Judge announces more strict anti hacking rules on twitter

>>30998325
inb4 some injectard brings a beast ball aerodactyl to an event and cries on /vp/ about how it's not cheating when he gets caught

>>30998325
I heard the judges at the European Internationals pulled Serebii aside to ask his assistance to confirm if something was hacked or not.

>>30998325
But injecting isn't cheating. Why do they care if you're just taking a shortcut?

>>30998342
the least that genners and injectors could do is be fucking discreet about it. Like I get cutting out the grinding and getting stuff that's ultimately the same anyway but stupid shit like beast ball porygon and changing ivs and evs in between matches deserves to be penalized.

>>30998376
>Cheating Isnt cheating
Nice bait

>>30998398
But it's not cheating. If the injected pokemon has legal moves and stats, it's fine. It's just saving time.

>>30998398
>>30998376
No, fuck off with this shit

Injecting isn't cheating in the sense that it produces the same Pokemon you can get by breeding, just faster

BUT, Injecting is cheating because you are using external software to gain an advantage on other people by not putting in time or effort into getting these Pokemon

>>30998376
kys

>>30998414
>It's just saving time.
That's the cheating part. Ever heard of how time is your most valuable resource?

Gamefreak really wants Pokemon to be about grinding rather than actual skill.
At least it explains Go

>>30998376
>Steroids are just a shortcut
>Steroids are literal injections
>Steroids are cheating

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Verlis must be overjoyed

>>30998414
Nope wrong again.
Any use of an external device Game shark/action replay/poke gen/pokehex
Is considered cheating within the VGC rules.
Breeding a pokemon with an injected pokemon is also against the rules. While near impossible to prove.

>>30998414
It will also be undetectable if you only hack legal 'mons, so everything will be fine.

>>30998414
>>30998376
>>30998417
It never ceases to amaze me how similar the argument for injecting Pokemon looks to the argument for steroid use in professional sports.

>It's not cheating!
>I'm just speeding up a natural process!
>I could do this with time, I'm just making it a little easier!
>Sports are better when you let us do this!

Why aren't you injecting 6 IV parents, /vp/? Offspring are still legit.

>>30998450
This.

>>30998417
Sorry, but steroids can get you results that you could theoretically obtain with enough effort too. Are steroids cheating? I mean it is just injecting.

>traveling to play Pokemon

>>30998448
Steroids+training produces a vastly higher ceiling than just one or the other, while injecting does not

Is powersaving considered injecting? Do they care about powersaving for shiny and IV mods?

What's this 'manual hack check'?

Individuals shouldn't have the upper hand with luck through soft resetting. You can spend months getting a perfect mon that someone else caught in 15 minutes.

>>30998445
Wait until the games start keeping track of parentage and you have to account for all of them. This is where genning is pushing us.

Most people aren't stupid enough to make obvious hacks. If your dumb enough to do shit like a porygon in a beast ball you deserve to be disqualified on the basis of your stupidity. Make sure the ball you want is legal on that pokemon and make sure you give it legal moves, it's piss easy to make them "legal".

>>30998417
>Cheating isn't cheating because it just let's you do a thing anyone else can do but faster.
>But cheating is also cheating because it uses an external device to do so.

Are you retarded or on some serious drugs?

>>30998460
Cheating is cheating bruh, no need to split hairs about it.

What's really screwing VGC over is that it doesn't have tournament versions of Pokemon. Competitors can submit their team beforehand, making copies to the VGC network, and their team will be transferred to the 3DS they're competing on.
Mons can be checked and mons can't be changed once submitted

>>30998460
>injects take way less time to get a Lv100 Shiny, hexaperfect, ev-trained pokémon with right nature and moves

Sounds like a higher ceiling

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>>30998461
>using powersaves

>>30998420
Nice argument Verlisify. There's nothing wrong with injecting as long as you don't give pokemon illegal moves/balls.

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It's only cheating if you get caught.

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>>30998493

>>30998325
I don't know much about competitive or cheating but doesn't this just target the idiots who make illegal combinations or have a hacked 3ds? Isn't it impossible to tell a legit shiny from a non legit one?

I also thought most people would have a non-hacked 3ds if they went to events and transfered all their injected pokemon.

>Don't like the process
>Just want the end result
>Satisfied watching someone else do the work

Are injectfags the cucks of the pokemon world?

>>30998461
>What's this 'manual hack check'?
It's so someone can scan over your mons to make sure they're not illegal to prevent things like Beast Ball Porygon2 or Dream Ball Aegislash from happening again. These rules do nothing to actually stop injecting though because a well-injected mon is impossible to spot when lined up with legit ones and if anyone asks you if your mons are injected just tell them no.

>use a bot or inject a character into WoW at max level with endgame equipment
>Go into pvp and shrek people
>it's not cheating because anyone can do it. I just did it faster XD

>>30998490
The ceiling is identical in both cases. Desired IVs, desired moves, desired nature, desired EVs. Whereas steroids really do increase your maximum achievable muscle mass vs not using steroids

>>30998460
Yeah, I'm sure all the sets requiring exact IVs for Hidden Powers essential to sets would have been used without hacking too.

>>30998508
injected shiny are nearly impossible to tell. powersaved pokemon have a changed secret trainer ID from the actual trainer ID so it's easy to just compare the two and see the mismatch.

>>30998513
They should start power cycling systems to check for custom firmware.

>>30998448
>>30998457

Except Steroids don't really have a limit you can reach, right? Just use them more and more and get stronger and stronger. When it comes to Pokemon, that Alakazam will always have 156 max Sp.atk no matter what you do

>>30998474
Did you not read it correctly? I said injecting isn't cheating "in a way" because you are getting the same Pokemon that you can get by breeding. If you take that into account, you can see how it isn't really cheating. I also did confirm that it is still cheating however, because you are using external software

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>failure to save battle video is a game loss

Outside of that it's okay.

>>30998521
Theoretically someone might be able to obtain similar muscle mass through normal means, your argument will always lose and you should find a different one.

>>30998536
>Except Steroids don't really have a limit you can reach, right? Just use them more and more and get stronger and stronger
Congrats, it's 2 hours into the 24th and you've won the award for "Most Retarded Thing I've Read Today" already.

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>>30998529
Then hackers will just find a burner 2DS to do injecting on and then trade over to a system that doesn't have Homebrew. Nintendo is actually making extra cash that way so I wouldn't be surprised if they started doing that.

>>30998539
No, even theoretically the maximum return from increasing exercise is higher if you use steroids. It's the same reason even a woman who eats exactly the most fitness-enhancing diet and exercising to exactly the point of maximum gains will never be able to reach the level of a man whose regimen was less than ideal

>>30998457
you fucking mongloid, steroids are banned because assuming everone has the same natural physique, Steroids push them further which not only gives the person an advantage, but also can cause health issues.

I'm agianst injecting things like that (personally I feel the cosmetic stuff should mean squat) but understand something before you make a comparison. Injecting cuts time to reach the same end goal that a person breeding would have reached on their own.

>>30998538
They forgot to list the starter pokemon as pokemon that should only be in pokeballs.
So either we are getting starters in other balls soon from event or Pokémon company has no idea what it's doing...I think we all know the right answer

>>30998545
Hey buddy, I don't fucking know how steroids work. I'm pretty sure 99% of you fuckers who bring up that comparison don't either, you just use it because it's the only thing you can think of

Desu, there should be a point where common sense takes precedence
If a Pokemon's original trainer is "PKHex" and it's a flawless shiny with 5 perfect IVs and a 0 in Attack for Foul Play, it ought to be taken at face value.

Injecting is cheating the same way as jaywalking is breaking the law: definitely illegal, but in the end an ultimately meaningless offense.

Injecting doesn't inherently make anyone a better player. It doesn't really have any affect on the actual game being played whatsoever. However, it's still cheating, so it's not something that should be encouraged. It just should not be punished in the same way as, say, an aimbot in a FPS.

>>30998475

Yeah man, no need to split hairs, just like how jaywalking might as well be fucking first degree murder.

>>30998575
The starters still don't have their HA released yet so it's possible that more ball options will be a thing.

>>30998575
Primarina is gonna be able to be in a Love Ball soon right?

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>people arguing against injecting
Get the fuck out Verlisfags.

>>30998575
is this masterful bait, or are you legit a retard?

>>30998616
I don't like injecting because it's boring.

>>30998626
Idk how it's bait. He's just pointing out that the documents don't specifiy the starters needing to be in Pokeballs and how either we're getting special ball starters or the company fucked up

>>30998590
>If a Pokemon's original trainer is "PKHex"
trainer ID can easily be changed
>it's a flawless shiny with 5 perfect IVs and a 0 in Attack for Foul Play
that's entirely possible through breeding. try harder faglord

>>30998589
It's not even about steroids specifically, you just implied a human with enough steroids can keep growing stronger without limits. That's fucking idiotic.

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>>30998644
>but running around in circles is fun

>>30998649
but anon all i know is anime and goku

>>30998652
It's a mindless way to kill time

Lapsed Genwunner here looking into this competitive scene.

This caught my eye: >>30998529

...Do tournaments run games on player-brought hardware? This seems baffling to me. As an old CS and Quake player running anything with real stakes on a BYOC is lunacy.

It doesn't matter if they're the same. The point is that it's cheating and you guys are too autistic to admit you're cheating at a kids game. Holy shit.

You're the reason we live in this meta.

>>30998529
I do all my hacking on a separate 3DS. This wouldn't help much.

>>30998649
But it's obvious what I'm trying to say right? Stop nitpicking. Steroids make you stronger when you use them, injecting has a strict limit that you can't bypass no matter what, which can also be reached by non injecters

>>30998653
>I AM SILLY

>>30998683
But injecting is not cheating you dense fuck.

>>30998592
Yeah. I'm calling bullshit.
Do you honestly think half the top players in VGC would be where they are at. Or even play if they couldn't get a perfect team in an hour?
I honestly doubt that.

Cheating undermines healthy, friendly, competition. Which is what TPC strives for in TGC and is trying to do with VGC.

People see the blatant cheating with nearly zero consequence and either see it as acceptable or stupid and just don't try the format out.

That's not okay for any sort of competition.

>>30998683
This is what gets me. If you want to cheat, who cares, but at least admit it. It's a fucking anonymous board

>>30998676
It has to be a cart purchased in your region.

>>30998703
lol faggot

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>this thread

>>30998720
>legitfags
Calmly and methodically point out how injection is cheating and it's silly to deny it.
>injectfags
FUCK OFF VERSILIFAGS INJECTION ISN'T CHEATING YOU CAN GET TEH SAME RESULTS IT JUST SAVES TIME IT'S NOT CHEATING

>>30998569
They already do that, notice how the battle interface likes to show some relevant and some irrelevant stats

Some guy in the worlds had 6 pokemon caught, meaning he didn't even have a starter.

Why not just ignoring the fucking cartridge and a play a game that rewards skill and ingenuity on Pokemon Showdown

>>30998616
Wtf is a versilis? And what's it got to do with cheating?

>>30998720
https://www.reddit.com/
Faggot

Injecting has an idiot test attached and verlisifags are only complaining because they're too stupid to pass it.

>>30998720
I've seen both sides act like both the left and right, 2bh

Also please take your Reddit memes elsewhere

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>>30998747
lol

>injecting isn't cheating! it's just skipping what everyone else does to get the same result!
There's people saying this here unironically.

Breeding and stat training is part of the process, people spend a lot of time raising their pokemon to be as strong as they can possibly be and getting them the right moves to be competitively viable.

This injection shit undermines every one of those people.

>>30998747
Pokemon Showdown has bugged interactions.

But TPCi should really provide players with the Pokemon they request. Literally all "esports" do that. Beyond the stats, the ball and shiny status is cosmetic.

>>30998743
>Legitfags
IT'S FUCKING CHEATING STEROIDS AND ATHLETES YOU HAVE AN ADVANTAGE
>Injectfags
FUCK OFF VERSILIFAGS INJECTING ISN'T CHEATING YOU GET THE SAME RESULTS

>>30998761
GameShark has a monetary test, poor fag are just upset they are too poor to pass it xD

>>30998703
As opposed to what? This isn't a contest of who can breed better. I think TCPI is trying too hard to go the esports route without having everything "unlocked" for tournament participants.

just inject it ;^)

>>30998702
Yes it is. It literally is. It's using external software that is banned by the VGC. Injecting and hacking in Pokemon is literally banned from tournaments because it's considered a form of cheating. You can't argue this, there's no if ands or buts about this. It's defined cheating.

>>30998713
But it's still an official tournament with real stakes run on essentially BYOC setups?

That's dumb. There should be an official system by which your save is uploaded to some server in the venue day one, then when match time comes, you scan some QR code which downloads your uploaded save to a Nintendo-Provided 3DS.

>>30998325
Literally who cares?
They're not gaining an advantage in battle, they're just saving time, why does anyone fucking care?

>>30998518
WoW PvP takes more skill (reaction time, positioning, etc) than this game which is really just knowledge-based( and I guess prediction if you think that's separate).

>>30998761
This. The verlisfags just can't figure out how to hack so they're mad at us for injecting. Meanwhile they beg for 6iv Dittos.

Please observe how quick injectfags are to turn to strawmanning and accusing legitfags of being Verlisify fans.

>>30998441
>>30998448
Except that Steroids make you stronger than you could have gotten without them

>>30998798
>accuses others of strawmanning by using a strawman

>5.2. Case 2 – Severe Tier 2
>Any Legendary or Mythical Pokémon (with the black clover) that has Hidden Power as a Fighting-type move.
What
h
y

If the result is the same whether you inject or manually train, whats the issue?

>>30998810
I'm not sure how hidden power works from gen 6 onwards, but I assume the guaranteed 3 max IVs means fighting type is literally unobtainable for them.

>>30998784
What do you mean opposed to what?

Obviously the TPC want you to actually breed pokemon like your supposed to.
That's common sense.

>>30998798
>I-I don't watch verlisify, I swear!!1!!!

>>30998810
You need 4 even IVs for HP Fighting and they all come with 3 or more 31s

>>30998810
Legendaries and mythicals have guaranteed 3 perf IVs now. Can't get HP fighting like that. Can't wait for some retard to get BTFO'd for that.

>>30998536
Actually, after researching pkhex more it actually doesn't produce the exact data you expect. There's this meme people have fallen for that it corrects hidden hex values, but that's technically impossible to do given that it would have to determine where a pokemon was caught within a certain area. As in tall grass, cave, under a rock etc. There's also this issue where the memories don't particularly match up, and even old mon have completely different PIDs to the ones you have generated by pkhex. Another noticable factor is that if you set all IVs to 31, it always defaults the characteristic to the first IV in the spread (HP), which is wrong due to characteristics being tied to PID AND IVs. So if two IVs are equal, there is no way in hell that all these genned pokemon should be "takes plenty of siestas".

How do I know? I have been using pokegen, pokesave and pkhex more in-depth than most of you apes for the past 7 or 8 years. Trust me, that shit doesn't add up, the only thing you can get away with is the dittos - it's literally an undetectable factor in breeding. This is the only thing I actually accept as a "properly legit" form of using a third party device. I couldnt also care less about item cheats, it's literally just a value change in the address for item in x slot and quantity of item in x slot.

>>30998801
Half true.

Think of it in RPG terms

Humans get a base EXP gain of 100%
Talent and Genetics can raise this amount, so you gain EXP faster.
Performance Enhancing Drugs gives a flat bonus %, so the untalented can compete with the talented by training. You don't automatically become stronger or smarter, you get it faster.

This is me blowing air out of my ass

>>30998788
"to act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage" Is time really an advantage? Is having a life an advantage? How does it feel like to breed all day you dog fucker?

>>30998810
Because it's not possible.

>>30998840
>This is me blowing air out of my ass

Well at least you know.

inject me

>>30998826
Thanks for proving me right with your strawman ;^)

>>30998573
That's not how it works. There's no such thing as a "ceiling". What you get are diminishing returns. And progress is progress.
Steroids directly affect your body chemistry quickly.
You can get those same body chemistry changes to occur over long periods of time without steroids. Your body is surprisingly easy to influence if you know what you're doing. You just have carefully adjust your lifestyle, diet, and exercise, and maintain the correct balance for a few years to get the same results.
You can have a body like a hulking mr. universe bodybuilder, you just have to put in the WORK.

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>>30998795
I really wish the GTS exploit was still a thing.

>injecting doesn't give any advantage!
Tell that to Se Jun Park.

>>30998852
Buy me dinner first.

>>30998841
>I can't make circular motions with my thumb while watching a movie

Fuck, even if you don't wanna do that, there's the (slow-ass) poke pelago

>>30998856
By this reasoning a woman should be able to become the strongest person in the world if she just trains long enough. But that's not true. Androgen levels matter

>>30998841
>all day
You've obviously never bred a competitive mon before.

>>30998841
"Having a life"
Pretty sure you flush that away once you play Pokémon professionally no offense.

>>30998850
That said, performance enhancers don't instantly give you gains. You still need to work out.

>>30998824
I'm not so sure they ever really wanted that. Notice how alot of people got away with so much over there years. I think they've accepted genning, but not formally to the public.

>>30998865
What do you want to eat?

>>30998902
They should really just put a genning tool in the game available after you complete your Pokedex. There's no competitive value in requiring breeding or anything. But they'll never do this because they want to stay true to the spirit of Tajiri's autismic bug catching simulator

>>30998342
As I understand it, the head judge at larger events such as Nationals can make an on-the-spot ruling about things like that. You'd get away with it at Premier Challenges and maybe Regionals where the worst they can do is call you in for a more in-depth hack check in the hope that something else was more explicitly illegal.

It's basically the same rule as how you can be disqualified for walking up to a judge and telling them you've hacked your team, they can DQ you for it even if they can't detect the hack.
I know a guy who did that and thought he was being really smart

>>30998888
Play a couple of games of battlespot and showdown for like 30 minutes as opposed to breeding like a labrat all day for like 2 pokes I might not even want to use by next week. Nigga I stopped breeding a week ago because I realized I can make the exact same mon in a minute,and make it seem 100% legit. If it passes the battlespot i'm gucci.

>>30998924
No, they should provide players with the teams they need for competitive tournaments

>>30998325
This is good. Does nothing to stop injectors (shit this is practically a guide on how to gen perfect legal pokemon), which is fine since that's not what matters. The key here is it stops people from cheating in the tournaments.

>but that's not enough to deal with the genning cheaters!
Doesn't matter where the chess pieces come from, so long as they look right and you move them the way you're supposed to.

>>30998935
That's what QR teams are for but that isn't out yet

>>30998795
>>30998761
>ad hominem
Neat, but do you have a real argument?

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It's Gamefreak's fault for making such a retarded and tedious system in the first place.
Almost no one would care about injecting if the process of getting a competitively viable Pokemon wasn't so ass backwards.

Here's a checklist for minimizing the importance of injecting:

>Online battles automatically bump a Pokemon's virtual IVs to max (Advanced options let you customize this)
>The stats a nature affects can be customized with little to no hassle
>All egg moves are available as tutors
>Hidden abilities can be unlocked with a certain item
>Hidden Power can be changed for a certain in-game fee
>You can swap a Pokemon's ball for any other you have

There, now any Pokemon you catch on a route can easily reach peak performance. No jumping through hoops and performing magic rituals necessary.

I'm sure you'll manage to come up with a complaint no one but a literal autist would actually care about though.

>tfw 3DS's are current firmware
>tfw can't inject
REMOVE IVS

>>30998955
Nice Beast Ball Poyrgon, retard.

>>30998529

Anyone with half a brain does all their cheating on a separate device

>>30998935
I feel like this is the next step in TPCI's esports journey. Nothing about breeding sounds competitive.

>>30998888
quads of truth.

Honestly though, it takes little effort and not that much time to breed. I would say the only parts that actually take time, and especially in SM is the leveling for evolution. You don't even have to bother with EVs since pelago does it all for you. While it may be slow, it's still completely passive so you arent losing time from your life whatsoever. I just find it really unnecessary to inject, unless it's something ridiculous like shiny shaymin. Because you literally cannot get that unless you cheat in some form or had one from 2009, which I really fucking doubt you do.

Though there is an alt method, still requires some cheats. But exporting the data in pokesav for that would work flawlessly and 100% accurately. However, still the need for a cheat device is there. I CAN understand this form of injecting, I can understand dittos and good breeding parents in general. The pokemon is born with a completely clean slate and 100% exactly perfect legit data.

The other case I may understand is hidden power farming. I farmed hours for 2 HP ice xurkitrees, hp ice Koko, hp fire Lele, Fini and hp ice Nihilego. THIS shit is easier when injected, but you're presented with the flaws found here >>30998837

>>30998795
Niggas be using hacked mons to breed their shit. Makes me laugh.

>>30998978
Breeding isn't horrible but team testing and modifying is just too slow.

you should be glad nintendo is backing competitive pokemon in the first place.

smash is a million times better suited for esports and yet gets ignored

>>30998837
I'm a breederfag, I dislike injecting myself because if I want a Pokemon instantly, I'll play showdown or something. I don't know how all these hidden details come into play seeing as how I have never touched the programs. I still think that injecting is fine because it produces the same exact Pokemon statwise, which is all that matters to me. My bred max ATK Tsareena will have 189 at lv 50, the same as the injected Tsareena will have.

I hate both sides of the arguement. Injectorfags claiming that they aren't cheating, which they explicitly are by using an external software while legitfags say they are cheating when all their doing is not wasting time. They don't get some super Pokemon out of it, they get the samething everyone gets

>>30998837
Not sure if I'm reading this right, but why don't all my genned mons say they take plenty of siestas since they all have 31 hp iv's?

>>30998744
>Some guy in the worlds had 6 pokemon caught, meaning he didn't even have a starter.
My fucking sides

>>30998325

That's literally just a guide to hacking without getting caught.

>>30999041
I don't see the problem here

>>30999021
Wasn't some guy at Worlds last year unable to Mega Evolve Rayquaza because he didn't bother finishing Delta Episode?

>>30999021
Sucks that genning his mons got him to worlds. If only he had real skill.

>>30999002
>smash is a million times better suited for esports and yet gets ignored
Because Melee is over a decade old and looks like vomit

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>>30999054
this bait is getting stale

>>30999054
Amazing shitpost lad, write another one for me.

>>30999051
Holy shit, that sounds hilarious

So basically this changes nothing for people who know how to inject properly and fucks over people who do it half-assedly. Good riddance.

>>30998513
>Beast Ball Porygon2 or Dream Ball Aegislash
What
Why do their balls matter

>>30998963
IVs are necessary, though.
It helps control over things like confusion damage and speed tiers. The others are rather redundant, but its still an effort thing. You put in the effort, you're rewarded quite well (186 stat points). It's supposed to separate the lazy casuals from the people who actually deserve to have something better. Which even in a "fair" tournament is completely understandable, you wouldn't enter a boxing arena with a newbie slob and expect the opponent to lower themselves to meet the standards of the one who didn't put in effort, right? The same concept applies here, why should pokemon be equal? The whole point is that as a trainer you should be able to breed the best and train the best. Autistic simulator, but it's literally the whole point of the game and show. To complain about breeding and training is to literally hate the entire concept of pokemon besides "m-muh battles".

This is why I wish they would bring in a different format of competition. Like fucking contests, where spectators vote on their fav or some shit. Fucking hair grooming, dyes, accessories, performance structure. etc

>>30999002
>>30999062
Seriously, Nintendo tried to throw their weight behind smash and it failed miserably because everyone still shit all over Smash Wiiu and Smash 3DS for not being melee.

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>>30999089
Why do my Magmar's IVs matter?

>>30999069
Check this one out m8. I rather gen my mons than work 9-5 breeding for free.

>>30999102
I don't get it

>>30999089
Catches idiots

>>30999099
well, they were shit and are pretty much dead online now.

If a friend trades me their pokemon they bred and I use it in a tourney, is that cheating?

>>30999089
their balls makes it obviously they're hacked

>>30999089
Balls can show if a Pokemon is hacked or not super easily. Porygon can't show up in anything but a pokeball right now, but we had some fuck trying to use a Beast Ball Porygon last Worlds like no one would notice. Just like we had someone using an impossible Dream Ball Aegislash before that.

>>30999089
Illegal balls
Poorly hacked Pokémon

There are people on this board who unironicly say and believe using an external device isn't cheating when the rules of the VGC literally say that using an external device is against the rules.

So /vp/ confirmed for illiterate??
Like if the rules didn't blatantly state this I could see the point for debate.

But it does. In black and white.

Now we could argue to WHY should it be considered cheating and whatnot.

And I didn't know who this viserly guy was before this thread but I gather he is an annoying little shit who hates cheating but since he seemseem to be almost everything I hate in a youtuber now ANYONE who hates cheating is assumed to be one of his fans. And according to his number of subs and the number of likes and dislikes of his videos I feel like he doesn't have alot of fans to begin with.

Anyway. Until Nintendo/Game Freak takes that ruling off the VGC ruleset injecting is flat out cheating.
This is not debatable
This is not deniable
This is not an opinion
This is fact.
Anyone who says otherwise either can't read, is a troll, or a complete idiot.

Now if you inject or not I don't care.
But if somebody gets banned from having genned/injected pokemon. It's thier fault and they get what's coming to them but knowing Nintendo they probably won't catch you and the punishment will be super light.

Better save that battle videos though or your fucked.

>>30999130
>>30999129
Ahh

>>30999136
>or your fucked
*you're

>>30999123
Well, maybe Nintendo would be more willing to put their weight behind competitive Smash if the community wouldn't shit on the new games they're trying to sell. Don't complain about Nintendo not doing enough, it's the communities fault for not playing the Smash game they wanted to put their weight behind. Jesus Christ.

>>30999111
His team at worlds in 2013 was confirmed to be 100% hacked. The star of his team was his eviolite magmar which had follow me. Follow me was only obtainable in Pokemon XD which was impossible to RNG. meaning getting 31 for all its IVs was virtually impossible without hacking.

>>30999136
Everyone knows it's literally cheating, but on a practice level it's like "who fucking cares?" it doesn't change how you actually fucking battle, it's not like cutting your rival's tires during a race or some shit.

>>30999130
it was internationals, but pretty much yeah the dude single handedly forced TCPI's hand. He's not even gonna get punished for it tho.

I'm not good at vgc, but is round to round ev and iv changes a prevalent thing?

>>30999046

Me neither, I hacked about 180 mons into my boxes like 3 days after SM came out. I just think it's funny how stupid they are for releasing what is effectively a guide to hacking in VGC.

>>30999155
>which was impossible to RNG
Why?

>>30999175
Injectors will do it, but you're not supposed to be able to at all. When you go into a tourney your Pokemon are locked in a battle box you can't touch. You can't remove items or use items and you can't even put them on your active team. You're not supposed to be able to touch them. But injectors will change their IVs and EVs around if their setup isn't working for them, which is only possible because of external shit.

>>30999184
It's not a breeding move and the Pokemon likely had set IVs.

>>30999175
yes
example is a pokemon with higher speed ivs and evs is faster than the same pokemon but with with no speed ivs and evs

>>30998325
>Some people were asking her and she confirmed players can now also request that competitors have judges manually check their opponents games/Pokemon before matches to ensure EVs and IVs are the same as the match before
Why request and not just straight up force them to write the stats down on the team sheet thingy? A very flawed way of solving this issue IMHO.

>>30999206
The IVs weren't set but it was a shodow pokemon and as such was generated mid battle when it was sent out. the RNG isn't controllable in battle so it couldn't be RNGed. Also the games RNG hasn't been fully figured out yet either.

>>30999184
iirc, the purified pokemon and the shadow pokemon are actually different, meaning that to rng it, you'd have to catch the shadow and then painstakingly purify it just to check stats

>not tossing lots of Pokemon in illegal balls on to Wonder Trade to try and get unsuspecting people in trouble

>>30999093
What a load of word diarrhea. IV's serve no purpose other than to keep the competitive aspect of the game away from people who don't want to/don't have the time to breed and either encourages them to hack or leaves them out of competitive altogether.

Removing IV's would change nothing about the actual gameplay, you would still have natures and EVs for minmaxing stats and minimizing confusion damage/trick room speed. For people who care about the whole "little Billy's Charizard is different from his friend's Charizard" shit it would still exist because little Billy does not understand how EVs and natures work.

Stop thinking of breeding as something to take pride in. There's no skill involved in it, only mindless repetition until the RNG spits out the sequence of integers you want.

>>30999160
There are people (In this thread, no less. Look up a few posts) who will argue otherwise. To some people it's not about whether or not it's cheating based on rules, it's whether or not it's cheating based on whether they think it's just time saving or not.

People will argue themselves into circles to defend this as "not cheating" because they don't think the rules have the right to dictate what is and isn't cheating. When that is literally how one knows what is and isn't cheating in a system like this.

>>30999232
do it anon

>>30999206
I sort of expected that. Im surprised it took so long for them to admit there was a problem. Seems ridiculous but Spikes are going to play to win.

>>30998376
It is, especially if you use pkhex to edit EVs/IVs in a locked battle box.

>>30999155
Seems like if they wanted people to actually take any rules about hacking seriously they would go out of their way to do something about that sort of thing, instead of trying to crack down on players too dumb to use the right pokeball.

>>30999238
Look man. I gen my shit myself. But I feel the removal of IV's will somewhat sway me to start breeding. I used to enjoy breeding in vgc15, then vgc16 came and I had to gen my shit for dem legendaries.

>>30999136
It's """cheating""".

The point people usually try to argue is whether it's immoral or not. With you not gaining any advantage over what could be theoretically achieved within the boundaries of the gameplay, most agree that the answer is "no".

>>30999175
>>30999227
Went to check, it's that the nature is only revealed halfway through the purification process.

You'd have to guess the nature through the stats.

>>30999267
And this is something you wouldn't want...? Wouldn't the optimal game be one that is accessibe/fun without having to use 3rd party tools?

>>30998487
I heard rumours that theyre planning something close to this for the next season with QR rental teams.

>>30999128
Lets say your starving family doesn't like bread, they like say cigarettes, would stealing those be wrong?

>>30999262
I would suggest TCPI look into these fuckers Twitters or youtubes, because none of the idiots who do competitive battling seem to hide this shit except when judges are around. But I'm sure people would get their panties in a twist over shit like that.

They honestly should ask people to "be vigilant" and report people being open about cheating on verified (because it would have to be) twitters and youtubes or whatnot.

>>30998342
If people get caught with stupid shit I will only laugh.

>>30999227
If there's a way to get it legit then he can just pretend he did no matter how unlikely the possibility is. TPCI isn't going to risk banning someone who could've potentially been innocent. This reminds me of Verlis getting angry at some guy with a 6 IV Kyogre in a Dive Ball saying that the chances were too low for him to have gotten it in-game.

>>30999089
Essentially because the rules aren't meant to be "Please hack your Pokémon within these limitations so you don't gain a gameplay advantage". They are "Don't hack your Pokémon".
Even if it doesn't give you an advantage, it shows that you have broken the rules.

There's a bunch of reasons why they don't want hacking to be done
>Increases the chance of gameplay-changing hacks getting through too
>Puts off a lot of more casual players who don't want to play against cheaters
>Promotes sales of third-party devices instead of Nintendo's own
>Many hacking methods also make pirating games a lot easier

>>30999093
>It helps control over things like confusion damage and speed tiers.

>confusion is relevant

>>30999319
>Increases the chance of gameplay-changing hacks getting through too
If Nintendo were remotely competent the chance of this would be zero regardless of how much hacking there was

>>30999319
>>Increases the chance of gameplay-changing hacks getting through too

See I didn't know that, then it's perfectly reasonable to want to prevent that.
The other three reasons are retarded though, luckily you only need one reason

>>30999319
imagine if.... idk....... they didnt design their game around a shit breeding system..... and added an official simulator mode... whoa dude....... .... ...

>>30999102
He wouldn't get that far without that hacked Magmar.

>>30999336
>Other three reasons are retarded
Sure, I mean why would TPCI want more people buying their games?

>>30999317
It's was a 0atk, 5iv timid kyogre in a dive ball

>legitfags just mad they aren't good enough for pokemon battles so they vent their frustrations on injectfags

>>30999339
If you don't like the breeding system, and you don't like how they built the game, then maybe you're playing the wrong game, my dude. Maybe you should look for a different game that more fits what you want, because cheating to avoid playing the game isn't the answer, my man. Sorry, friend.

>>30999301
I don't particularly care how cancerous VGC is since I don't really like doubles, but like it was said earlier in the thread that just looks like a guideline to not get caught. I'd sooner guess the whole point of this guide is for informing the dumb fags that would have used a dream ball aegislash or whatever to just have one less shitstorm relating to their format that sheds more light on how little they really give a shit about their own rules

>>30999353
>synchronize
>he doesn't transfer over his living dex to get tons of critical captures
',:^)

>>30999365
He's just saying, with all this recent esports talk, maybe it's time to branch out, and actually act like they want to delve into that area.

>>30999358
RNG manipulation in Colosseum/Gale of Darkness is possible, though. It's easy to do on emulator and extremely difficult (but possible) to do on retail.
Granted, I'm not sure if any RNG tools for Colo/XD were public in 2013. But it is in fact realistically obtainable.

>>30999010
They all came up that way for me, maybe that part is fixed now? Or the game itself reads the PID and resets the flag? Maybe I just happened to get all siesta mon. It depends, it's hard to tell what's going on because they've taken out a lot of manual shit. It's optimized, and it does pump out near-perfect shit 99% of the time but I know damn well that some of the options we do have are janky.

Honestly the biggest flaw in pkhex are the memories. People just skip over it, and it doesn't make sense half the time because it shows the most recent trades, owners and their respective friendship levels with the mon. They've checked this shit in tournaments but I don't even think the ones checking really understand what should be in there if they aren't checking the data like pkhex does. THAT will force people to learn their shit. I really don't care if people don't mind a slight flaw and inject everything, just so long as they're informed that if they're going for "legit" they better know what they're talking about. I hate it when people pretend like it's legit is all. There seems to be some blurred lines, injected pokemon are neither legal or legit. While usable, they're really just deceptive enough to get away with being undetected.

I can even actually find respect for people who know how to gen absolutely accurately. But 99% of injectors don't and pretend they do. I've often had some of my own requests filled and the retarded injectors here mess up the most obvious shit even. But thank god QR codes exist now.

>>30999353
Except that's actually possible and has a very real chance of happening.

>>30999365
(Not the guy you're replying to)
I personally really enjoy grinding for items, breeding, chaining etc. on cartridge, so preparing teams for VGC isn't a problem for me, but I have literally dozens of friends who play on Showdown but would never go to an event because the hours of preparation required just aren't appealing.
It's a huge barrier for entry and, as much as I hate the fact that so many competitive players don't see obtaining the Pokémon as part of competitive play that they're being measured on (which it is, even if it's a shitty part), VGC events would have far higher attendance if people could just pick their team and instantly have it.

>>30998325
>a manual hack check (for illegal balls, illegal shinies, and impossible attacks)
good
>more strict team sheet penalties
Full fucking retard
>and a bunch of required stuff like battle video saves
wat
>manually check their opponents games/Pokemon before matches to ensure EVs and IVs are the same as the match before
Very good, best thing on list.

Being disqualified for misspelling aerodactyl on a team sheet is full retard.

>>30999427
I believe this helps both genners and breeders alike. It'll stop those unsubtle retards from showing off.

>>30999387
Not every esport needs to be exactly the same as the other. Pokemon is a very specific game and doing half the shit people are suggesting would be to go against what Pokemon is and kind of ruin what makes it unique. Pokemon exists in the state it is, gameplay wise, because it's 7 generations of improvements on an RPG made in the mid 90s about bug fighting. To say we should remove huge chunks of what makes the game what it is in order to streamline the competitive circuit is fucking awful. Just like cheating to speed through that competitive circuit is fucking awful.

People who cheat need to just find a game that will allow them to play the way they've been playing and leave our fucking game alone, because clearly they don't care. Pokemon has a huge single player aspect too, just in case you didn't know. :^)

The QR system has yet to be seen.

>>30999410
I know there are a billion corner cases, but shouldn't the injection program randomize and autofill that information? If the point is to make 'legit' pokemon then the background static should be as automatic as the game.

>>30999184
Former RNGfag here

I didn't delve much into XD, but it likely has only a set number of possible perfect/almost perfect IV spreads and 6x31 was one of the impossible to ontain ones (i.e. it would get NEVER generated by the game's RNG). So Park's Magmar having perfect stats across the board could've given him an unfair advantage in the tournament by dealing a little damage more or taking a little damage less than the best possible legit Follow Me Magmar.

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>>30999411
>1/2 chance that Atk doesn't get picked to be lucky 31
>1/2 Synch goes through
>1/32 chance Atk IV is generated as 0
>(1/32)^2 chance the two leftover IVs are generated as 31

1/131,072 probability. Add the time spent chucking dive balls on Kyogre and watching the cutscene hell before you can actually check.

>>30999410
>Injected pokemon are neither legal or legit
Just curious, how do you define legal and legit?
I've always thought of it as
legal = can pass all hack checks
legit = actually bred or caught on cartridge by a real person through regular gameplay, no unofficial hardware or software used (including sites that capitalise on glitches or programs that generate the files)
I'm not disagreeing with you, I just want to know.

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>>30999472
...It's still possible

>>30999414
Maybe your friends should just stick to playing on showdown, then. No offense. Showdown does paid tourneys now, so maybe they can stop polluting the meta game already with their hacked shit because they don't have the patients to play the game the way they're supposed to. And if they don't have the time to breed and train Pokemon, maybe this isn't the game for them. They don't deserve the Pokemon they use, so maybe they shouldn't be playing this game. Maybe they should dedicate the time they spend battling back into what ever is more important to them than playing the game legit. Just a thought.

And maybe VGC would have higher attendance, sure. But I don't think it would be worth it at all, it would be gutting the series to appeal to people who have no business being there to begin with.

>>30999488
how does adding a sim mode gut the singleplayer experience

>>30999155
Also, isn't a female OT on that particular Magmar impossible or something?

>go to a VGC tournament
>win a match fair and square
>can't save the Battle Video because Vs Recorder is full
>get DQed
w e w
e
w

>>30999488
I'm a legitfag and you're dumb

>>30998325
I love reading threads like this, two super autistic sides throwing shit at each other over so.etling so trivial.

>>30999511
Literally, you should have been aware of your Battle Video storage before hand and cleared up space. This would be a DQ you brought upon yourself for a stupid as fuck reason, congrats. She actually fielded that issue in her twitter thread and that was the answer. "You should've been aware of your own games Battle Video space". Which honestly? Is fair.

>>30999511
>be nip
>go to worlds in melbourne
>don't know english very well
>teamsheets require english
>accidentally misspell protect
>DQ'd
what could go wrong!

>>30999527
Well, congrats on being a legit fag, boyo. I might be dumb, but at least I'm not gay, I guess. Though, I suppose things are getting easier for your people these days, so my heart goes out to you.

>>30999528
At least it's an actual discussion thread compared to the likes of "I wanna stick my weiner into Silvally's butthole!" or "hey /vp/ check out muh bros xDDD".

People defending hacking are the same fedora tippers that justify suicide short cut and solution to their problems "hurr,,,durr,,,we will all die one day,,,i just made it faster,,,". Please keep cheating in real life instead and inject yourselves with bleach lmoa!

>>30999452
I did say it generates most stuff accurately, but because you can't see the details of hidden hex values it's impossible to tell if it really is doing it correctly or not. I would HOPE that they were honest, and surely someone would have called them out if it was horribly flawed. But I wouldn't say it was 100% accurate. The worst cases you would ever see would be in pokemon caught or gifted, rather than bred. I can't even be sure about the PIDs themselves since they took away the generation method and the ability to see which type you're getting etc. I did read on the official discussion that generating something from a previous gen will have an illegal PID but it's literally undetectable because it'll be read as correct if all the flags match. So it's debatable if it really matters that much or not, depends on your personal level of precision.

And like I've mentioned, the biggest problem are the memories because I have literally never seen anyone ever deal with them in a correct manner. I haven't even seen a proper guide. Because for example:

If I export a shaymin from platinum and import it into pkhex, it has no memories. But to truly know what should be there, someone really needs to make a guide on what a poketransfer -> bank -> trade -> trade pokemon's memories look like.

Like... how many people know if platinum's friendship data is still stored with the previous owner? Does it even exist at all? If an injector puts it in their game, does it write a new memory for them being a previous owner? Would that mean that there would be no memory of the OT in the list of previous owners?

This is thee biggest identifier of an injected pokemon. Because nobody explains it. Or has dones testing on how memories should look.

>everyone making a fuss out of teamsheets and hack checks
meanwhile screen peeking is just a "minor gameplay error" and can only result in a game loss after like 3 warnings. TPCi is really retarded

>>30999557
How do you screen peak when the other player is sitting far away in front of you?

Ultimately this is going to change very little. The people that win these events (at least these days, can't say for sure about Ray Rizzo now) are the ones being careful about hacking and will continue to do so.

>>30999365
>>30999488
I genuinely don't get how you can defend breeding this vehemently and even take pride in it. It's completely decoupled from the main gameplay and takes zero skill. It's so "in the way" that it even encourages people to find alternative means to bypass the process, which is evident if you look at the fact that most top players do inject. If that isn't a major game design fault then I don't know what is.

The requirement for breeding in order to compete would be like if you needed to play pachinko for a few hours in order to be able to use Blanka or Chun Li in Street Fighter -- a completely pointless ordeal that changes nothing about how the actual gameplay plays out and only serves to keep even more potential players away from the metagame.

>>30999531
I know but this is so easy to trigger it's almost guaranteed to have a couple of Nigger Bridge asshats DQed and I can't wait to see their tears.

>be presidential candidate
>inject mails with illegal pentagon pizza symbols on unofficial server
>get caught
>lose election and get disqualified
"WAHHH WAHHHHHH WHO CARES BOTH SERVERS DO THE SAME AND ALLOW ME TO SEND AND RECEIVE THE MAILS!"

Hmmm...

>>30999601
Dumb CTRposter.

>>30999601
did you type this up and chuckle to yourself thinking "yeah, this is a clever analogy, i'm smart"?

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>>30999601

>>30999601
really makes you think

>>30999533
Pretty sure that they would bring japanese judges. to the event tho

>>30999442
Ok I was just talking about the VGC of the game bud. Sorry if you didn't get that part. Not sure if you've heard about these deals with esl and cash prizes,but its clear they want the VGC part of the game to become an esport. VGC not the single player experience that no one is really complaining about.

>>30999531
In fairness, Kay isn't a TPCI employee, she just does volunteer judge work for them, and has no input on what the rules are.
Literally every Play! Pokémon employee is primarily a TCG player, the VGC rules are made by them with relatively little consultation with VGC judges.

>>30999634
To add to this. When I mean single player experience I don't mean the people breeding to play VGC.

>>30999629
its australia, all expenses spared

This is kind of like, too little too late. After 2016 was made a total joke by pretty much every major competitor having hacked their team (otherwise you never would have prepared in time), they finally came out with a few more measures.

I'm glad they want to do something but it's still not enough. At worse you'll just get kicked out of the tournament, no biggie. They need hard bans already.

Late dumb question but why would they even need you to save the battle video?

>>30999578
You need to remember that the single player experience for CHILDREN comes first. They go and battle their friend and think WHAT WHY IS YOUR HP HIGHER, WE'RE THE SAME LEVEL. Or WHAT freeze dry on ninetales? HOW? it's supposed to present some kind of magical wonder to the game. You don't see that because you're now an autistic adult with tunnel vision. Some kids don't even look at cheating, and eventually they do find it. But the point is that it's meant to be like "ooooh hidden secret talents" and completely is associated with the gameplay. The concept of the game is being a pokemon master, which involves 1. breeding. 2. training and 3. strategy. To take away breeding is like removing something crucial from lore and it makes actual sense in terms of gene inheritance.

This is the part you miss because all you can think of is COMPETITIVE COMPETITIVE COMPETITIVE. While yes, essentially this IS all setup for competitive - it would totally destroy immersion in the game to just treat these "animal simulations" as mere data.

While I do hate breeding in general, I still don't believe it's that time consuming or difficult. They just need to allow IVs to be changed at any level because right now the bottle caps level req shit is fucking stupid. They also need to absolutely remove move tutors completely and make them fucking TMs. Move tutors are the most cancerous shit the games have.

>>30999614
>>30999620
>>30999617
>it's okay if a woman cheats
Injectfags cuck logic.

>>30999667
I'm expecting that 99% of saved battle videos will never be looked at.
The idea is that pkhex can now be used to edit any part of your save, including your locked battle box. You can easily change movesets of your Pokémon for one battle, then change them back for another.
It would still be difficult to detect IV and EV changes though.
The big problem is how harsh the penalties are for it, especially given screen peaking is just a warning.

>>30999691
Dumb CTRposter.

>>30999667
So people can have proof

>>30999687
>lore
lmao fuck off I'm here to battle not to be autistic

Do you need to put ev's and Iv's in teamsheets btw? Just wondering If I should use showdown to calc everything manually.

>>30999687
>They go and battle their friend and think WHAT WHY IS YOUR HP HIGHER, WE'RE THE SAME LEVEL.
I have yet to meet a single casual (adult or a child) who ever took a look at their Pokemon's stats. Or who didn't just button mash through the level up screen as quickly as possible (unless the Pokemon tried to learn a new move). GameFreak has no fucking idea how its primairy audience plays like, casuals don't give a single fuck about stats, let alone comparing them between friends.

>>30999715
>not be autistic
you kind of are already, if you like battling then go on showdown? Like what the fuck business do you have """"competing"""" on vgc against people who have less competitively viable teams etc because you injected them all faster than them??? What kind of """"battling"""" is that?

the entitlement is strong.
it's not your game, if you don't like breeding or can't understand why it exists, then you're the one who needs to fuck off.

Go play showdown.
You literally don't have to even spend money on anything.

>>30998325
Do you think they will eventually make it so the timer doesn't tick down during the actual turn when animations are playing or actually enforce the no intentional timer stalling what happened in that one regional where the fagatron with the dark void moody smeargle timer stalled that chick?

>>30999687
then decouple that magical wonderland bullshit from the competitive gameplay by adding an official simulator mode.

don't try to pull some "pokemon isn't trying to cater to competefags" when TCPi are literally trying to turn VGC into an esport.

>>30999756
you seem mad that I didn't spend hours getting the same result as you. Tough titties then.

>>30999694
so today i have been fired from my work because my boss found out my degree was purchased through bribery
i just wanted to say fuck you george rusemann you idiot, my aerospace engineer degree is fair and square, i could have wasted years by studying and learning but since i'm a smart black man i have bought one through bribery wih the money i got from stealing iphones from those white sluts husbands
it's literally the same degree, literally same paper and certificates, no difference dumb stem retards salty because i'm not a fucking autist that has fallen for the traditional outdated system
#notcheating #muhdick #lifehacks

>>30999761
They changed how the timer works in SM. Timerstalling your opponent to death is very hard to do now.

>>30999754
I don't understand this contradiction.
You just pointed out that their main audience are casuals who don't care, which means removing IVs would have no influence on?

Literally what?

Can't I just catch a Pokemon and PXHex edit it?

Isn't that still undetectable if I'm not a complete retard?

>>30999756
>it's not your game
yes it is fuck off I spent $40 I'll do what I fucking please

>>30999783
yeah, but it wont have egg moves. Same applies to hatched things though so go nuts. Its a great method.

>>30999776
ah, nice false analogy

The only thing they need to do is BAN hackers. Not disqualification from le tourny, actual BANNED. Lock the cheating system out of online functionality like any other modern game you cheat in. Until they do this I will never take VGC seriously.

>>30999566
they aren't that far away, and also you must keep your 3ds flat on the table to avoid wireless comunication issues. If there was some sort of link cable for connection you'd be able to keep the 3ds in your hands and this wouldn't be a problem.

>>30999775
I'm really not mad that you didn't spend hours, I've made it clear earlier. It's you being super retarded saying you just want to battle and complaining about game mechanics when you have instant gratification in the form of showdown.

I'm just trying to understand why you play VGC and assume you're playing well at all if you just injected immediately and had an avantage.

>XD this is so fun, im totally shitting on all these noobs who haven't had enough time
>XDDD IM SOOOO GOOOD HAHA

Lol all this is is a waste of time. It still won't be able to detect properly genned Pokemon

>>30999797
>Lock the cheating system
comp players who inject use different systems for hacking and for competing

>>30999801
who are you quoting?

>>30999801
>noobs
>in tournaments
you have a "point" for random online matches otherwise you're just a fag. Fuck even the ladders on cart have matchmaking. Sure am just wailing on shitters :^(

>>30998325
Should've been this way from the start imo

>>30999791
Even with eggmoves though
Like, say I want a hacked Tsareena

Couldn't I just grab any Steene, grab a comfey, breed them for a shit egg, PKHex + give it Play Rough, desired IVs/Natures and desired ball?

Or if I get a Legend/UB like Celesteela, I them edit the IVs/Natures/Balls after capturing it legitmateley

Won't that still be undetectable?

>>30998376
you are so fucking dumb

>>30999794
Can't even prove it.

>>30999778
What?

I didn't try to argue what impact removing IVs would have on the game. But your assumption that stats envoke some sense of wonder in little children who just want to solo everything with their starter is as much hilarious as its false.

>>30999785
No, actually, it's not owned by you whatsoever. Have you actually checked what you bought? You bought access to playing the game, you don't own the game or the cartridge - both of those are still owned by nintendo. true story. Of course, they aren't going to do shit - but you still have no rights to demand something when it's not yours to dictate.

>>30999823
yeah as long as the moves are legal you're fine.

>>30999827
It's not false, because if you reread what I had said - they make the discoveries eventually, along with cheating. Which yes does invoke some wonder because it's meant to attract people to do something that others may not know about to have competitive edge.

When I was younger, this definitely existed. I remember talking about fucking mega punch mew, and eventually in platinum teaching people about why my charizard did better than their entire team. This legitimately gave some people an awakening, that this childrens game has some cool "hidden" shit if you took the time to look at it.

>>30999828
oh I'm so sorry you're retarded, it isn't like there's landmark court cases stating the opposite. Sorry.

>>30999694
Battle videos save the data for the pokemon used in them, IVs/EVs included. The saving of the battle videos is how they verify if the IVs/EVs have been modified.

>>30999777
Really, what was changed? I haven't even played S&M yet because it looked bad

>>30999825
not even going to bother because it's so intellectually dishonest it's a joke

an actual analogy that works would be that you got disqualified from a Magic the Gathering tournament because you printed your cards at home instead of buying them as randomly distributed packs at a store. you gain no actual advantage by forging your cards because they are within the confinements of legitimate cards, all you did was shortcut through a tedious process that only wastes your time.

>>30998833
What legendary even wants to run HP fighting? I'm pretty sure most of them get focus miss anyway, which is better 70% of the time.

>>30999898
>only wastes your time
It wastes a bit more than that, for MtG.

>>30999908
its been tripping up a lot of people wanting it on necrozma which doesn't have focus miss.

>>30999878
Except, there's not.
You literally own the cartridge, the physical cartridge. But you do not own any right to the data on it. You paid with this agreement in mind, and thus voids your rights in legal ownership of any copyrighted material.

Holy shit its like you missed the past many years of shitstorms to do with copyright. If you play WoW, do you actually think you own your character? Do you actually believe that they have no right to just up and delete it if they so feel? Because they can. The same thing could be said with the 3ds and the bans they issued to people. Because you know, you just legally have SO much control over digital purchases.

>>30999929
Have you ever read the DMCA?

>>30999601
'Knew breedfags are dumb CTR shills

>>30999929
lol

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>>30999887
The players have two seperate timers (pic rel). If you try to timestall, the timer only goes down for you, not the opponent. It's basically the same mechanism as the one used in speed chess.

>>30999811
Kind of like building the wall, it's a start.

When there is almost zero consequences is it any surprise this shit is overrun with hackers?

>>30999959
That's pretty good honestly.

>>30999929
>>30999878
>>30999828
>>30999785
This is literally all the same stuff as the shit on steam where companies are allowed to pull their games out of your library at anytime if you void the terms of service in the slightest because you didn't buy the game, you bought a license to play the game under the understanding that you had agreed to the terms of service.

Nintendo allows you to purchase a cart that gives you license to play the game, but they're allowed to ban you from online as hard as they want for as long as they want if you break the ToS. Externally editing data breaks the ToS.

They can also brick your 3ds remotely if they really want. It's technically fine if they have significant reason to believe you broke the ToS.

Injecting is cheating.

What's this meme about a magmar or beast ball porygon?

>>30999965
until Pokemon becomes an always-online game where mons are stored on a serverside box hacking is always going to have zero consequences

>>30999984
ok boss

VGC sucks

>>30999980
>breederfags are this dumb
lmaoing at your life

>>30999980
dmca states if you own it physically you're allowed to do whatever the fuck you want to it. You're allowed to inject but ninty is also allowed to ban you for it.
>steam
>WoW
things that use their servers.

>>30998417

But that's the thing. Battling is about who can create and execute the better strategy in that particular fight, not about who grinded the most, otherwise the tournaments would be judged contests like those dog runway things, not competitive battles.

>>30998448

That's a bad analogy. A closer one would be soccer player having to sew the balls and make the sneakers themselves or weightlifters having to fabricate their own barbells and discs. Pokémon are the equipment for competition, not the goal.

> INB4 "But muh pokémon aren't tools"

Yes they are for the particular purpose of tournaments, Get out, N.

>>30999093
>IVs are necessary, though.
No the fuck they're not! you could drop them in favor of a EV cap increase.
>but muh hidden power
Fuck hidden power, not every mon can learn HP and everymon wont get the same mileage out of it and natures need to be abandoned as well or change-able

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>>30999990
>you're saying they could legally do this? I'm guessing if this actually happened there would be a lawsuit and whoever it happened to could sue nintendo for damages and win

You guess wrong. this shit happens all the time in games like overwatch and LoL. Over there they revel in it and even post hacker reactions threatening to sue after they got banned.

>>30998325
Hack legal mons then. It's not that fucking hard hacking something in a legal ball/with legal moves, hell most tools outright tell you whether the poke you made passes legality check or not. The special snowflakes that just have to have illegal ball/shiny/etc combos deserve the bans or DQ's they get.

>>31000040
Dumb hackfag

You modified the game data, you cheated. Fuck off with actually trying to defend your behavior, nobody is listening.

>>31000049
that's a different context, they're getting absolute unfair advantages in battle. Same would happen here if you brought a huge power slaking.

>>31000049
Pokemon is a physical game where data is stored client-side.

Overwatch and LoL are online games where data is stored server-side.

Not comparable scenarios, though I'm not sure why anyone expected people defending breeding to be intelligent enough to understand this.

>play street fighter
>don't want to grind against AI's to get to the good shit with secret characters
>hack in all characters
>play online
>ninjas bust my door down
>they aren't stealthy at all, been deceived by media
>kill me for cheating
tfw

>>31000107
Online or offline is not relevant. Nintendo owns the data.

Stop calling me dumb when you don't know what you are talking about.

Dumb cheater.

>>31000049
I've been saying this in these threads for weeks, but you aren't gonna get anywhere pointing this out. Other esport groups fucking CRUCIFY players who get caught cheating or hacking shit. Can you imagine what would happen if someone went to Worlds in an FPS and was caught using an aim bot? Can you imagine the butthurt from the player and the community reaction?
And the Pokemon VGC communities wants to be accepted as a real esport group, but holy fuck are they not in anyway the same as the others. They could never run with that crowd the way they've been going. All it takes is or someone to point this shit out on a grand scale and the chances of this community being taken seriously would come crumbling the fuck down. We're like the only competitive community that not only defends cheaters, but fucking encourages them. It's broken, and it's the epitome of unhealthy meta.

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>>31000133
>Nintendo owns the data.
>Stop calling me dumb

>>31000122
this, injection is the equivalent of using an unlock all characters code. Breedfags are retarded.

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>Breedfags think that injecting is modifying game code to gain advantage

ayy lmao

>Injectfags try to justify themselves by ''but m-m-muh s-save t-time...''

jesus christ both sides are retarded, and this is coming form an injectfag and breedfag.

>Breedfags acting like their 6iv Chinese/Japanese dittos are TOTALLY and COMPLETELY legal

>>30998653
The answer is she is lying, both are genned.

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>>31000143
>it's the epitome of unhealthy meta.
Funny how you say that in a post-BW timeline

>>31000143
You are conveniently ignoring the subtleties between cheating in way that affects your performance and cheating in a way that doesn't. Using an aimbot affects your performance and gives you an advantage. Using a map hack affects your performance and gives you and advantage.

Using the equivalent of an "unlock all characters" code (hint: this is an injection analogy) does not affect your performance. People who unlocked the characters the "right" way and people who unlocked them the "wrong" way are both on the same level playing field.

This sort of "cheating" being controversial is about as dumb as if people would have complained that Smash tourneys hack the save files to have all characters unlocked from the start.

>>30999990
>beach ball porygon
I want a beach ball themed Pokeball now

>>31000200
Not all of us use hacked Pokemon for breeding, guy. I don't use a 6IV foreign Ditto and I breed 6 IV mons just fine.

>>31000200
the important thing is that you found a way to feel superior to both sides

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>>31000200
>>Injectfags try to justify themselves by ''but m-m-muh s-save t-time...''
>implying they're wrong when you inject a perfectly legal pokemon

>>30998325
Why gts and wonder trade doesnt have a good legalty cheker so people can stop complaining about hacked pokemons online?

>>30998795
Eat all the dicks, injectfags, I say while I'm playing an english fan translation of Dragon Quest Monsters 3D on my hacked N3DSXL.

>>31000143
I agree but you know who is at fault for this right? It's like if I set up a bank but never lock the vault or hire bodyguards, then try to get people to take me seriously. I'm not defending hacker behaviour but Game Freak reaps what they sow.

There is no excuse. There are companies that even make anti-piracy and anti-cheating programs to monitor things in the background of PC games. They are hired out by companies like EA or whatever. If GF is too lazy they can hire someone. The hack checks that did exist (only at these tournaments) are worse than fucking fan hack checks like Pokecheck or whatever it was that existed a few gens ago. And the consquences of being caught are ZERO. GF is rolling in dough and won't even TRY to preserve the integrity of the game.

All the money GF has and the only thing they came up with was Bad Egg over so many generations. It's laughable. VGC can crash and burn(it already is). I will say "serves you right".

>>31000200
>Breedfags acting like their 6iv Chinese/Japanese dittos are TOTALLY and COMPLETELY legal
I honestly don't how they do it. I played through Y in Japanese purely so I could breed up 6IV Japanese fathers for every breeding group and marathoned the Ditto mirage Island with the dex nav to get 4IV Dittos in ORAS for the genderless families.

I suppose I've more or less accepted any Pokemon in Apricorn Balls from Gen VII might be genned somewhere in their family tree, but that's just how it is with the single chance per ball per game. I guess that's my line. Still wouldn't accept anything obviously hacked, though.

The point is, if you're going to be autistic you need to go all the way. There's no point in being a breedfag if you're just going to be using 6IV Dittos. I guess it's because they don't want to have to figure out injecting or whatever.

>>31000143
I don't have any but there's a dozen csgo webms out there of competitive players with aim assists.

>>31000209
REAL funny that you say that in the current Meta. Considering all the fucking Topu-UB. Want another Celesteela or maybe a Koko? At least they look better than the genies, but replacing one pile of shit with another is not productive.

>>31000210
>You are conveniently ignoring the subtleties between cheating in way that affects your performance and cheating in a way that doesn't.
Holy shit, dude. Cheating is cheating. And your analogy is fucking retarded because competitive Pokemon IS fucking breeding. That's what it's meant to be. Cheating retard.

>>31000153
>Hurr I'll just quote it and pretend it's not true
Dumb hacker

>>31000266
wish chansey is why we have pentagon/plus/newgen rule

>>31000246
Pretty much nobody uses 6IV Dittos and says they play legit. This is just shit hackerfags say because they have no argument. They try and drag everyone down to their level by saying they are just as bad. This is really not a thing.

Hackerfags can really just fuck off.

>>31000240
i have to use pkhex to check if a traded pokemon is hacked

>>31000246
>There's no point in being a breedfag if you're just going to be using 6IV Dittos. I guess it's because they don't want to have to figure out injecting or whatever.


Partially, though i dont use Ditto if i need specific egg moves, or if im doing masuda method

>>31000068

Well, YOU are listening since you replied :)

Not that I need to explain myself, but I'm actually 100% legit since gen 5. I gave up on Nintendo being competent enough to make a competitive game long ago and I prefer other games for competitive stuff and playing Pokemon just for single player things.

I do wish, however, that Ninty and GF would make it really competitive and that's why I think the grinding part they want to include is simply stupid.

I don't think hacking is good or bad, what I'm saying when people watch the VCG world finals, everyone cares about who has the better strategy and outpredicted his opponent, not about who is the biggest autist and spent more hours grinding.

>337 replies, 24 images not shown
Don't you people ever get tired of this

>>31000316
no not really I'd just inject my own wish chansey

>>31000254
>Cheating retard.
How is my analogy retarded? Breeding only serves to make a certain pokemon with a certain stat spread and movepool accessible. It's the same as unlocking a character in a fighting game. Once it has been accessed, it no longer matters, so realistically, whether you access it through the intended means or by using 3rd party software does not affect the end result, just like whether you unlock Mewtwo in Smash by idling in a game for 24 hours or by using an Action Replay doesn't matter.

>>31000266
I would not be upset at the player, rather I would question why the people in charge of the game would allow something that is so difficult to obtain into the competition. Luckily, most official tourneys solve this by using the pentagon/cross rules.

>>31000143

That's because you idiots can't understand that the esports part of Pokémon is about battling, not about grinding.

>>31000312
Breedfags get their energy from the egg yolks of breedjects

>>30998653
They are both genned. Someone who takes the time to actually breed perfect IV pokemon aren't going to give them retarded sets.

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>>31000312
Bite me

>>31000316
Is till don't get why people are hacking UBs in. They're already high leveled as fuck. May as well just SR for nature, then grind it the 20 or so levels up to 100 and Golden Bottle cap the thing. Ta-da, done. Perfect. Legal, legit, no cheating necesarry and no one will throw you out of VGC. You can basically buy Rare candies this gen, too. So leveling isn't even that rough.

>>31000346
I assume that image was drawn during the Weather Wars.

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>>31000143
>>31000338
can't believe you actually forced me to illustrate this

What exactly is the problem with pokémon being in "illegal" balls? As long as the moveset is legal why care?

>>31000394
because allowing it means that tournament organizers are displaying a lax stance towards hacking

that's literally the only reason

>>31000404
Then that's a shitty reason if they care so much about hacking they check to see if it's legal otherwise and let it play or have the injector change the ball it shouldn't be an instant DQ

>>31000143
> Other esport groups fucking CRUCIFY players who get caught cheating or hacking shit.
>And the Pokemon VGC communities wants to be accepted as a real esport group, but holy fuck are they not in anyway the same as the others.

Pokemon really isn't any different as a community. It's just hackers never get banned for anything because of GF so nobody bothers pointing them out. Most legit players accepted this ages ago and either stopped caring or fucked off to other games. We'd have the same strong anti cheating view as any other community if you could actually get people banned.

Pokemon GO even manages to hand out bans and people work together to report faggots. And everyone says Niantic is lazy pos. Game Freak just don't give a fuck even though it's ruined their competitive scene which they are trying to get taken seriously. Who knows what is going through Masuda's mind.

"Haha, don't know"

>>31000414
the point about internet arguments isn't to convince the other party that they are wrong, it's to convince neutral third parties that your side is the correct one.

if my 3 minutes in MS paint convinces just one person that injecting is not on the same level as using aimbots then I've done my job.

>>31000384
The point being what exactly? A cheat is a cheat. Whatever part it effects it's still cheating and the tournament is filled with people who cheated. You don't understand the argument because you are dumb. I am not explaining it to you because it should be obvious, if you don't understand it fuck off.

>>31000425
>Who knows what is going through Masuda's mind.
The answer is nothing or how to buff water types even more

>>31000437
>A cheat is a cheat.
In the case of legal pokemon it's a shortcut if it doesn't offer any advantage

>>31000437
If you read through my posts, you'll realize that not once did I say that injecting wasn't cheating. I'm simply pointing out that the reason the competitive community in Pokemon doesn't crucify people who cheat, unlike in FPS and MOBA communities, is because the cheating that happens does not affect any player's performance and doesn't offer an advantage.

>>31000449
The definition of cheating is basically that of a shortcut dumbfuck.

Hurr let me just skip to the credits and save time.

It's CHEATING fuckwit.

>>31000449
it is a cheat because it breaks the rules not because it gives an advantage.

>>31000437
Using third party tools to display hitboxes and frame data when practicing in Melee is cheating as well, but no-one in the competitive smash community reviles people who does that. If "cheating is cheating" like you say, then why aren't those communities crucifying players who abuse such tools?