>Ash-Greninja is A+ >Protean is A How.

>50 more attack and SpA
>10 more Speed

vs

>Gimmicky type changer

>>31083944
Faster with strong priority

>>31083944
MOTTO

>>31083944
Minimum base 60 water priority that breaks subs, plus having mega stats while still holding an item.

>>31083978
>what is same type attack bonus

[muffled iku z in the distance]

>>31083944
Megazard X is dropping in usage so the only reliable check to Ash-Greninja isn't being used.

>>31083944
Choice Specs.
Imagine a 153 SpA Pokemon using 120 BP Water-type move with STAB and Choice Specs.

Either way, I'd say Protean Greninja is still better, because Ash-Greninja requires set up.

>>31084038
ecks dee very original jok

>>31084046
>120 BP water move

What?

>>31084065
Fuck, 110. 4 years, and I still make this mistake.

>>31084050
IDK, anon, I smiled. The concept wasn't original, but the execution was cute.

>>31084001
Ash-greninja water/dark moves hit harder obviously, but protean is good for coverage i guess.

>>31083944

Choice Specs Ash-Greninja is what Keldeo wishes it was.

>>31084065
Ash Greninja with Hydropump demolishes anything neutral to it aside from de blob and if you give it rain it begins chunking even things that resist it.

Ash Ninja in rain is terrifying. Water Shuriken oneshots things like Xurk and Koko.

>>31083993
MOTTO

Usage is inflated because pre-bank. Also
>Smogon

>>31084105
>Ash literally could have going for Goodra rain dance + Ash-Greninja to sweep everything

Fucking hell.

>>31084112
TSUYOKU

>>31084098
Greninja wishes he had a special stab that hit on the physical side

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>>31084028
woh woh woh yeah

>>31084137
This. I would've loved for Alain to sweep Ash's entire team with Guillotine spam.

>>31084105
>Ash Greninja with Hydropump demolishes anything neutral to it aside from de blob and if you give it rain it begins chunking even things that resist it.
>but it missed!
The end.

>>31084001
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 164-192 (48 - 56.3%)

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja-Ash Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 144-170 (42.2 - 49.8%)

Protean isn't THAT much stronger for coverage. Anyways, there's a staggering difference when it comes to its primary STAB.

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 199-235 (58.3 - 68.9%)

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 265-312 (77.7 - 91.4%)

Pair this up with +10 Spe and one of the best priority moves in the game, you end up with an excellent mid-late game sweeper.

>>31084133
The ranking is based on the post-bank meta, anon.

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>>31084145
IKU Z GEKKOUGA

>>31084133
>Phoxfags on damage control after they swore up and down it would be shit

/vp/ is truly a wonderful world.

>>31084133
I barely even play Smogon, but even I know that their newest ratings for OU are literally all post-bank. How retarded are you?

>>31084170

>80% accuracy

Only a 20% chance of missing

>>31084223
>Only a 100% chance of missing when you really need it

Fixed

>>31084223
>He's never missed 5 Hydro Pumps in a row
hownuru

>>31084223
If its not 100% accuracy its 0% accuracy

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>/vp/ actually thought it will be shit and outclased by protean

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>>31084195
Phoxfags should just accept that their husband will be better competitively than they are.

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>>31084186
Gekkouga sentou funou!

>>31084254
This, anything less than 100% is just not worth using, Stone Miss sometimes if it's tyranitar.

>>31084185
>Priority moves in a Tapu Lele Meta

>>31084278

The extra power is worth the lower accuracy. It's often the difference between you OHKOing the opponent, and them surviving and OHKOing you.

lrn2play

>>31083944
>what if we gave Keldeo coverage, priority, and even more speed

>>31084306
The extra 20% accuracy is the difference between you getting damage off and not being able to revenge kill because they'll survive the next move. There are reasons to run either and it's usually a tech choice on most mon

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>there are people who would rather run Dragon Pulse over Draco Meteor because they're that autistic about the slight chance of a miss

GEE GRENINJA WHY DOES GAME FREAK LET YOU HAVE TWO OVER POWERED ABILITIES?

>>31084383
I think it has more to do with having to swap out to get rid of the debuff from D-Meteor.

>>31084400

You were going to swap out anyway, so it doesn't matter

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>>31084386
Protean isnt over powered greninja was fine till gunk shot

>>31084410
That's outrage, not Draco Meteor. People will go for double and triple meteor

I legitimately have 0 clue of how people actually let this thing mega evolve. Is it offense tards who have 0 bulky pokemon to keep it as normal Greninja?

>>31084610
You bring it out on an already weakened pokemon in order to make them reconsider leaving their weakened pokemon out to die to get a safer switch-in.

>>31084610

>What are teammates
>What is picking off a weakened foe

>>31083944
I dunno. Protean is the ultimate coverage threat to put in the anchor position in singles.

>>31084710
One's an anchor, the other is a late game sweeper. They have different roles and that's probably what they're being judged on, as opposed to head-to-head

>>31084724
I want to use a team that has both Ash-Greninja and Protein Greninja

>>31084724

This, you play Ash-Greninja in a completely different way than Protean Greninja

>>31084610
Waiting until it can clean.
Having wall-breakers to weakened shit for it.
Choice specs allow it to drop Powerfull shit even before transforming.

it's not the best against stallfags, but once it's transform.. only the blob can block it's shit up.

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>>31084269
Fuck off

>>31084610
Slow pivots into Greninja gives them the choice of giving it the transformation or switching out and losing 30-60% on a Dark Pulse

>>31084793
I think they should allow it desu
Data-wise they are different pokemon
also, think of the M I N D G A M E S

>>31084610
>>31084653
U-Turn or Volt Switch with someone
I've been using Tapu Koko

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>MFW
>I get my Ash-Greninja
>It's timid

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>>31083944
>this is better than a Greninja changing its types
Surprised?

Best partners for Ash-Greninja?

>>31084285
>Greninja used Hydro Pump!

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>>31084277
NO
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7customgame-503402351

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>>31085217
Fucking Alan.

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>>31084186
>using a tiny version
pls.

>>31085094
Garchomp

>>31084185
I know Water Shuriken gets a BP boost while in Ash-form. Does this put the acerage damage up to Hydro Pumps level, or not?

>>31084610
In a way, this is actually an advantage. It makes people play ultra-conservatively and prioritize not letting it transform. In more than one match I've played, the damage a player took while avoiding the Greninja transformation was honestly equal, if not greater to the damage they would have taken if they just foddered something and revenged it properly.

>>31084939
>Protean Greninja, Ash-Greninja, and Zoroark on the same team
>Is it trying to just sweep me with crazy Stab moves, is it trying to KO something and sweep, or is it all a ruse to lure out and eliminate my only Greninja counter?

>>31088503

Water Shuriken's BP is boosted to 20 as Ash-Greninja, and it always hits 3 times.

So, 60 BP.

Add STAB and it becomes 90 BP.