Competitive Thread

Finished off my AkalaDex save for Lele- what's a good nature to sync for? Timid?

>>31032189
>no decidueye
Uh oh. I think this list is retarded.

>>31032272
Modest for specs or Timid for scarf

moveset/nature/ev for JojoBuge to wreck Battle Tree

>>31032381
SubPunch, Offensive Roost or Banded works well

What's a good Necrozma set? I usually run Rocks, twave, psychic, and moonlight.

>>31032500
I've seen some Necrozma's run Weakness Policy and Rock Polish, Psychic, Dark Pulse, and either Moonlight or another coverage move.
I haven't used it my self, but it's been difficult to deal with when I've fought against it.

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>>31032189
>Gengar still B+ rank
We made it bros.

>>31032727
>WP Stored Power Necro with Cock Polish
Would that work?

I wish there was only thrrr main formats.
Smogon's Singles , VGC doubles, and super singles (3v3)

It gets so annoying when you need to catch a Celesteela for each competitive mode and you have Sun. Etc.

>>31033011
don't see why not- would probably be less reliable than psychic but if you can keep the buffs up it's likely better

How far do you think I can get with this team in singles? I've never tried competitive, but I think for a first try this is pretty decent. I can't wait for a decent smeargle to come out of the daycare.

Smeargle @ Focus Band
Timid, Own Tempo
252 in Def and Spe
-Stealth Rock
-Toxic Spikes
-Destiny Bond
-Spore

Gengar @ Life Orb
Timid, Levitate
252 in SpeA and Spe
-Will-O'-Wisp
-Hex
-Shadow Ball
-Dazzling Gleam

Metagross @ Muscle Band
Adamant, Clear Body
252 in Atk and Spe
-Rock Polish
-Zen Headbutt
-Meteor Mash
-Earthquake

>>31033386
*Battle Tree singles.
I don't think I can handle the savage thrashing I'd get from wifi battles.

>>31033386
>focus band
This is supposed to be a Focus Sash and just a typo right?

>>31033479
Yeah.

>>31033540
Alright, good.
How about giving Gross a mega stone?
Would be a waste to not have a mega on your team.

>>31033564
I don't have enough BP to get one yet. The current strategy is to use rock polish+mega to set up. Until then, physical move boost isn't too terrible.

>>31033592
Is 252 Spe really necessary with Rock Polish, considering MegaGross is already base 110?

>>31033648
What else do you think I put it in? Hp? Special Defense? Or would you have me replace rock polish with something else?

>>31032189

I think that Hoopa-U should have got a Suspect test before Genesect, but both deserve to go anyway so it isnt a big deal.

>>31032189
>Ash-Greninja is higher than both Protean and Niggerzard X

Sweet, sweet justice.

>>31033386
Why use Metagross and Gengar and not just go mega?

>>31032189
why are there so many B+ rank dudes

>>31032189
I thought zygarde was uu

>Buzzwole is A+ rank

apologise, right now.

>>31032189
What's being used on Buzzwole these days? I've got a Jolly and a Careful one and I'm not sure what the usual setup is.

>>31033774

>>31033592
^^^^^^^^^^^^
New to most of this. I only have 3 bp from my first go with my elite 4 guys. Clearly I don't know what works, so untill I get all the things I need, that's what I'm trying.
All I want to know is how far what I have now will take me.

I'm finding my team has a hard time dealing with Garchomp. What are the current garchomp counters in the meta?

>>31032189
what makes vanilla dugtrio better than its alola counterpart?

>>31033815
I used Arcanine, A-Muk, and Shiinotic to beat the regular Singles Tree and advance 18 matches into the Super Singles.
Point is that I'm sure you'll do fine. I got over 100 BP getting that far, if that helps.

>>31033831
Arena Trap

>>31033790
UU is usable in OU.

>>31033841
>got to supersingles with shinotic
holy fuck are you 1900 in showdown?

>>31032189
>Mantine in OU.
wtf i love mantine now

>>31033807

Either a Bulk Up+3 Attacks, SubPunch, AssVest, or some Bulky Roost variant.

Choice Scarf is also used, but it's generally outclassed by Heracross, except in like one situation.

>>31033822

Celesteela does well against most sets. Same with Defensive Lando-T's and Physically defensive fairies or fast ones that can take at least one EQ can give Garchomp trouble as they can OHKO back with Moonblast.

>>31033784
Some of them might fall down to B or lower later. They're not finished ranking all of C and D rank too.

>>31033807
Substitute+Bulk up is common. Although, with a jolly nature a choice scarf set could be good

>>31033822
That depends a bit on which Garchomp set gives you the most trouble. Weavile is usually a safe bet though.

>>31033901
What exactly happened to Mantine that made it so good? I thought it was supposed to be garbage?

>>31033973

+20 HP and Roost

>>31032189
I thought only contrary Serperior was OU? Did they get access to his hidden ability somehow?

>>31033973
It got Roost and 20 more base HP. It's typing was always good but it's best recovery used to be Rest and
>Rest
not even once

Huh, no Xurkitree? I know it's kind of a one trick pony but it's a damn fine trick.

This has got to be one of the most confusing shifts for Pelipper and Mantine. They're at the top of the chart with gods and base-stat-monsters.

>>31034039
The pic in the OP is of poke bank OU so it's possible to trade over a Contrary Serperior from gen 6.
>>31034068
Xurk may end up B- rank or lower.
B- is still good.

>>31034068

Half the mons in OU, they're not too sure where to place them. The ones currently on the list are the more "obvious" choices. Xurkitree will most likely end up around B+/B- when they get around to it.

Any thoughts on this team? It's saved my ass quite a few times now.

Porygon-Z @ Normalium Z
Adaptability
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid
- Protect
- Swagger
- Thunder Wave
- Hyper Beam

Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Flash Fire
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid
- Hex
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball

Golisopod @ Assault Vest
Emergency Exit
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful
- Aqua Jet
- First Impression
- Rock Slide
- Leech Life

Toxapex @ Leftovers
Merciless
4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold
- Baneful Bunker
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
- Light Screen

Kartana @ Life Orb
Beast Boost
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly
- Psycho Cut
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Air Slash

Mimikyu @ Life Orb
Disguise
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly
- Wood Hammer
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance

>>31032189
>7 in A+
ree narrow it down to 6 so I can make the easiest goodstuff.team

>>31034106

What do you do against Lele when Kartana dies?

>>31032189
>gengar

what

>>31034106
>that Porygon-Z
We're reaching jank levels that shouldn't even be possible.

>>31034106
Is this for OU?

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>>31033760
NINJA JUSTICE

>>31034106
>Porygon Z
I... I do not understand.

So I got fucked with my Buzzwole. Should I keep the one with a Timid Nature or keep the one with a Lax Nature?

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>>31034119
Toxic Spikes will have poisoned Lele hopefully, so that Chandelure can Hex to probably oneshot, or Golisopod Leech Life spam tanking the hits.

>>31034140
>>31034178
People don't expect it to work. It does. I can't explain to you how good the Breakneck Blitz is, going off of Hyper Beam. It just works.
Used to run Modest instead of Timid, but the extra speed to go over 300 is necessary against certain matchups.
Protect is there to keep it alive for one turn, to see what the opponent is up to. Swagger T-Wave is to provide support once it outlives it's usefulness read: expends Z-Move, and gets off one Hyper Beam (without missing).

>>31034142
Yes, it's what I'm running.
Toxapex actually has Regenerator instead of Merciless. Just put Merciless in my post because technically Hidden Abilities are a no-go outside of Showdown.

>>31034229
swagger is banned in OU, isn't it?

>>31034366
New gen; Swagger's back.

>>31034366
Teambuilder --> Team --> Validate = "Your team is valid for [Gen 7] OU."

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I just caught a shiny Pelipper with Drizzle and Timid nature. I'm pretty stoked. This is my second shiny from S/M.

Timid isn't he best nature, I know, but I'm considering this set-up:

Pelipper @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SA / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Ice Beam

Most people seem to be running support movesets with the odd specs set here and there so the extra speed might catch a few people off guard. She probably won't stick for the whole battle so the rest of the team shouldn't be too rain dependent (I wouldn't risk running Thunder or Hurricane on anything), but obviously should benefit from rain somehow. Maybe a decent Swift Swimmer? Also would need a good switch-in for electric attacks.

Any thoughts?

>>31034177
I wanna breed this thing so fucking bad. If I had one with a good nature and IVs I'd be the happy man on the planet.

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I need help picking a sixth member.
Also, any changes i should make?

>>31032189
Where did you get this? Id like to see the reasoning on some. A

>>31034484
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-viability-ranking-thread-preliminary.3590726/

>>31034460
mega sciz

>>31034509
Thanks. It doesn't seem to come with reasoning. Suprised dragonfire is so low, and I still don't see ash-greninja as being superior.

>(Mew, Hydreigon, or Crawdaunt for example)
Crawdaunt is good this time?

is there a reason why all mareanies i see on trades all have the egg moves haze, stockpile, swallow, and spit up? Does toxapex use all 4 moves?

>>31034559
Knock Off.exe

>>31034559
>dragonfire
Did you mean Dragonite? B isn't actually that low, the rankings will go down to D- when they are finished.

>>31034460

Mega Metagross with Pursuit for the 6th slot

>>31034580
No, but Haze is an important egg move.

Those four moves are Mareanie's only egg moves, so they were probably thrown on because they're hard to get, and someone might use them.

Stockpile, Swallow, and Spit up are extremely gimmicky, and not useful at all in competitive.

>>31034559
Ash-greninja is in a higher speed tier than protean Greninja making it able to outspeed shit like Tapu Koko. It also hits hard as shit and nothing likes to switch in on its hydro pump or dark pulse. It also has one of the best priorities in the game. Its simple superior because its faster and has huge raw power while shitting on shit like Phermosa with water shuriken.

What's the worst possible fully evolved six-pogey team Pre-Pokebank?

>>31034888
6 whatevers at their minimum levels with their only move being Confide or something

>>31034888
Luvdisk, Spinda, Delibird, Ariados, Ledian, Lurantis

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>>31035088

This sounds pretty fuckin bad

Can anybody top this?

About to SR ash greninja, what should I aim for? Hasty?

>>31033876
Nah bro. Shiinotic is god-tier. Ignore the 405 BST and look at a SpDef build with Strength Sap, Leech Seed, Moonblast, and Spore.
Only walled by Ferrothorn and killed by strong poison-types. Otherwise it's a fuckin underdog.

>>31035130
You can throw in Wishiwashi as well, if you're allowed to keep it at level 19.

Lele ban when?

>>31034460
Something that flies so you aren't squared by scarf exca. Lando-T maybe so you arent relying on Mimikyu to take a fighting hit.

>>31034449
delet your file -> delet your demo -> start a new file -> start demo again -> done demo -> send Greninja -> recive Greninja

Works, I guess

>>31034797
>Swallow, and Spit up are extremely gimmicky, and not useful at all in competitive.

fix'd.

>>31035130

I'd replace Lurantis with Wigglytuff.

Lurantis may be shit, but its still a hellva lot better than Wigglytuff.

>>31035146
Timid for special attacker. Naive for mixed, though I don't recommend the mixed set personally.

http://pastebin.com/eByCDKBa

Any good suggestions for this team?
>a-tales provides screens and chip damage with hail, mainly used to make it much easier to set-up double dance lando-t and makes all my bulky mons super difficult to take down. Also improves match-up vs rain which is a scary archetype
>double dance lando-T is actually overpowered IMO with Z-moves I feel it should be suspected somewhere down the line because it legitimately has no good switch ins and can only be beaten through offense, which it sweeps anyway if it gets enough turns to set-up. Can't decide on z-rock or z-fly but I prefer z-rock cause celesteela is annoying
>mega slowbro is x-zard check, metagross check, emergency mega-gyar check/lure, pretty much just a blanket physical attacker check that checks anything that doesn't have a strong SE move against it, and practically everything if Veil is up. Hits pretty hard in its own right and has good coverage
>tapu bulu is ash greninja check (sort of, doesn't live two specs hydros after rocks but that's only if it gets battle bond, which I would ideally not allow) provides passive healing for everything but lando and hits hard while being pretty hard to take down
>excadrill provides hazard support and is a very good electric check, and can check tapu lele (if lele locks itself into focus blast it's just a free turn for everything on my team)
-mimikyu is a secondary sweeper and can serve as an emergency stop to most sweeps

I haven't tried it out yet and I made it while tired, but I've used all of these mons and I think it looks solid. I just wanna know if I'm super weak to something I'm forgetting

Can anyone recommend a nice guide on team building? I've read some of them, but it's always the same shit. Wallbreaker, Special Sweeper, Tank blabla.

I need like something that helps with getting your team to harmonize more. Or like a list of things you ABSOLUTELY need in every team for OU for example.

I've never really put serious time into getting into comp before, but with how accessible everything is in sunmoo i'm finally getting into it, i have a bunch of good IV/EV/Nature mons but now I'm just struggling to figure out some good team comp.

Stuff like scarfed chomp comes along and annihilates my entire team.

>>31033790
Was is right. Zygarde got Thousand Waves this gen. It has catapulted to OU.

>>31034559
>Crawdaunt is good this time?
Crawdaunt has been good since Adaptability.

>>31036820
you absolutely 100% need an answer to u turn (gene, pheremosa, koko, lando, etc), electric spam (KOKO) and psychic spam (zam, lele). Next in terms of importance is breaking the fat steels (heatran/celes/skarm) and pink blobs. From there you're pretty free to do what you need.
Marowak is pretty handy for all this bar psy spam.

So what classic OU-rated mons (i.e. mons that are good in OU even if they're not OU by usage) haven't they put up in the rankings yet?
>Megas: Slowbro, Mawile (OU this gen), Diancie, Altaria, Lopunny, Medicham, Gardevoir, Gallade, Manectric, Pidgeot, Beedrill, Heracross, Swampert, Sceptile
>Legendaries: Mew, Celebi, Raikou, Entei, Victini
>4th gen evos: Gliscor, Togekiss
>Toxicroak
>Bronzong
>Staraptor
>Infernape and Empoleon
>Crawdaunt
>Breloom
>Feraligatr
>Nidoking and Nidoqueen
>Hydreigon
>Diggersby

Anyone I forgot?

>>31037526
thanks. I'll try to keep that in mind. so i guess a really strong fire type like maybe charizard y would be good, but it's double weak to pebbles...

>>31037718
char-x is always a great choice

>>31037567
All these megas are currently unreleased, this is why they aren't ranked.

>>31037841
shut up, Alan

what's the best way to deal with scarfed lel?

>>31038100
scarf paper cut

>>31032189
>26 legendaries
Smogon
I mean come on
Its time to herf all those fuckers into a tier between OU and Ubers

Or just let them all burn in hell in Ubers format, I literally don't care.
Fuck trios, fuck events, fuck UBs, fuck mew clones, fuck them all.

now that scizor and gliscor are both OU, any advice on making a team with them?

>>31038155
fuck you and fuck off

>>31038180
>gliscor

Using this stally piece of shit tells me a lot about a person's character

>1500 Coil after 20 battles on the Genesect suspect test
I'm not gonna make it, I should just test new teams on this ladder

>>31032278
Smogon has a really strong hate-boner for it and Golisopod. They've even been blacklisted from discussion

>>31038155
OU is becoming that tier, anon. UU is becoming the new "OU". Most of the mons in there so far (based on usage) were the cornerstones of Gen 4 OU, not to mention Tyranitar and Hippowdown are just barely above the cutoff.

>>31038216
but anon i used offensive gliscor

What's Metagross like in Smogon UU? He's my bro so I always try to build teams around him and saw he's legal without the mega stone. Definitely tempted to play UU this gen since I tend to dislike the legendaries that are allowed in to OU.

>>31038802
Good as a suicidal wallbreaker w/ explosion, but otherwise outclassed by Cobalion

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>>31038737
What tier will be Gen4 UU?

>>31038844
RU. Basically just shift every tier by one.

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Can someone explain why Alolan Muk is up there?
It's one of my favorite additions, but I don't really know how to use it.

>>31038997
Assault Vest with Pursuit. One of the few Pokémon that can switch into Tapu Lele reliably and trap her.

What makes Lele so great?

>asking this as someone who's still playing G6 OU

>>31038997
only one weakness
stab knockoff
pursuit
shadow sneak to finish off weakened mons
fire blast

it's really solid and has a good niche right now

>>31038040
But that's silly, they're ranking Heatran and that's unreleased as well.

>>31038997
Only one weakness that's basically removed by Grassy Terrain.
Nice special bulk.
Knock Off, Pursuit, Shadow Sneak and all with poison chance.

Tbh I don't get it either, lots of UU mons fill this niche.

>>31039232
The difference is that you can't transfer items via Pokebank, so there still won't be a way to get those Mega stones post-Bank unless there's an as-yet-unannounced patch or giveaway in the works so all of those Megas bar Slowbro will remain unranked until there's a way to get them in Gen VII.

Free Specs for Psychic moves and the option of running an item + no priority + good movepool + good BST distribution + good typing.

>>31039232
It will be when Bank comes out. You literally can't get those megastones because they are not in SM and you can't trade them through Bank.

>>31039295
meant to
>>31039118

>>31039294
>>31039295
I see. They're preparing for Bank. Thanks.

Most unreleased stuff last generation remained unreleased (eternal floette), which makes me wonder if we'll get these unreleased megastones in SM

My guess is that it'll be released in the 3rd game, much like the second batch of megastones in ORAS

iirc, they didn't find data for these megastones in the game while mining

I spend like hours to try to make a nice team that is ready for everything and then some shitter with two tappus, three UBs and mega metagross appears and shits all over me

Sometimes I think I'm not made for this game

>>31039295
>>31039324
>because they are not in SM
Small nitpick: they ARE in SM, they exist in the game's code and work just as they did in ORAS, you just can't obtain them legitimately.

Also AZ's Floette is still in the game under the same conditions which is kinda weird, especially since Cosplay Pikachu is gone.

>>31039341
Time to run Alolawak, Garchomp, and Magnezone. Nowadays you can only run 2 types of teams: the one that rekt you, and the one that counters the team that rekt you.

>>31039324
>they didn't find data for these megastones in the game while mining
Did you not play battle tree? They're there.

>>31032189
How the fuck are Keldeo, Clefable, and Thundurus B+? It's not a bad rank by all means, but that's still a big drop from last gen. Especially considering Lando T and Garchomp stayed where they were

>>31039458
Tapu Lele fucks Keldeo and Prankster Thundurus up and is great competition with Clefable.

>>31039458
The Tapus and Mantine really hurt Keldeo's viability.
UBs, A-Marowak, A-Muk fuck over Clefable.
Tapu Koko and the Prankster and Thunder Wave nerfs made Thundurus less good than before

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Hello /vp/. I'm trying to make a team that I can use for doubles, primarily vgc 17. I have never taken the time to make a real team for going online, but a streamer I watch hosts vgc format tournaments that I want to participate in. This is just a team of pokemon that I felt were good individually with some possibly complimenting each other. I know there are some obvious weaknesses for using this team for doubles, like having tapu koko and marowak out at the same time. If someone who actually knows what they're doing has suggestions, that would be ideal.

I'm just using mega mence for ranked battle spot, I know it isnt allowed in vgc rules. I'm thinking about replacing it with dragonite or a more physically defensive mon. I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to building teams, but I dont want to just copy the top 8 from the last tournament. Unfortunately, I trained up an aegislash without realizing that is also not allowed in vgc 17. So I'm just using this to practice battling on ranked doubles for now.

Also I do not have access to a decent top bull because I caught it and saved like a retard. I already have these pokemon bred and ev trained up, but I dont mind doing a couple more. Thanks for taking the time to help me and reading my rambling

>>31039966
I would get rid of Araquanid but there aren't many more options.

>>31039894
Ah, alright. The prankster nerf was due, but the way it was done was really dumb.

That being said, how do the UBs, bar Kartana and Celesteela, and Alolawak fuck over Clefable?

Do you think Mantine will remain in OU in a couple months?

I dont see Xurketree ranked, but how does that compare with Thundurus given that Koko trounces over Thundy?

>>31032189
Why is Xurketree unranked?

Why is Magnezone B+, it should clearly be higher

What are some good Zygarde sets, and is mono Thousand Arrows really that good?

Why is Gengar that high?

>>31039966
You could replace Aegislash with Porygon2 with Trick Room to support Araquanid.
Garchomp is also a better choice than Salamence

Anybody else have any questions about this set of mine? >>31034106

>>31040017
Nihilego fucks it. Buzz and Mosa don't like it but can possibly kill with poison jab. It can't do anything to alolawak, since it can't paralyze it or reliably stall it out - its either set up fodder for the magic guard sets or whittled down by burn for the unaware sets.

Mantine's difficult to say, I don't imagine it will stay OU by the end of the SM meta, but for the next few months it will serve a reliable niche.

Actually don't know why Xurk's not ranked, maybe they're still discussing. In any case it serves a different purpose than Thundy did or does.

lets ban sableye for 1 week before it gets b+

How good is Xurketree? From what i've seen, it's a great wallbreaker, but its fucked over by its other stats, mainly speed

>>31040156
that was before gen 7 introduce a lot of fairys and changed megas speed mechanic

>>31040011
>>31040072
Thanks for the advice. Araquanid is my favorite pokemon this gen (I have an autistic fascination with spiders), so I'd rather support it instead of ditching it. I considered trick room porygon 2, but I don't have 0 speed IV mons and don't particularly feel like spending hours trying to get a 5 IV 0 speed ditto. I can't inject. So I thought trick room would be a bad choice.

I know garchomp is better but are there any other pokemon you can think of that my team would benefit from? Particularly if I add porygon 2 in

>>31040468
If you are adding Porygon2, then you could benefit from having a Fake Out user. Your best choice for that role with your team would be Hariyama

>>31040537
Okay, and if I dont add porygon? I was thinking of gastrodon and alolan muk instead of the two illegal mons I have, but I feel like thats offensively weak

>>31034229
>Hidden Abilities are a no-go outside of Showdown.
?

>>31040557
A-Muk it's not that weak, but your team doesn't really need Gastrodon

>>31040642
Can you get Hidden Abilities in the new games?

I mean, I made this setup after now doing competitive for a few years, so I have only some idea as to what works and what doesn't. I found Porygon-Z with Breakneck Blitz going off of Hyper Beam works because Breakneck Blitz becomes a special move instead of physical, when you use the Z-Move over Hyper Beam. So that's a 200 power Normal-type special from Porygon-Z's special stat, with Adaptability on top. Enough to one-shot pretty much any mon that isn't pure tank or Ghost.

Using Toxic Spikes to give the enemy mons poison, so that Chandelure can STAB Hex with the status damage amp was a good idea I had that works. For Flying mons, I have HP Ice, Goli rock slide, and Kartana/Mimikyu glass cannon power to get the job done.

>>31039367
They probably plan to release the Floette eventually. And my guess is that the other megas will happen in whatever game they release next.

>>31040942
Yes, you have to SOS chain for a chance at them

>>31040651
Okay, I'll use alolan muk. So with him, tapu koko, celesteelia, marowak, and araquanid, what's the best 6th mon? Hariyama, Garchomp, Porygon 2, or something else?

Also, what set would you recommend on the muk? Curse or what? And is having the hidden ability worth it on my team?

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Thoughts on xurk? It seems underated to me.

>>31041465
Depends on the format, but I feel like top kek is generally just better

>>31041465
Stall hasn't taken over yet, so it isn't as fun as it could be.

So I'm newish to the competitive world, what's the best mon to deal with Top Lel? That motherfucker seems to have a check for everything I swear

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Any VGC bros here? How would you run Incineroar once it gets its HA? (Intimidate) it has a nice movepool and decent bulk. It will probably be pretty good once its HA gets released.

>>31042122
Metagross

>>31042164
I dunno, what does it really have over Arcanine?

>>31042122
Lele is S rank because it has so few counters. Expect a suspect test soon. For now the most reliable counters are Mega-metagross and assault vest Alolan Muk.

>>31042439
Alomomola

>>31042439
Dark typing. Being able to shit on A-wak. Pretty strong Z-move option.

>>31042452
>a-vest alolan muk
Wouldn't it be weak though? What kind of set would you run on him

>>31042530
Knock off, Pusuit, Poison jab or Gunk Shot, and shadow sneak.

>>31042460
W-what?

>>31042530
>Wouldn't it be weak though?
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 156-184 (37.6 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

>>31042439
Fake Out.

http://pastebin.com/xkbkNbFm

Fully admit I'm not very good at this, so any tips/replacements would be appreciated

>>31043548
On Azumarill, replace body slam with Play Rough to take advantage of the fairy type STAB.

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What's a good set for Silvally?

>>31043995
Don't

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Is this any good? Or should i put u-turn in it rather than aerial ace?

>>31043995
Depends on what type you're looking to use. I'm probably just going to tell you to use a better Pokemon of that type.
Silvally isn't very good.

>>31043548
Is this meant for Battle Tree or Singles?
Because if you're doing Singles, you may want to change some of this team, there's not much real bulky mons besides Muk. Not to say you always need bulk, but it's something you should consider.
Take >>31043656 this anon's suggestion with Azumarill along with replacing Aqua Tail with Waterfall.

>>31043995
You're better off not using it. GF fucked up something with a lot of potential.

What's the best Buzzwole set for the current meta?

>>31044026
>>31044066
>>31044127
What about a type null?

>>31043995
I've seen Silvally used as a Z-parting shot pivot in UU, though it is outclassed by Alolan Persian.

>>31044188
Eviolite is the only thing going for Null, but the fact that it lacks reliable recovery hurts it a lot. Porygon2 is a better option

>>31044188
You're better off using Porygon2.

>>31043656
>>31044079
http://pastebin.com/4StA4GWG

Taking improvements on board, added some more tanky mons. It's for OU in Showdown

>>31044188
Even with Eviolite, it isn't a good Tank
No recovery besides Rest+Sleep Talk
It's a real shame

>>31042072
Scarfed xurk 2HKO kek with tbolt, it seems like a good counter.

>>31044226
Ice beam would be better over Dazzling Gleam on Starmie. Both take care of dragons, but ice beam can deal with grass types that can mess with Starmie, and it's good against the Genies as well as having higher bp.
Possibly replace recover with rapid spin to remove rocks for Arcanine, because he takes 25% damage from them.
Celesteela is typically better used as a defensive pokemon with leech seed, if you want an automize sweeper try out Magearna.

>>31044037
Yes U turn would be much better and allows scizor to function as a slow pivot.

>>31044771
okay. but EV spread and nature is alright then? First time using one

>>31044811
Yep

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Can anyone else not wait for lower tiers to come out? I'm sick of playing randoms and I'm not gonna stoop to playing the shitshow that is OU.

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>>31044945
Purrfect, thanks buddy

>>31042164
Fake Out, (slow) U-Turn, Dark Typing, Darkest Lariat against minimize fuckery andThroat Chop against Hyper Voice user

>>31044973
I mean there's UU

>>31044973
What is even wrong with OU other than muh legends.

>>31045148
It's sort of like competitive Yugioh, you know? The standard for competitive now is completely broken, not just really good. Gen 4 OU post-Garchomp would be ideal.

>>31045092
>Gen 6 OU: The tier

No thanks.

>>31044973
Just play old lower tiers. They're still available.

Would Porygon Z benefit more from a Modest or Timid nature?

>>31045379
I think Timid. It might be important to outspeed certain things. Don't have the calcs, tho, sorry.

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Physical or special hoopa-U? Been out of the meta for a bit, but seems like the meta is special defense based due to all the Tapus and UBs running wild.

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>>31045488
>mfw Hoopa-Unbound is actually Gilgamesh from FF

trying battle spot for the first time

half the people I fight have full shiny teams, has it always been like this?

I think the worst part is that most of them can't even beat me when I have no idea what I'm doing

>>31046444
It's injectors. In not sure why but they're usually not very good.

>>31046734
>>31046444
>>31046444

Pretty much everybody wants to win. And now thanks to injecting, Smogon, forums, Showdown, etc. people can easily find out what's good and then get that and use it.

But since they just jumped into it and usually have no experience they're shitters who don't know how to use what they've got. It's like a guy who buys a million dollar sports car but he doesn't understand the nuances of that type of engine, the brake system, stick shift, etc.

>All those times watching some dude with an all shiny team Hi Jump Kick my Spiritomb

>>31046847
they're just kids man

Ok, i want to make Ash-Greninja team postbank
thinking of using the new smogonbird (peliper) for rain support, but who wlese should i run it with?
>Can't use marowak because rain
kill me goyim

>>31047440
Araquanid will tear huge chunks out of just about anything in rain. Whether he can survive to do that is another matter though.

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>>31045366
>Searching...

How do you counter Magearna?

Is it possible Nihilego could have a spot on a hail team? I think hail is what I want to run this gen, that or sandstorm.

>>31047513
Marowak is pretty close.
>resists both STABs
>immune to its most powerful coverage
>kills it with Thick Club-boosted Fire STAB

What's UU looking like?

>>31047953
A bit of a mess right now. Very fun if you use the broken stuff, not very fun if you don't.

Guys, help a bro out here. I've been trying to catch Lele with a Modest nature for a good two hours hours here and it either 1)Has a terrible nature or 2)Is Modest but has 31IVs in Attack. Can someone end my suffering and tell me that those 31IVs won't actually hinder it?

>>31047953
Gen 4 OU

>>31048094
Am I correct in assuming that UU is about to get redefined?

Staple Pokémon like Suicune, Roserade, Toxicroak, Mienshao - Pokémon that just always came to mind at the mention of UU. The "kinda good" Pokémon. They're not going to stick around, are they? There's no way that BL will be able to accommodate so many Pokémon to keep those guys in UU.

Think there's going to be another tier added below PU?

>>31048103
I'd stick with the 31 IVs in attack. It's not going to matter unless you're terrified of confusionhax

Or just inject.

>>31048199
I can see BL becoming a legitimate tier this time around, much like gen 3 and prior. Even in gen 6, BL was crowded enough to be a tier, now it will gain more mons like Gengar, Clefable, and Tyranitar

>>31048103
Since you should be going for Hidden Power Fire, that 31 in Attack might actually help it hit one of the two optimal HP Fire spreads. In fact, you specifically want to AVOID perfect IVs in Speed and Special Attack just Hypertrain them later lol, you do have a Rare Kitchen 5 right anon? because there's no way to get HP Fire with perfect IVs in those stats.

Hidden Power is fucking bullshit.

>>31048200
>just inject
Nah, not gonna bother injectors for this.

But this is getting ridiculous, so I might as well keep it with those 31IVs in Attack. I just fucking hate it how it always ends up being the Modest one.

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>>31048240
>BL becoming a tier
Oh baby.

No way it's going to become a tier, it's supposed to just be a banlist for the tier below. If it was a tier it wouldn't be BL. And there's other BLs as well.

>>31038670
really? That seems more autist than usual. Why is that?

>>31038670
>>31048318
Pretty sure its cause Ghostowl had like 12 pages of (mostly useless) discussion in its thread while other interesting and more useful Alola 'mons had like 3 or 4 max.

>>31048300
I'm just speculating. I'm certain that BL will be overcrowded, and there's no way 20+ mons are going to remain in limbo like that. Who knows though, we'll find out in a few days once the January tier shift occurs

>>31048318
I can understand Golisopod, since it's ability is both a blessing and a curse and it's tedious to utilize. No clue about Decidueye. It's not the greatest mon, but calling it bad is ridiculous.

Fun fact, they've blocked Dhelmise since it's too similar to Decidueye. Do with that info what you will

>>31032189
I thought Golisopod made it into OU?

>>31048318
The owlfags at smogon are the same as here on /vp/. They keep pushing him to be in OU despite clearly not being suited for the tier. A similar thing has happened with Golisopod but to a lesser extent.
They've banned discussion about them in the viability thread because it's only shitposting.

Man, fuck Magearna. The sooner it hits Ubers the better I'll feel.

So, what new mons got OU analysis so far?

>>31048454
>tfw there's like half a dozen other shitflingers that are higher on the to-ban list than Magearna
It's going to be a long, dark winter.

What are the (non-legendary and competitively) good special attackers available in S/M (any gen is fine)?

Pory2/Z and Greninjash are the only ones that come to mind but I haven't looked too hard.

What's the best team type for OU right now? HO? Stall? Or the classic balanced?

WHY DOES EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TEAM HAVE A SHITTY MAGEARNA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>31047440
You actually can. I tested out maro on my rain team and it works superbly as a switch in to electric moves. Just dont run fire moves on it aside from WoW

>>31048512
I think that there will be a Lele suspect after Genesect and the bans will more or less stop there. Maybe pheromosa or Hoopa U at some point but not much else.

>>31048477
http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/ou-analyses.406/

>>31047505
meet me on Gen 4 OU I'm so lonely

>>31038670
>Smogon has a really strong hate-boner for it and Golisopod.

I wouldn't say it's a hateboner, peeps are just tired of having to deal with annoying Decidueye and Golisopod fanboys (a minority mind you, but enough to become a hassle and bring the rest down) constantly moaning in other discussions and on discord chat about how their bro is good and has a role that makes them OU worthy and thus should be given a chance, when everyone else knows that its BS. So the OU council just got fed up and blacklisted them lol.

Araquanid and Dhelmise fanboys are rapidly reaching that same level of annoyance as well, don't be surprised if they also get blacklisted in the near future.

>>31048513
(Mega) Alakazam is good.
Gengar is still good
Starmie is alright
Smogonbird: Boat Edition is fine, and Kingdra is good in conjunction with it

>>31048608
You really think we'll go without a Greninja suspect this gen, for either forme?

>>31048616
Slim pickings before Bank is updated huh. Might go with my mum's pelican since I'm keen on seeing Araquanid tear shit up.

>>31048610
fugge, let me make a team. I only have Gen 6 UU/RU/NU on this account

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Give it to me straight, does this guy have any use in pokebank OU?

>>31048674
There's also Magnezone, Alolan Ninetales, and Clefable to work with.

So I'm running Mega Scizor as my main mon, which Tapu synergizes with it best? Fini seems pretty nice with it, but at the same time I don't really want to go without moves like Thunder Wave or Wisp.

>>31048657
Greninja will get banned long before Lele does, they'll give her a fair chance since she's new, but once the likes of Hoopa and Gren are gone her and pheromosa will be next.

>>31048892
I don't know man. The fact that Lele is the only pokemon in S rank once Genesect is gone says a lot.

Let's say two pokes with intimidate are sent out on the first turn. Does the ability prompt that shows up first mean it has higher speed? Does this apply to every ability?

What mons go well with Politoed? I bred it mainly to use with Ash-Greninja in doubles on the battle tree but the combo struggles a little bit in some matchups. Was thinking of trying it with Araquanid

>>31048783
Fini, maybe koko for a volturn/uturn core
>>31049091
Araquinid is a total monster under rain.

How did you build Celesteela again?

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What is the best team i can build around a pikachu with his z crystal?

i really want to use Catastropika

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdrZQ8l8riM

This is the game I'll be doing Battle Spot on, and I'd like some advice for my doubles team. It's still in the making, and I'd like some suggestions for other teammates, since I doubt my judgement is good at this stuff.

Alakazam @ Life Orb
Magic Guard
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Thunder Wave (unsure)

Ribombee @ Focus Sash
Shield Dust
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Pollen Puff ( Bug Buzz?)
- Moonblast
- Quiver Dance
- Baton Pass

Alolan Muk @ Sitrus Berry
Poison Touch
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant
- Protect
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Shadow Sneak

I need a 'mon to set up screens and hazards, as well as a bulky special wall if anyone can suggest something.

>>31049233
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful/Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect/Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower/Fireblast/Toxic

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>>31042164
Eject Button would be pretty neat on Incineroar. You get your intimidate off, Fake Out something for free damage + flinch, then get hit, switch out with button, and you get to bring it in later with Intimidate. Really good partner for Oranguru because it sets it up nicely, and while Tapu Lele blocks Fake Out with Psychic Terrain, Incineroar is immune to Psychic, which is really significant. I'd expect to see a good amount of Incineroar post HA.

>>31048549
Anything with Magnezone/Garchomp/Alolawak, since Phero and Celesteela are literally everywhere

What is the reason for HP fire on Nihilego?

>>31048612
Araquanid and Dhelmise are also not getting analysis

>>31049558
Steel types, duh.

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>>31032189
>mfw i feast on people's tears as I BTFO them with my stall team

Currently #15 on the Gen7 OU Ladder, 1800 ELO.

I love people getting mad at me using an effective playstyle, especially this generation with all the new offensive threats.

Stall is fun, and necessary if you want to win consistently.

>>31034106
thats a fucking terrible team

more importantly, what the FUCK is that trash ass porygon z set?
fucking thunder wave and hyper beam?
come on now

just run z move conversion like everyone else
if you want to win consistently don't run weird special snowflake shit, run typical shit because it works for a reason

>>31034229
dude, whats your ELO on showdown?

>>31050506
Stall is probably very effective but I can't bring my self to play it because it's so unfun.

>>31034432
use kingdra if you can get it
and araquanid.

with those trio including pelipper you will wreck early battle tree

>>31050506
Kek, my hyper offense team breaks right through plebs like you. Currently sitting at exactly 1914 ELO. Stay mad, stallcuck.

>>31050506
Why are you dumping the leftover 4 EVs into SpD/Def/SpA and not Speed? The odds of them making a difference in any conceivable calculation are fucking tiny; far tinier than the odds of a speed tie loss fucking you.

>>31044037
>aerial ace on mega scizor

Never, and no. Run either Brutal Swing for Marowak, or U Turn.

Aerial Ace hits nothing that other moves can't.

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>>31048454
>>31048454
Uh, Magearna is never getting banned to Ubers.

You don't seriously think it deserves to be banned from OU, right?

It's not at all broken, and very easy to check.

Genesect on the other hand is an example of a broken Pokemon, and needs to be banned.

Magearna, no.

>>31048737
its only saving grace is rapid spin
otherwise it literally offers nothing else.

if you need a spinner, go for it. it offers no real offensive or defensive threat apart from that

>>31050685
>investing in speed on any mon on a stall team

Yeah, no.
Speed just isn't a factor I need at all. Why would I invest in it at all?

If I have leftover EV's, I always invest them in Def/Spdef. It's literally just logic.

If I was running an offensive team, sure, but this is stall. I want as much defensive bulk as I can get.

>>31050655
>1914 ELO

Just checked the Gen7 OU Ladder, and no one even has that ranked ELO

I can only assume you play on Pokebank OU, or you are just a liar.

Either way, I'm #15 on the ladder for a reason, I'd wreck you.

>>31050638
>>31050638

I used to think the same but then I decided I actually want to win games.

With my offensive team I was tilting too much, so I just switched to stall and I've never looked back.

I just like winning, I don't really care how I do it.

Aiming to get #1 on the ladder before the New Year

>>31050506
imagine how much better your team would be if Chansey could learn Seismic Toss pre-bank.

Tbolt is so shit

>>31050863
But 1 Def/SpD/SpA point is never going to make a difference; 1 Speed point could.

>>31050967
where will it make a difference?
my team is fucking slow as fuck, they're not speed tying with anything that they need to outspeed.

at worst my chansey is outsped by another chansey.

honestly, speed investments are simply wasted on a stall team.

more spdef/def, the better. its really quite simple.

>>31048975
Yes.

can I plz get a 6IV shines dittoo

What set should I run on Lele?

>>31051016
In the very rare event that you end up in a 1v1 mirror, it will make a difference. The alternative is getting 1 (one) extra point in a defense where it will literally never matter.

>its really quite simple
Yeah, it is. One option provides benefit in a very rare scenario, the other provides no benefit whatsoever. You chose the latter.

>>31051097
sent

>>31051111
Scarf

>>31051111
Scarf
Timid
Max SpA, Speed
Moonblast
Psychic
HP Fire
Shadow Ball

>>31051173
Thunderbolt > shadowball.

>>31051197
Shadow Ball wrecks other Leles and has good neutral coverage

>>31051118
btw its not 1 extra point.
its like 3 or 4

I want to make prebank grass monotype team and I'm wondering if there's anything I could remotely try with a grass adamant silvally?

>>31051417
>running any monotype competitively

I mean if you want to win, that's a terrible idea.

But if you're just having fun then grass is a legitimate monotype this gen.
I'd include Tapu Bulu, Kartana and Silvally Grass.

Just look up Silvally's moveset on Showdown and decide what works best

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>>31051232

>>31051417
Nope. Stick with MVenu, Bulu, Amoonguss

>>31051490
My original plan was multiattack for it's only STAB, flame charge to boost its speed and to deal with steel types, rockslide to deal with many of grass' weaknesses (and to get fucked by accuracy rng) and parting shot in case shit gets too hot. But I'm actually not too familiar with teambuilding so I'm not sure if there's an obvious thing I should do that I've missed.

Rough idea for a new smogon team
Empoleon
Gliscor/Lando-T
Gengar/Mimikyu
Porygon Z
Alolacutor
Alolawak
Whatchu think

>>31051528
Last time I checked, Venusaur and Amoongus weren't prebank

>>31051542
>Empoleon
Good
>LandoT
Best bet, go with this
>Gengar
Personal best bet, speed tier is key and poison/ghost/fight is good coverage
>PorygonZ
Good
>Alolacutor
DROP IT. If you're looking for an offensive grass type, go with Kartana. For Dragon, go with Garchomp
>Alolawak
Good

>>31051575
Oh shit, I forgot. Either way, Grass Silvally isn't that good, and Bulu is mandatory. Use Kartana if you want.

If you're hellbent on using Silvally, use either Ground or Fighting. Silvally is not good though.

So I have a bunch of sweeper pokemon
Garchomp, greninja, scizor, metagross, lucario, gyarados, Kartana, lunala, azumarill. And have no idea what tanks or leads to have.
I'm thinking toxapex, snorlax, skarmory or porygon 2.

Are most leads still likenjoy
Taunt the other lead
Set up spikes or sneaky pebbles or whatever
Then kind served it purpose?
Haven't played pokemon like competitive wise since gen 4

>>31051542
>alolan exeggutor

nope.
get rid.
gengar is ok, but losing levitate has made it meh

otherwise nice team

>>31051607
>>31051648
Just wondering, what makes A-Eggs shit? 4x weakness to ice, bad stats, movepool?

>>31051691
errything

>>31051691
Horrible speed, honestly. If it had its current movepool and Mega Sceptile's stats, it would be fine

>>31050506
your team is cancer and i hope you die

>>31051775
woah there friend :^)

did you lose to me recently?

i cant remember because i so often rek scrubs with this stall team

>>31051733
>they didn't give Exeggutor-A 133 base speed
Missed opportunity. Could've had a shitty sprinting tree instead of a shitty regular tree.

>>31051733
It learns Trick Room, could that save it? Then again that fucks up the rest of my team.

>>31051794
I guess that could work, but you need at least 2 room setters to fully abuse the concept, and it comes with the cost of giving up a moveslot. If there was an auto trickroom setter, it would be ok

>>31051792
If it had at least 70 speed, it would be fine and abuse scarf/specs.

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>>31032189
Where's Golisopod? I see it all the time.

Anyway I have a shiny Hakamo-o and would like to use it (rather than just breed a new one). Any advice on the set/stats? Naughty nature+overcoat.

>>31051934
>>31051934
>Golisopod
Shiny toy syndrome/karen fag. That and Decidueye will become less common in the coming year. Even though Decidueye is decent

Since its Naughty, try Sky Uppercut, Clanging Scales, Poison Jab, and Flamethrower

>>31051975
I see. I like Golisopod, was hoping it had some hidden viability.

Thanks for the set, I'll try that. Any suggestions on evs and item?

>>31052058
I'm just going off the top of my head. Life Orb is a must. Run enough SpA to 2hko Celesteela with Flamethrower after rocks, enough attack to ohko the Tapus with Poison Jab, and dump the rest into speed. If you have excess evs, look at what exactly you want to get a kill on and invest in that attacking stat

>>31052170
But yeah, adding to this, Adamant DDance and Modest Special Autotomize/Specs are its only viable sets for now.

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>>31052170
>>31052194
Thanks anon. I'll give those a try, I just kind of wanted to use this shiny since it's my first wild shiny that wasn't chainfished.

>>31052228
That's fair, congrats and good luck

>>31050506
Why Roserade and not Amoongus? I'm genuinely curious, I'd think Amoongus has better bulk, a more accurate sleep-inducer, and access to the rest of the moves it has.

>>31050506

>Stall is fun

only for the staller.

What kills Mega Metagross dead? It tears my team apart.

>>31052280
Thats the point frienderino ;3
Draining the enjoyment of the stallee only adds to the staller's fun.

>>31052315

Mega Scizor

>>31052263
I play pre bank OU and Amoonguss is only available through Pokebank

Otherwise you are right, I would absolutely use Amoonguss

Best nature for Megamance? Smogon says adamant but I've seen a lot of people here using a different nature.

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So I caught Lunala in a Moon Ball and it has a Modest nature (thank you abra) and a spread of 17/7/22/31/31/31 what should I do with it?

I like it and want to use my big bat friend (and I hear it's pretty good because of it's ability).

>>31052357
Roserade is obtainable pre-bank?

>>31052566
252 spa and speed
Calm Mind
Moongiest beam
Moonblast/ice beam/focus blast/roost
Psyshock/psychic/roost

>>31052621
Not him but
Island scan provides a Roselia if used on Wednesday on Ula Ula island.

>>31052665
Well fuck me thats useful. Thanks for the info, mind if I try your team out on the battle spot?

>>31052718
I'm sorry I don't have a battle spot team yet, still playing the story. Or are you talking to the original anon you were replying to?

>>31052649
Thanks bro I'll play around with those options

>>31052315
Mega Scizor with Brutal Swing, Scarf Lele with Shadow Ball, Specs Ash Greninja with Dark Pulse, I think Scarf Hoopa U (not sure though), Alolawak is a check, Skarmory if lacking Thunder Punch, Specs/Scarf Magnezone if lacking Hammer Arm, and I think Mega Sabeleye havent tested that yet

Is it worth trying to breed a competitive weavile before the bank comes out? Since Knock Off seems to be its strongest STAB, and all.

>>31052790
Yeah, weavile is great. Knock off, Ice Crash, Low Kick, Poison Jab

>>31052718
hello i am the stall team user you originally replied to
do you want my team?

>>31053056
*Ice Shard instead of Low Kick, unless you really hate Ferrothorn

>>31053070
Yee, I'll just breed or inject it into my game,I just wanted to ask your permission before doing so.

>>31053070
>>31052718
and yeah sure you can use my team

here it is

http://pastebin.com/1SM6uecp

normally i'd suggest you to change some moves if you want, but honestly i think all of those moves are essential. perhaps you can put haze on the toxapex

>>31053140
>>31050506
hi i'm running a stall team too
should i run baneful bunker or haze?

i see that you've run bunker on yours but I often come across sweepers and regret not having haze.

do you think i should have haze or bunker?

>>31053251
i use bunker because i like to toxic stall a lot.
I just personally find I'm using bunker more than haze.

also haze isnt too useful as by the time youve used it theyve already inflicted the boosted damage on you anyway. in most situations anyhow.

i just personally find bunker more useful than haze :^)

>>31038155
>what are mythical pokemon

>>31050506
cool team my man, roserade is my favourite pokemon

do you ever have trouble with alolan marowak or kartana? they seem like big threats to your team

>>31054828
i have a fair amount of trouble with alolan marowak, but if sableye is at full i just foul play and OHKO it.

kartana isnt a problem at all, skarm completely hard walls it, and when they try to z move all out pummeling, i just predict it and switch to sableye.

as you can see my skarm is max def.

>>31054872
yeah dude just predict it lol, it isn't even a threat my man :^)

foul play doesn't always ohko alolan marowak iirc

also just noticed subcoil zygarde is threatening to your team as well. any particular reason you run tbolt over ice beam on chansey

>>31054937
actually ignore that, chansey's ice beam doesn't break a sub usually
last mon sub coil zygarde sets up on your entire team and simply wins

>>31055021
>>31054937
the only three things that can beat my team are:
Sub Buzzwole
Taunt Lele
Tail Glow Xurkitree


Coil zygarde is not a problem at all. I have never been swept by them as I am good enough to make sure I'm not in a position to be swept.
Spikes stacking helps ALOT

>>31055114
i mean couldn't you say the same thing about sub buzzwole, or any of the other mons really
if tspikes aren't up zygarde wins

>>31055154
no I can't say the same about sub buzzwole.
sub buzzwole just has to get behind a sub and he gets a kill. skarm can only take one focus punch.

with coil zygarde i can just whirlwind him out ASAP. remember, my skarm is max def so it takes nothing from thousand arrows the first time

>>31055163
i mean, in a last mon scenario and if tspikes aren't up zygarde wins

also i'm pretty sure buzzwole can't 2hko sableye, if it's toxic'd you can just stall it