351
>I rate the Orange Juice League

>>31142783
But he didn't and he lost

>>31142914
because he anticipated Ash would have had a strategy against them, so he brought a team of new mons sans Electawire

>>31143037
>with no other sub-plot or character arc shown but the league this time

Yeah, just that organization known as Team Flare who set their plain in motion at the league because that's where everyones eyes were gonna be

The league played second fiddle to the evil team arc in XY, as evidenced by the fact that Tomioka, the head writer, wrote all final Team Flare episodes while not writing the Ash vs Alan league match.

>>31143297
Most likely win a league once the series is coming to an end.

>>31143284
Yeah, but it was stated it was near death in the episode itself.

>>31143297
>>>Still beats the battle frontier

>>31141019

>Ash = normie player
>Paul = competitive player
>Tobias = i dont give a shut cuz my team is full on 6 legends

So,technically Tobias is a fucking cheater faggot