Competitive thread Pic related are the Smogon OU viability rankings

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>>31067665
My stall team

The only thing I changed was putting Haze on Toxapex over Baneful Bunker. I was getting swept too often and Haze would've been so useful.

>mfw someone called me a "beta bitch" and that they would "stomp me to the ground" for using this team on Showdown

I love salty tears.

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>>31067665
>Clefable is still used an absolute shitton
I'm rather happy about my cancerbro being viable, but why? Was the Fairy typing that much of a buff?

>>31067781
i'm actually considering using this kind of team because i keep losing with offense

any tips on stall?

>>31067665
so what happened to make megagross and megazam so much better now

i figure megagross is better now since it checks the new fairy-types

>>31067837
yes
>>31067858
don't
it's not worth it
don't go to the dark side

>>31067837
unaware/magic guard ability is fantastic.
calm mind clef can sweep teams and fairy doesn't have many super eff types against it.

poison and steel are not common moves in OU, so it really is a great OU mon

>>31067872
megagross is much better now due to the influx of fairies (lele, bulu) and also the influx of ultra beasts (phero, buzzwole, nihilego)

megagross straight up OHKO's them all either with zen headbutt or meteor mash

so it's much, much more useful now.

>>31067781

three of your moms are weak to electric, one to fairy, and one to flying. tapu koko with electric stab, brave bird; and dazzling gleam can beat your team.

you should probably replace roserade with amoongus or tangrowth, and replace slowbro with unaware quagsire which can help and provide an electric immunity.

>>31067781
what does slowbro contribute to this team

>>31067973

*unaware quagsire can help with the sweepers that give you trouble and providers an electric immunity

>>31067858
Hard to explain, you just kind of become familiar on how to use it.

However, make sure that you don't make unnecessary risks.
Crazy predictions are not advised with stall, as 9/10 you just don't need to make them.

Prioritize getting hazards up at all costs, this is key.
If the opponent has a hazard remover, say for instance a Fini, make sure to switch into your counter for it, which in my case is Roserade EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Do not let them get a defog off for free, bring in roserade and pressure them with sludge bomb or more likely just set up another spike.

Always keep up the pressure on the hazard removal pokemon, that is the #1 rule.
Because once the hazard remover is gone, you can spike stack and literally win.

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Creating Sinnoh teams for myself. Don't know why I chose Ambipom, should probably just use Lopunny.

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put my team in a pic to take up less space
i need a better lele counter and more ground resists i think, but grassy terrain might cover that

>>31067973
yeah i agree, i would absolutely go with amoonguss but for two reasons:

a) I'm playing pre bank OU ladder and amoonguss is only available through bank

b) amoonguss does not get spikes and hazard stacking is the cornerstone of my team. i need spikes on roserade AND skarm to pressure tapu fini which is a common defogger.

Also, yes, my team would be weak to tapu koko if it carried the moveset you said.
However in my experience in high ladder OU (I'm ranked #15 on the ladder atm) literally 2% of people run Brave Bird.

I'm not joking, almost no one runs Brave Bird.
If people start to realise and start running Brave Bird more often, I will absolutely change my team up a bit, but until then, I'm keeping it the same.

Also, you're 100% correct with Quag over Slowbro, unfortunately Quag is only available through Pokebank.

>>31067982
it's max def bold. i'd use quagsire over it but for the above.

>>31068027
i'd use mega metagross over gengar desu

>>31068095
>it's max def bold. i'd use quagsire over it but for the above.

yeah but what does it do that you wouldn't get from toxapex or stingulor?

>>31068024
your team is going to get absolutely rekt in OU.

if you're playing for fun then that's cool, but if you want to play competitively it's going to be trashed on in mid to high ladder.

>>31068131
my toxapex is max spdef.
so my slowbro offers a max defensive wall that my pex does not.

>>31067858

the idea is to have a reliable answer to every major risk you can face. you want your pokemon's checks, counters, and resistances to complement each other, like how msableye can beat the fighting types that threaten chansey.

prioritize healing over dealing damage. you want your Pokemon to be healthy enough to be able to switch in to threats later. hence, you'll want a heal bell user and a way to reliably heal your pokemon.

since stall mons have mediocre offenses and will spend a considerable amount of time keeping healthy, passive damage through status, hazards, and things like Rocky helmet are important. stall forces your opponent to make a lot of switches to beat the Pokemon you have out, so hazards are a significant source of damage and you want to keep them up. you'll also be switching a lot with a stall team, so hazard control is important.

you'll also need a way to beat msableye because msableye beats stall

>>31067781
I can't really see how your team deals with opposing Mega Sableye. Also really weak to Tapu Lele.

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>>31068024
I also made a Sinnoh team! Just now actually. Based on my ingame team. I'll most likely ending up replacing Dusknoir with a better ghost type, but who know, maybe it'll do good.

>>31068205
>weak to Tapu Lele

Chansey. I just toxic it and softboiled stall, and that's even it carries Psyshock.

>>31068095

I actually only ever play monotype and am probably not qualified to give advice to you about OU. I didn't realize you were #15 on the ladder and I assumed you were a shitter, so I thought my advice would be more merited

>>31068205
my way of beating sableye is literally just stalling it out unfortunately.

that's the nature of stall.
if i can get a toxic spike or spike up as he switches the sableye in and out then that's even better.

>>31068204
>prioritize healing over dealing damage

This is arguably the golden rule of stall.
Always heal up first, hazards do the damage to your opponent typically, not moves.

>>31067872
megazam is buffed by the mega speed thing

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>>31068165
Yeah its just for fun, mostly for Wifi battles shenanigans.
>>31068216
Yeah I love the Sinnoh region, this is my other team but I bored of it... But I'm very interested in that Empoleon, Roserade, and Magnezone <3

>>31068027
What's the purpose behind your marowak EV spread?

>>31068370
max spdef/good hp balks everything
16 atk really doesn't matter i should give that to hp

>>31067781
stall is fucking boring and for fags with no skill

Is HP Fire a necessity on Top Lel?

>>31068409
second question, why no roost on gliscor?

>>31068450
no not really
it is useful though

>>31068447

>stall is for fags with no skill

how is skill less involved in stall than other play styles?

>>31068495
>click toxic
>click heal
>win

>>31067858
This is a good example of a typical game for me, but maybe with me getting less hazards up than I would like.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-506595339

Also this one:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-506592665

I'm actually surprised I won this one because my teams normally gets BTFO by Tail Glow xurkitree.

Notice I'm beating high ladder people in both of these games.
If you know how to use stall effectively, you will win consistently.

On my alt account, I'm even higher on the ladder. This account I'm like #27, but on my other I'm #15.

Where's Xurkitree? Is he not good enough for OU? Or did it get sent to Ubers?

>>31067872
Turn order is determined after mega-evolving now. They don't have to wait a turn to get their new speeds.

>>31068547
unlisted B-

>>31068502
If you think that's all stall is you are a shitter.
Ask actually good players, and, although they might hate it, they will always say stall is a legitimate playstyle that requires skill like all other playstyles.

Don't get mad at other people using playstyles you don't like.

Also
>toxic can hit every Pokemon in existence
No.

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You guys think best slug has a chance to see usage?

>>31068654
Yes, with Tapu Koko running around, Gastro is a great option

>>31068654
I use best slug all the time. Make sure to use east for increase win ratio

>>31068690
>east
Disgusting, westfag here.

Set? Interested in what you use.

>>31068095
>Also, you're 100% correct with Quag over Slowbro, unfortunately Quag is only available through Pokebank.
How about Gastrodon?

So is it possible to make a decent (doesn't have to be super duper amazing) OU team without using legendaries/tapus/UBs or are the terrains and shit too much to skip out on.

>>31068803
Yeah, I have a fucking shuckle for sticky web sweeps and am at 1300. Only UB I use is xurk. Haven't even touched a tapu yet in all honesty.

>>31068803
yes, very possible

I dont play much but how is a-marowak popular?

>>31068848
Walls MANY COMMON threats, hits pretty hard

>>31068848
anti-meta mon

>>31068829
>>31068837

What would you go with out of that list? I'm thinking something like M-Metagross/one of the Greninjas/Ferrothorn or Skarmory/A-Marowak/a special wall + something else.

I'm fairly unknowledgable about the current metagames.

>>31068928
all of those are good, go battle bond over protean usually.

>>31068928
If you're just starting just karenfag for a bit and exeriment, see what works and what doesn't. Adjust and change until you form ateam you're confident with.

Don't not use OU mon because they're OU, they're OU for a reason.

>>31068996
Fug

Didn't mean to do that.

>>31068771
meh gastro has poor defence and doesn't have an ability like unaware to make up for it.

although gastro would be good for volt switching it just isnt defensive enough

slowbro has 110 def
gastro 68

>>31068996
Yeah I tend to pick one or two Pokemon I like and try to build around them, in this case Metagross and Greninja. The teams I put together usually have a bad weakness to EQ (and to a lesser extent Electric).

>>31068829
>1300

that isn't good lmao, and the reason you are at 1300 is because you haven't used tapus/legendaries/ub's

so in effect
>>31068803
no, you cant make a decent team without at least one of them.
you need at least one to make it a decent team. you are just losing out.

>>31069103
Straight up wrong.

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Building a team around my bro Greninjash. how does it look?

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Substitute

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 128 Atk / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Bone
- Flare Blitz
- Bonemerang
- Will-O-Wisp

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 192 Def / 16 SpD / 52 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Taunt
- Defog

Landorus-Therian @ Earth Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

how can i improve it? I really want to fuck shit up while going IKU Z

>>31069117
LMAO
please friend, show me your ELO, i'm happy to be proved wrong.

either you use stall like me, or you have to use at least one of UB's/legendaries on your team in order to win consistently.

i love when low ELO players pretend they know how the meta is.

I'm ranked top 15

>>31069103
This guy >>31067781 is #15 on the ladder with no Tapus, UBs, or Legends.
You're objectively wrong.

>>31069159
you want to prove that? (^:

Man, I haven't seeb Buzzwole much on ladder, so I tried a bulky offense team with M-Scizor, Celesteela and Buzzwole as my core and holy shit its great
Leech life+beast boost and AV is fantastic

>>31069243
Seems really weak to fire. What do you use to take care of that?

>>31067665
Why is Buzzwole so high?

Does anyone have a good recommendation for a Stealth Rock setter for doubles? I'm planning on letting it set up so my Magnezone can take out Tapu Lele.

>>31069355
sub buzzwole is a threat.
buzzwole destroys stall.

also generally a hard hitter

>>31069448
Hazards suck in doubles.

>>31069525
Would there be a better alternative, then? I prefer a bulkier set up for Magnezone and Arcanine, so Choice items aren't really an option for me. I've been using Nugget Bridge to calculate damage and Stealth Rock helps cover the small amount of damage that can secure an OHKO.

>>31069278
Right now, Garchomp
But to be fair though, are there any real big fire threats in the meta save for Marowak?
When pokebank comes out I'll have to rethink this team because heatran is such a pain in the ass but as of now it works great

What happened to Mantine this gen?

>>31069668
roost and +20 base hp

>>31069689
Oh sweet.

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Together forever

>>31069733
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26J0uDIGErM

Is there a teambuilder for Gen7 pre-bank that hides non Gen7 stuff? Unless I'm retarded and missed the option, Showdown makes me try something then validate it to find out if its legal or not.

karenfag here
how can i use in incineroar competitively, has anyone made him work?

>>31068555
Is M-Banette still crap though?

>>31070154
wait for its HA to come out then
@ Orb
- Blitz
- Darkest Wrassle
- Leech Life
- Chop

>>31070244
m-banette does not exist and yes

>>31070154
incineroar is still not good. he's outclassed by everything in almost every way.

once it gets intimidate, it'll be a solid RU mon that can punish hard with a possible choice or LO set.

>>31070244
Yep. M-banette's speed is shit to begin with, the only thing the change helped were mons like megazam, megadactyl, etc that get a big boost in speed.

I can't even remember if M-Bane's in the game.

>>31070244
Yes but not as much unless you include power creep in which case yes but even more so.

>>31070283
is that cross chop, dual chop, throat chop or karate chop

also what do you hit with leech life that isn't hit harder by lariat or cross chop

>>31070339
The change helps M-Banette in the sense that now it can actually get Prankster on the turn it digivolves.

Sableye is unhappy though because now he can't have Prankster AND Magic Bounce on the same turn.

>>31070352
Cross. And nothing really but you can poke stuff with it for HP or replace it with something like Earthquake or U-Turn.

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>>31068576
>not using superior eviolite salandit stall

>>31069243
Roost + 3 attacks buzzy is also fantastic. Try lunge instead of leech life, since you already have reliable recovery and the two moves have the same BP.

Where's the complete banlist for OU? They still have the "No description for this format yet" shit on its page.

>>31067665
>Starmie STILL in OU after surviving 6 whole generations
What went right?

>>31068479
ability while poisoned heals for it

>>31070401
The change helps, but Mega-Banette was also nerfed because of the Prankster and Destiny Bond changes, so it's still pretty ass.

How long until we know if Genesect passed/failed the suspect test?

>>31070588
that's not OU, that's a viability ranking in OU. a mon can be viable in OU without being OU itself, like Alakazam, Stingulor, or Gyarados in Gen 6.

the real surprise is A-Muk being there at all, much less in the same tier as Gyarados, Hippo, Serperior and Volcanion

>>31067665
tfw Genesect is being suspected and Lele will be next according to this picture, instead of Celesteela, Landorus-T or Mega Metagross.

What an ugly place Smogon is. Overthrow the corrupt council.

>>31070559
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-banlist.3587177/

>>31070746
Like 2 weeks.

>>31070779
How is that a surprise? Amazing defensive typing with only one 2x weakness, good special bulk, and an excellent ability to go with physical poison STABs. Checks fairies and psychics which are everywhere in OU

>>31070843
>Celesteela, Landorus-T and Megagross being anywhere near as cancerous as scarfed Lele
Nah

>>31070879
Yeah, keep sucking stalls dick. Who's next after Gene and Lele? I'd bet Mega Metagross but I'm pretty sure someone will say something about Greninja having a wide movepool because they can't predict shit / muh stall.

Free Sweepers.

>>31070843
>Celesteela
Soooooooooo many common counters my dude. If you don't have at least one on your team, you're doing it wrong. ex. Porygon Z, A-Marowak, Magnezone, etc.
>Landorus-T
4x weakness to ice
>Mega Metagross
Eh maybe.

>>31070974
>still assmad about stall
literally just hit stuff
it's rock paper scissors

HO beats Stall
Stall beats Mid
Mid beats HO

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>>31070843
>Not wanting to ban Lele
>Wanting to ban its best counter
I wonder who could be behind this

>>31070974
You do know greninja punishes offense much more heavily than stall, right? Greninja can't do shit against stallmons.

When will we be smart and implement Item Clause?

With all the items we have, it's only obvious to include it so we add more thought to the teams. This isn't GSC, we have a whole lot of items to choose from.

>>31070859
poison touch is not an "excellent ability", nor is Poison/Dark an "Amazing" defensive typing desu

>>31070843
>doesnt want Lele to be banned
>wants Clelesteela and Mega Metagross to be banned, two of the very few pokemon that can deal with Lele
Something tells me you're a Lelefag.

>>31071029
>>31071073
Lele can deal with those two. It's the whole reason she'll get banned, she has no counter. Now, if the council reconsiders the Aegislash ban...

These viability rankings are retarded. Mega Sableye should be at the top. All you need to know is, most viable is any stall team and with any non-stall team you're begging to lose.

>>31071070
Poison touch is a pretty good ability and poison/dark is a good defensive typing when a bunch of top threats are psychics

>>31071103
AEGISLASH IS EVEN MORE BROKEN
JUST BAN BOTH OF THEM

>>31071113
this is correct

>>31071118
The problem with banning everything is that something else will become OP. At this pace, we will have Ubers at the size of OU.

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>>31071070
Poison/Dark is very strong in OU with a how many psychics there are running around, and poison touch is great to go with jab or gunk shot for that high poison chance.

But yea you're right and everyone else is wrong, A-Muk is actually total shit

>>31071131
Not disregarding your opinion just curious to who you think will become OP once Lele leaves
Mega-Scizor and Azumarill maybe but not to the level Lele is

>>31070843
>instead of Celesteela, Landorus-T or Mega Metagross

none of these are broken

>>31071143
Anyone on the A+ rank are candidates to get suspected once Genesect and Lele leaves. But a Lele ban would unlock Mega Sableye to be more of a problem, and we will know it from anti-stall fags crying all over this thread. Although I don't think Mega-Sableye would be close to any ban, the pokemon that can deal with will be a primary candidate.

And I'd add Greninja too. It has more checks, but they're taking so many offensive options off the board that it will rise and shine again.

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>>31071140
>poison touch is great to go with gunk shot

what did he meme by this?

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>stall

>>31071225
Muk has Long Reach too, that way he can apply Poison Touch with non-contact moves desu :^)

His flamethrower also poisons :^^^^^^^^^^^^)

>>31067781
You disgust me.

Good job!

>>31071275
Thanks friendo

:^)

Why don't people like playing against stall?
I like using it :^)

>>31071459
I don't mind it, I'd never do it because I don't have the patience though.

>>31071204
>Anyone on the A+ rank are candidates to get suspected once Genesect and Lele leaves
The only things on there that might be suspect-worthy is Phero. In lower ranks there's maybe Hoopa-U and maybe, MAYBE Koko but like, that's it.

And stuff like Hoopa-U is suspect worthy for breaking everything but it would invite a discussion on Z-moves causes there's a bunch of absurd z-moves sets that don't have any defensive answers, just like Hoopa-U.

>>31071491
Phero gets wrecked by priority and A-Marowak

>>31071548
that's why I said might be. And yes marowak but having a handful of good answers isn't enough to make something balanced, especially when it just u-turns out of bad match-ups.

>>31071491
But I wouldn't chalk them off. Lele off means Phero and Buzz will get one less poke to face, although both of them can't break past the common walls by themselves, at least until a new games with new moves come out. It's more of a respect call than anything, grant you.

But the reason I mentioned Greninja is that it can see it breaking walls. Frog has the movepool to be as obnoxious as he was last generation, and I don't see anything new to be that much of a burden after the S ranks get banned.

Smogon can make this complex ban

>Baton Pass Clause: Players cannot have more than one Pokémon with the move Baton Pass. Furthermore, a Pokémon cannot have Baton Pass while also having a move or ability that boosts Speed and a move or ability that boosts another stat.

But they can do this 'complex' ban:
>Blaziken with Speed Boost is banned.

Explain this, smogonfags. Do you fear UU will be broken or something?

>>31071754
One is a pokemon, the other is a move.

Where is Solgaleo and Lunala and Necrozma?

>>31071807
In Ubers

Where is Xurkitree and the other UB?

Actualy Guzzlord probably sucks. Should have given him an Uber BST.

>>31071754
there are more people opposed to that than for it, regardless of how much shitposting happens on an indonesian basket weaving forum

>>31071831
Why are they automatically sent there but not the other banned in-game pokemon?

>>31071807
Solgaleo and Lunala are in Ubers. Necrozma is probably B- or lower.

>>31071861
Look at their base stats and movepool maybe. Only very crippling flaws can make a box legend balanced in OU.

>>31071861
Because there is a huge power gap between most box legends and the rest of OU. Also I messed up, Necrozma is not in Ubers. He's probably going to be UU.

>>31071877
Greninja is banned in-game but not in Smogon though and he is clearly top tier. Same for Genesect, Hoopa, Magearna.

>>31071907
>Same for Genesect, Hoopa, Magearna.
And those are all top tier mons. Solgaleo and Lunala are in a completely different bracket of power though.

>>31071842
Guzzlord is garbo and Xurk needs to study and retake the exam.

>>31071907
To be fair, Megamence is allowed in game and that thing is broken as shit.

>>31071907
I use Magearna and it's not Uber trust me
It's good, I use it for a reason, but it ain't Uber.

>>31071070
I don't understand how having only one weakness isn't an amazing typing.

Or the fact that it's negated by a balloon or grassy terrain.

>>31070779
Alolan Muk literally can't die if he swipes wonder guard.

>>31071965
when has it ever been the case that a lack of weaknesses makes a pokemon good? if that were true then tyranitar and celebi would be PU shitmons and eelektross would be uber. It is infinitely more important to have good resistances. lacking weaknesses is not a selling point and likely never will be

also how the hell is A-Muk supposed to get Wonder Guard? You know those rankings are for OU, right? And OU is 6v6 singles; these are known knowns

>>31071007
>>Landorus-T
>4x weakness to ice
And Genesect is 4x weak to fire. What your point?

>>31072016
my point is that parasect is 8x weak to fire

>>31072026
my point is that you're 16x weak to bait.

>>31072071
long time listener first time responder

2^5=32

>>31071990
Clearly it works for Muk's shit stats.

>>31072095
Nintendo 64

>>31071965
Power of alchemy and receiver don't work with wonder guard

>>31069586
Helping Hand

>>31068231
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 286-337 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I've got to say that you've found shitty players because a Modest Tapu Lele wrecks Chansey

Want to try out A-Muk, which is better/more reliable overall: Gluttony or Poison Touch?

>>31074404
Poison Touch by far

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I just won a battle on Showdown with my lone Celesteela against a team of 5. It Leech Seeded Zard X and helped kill it as I sacked my team to it to whittle it down, and as my last mon, she swept all 5 of my opponent's mons. She beat Greninja, Magearna, and Magnezone thanks to the Special Defense boosts from Beast Boost.

Is Celesteela the new Garchomp? Her design is fucking perfect.

>Volcanion at B
I'm ok with this. He's been a godsend for me. One shots Toxapex after rocks and puts general pressure on all of the Tapus and even Lando T.

I'm still moving to wherever Tsareena calls home. RU I reckon. Gonna have a good old time there

>>31074584
if what UU is right now persists any you'll be using it in PU as everything drops two tiers.

>>31074272
>thinking i fucking run 4HP

Yeah no, nice strawman though.
Obviously I run max HP

>>31074272
Also dude, I'm fucking top 20 on the ladder, please don't try and tell me what works and what doesn't

I know, and Psyshock doesn't threaten my team, even Chansey. For it to do any real damage it has to be specs, and then its easy to switch into sableye.

Its honestly not hard to deal with, at all.

>>31074726
Man, that might not even be an insult anymore. The power creep is ridiculous this gen

>>31074404
Poison touch 100%
Unexpected poisons can be vital in games

I wish to destroy stall. How do I use the Hoopa U?

>>31074726
>>31075231

All the OU mons currently in UU will be moved up.

This happens every generation, and people still get spooked.

It's called "UU (alpha)" for a reason; it's still nowhere near finalised.

>>31075264
>he thinks azumarill is ever coming back to OU

Enjoy that blue shit cancering up UU forever, its not OU worthy anymore

>>31076047
Whg would it not be OU worthy, especially after Lele leaves? Are you angry? You seem angry. Did someone sweep your team?

What safely switches in to a Lele? Scarf variants absolutely wrecks me and Megagross still takes 20-25% per Psychic if I switch that in and then he can just switch out to a Lando-T or something

Completely wrecks me

>>31076726
Try running Pursuit on your Mega Metagross

>>31076811
>Wasting a moveslot just for one mon

>>31076955
Except Pursuit Metagross has been used long before SM and is useful for trapping most Psychics.

>>31077000
It's only there for Lati@s, which you have 5 other pokemon to deal with. Thunderpunch nails Slowbro and Starmie, Meteor Mash for Gardevoir, Hammer Arm for Jirachi

>>31077019
Metagross's EQ does more to Jirachi than Hammer Arm and doesn't have a drawback, Tough Claws notwithstanding

>>31076726
specially defensive celesteela is your best bet

alternatively you could revenge it with something that doesn't rely on priority to secure KOs, like Greninja

>>31067665
>competitive
>smogon
/0

I know losing levitate hurt it, but you'd think given how fairies are everywhere that Gengar would be more common.

>>31077000
>>31076811
Does Pursuit even work on Lele? It gets +8 Priority or whatever if the target switches out, so would it then be blocked by Psychic Terrain?

>>31070283
Where are fake out and protect

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>>31067665
>breloom is kicked out of OU
this isn't fucking fair

>>31077138
Protect is more for doubles or stall. I'd still probably look into Fake Out over Cross Chop just for the free damage

>>31077159
I know but I thought this is thread about competitive i.e. doubles

>>31077130
Let's look at everything else that's wrong with it, aside from losing levitate

>Frail
>110 speed isn't as beneficial now, that speed tier is overcrowded
>ScarfLel and MegaZam everywhere
>Both Greninjas and ScarfHoopaU wreck it
>Pheromosa hits stupidly hard

But lets be honest, losing Levitate was the nail on the coffin

>>31077124
(Dots)

>>31077223
Oh well, that sucks, I legit like Gengar so it sucks he's not viable in Ubers-lite but I guess it is what it is

>>31077132
It works. If Lele's locked into one move then it becomes pretty easy to trap and kill.

>>31077223
Use it as a scarfed revenge killer.

>>31077291
why don't you just use mega gengar in ubers ubers?

>>31077291
He's a pretty neat revenge killer tho. Slap it a scarf and run 3 attacks + trick and he'll be awesome. And Phero needs to be scarfed and have HP ground or something if it wants to survive against it.

>>31077320
Because it's easier and more varied to use Gengar in UU than MGengar in Ubers. Besides, the second Lele gets banned MGengar has no use there either.

>>31077291
Same. But from what it we've seen so far, Gen 7 UU will basically be Gen 4 OU. Gengar thrived in Gen 4, so here's to that.

Also, gengar still has a niche in OU with dual stab, focus miss, and taunt.

>>31077311
You could, but the lack of life orb doesn't let it nab some KOs. It's a good cleaner though

>>31077353
Lele is already allowed in Ubers
I don't understand the argument

>>31077397
I mean once Lele is banned she'll see more use in Ubers because she'll be seen as more of a contender. Plus her strengths against regular Gengar don't really go away vs M.Gengar. Shadow Tag is irrelevant vs a Pokemon that WANTS to be in against it.

>Bewear doesn't get Drain Punch

It fucking hurts, guys.

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>>31067665
>Porygon-Z
I've waited nine years for this to happen, nine fucking years

>>31068654
Help me out, /vp/. I don't know which Best Slug I should use.

>>31068682
>Tapu Keko used Grass Knot!

>>31074726
She has a nice support movepool with Rapid Spin, Aromatherapy, U-Turn, Screens, and Synthesis coupled with some decent power behind her attacks. The only other spinners with access to a pivoting move are Komala, who is both frailer and slower, and Pheromosa, who isn't falling below OU, so I could see her settling in just fine at NU this gen.

>>31077427
>Shadow Tag is irrelevant vs a Pokemon that WANTS to be in against it.

It's relevant because she doesn't get to be against Mega Gengar you fucking 1100 elo shitter.

>>31078380
>under 100 base attack
>decent power

what planet are you from?

also flygon/scizor gets defog+u-turn

>>31078462
Tsareena has 120 base Attack, so here on planet NU I'd say that's decent.
And I said Spinner, not hazard remover. If you want to include hazard removers with a pivoting move there's also Volt Switch Defog Zapdos.

what are good things to surround Fini or bulu with since I'm basically forced to use tapus?

>I really don't like koko or lele, so I'd like to avoid using them at all costs

also is it just me or is it way more difficult this gen to beat dedicated OU users on battle spot using lower tier mons?

the past gens let me use more bro mons (I did especially well using eelektross and yanmega) but now it seems I just get railed by sheer stats alone.

>>31078596
Magnezone is a must. It trapkills other steels, specs

Alolawak for Top Kek and Top Lel

Mega Metagross and Mega Scizor are the best megas in the meta right now, Gross for offense and Scizor for defense. Your pick

Will the meta change in any way once all megas are released? Don't forget the turn order changes.

>>31078719
fuck this makes me feel so picky. I do love zone but those megas are sort of a drag to me.

for how good that lost says mega zam is, he seems to get destroyed far too often

>>31078763
Yeah, personally I dont understand the hype behind MegaZam, but that's probably due to me misusing it.

Personally, i've been using MegaPinsir and have been enjoying the fuck out of it. Forms a solid core with Specs Zone and Scarf Chomp

>>31078781
MegaZam gets hype because it combos beautifully with Lele (nuclear fuck-you STABs and immunity to Priority are godsends for it) and Tracing Beast Boost makes it an absolute nightmare.

>>31078781
I have a special hatred for all forms of garchomp. probably because they inexplicably keep fucking flygon

also, I've only really done singles since d/p. are they a busted, cookie cutter only format?

How the fuck is Excadrill so high?

>>31078719
magnezone doesn't even reliably kill all the steels
it kills like four or five of them, in general it loses to ones like excadrill, metagross, jirachi, heatran, jeffrey, genesect, and magearna if it chooses to run aura sphere, and i don't see why it wouldn't

>>31078868
probably because it's good

>>31078849
That's a good point, I'll give it another shot sometime

>>31078861
I'm not sure what exactly you're asking. Yes, there's definitely been a huge powercreep in OU since then. If you're a fan of DPPt OU, you'll like this gen's UU, since a bunch of DPPt OU staples are now solid UUmons. And yes, for the most part you're going to see a lot of the same mons and teambuilding is restricted in a lot of ways now.

>>31078886
I mainly run it since SubLeech Celesteela can't touch it, and I hate that thing with a passion. It loses to flamethrower variants, but I dont see much of those

I've beaten MegaGross 1v1 with it since i;ve yet to see one with hammer arm

Mainly it fucks over the Tapus, and that is honestly its best selling point personally.

>>31078868
Because it's amazing.

>>31078752
Mega Diancie looks honestly disgusting with Diamond Storm buffs and full coverage.
Mega Medicham will probably be pretty dope in Psychic Terrain.
Mega Swampert will be a staple on rain teams.
Mega Lopunny outspeeds Top Kek and Ash Grenigger, so she will probably be an HO staple.

Mega Venusaur just won't quit

>>31075222
>prepokebank ladder
>relevant

>>31079117
Mega Beedrill can Knock Off and Drill Run

MegaCross, MegaGarde, and MegaMan are dropping for sure

>>31079117
>Mega Diancie looks honestly disgusting with Diamond Storm buffs and full coverage.
Full coverage and the option to run Magnet Rise so it can turn one protect against rocks in front of Lando/Chomp/Hippo

>>31078861
Flygonfags are scum. I have nothing but disdain for you.

Is MegaMence still demigod?

>>31079448
Yes. Technically his damage was nerfed but they buffed him by making him have 120 base speed on turn 1.

Are they going to make a new tier below OU but above UU (like BL but real)?
This shit is basically UBERS.

>>31079464
Nah at most they will make FU a thing this gen.

>>31079260
Mega Garde yes, there is literally no reason to run her over Tapu Lele and even if Lele is banned it still isn't very good in this meta with Magearna, Celesteela, Mega Metagross and even Marowak being everywhere.

Not so sure about Mega Manectric though, he has some pretty big advantages over Tapu Koko like 135 base speed, Overheat and Intimidate.

>>31079448
ubers still haven't made their viability ranking thread so I don't know

>>31079464
BL could actually be a tier this time around, much like gen 3. Mons like Gengar, Ttar, Xurk, and Keldeo, along with last gen's BL mons are too strong for UU, but also get edged out of OU due to the 3.4 cutoff.

>>31067665
>Buzzwole A+ Rank
The fuck? I thought people were just passing him off as a poor man's Heracross. What's so good about him and how are people running him?

>>31079464
In what way is this ubers?

>>31079662
physical bulk, access to roost, offensive recovery w/ leech life, can abuse bulk up

>>31079662
>poor man's Heracross
I'm at a loss as to how you managed to draw that conclusion.

>>31079802
Same typing but with weaker moves.
Slower.
Bulkier, sure but not that much on the special side.

>>31078981
>>31078998
It's fucked by any decent Water Type
It can't abuse Sand Rush nearly as well
It gets fucked by almost all popular attacking types
It gets fucked by Bulu
It gets 2ko'd by Lele
It is trash

>>31079913
>It's fucked by any decent Water Type
Toxapex is the most common Water type, and it gets eviscerated by Earthquake. Also
>Pokémon has a weakness
>it's shit
It doesn't work like that kiddo
>It can't abuse Sand Rush nearly as well
Proofs? If anything Sand Rush is even better in a super fast meta like this one
>It gets fucked by almost all popular attacking types
Like Electric or Fairy? Oh wait
>It gets fucked by Bulu
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 307-367 (89.2 - 106.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
>It gets 2ko'd by Lele
Lele is broken anyway, Excadrill still handles it fairly well

>>31079913
>It's fucked by any decent Water Type
Moldbreaker variant destroys Smogon Laundromat, and both variants kill Toxapex and Volcanion. Also does decent damage to MegaDos, nd has rock slide for Mantine and Pelipper. Either way, it's not meant to deal with water types. You wouldn't leave a Keldeo out against a psychic type would you? Switch it out

>It can't abuse Sand Rush nearly as well
Nigga its Sand Rush variant was banned to Ubers in 5th gen. It's the best abuser of this ability, if not the only one

>It gets fucked by almost all popular attacking types
Oh yeah, Greninja, Tyranitar, Weavile, Mega Pinsir, and Terrakion are all trash as well

>It gets fucked by Bulu
No shit, everything is fucked by Wood Hammer + Grassy Surge. It also 2kos back with Iron Head

>It gets 2ko'd by Lele
Almost everything is 2kod by Lele, it's that good. Specs Lele is OHKOd by Scarf/Sandrush Iron Head

Play the damn game before you shitpost next time.

>>31080055
>>31080059
Alola Dugtrio is objectively better in terms of design and ability to do all the shit Shitscadrill the Gen V abortion can

>>31080487
>alolan dugtrio
you mean the mon with piss poor defenses and even lower speed than normal Dugtrio and that can't even trap other mons? Alolan Dugtrio is fucking shit, Excadrill can properly run an Assault Vest and resist some hits

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>>31080487
You are delusional.

>>31080487
gr8 b8 m8

Can someone who has experience playing at a decent level in a game like SC2 or League, or HS tell me how Pokemon compares as a competitive game

My impression is that it's basically a card game with slightly less RNG

The move relearner is not letting my Alola Ninetails get Icy Wind, is it no possible to relearn pre evolution moves? is mi Ninetails fucked?

>>31080974
Yeah I think you're fucked. I had something similar happen with my Mismagius in XY being unable to relearn Hex.

>>31080974
It's a prevo-only move.

>>31080569
>>31080578
>>31080601
It's not a Gen 5 min. It is better by default. Stop forcing shitmons into OU like Electavire and Excadrill

>>31067872
Zam is boosted by psychic terrain, both in power and in shutting down priority which used to beat it.

Gross handles all the Tapus and most of the UBs.

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>>31067665
>/vp/ talks shit about how Tapu Fini is the worst Tapu
>is A rank with her brothers
Wew

>>31081295
>listening to /vp/ regarding anything competitive
Wew x2

>>31077622
Porygon Z was OU in the early days of Gen 4 though.

It was mostly due to shiny new toy syndrome, though. It and Electivire fell from OU around the same time.

>>31081295
she's one of the best stallbreakers in the entire game. I will be honest, I was looking at her purely from a damaging/tank/support role, when her role is anti-support. Taunt, immunity to every status, Defog allow her to be very good at dealing with any stall tool not named Ferrothorn

>>31081464
>Electivire
Thanks for reminding me of that meme strat.

>encounter stall team
>taunt
>they forfeit
Is there a better feel in Pokemon?

>>31081486
It was actually a cool strategy back in the old days. By no means perfect, but it was cool when you pulled it off.

That was before team preview though. I honestly wonder how the meta would work if they had never implemented team preview. Like, would people always hesitate to use fire moves on Ferro/Scizor from fear that a Flash Fire Pokemon would absorb it? Would people never use electric attacks on Gyarados because they'd be paranoid about Lightning Rod/Motor Drive/Volt Absorb waiting in the wings?

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>>31067665
>Buzzwole
>A+

How? You'd think SWOLE would be garbage in a special meta.

>>31068024
Holy shit, muh nostalgia. Reminds me of the good old days when the meta was still young and the power levels weren't ridiculously insane.

>>31081295
the only good tapu

>>31067781
Didn't you claim to be above 1800 or something? Or like the 17th best player?

>>31081295
>her

>>31081553
desu I miss lack of team preview. Added some surprise factor and people couldn't tell what your lead was going to be and send out something specifically to counter it.

>ban Sword
>Lele goes S

>ban Gene
>Pheromosa goes S

I don't think I like this tradeoff.

>>31081663
A-Marowak is the premiere Pheromosa counter anyways, not Genesect

>>31081663
Sword needed to go. Not sure about Genesect, haven't played competitive in a while.

>>31081703
Phero will just go on every team instead of most teams once Gene is gone since you can't run Gene anymore.

>>31081566
his gains are just that good

>>31081663
I'd say ban Phero and Lele, since Sword got the boot and it's abundantly clear that Gene will as well. Lele is a nuisance, but part of me doesn't want to see it banned since it's less cancerous than Phero.

Greninja is flying really low under the radar surprisingly. I have no doubt it will be banned as well, but for once I thought it found a stable tier. It was trash in Ubers.

>>31081786
Sword wasn't a suspect, it was quickbanned.

>>31081663
Pheromosa at least is manageable because priority rapes it and it has a few solid checks. It only becomes complete cancer when partnered with Lele's psychic terrain.
I'll be glad if Lele gets booted up to Ubers though.

>>31081802
Either way it's gone.

On a side note, it's obvious that Koko is going to get suspected as well pretty soon, and that's bullshit

So, is Genesect allowed in the suspect test? Because I haven't seen him at all. If no, how are they testing it if he's not allowed?

LEle doesnt deserve ubers

>>31081877
>Koko
lol
Just switch into a ground type once it does the obvious Volt Switch
The worst Tapu by far

>>31079614
If you've literally got a tier's worth of things 'too strong for the tier', doesn't that instead mean they ARE the tier? Why are you banning that many pokemon?
At least with OU it makes sense because most of what gets banned there is cover legends and stuff around that power level with the occasional other thing.

>>31081897
My guess is they're seeing how the meta functions without it, I think it's banned temporarily to gauge it.

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>>31081877
Nigga, Koko gets cucked hard by Marowak

>>31081295
Being the worst among a subset does not mean something is not good among a larger whole.
It probably is indeed the worst Tapu. Being fourth place out of four in the Tapu Contest doesn't really mean much when all the Tapu are above most other pokemon anyways.

>>31067665
>toxapex and a-marowak only new non legends with an A

disgusting. what went so wrong?

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>>31082200
1/3 of A-rank is Gen 7 and you want -more- power creep?

>>31082200
The powercreep since Megas

>>31080973
Really

No one can give a summarization or comparison at all?

>>31082423
I can if HS means Hearthstone and you'll accept a comparison from Grand Tournament era.

>>31082336
>legends

>>31082502
It's a useless categorization and they're going to keep being released regardless. You can't dismiss what you don't like when you're speaking in the context of power creep and the metagame as a whole.

>>31082496
I can. I stopped playing before then but I know enough about GT and just want to know if this is worth getting into. I know virtually nothing about comp pokemon but magic is expensive as hell.

>>31082423
Pokemon is a low skill ceiling game. No matter how much you play or learn or mutate your brain, you'll top out since the game only has so many actions possible and large amounts of rng. Someone made an AI in gen 4 that only thought about 3 turns deep and was at least par with the best players. Pokemon is Go with dice rolls and a much lower ceiling. If someone were to make an AI that could see 50 turns deep and make the optimal plays, it would still lose a significant percentage to top human players.

>>31081786
nah, greninja now truly has 4MSS. Last gen itcould handle pretty much everything with Low Kick, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse and Gunk Shot, but now Low Kick isn't as good with stuff like AV Buzzwole and Toxapex and every Tapu resisting it, so it has to forgo it for Extransensory, which is a shit attacking stat, but without it it loses outright to bulky poisons like M-Venu and Toxapex. The shift away from Low Kick in turn makes Steels and Normals like Celesteela and Chansey more viable counters. It has a decent chance of staying in OU as of now. Plus as always, it has lots of complicated niche offerings it can use, like HP Fire for Ferrothorn

>>31081897
No, you misunderstand how suspect tests work.

When a mon is being supected, there are two ladders:
>XU: Mon is free to roam and meander
>XU (Suspect): Mon is banned

you need to get a certain rating on the latter ladder and once you've done that, you're considered good enough to have an opinion on which meta is "better" and you are free to vote on whether the mon should be banned or not

>>31081957
The reason they get banned is because their Percentage of use reaches a level where every team has them. A healthy tier is not one where a single Pokemon is always the correct choice for a Team.

Aegislash may have kept some things in check, but that meant Aegislash was on every team. This is why people hate the Genies in the official Meta

>>31082502
In the context of powercreep and competitive pokemon the titles of Legendary, Mythical, Psuedo, and Sub-legend etc. are completely meaningless.

>>31082572
The power creep is only from the legends. OU is minor legends: the tier. The only nonlegend, nonpseudo, nonmega mons in A rank or better are Excadrill, Rotom, Marawak and a couple specialized stall mons. The situation only gets slightly better at B rank due to the scarcity of legends and GF being suboptimal with legends in earlier gens.

>>31082636
It's still plenty effective with just Ice Beam/Gunk Shot/Hydro Pump or HP Fire/Extrasensory though. I can see it still getting banned despite not having an actual problem with it.

>>31082677
This is absolutely true, which is why I'll never understand why LandoT was/will never be banned. It's hands down been the most overcentralized mon for 2 gens in a row

>>31082677
This is wrong. Lando-I gets banned every gen despite never reaching centralizing usage.

>>31082810
the problem isn't that it's super common, it's not especially hard to beat. it's just annoying and everyone is sick of it, but not "broken"

>>31082858
Usage doesn't necessarily mean it's broken. Garchomp and Scizor are often in the upper echelons of usage stats and if you called Scizor broken you'd be banned for being a fucking retard

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I've been using this team with decent success, but i feel Buzzwole isn't pulling his weight and I get raped by Koko whenever i battle one.
Any tips? Should I drop Buzzwole?

>>31082858
That's because it's never allowed to. Lando I is objectively a Pokemon everyone would run if allowed because it's versatility allows it to catch any team off guard. You miss read a Landi I and you usually lose.

>>31082937
For starters, replace focus punch with roost on Spotter Skeeter.

Next, replace Heatran with Alolawak, Shadow Bone, Fire Punch, Bonerang, Stealth Rock

>>31082597
I can go earlier if you want but the comparison is weak since the games are so fundamentally different. Much of the time Pokemon is just goodstuff.dek so Yugioh is a more apt comparison. You can have different play styles like hyper offense or stall (that's basically it) but at the start of every match you see what your opponent is using and since most Pokemon have a clear 'best' set you probably know how they'll use them as well. After that it's just going through the motions. There's less one-sided matchups than in HS (Dragon Priest v Handlock; Priest scoops) but there's variation as well.

>>31083008
less variation*

>>31082937
Swap buzzwole for Adamant LO Pheromosa, can one-shot Koko with Poison Jab.

>>31067837
Clefable is the gift that keeps on giving. It was never outright bad, and it only keeps getting more buffs each gen.

>>31083053
>greninja and it's brother finally finish the job it started three years ago

pottery

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>>31083053

>>31083101
Aaaaaand b&'d to Ubers

>>31083053
>Buzzwole down

Finally to where it belongs. I'm all for the memes, but it really doesn't deserve to be pushed up there by them. I honestly think it's UU or BL material.

>>31083108
>Magnebro, Ttar, and Weavile rising

myniggers.jpg

Where can I find the top used sets for new Pokemon? The threads by regular users on the Smogon boards that come up in google searches seem shaky at best.

>>31082700
Assuming mechanics stay basically the same and everything from previous games remains available, anything newly introduced that out-competes something older is power creep by definition. If something new breaks into OU, it has outcompeted most Pokemon previously released and by itself is significant power creep, but 1 or 2 is to be expected. A whole third of OU being new is ridiculous and also indicative of Gamefreak not knowing what the fuck they're doing.

>nonpseudo, nonmega...
>specialized stall
Man it's like you see a field and get an instinctual urge to not only set up goalposts but then sprint away with them.

>>31083209
Those threads usually contain the top sets

>>31083209
http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/ou-analyses.406/

>>31083163
these are viability rankings. UU beta will not be a thing until OU has existed for 3 months. Nothing has dropped to UU yet

>>31083238
So should we expect an official UU in April?

>>31083053
>Starmie: no description
what did he mean by this

>>31067665
How is Salamence higher than Dragonite?

>>31083268
no, the game came out in late november, so you should expect it in late february or early march

>>31083278
Multiscale, Extreme Speed, the fact that this is for singles and not doubles.

>>31083053
>Excashit
>Still not knocked out of OU

>>31083310
those are reasons dragonite should be higher than salamence, which is the opposite of what he's wondering, which you would know if you weren't retarded

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Updated my team a bit
Not sure about Porygon Z

>>31083278
DD Moxie with Z-Fly is really good.

>>31083310
I think you read that wrong, friend.

>>31070779
>Stingulor
Where i can find it?

>>31083362
>>31083374
Hey now I'll have you know that I really do have brain damage.

>>31083370
>Adamant Maro-A with no Attack investment
?

>>31083403
forgot to change that
pretend it's +spdef

>>31082609
>>31083008
Gracias amigos

Perspective is always a good thing to gain before you attempt to commit to anything

>>31083053
Starmie fags on suicide watch

What a lovely day

Best nature for Mega-Alakazam?

When will Smogon start putting up proper write ups?

>>31079464
>This shit is basically UBERS.

LMAO!

You clearly haven't played much Ubers my man.The mons there are on a completely different level, they're absolute monsters.

>>31071861

Box legends not named Suicune are banned first and unbanned later if they prove to be crap.

>>31071907

Greninja is banned for battle spot because the only one available is event only.

>>31083990
Timid

>>31084167
they don't get unbanned later, box legends are theorymoned and they stay there until the heat death of the universe

solgaleo looks kind of shit on the outside when compared to Megagross but it's bulky as dick and has Morning Sun, so it stays in Ubers and will remain there long after you and I have lived and loved and lost and died

>>31084667

Did Kyurem-B not start in Ubers?

>>31084739
i think they were both OU and W went to ubers, but desu I don't recall. that might be a good point

>>31084764
No, Kyurem-B was originally Ubers.l, along with W