Defend this

third gym was a nightmare

>>30993553
I still have PTSD form that miltank.
Also gyms back then had like a million trainers.

>>30993553
>4/23 of them are Johtomons
WEW LAD
E
W

L
A
D

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>>30993553
The games are getting easier, clearly.

>>30993553
I don't even like GSC like that, but fuck Whitney. I still get PTSD from that battle

>introduce 100 new pokemon for the region
>only 4 of them are on gym leader teams for said region

what did 1999 gamefreak mean by this?

>>30993615
Gamefreak hated Johto even during Gen II. Notice how the game ends in Kanto, and one of the main draws of the game was getting to go back to Kanto and fight the Kanto trainers. Johto was Kanto's bitch before Kalos was even conceived.

>>30993591
>lets introduce 100 new pokemon
>and make it so you can't get half of them until post game
>also you don't know most exist because trainers don't have them
Classic GF

Falkner - Hoothoot, Pidgeotto or Pidgey, Noctowl

Bugsy - Ledian, Ariados, Heracross

Whitney - Teddiursa, Clefairy, Miltank

Morty - Misdreavus, Haunter, Gengar

Chuck - Hitmontop, Machamp, Poliwrath, Primeape

Jasmine - Skarmory, Magneton, Steelix, Scizor

Pryce - Sneasel, Dewgong, Delibird, Piloswine

Claire is pretty much the best you're going to get in Gen 2.

Did I fix Gen 2 gyms?

>>30993553
Prepare for autism.
>falkner
hoothoot, pidgeotto
>bugsy
Beedrill, yanma, heracross/forretress
>whitney
Fine, maybe add smeargle
>morty
Replace second haunter with misdreavus.
>chuck
Add hitmontop and heracross if bugsy doesn't use it.
>jasmine
Replace second magnemite with skarmory.
>pryce
Replace seel with sneasel.
>clair
At a loss, sorry
>will
Replace jynx and second xatu with espeon and girafarig.
>koga
Relace forretress with quillafish.
>bruno
Got nothing, heracross?
>karen
Replace gengar and vileplume with sneasel and a second umbreon.
>lance
Got nothing.

In conclusion GF had enough resources for better distribution but probably thought they needed to shove kanto mon in places they didn't need to as they worried johto mon weren't as appealing. At least my guess.

>>30993841
Fuck, I keep forgetting to take the name off. Sorry.

>>30993615
Even Kalos gym leaders have atleast one Gen VI mon in their team.

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>>30993553
>4/23 are from Johto
>weakest trainers in entire series
>easy as hell victory road
>easy as hell E4
literally "all style and no substance": the generation. The graphics and music are the best things to come out of it. GF probably knew this and that's why they added Kanto.

Real talk, was Gen 4 the last time we saw Seel and Dewgong in a game

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>>30993841
>lance
i fixed lance

>>30993841
>probably thought they needed to shove kanto mon in places they didn't need to as they worried johto mon weren't as appealing

This is even more bizarre when you remember that a lot of Gen 2's best pokemon DON'T APPEAR UNTIL AFTER YOU BEAT THE GAME

Larvitar was the coolest pseudo, fuck you for not letting me raise one in game

>>30994160
which is ironic since they only added kanto after programmer legend iwatta cut the data usage by half without losing anything important, so they just slapped kanto in without really thinking too hard about it.

At least Red as a final boss was amazing.

>>30993604
dat leer+tail whip combo, yo

>>30994587
>Lance the Dragon Master
>Has a single dragon type pokemon
WHAT A MASTER!

>>30993771
you just fucked an entire generation of children in the ass

>>30993615
GSC was supposed to be the end of the series, the 100 new pokemon were advertised from hell and back because those were the "Kanto sequels" instead of their own thing, they assumed the kids who would play the games would have already finished their 150-151 so they made the new mons harder to catch so they would continue to play it

Hoenn was the first region to truly stand on its own

>>30995498
only dragon types in gen 2 are kingdra and dragonite

>>30995671
He was shit in gen 2 too, we're supposed to be making them better not making them worse.

>>30993720
"the best part about johto was that you got to leave it"

I'll never forget that line, the day gentoowers were absolutely btfo of the universe.

Flying (Falkner)
>Hoothoot/Noctowl (Normal/Flying)
>Togetic (Normal/Flying)
>Ledyba/Ledian (Bug/Flying)
>Yanma (Bug/Flying)
>Skarmory (Steel/Flying)
>Delibird (Ice/Flying)
>Natu/Xatu (Psychic/Flying)
>Lugia (Psychic/Flying)
>Murkrow (Dark/Flying)
>Crobat (Poison/Flying)
>Mantine (Water/Flying)
>Hoppip/Jumpluff/Skiploom (Grass/Flying)
>Ho-Oh (Fire/Flying)
>Gligar (Ground/Flying)

Bug (Bugsy)
>Ledyba/Ledian (Bug/Flying)
>Spinarak/Ariados (Bug/Poison)
>Yanma (Bug/Flying)
>Pineco/Forretress (Bug - Bug/Steel)
>Scizor (Bug/Steel)
>Shuckle (Bug/Rock)
>Heracross (Bug/Fighting)

Normal (Whitney)
>Sentret/Furret (Normal)
>Cleffa (Normal)
>Igglybuff (Normal)
>Aipom (Normal)
>Dunsparce (Normal)
>Snubbull/Granbull (Normal)
>Teddiursa/Ursaring (Normal)
>Porygon2 (Normal)
>Stantler (Normal)
>Smeargle (Normal)
>Miltank (Normal)
>Blissey (Normal)
>Togepi/Togetic (Normal - Normal/Flying)
>Hoothoot/Noctowl (Normal/Flying)
>Girafarig (Normal/Psychic)

Ghost (Morty)
>Misdreavus (Ghost)

Fighting (Chuck)
>Tyrogue/Hitmontop (Fighting)
>Heracross (Bug/Fighting)

Steel (Jasmine)
>Steelix (Steel/Ground)
>Skarmory (Steel/Flying)
>Forretress (Bug/Steel)
>Scizor (Bug/Steel)

Ice (Pryce)
>Swinub/Piloswine (Ice/Ground)
>Delibird (Ice/Flying)
>Smoochum (Ice/Psychic)
>Sneasel (Dark/Ice)

Dragon (Clair)
>Kingdra (Water/Dragon)

Psychic (Will)
>Espeon (Psychic)
>Unown (Psychic)
>Wobbuffet (Psychic)
>Natu/Xatu (Psychic/Flying)
>Lugia (Psychic/Flying)
>Celebi (Psychic/Grass)
>Slowking (Water/Psychic)
>Girafarig (Normal/Psychic)
>Smoochum (Ice/Psychic)

Dark (Karen)
>Umbreon (Dark)
>Murkrow (Dark/Flying)
>Houndour/Houndoom (Dark/Fire)
>Tyranitar (Rock/Dark)

Poison (Janine)
>Crobat (Poison/Flying)
>Spinarak/Ariados (Bug/Poison)
>Qwilfish (Water/Poison)

>>30996016
Now let's remove
>Pokémon whose primary type doesn't match the Gym Leader's (minus Clair and Falkner)
>Legendary/special Pokémon
>Baby Pokémon

>Hoothoot/Noctowl (Normal/Flying)
>Togetic (Normal/Flying)

Bug (Bugsy)
>Ledyba/Ledian (Bug/Flying)
>Spinarak/Ariados (Bug/Poison)
>Yanma (Bug/Flying)
>Pineco/Forretress (Bug - Bug/Steel)
>Scizor (Bug/Steel)
>Shuckle (Bug/Rock)
>Heracross (Bug/Fighting)

Normal (Whitney)
>Sentret/Furret (Normal)
>Aipom (Normal)
>Dunsparce (Normal)
>Snubbull/Granbull (Normal)
>Teddiursa/Ursaring (Normal)
>Porygon2 (Normal)
>Stantler (Normal)
>Smeargle (Normal)
>Miltank (Normal)
>Blissey (Normal)
>Girafarig (Normal/Psychic)

Ghost (Morty)
>Misdreavus (Ghost)

Fighting (Chuck)
>Hitmontop (Fighting)

Steel (Jasmine)
>Steelix (Steel/Ground)
>Skarmory (Steel/Flying)

Ice (Pryce)
>Swinub/Piloswine (Ice/Ground)
>Delibird (Ice/Flying)

Dragon (Clair)
>Kingdra (Water/Dragon)

Psychic (Will)
>Espeon (Psychic)
>Wobbuffet (Psychic)
>Natu/Xatu (Psychic/Flying)

Dark (Karen)
>Umbreon (Dark)
>Murkrow (Dark/Flying)
>Houndour/Houndoom (Dark/Fire)

Poison (Janine)
>Crobat (Poison/Flying)

>>30993771
Bugsy having an ariados would definitely be alot less of a joke to fight than seeing one in the E4 thats for sure.

>>30993572
>Miltank rolling out your entire team to death

I had a similar flashback the moment I saw Guzma's Golisopod do Sword Dance twice. If he didn't have Emergency Exit, his Pokemon would've wiped my entire team out.

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>>30995848

>delicious tears from gentwo haters

keep going, I'm just getting started enjoying my two region title

>>30994160

>no style and substance the generation

What do Gens 4 and 5 have to do with this?

>>30996242
>tears of laughter

Keep trying, toddler.

>>30993553

I wont, and can't because most Gen 2 mons were shitmons to the highest degree. Most of them were just barely viable ingame wise.

>>30995436

imagine if Iwata didn't save their asses. Gold and Silver without the nostalgia bait would have been held and regarded as the worst pokemon games of all time and could have possibly killed the series.

Morty in HGSS was so disproportionately strong for that part of the game. Everyone else was a joke, but something with Gengar's BST and being reasonably high level for that point was a nightmare.

>>30996767
>not having a noctowl with extrasensory

>>30996778
didn't train one. Thought my Croconaw with Bite was going to be enough.

>>30996762
Like literally how hard would this have been.

>>30996762
so your solution is to make bryce and morty easier?

>>30996778

tha'd be nice, if Noctowl had extrasensory by level 20-25. Even so, you couuld still completely wall Gengar with Reflect, and it couldn't even Hypnosis you because of Insomina

>>30993771
>fighting a Heracross on the 2nd gym
This is wrong.

>>30993553
Kingdra was a beast, and Miltank could be tricky if you were new and/or dumb.

Other than that, though... garbage tier gyms.

>>30997890
You can find wild heracross right after (or maybe before, I can't remember) the gym, so it's not as bad as you think. Maybe make it metapod, kakuna, heracross instead?

>>30997924
No, Heracross is too strong for a 2nd gym, it has 125 attack and 85 speed, mid-stage mons controlled by retarded children aren't tanking Horn Attacks and Fury Cutters, you'd also be forcing people to train a Pidgeotto/grind to stand a chance.

>/vp/ hates genwun pandering
>universally loves gentoo typically citing the ultimate fucking genwun pander of all time as one its crowing achievements.
>you literally just go back to fucking kanto. This isn't 'hey its charizard you kids like him right?' Or some npc name dropping a town. You LITERALLY GO BACK TO KANTO.

Explain this shit to me at once.

>>30997890
just don't give it Fury Cutter

>>30993771
official teams

>Faulkner
Hoothoot, Pidgeotto
>Bugsy
Yanma, Ledyba, Heracross
>Whitney
no change
>Morty
Misdreavus, Haunter, Gengar
>Chuck
Poliwrath, Machoke, Hitmontop
>Jasmine
Magneton, Skarmory, Steelix
>Pryce
Seel, Dewgong, Sneasel, Piloswine
>Claire
no change

>>30993841
Lance is perfect, he just has to be called a Flying trainer, not Dragon

>>30998187
Kanto wasn't stale and overused back then.

>>30993553
The teams that should've been

Falkner

>hoothoot
>skamory

Bugsy
>Pineco
>Ledian
>Scizor

Whitney
>Furret
>Miltank

Morty
Replace gastly with misdreavous

Chuck:
>Heracross
>Hitmontop

Jasmine
She's actually fine, maybe I'd evolve one of her magnemites

Pryce
Replace seel with a sneasel

Claire
Nothing to change

The early steel types might be a little too intense, but you can catch growlithe right outside of violet city so deal with it

>>30998187
this is like complaining that Shrek 2 panders to fans of Shrek

>>30998340
No, Scizor is way too strong and you are pigeon holing people into one of like 2 Pokemon. Also you can't get that Growlithe until after the 3rd gym.

>>30998340
Let's give the gym leaders Wonder Guard Spiritomb while we're at it. Toxic and Sandstorm exist, after all.

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>>30993553
>HGSS was the best part of gen 4

>>30998340
>Falkner
>hoothoot
>SKARMORY

If that were the case I don't think anyone would've passed the 2nd gym.

>>30993553
And some claim current games are baby mode.
Even if it is the second gym, a fucking medapod and kakuna is inexcusable, but the unoriginality of the entire roster here absurd.

Lances sister running a dragon gym for example was completely unnecessary.
What about dark types?
You know, the type that was introduced for the sole reason of slapping psychics shit because they literally had no counter in gen1?
No?
k', guess we're playing psychicmon beat everything again.

There's more than a few reasons that I'm not nostalgic for the old gameboy games.

>>30993553
What am I supposed to be defending here? Is it another of /vp/'s autistic nitpicks like muh level curve?

>>30993771
>Noctowl on the first gym
You fucked up. Nothing you get up to that point can handle Noctowl without having 10 levels on it.
It has 100/50/96 bulk, 70 speed, and knows HYPNOSIS.

>>30998473
Level Progressions is shit, but it's a different kind of shit then you're implying, at least after Pryce.

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>>30998645
Low levels don't excuse shitty movesets.

Fantina's Mismagius goes hard despite being only level 26.

In fact, it goes so hard, that they had to give her Haunter a terrible moveset.

>>30998584
>implying gamefreak hasn't fucked around with movesets before
also i fucking beat brock with my fucking pikachu that only knew quick attack and thundershock, kids these days are probably even more competent than retard kids in early 2000's

>>30998044
We just got a game where the second "gym" has a higher BST than 98% of the game's legendaries.

>>30998980
Wait, which one was that

>>30998980
Name ONE legendary with a BST below 175

>>30997658
> and it couldn't even Hypnosis you because of Insomina
>Insomnia
>Ability
>Gen 2

>>30998340

I think you've been playing too many ROMhacks my anon.

>>30998473

To be fair, Johto's level scailing is well known for being shit, so when you're facing Pryce and Archer, you'd most likely still have unevolved shitmons on your team, which would explain the subpar movesets in HGSS, while at that point in Platinum, everything except maybe Gabite would be fully evolved by thing because the level scaling is actually good in Sinnoh.

I mean, yeah, at that point, you'll have a Gyarados, but you dont want to force people to use specific pokemon just to get through, as the game is based upon using an assortment of various monsters with varying movesets and stats.

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>>30998340
>Falkner
>skamory

>Bugsy
>Scizor

>>30998340
Fucking Skarmory in the first gym? If anything why not just a Murkrow?

>>30998584

>Geodude used Rock Throw
>Dunsparce used Defense Curl
>Traded Onix
>Mareep used Thundershock/Wave

also, you fight against a scyther in the second gym with your mons mostly being around level 10-14
and Scyther has comparable bulk while hitting much harder and being much faster.

>>30999196

You do realize he said fucking EXTRASENSORY in his post, right?


Guess which Gen Extrasensory was introduced. Hint: it's after Gen 2 you dilweed

>>30999302
You actually can't catch Mareep until after you beat Falkner.

>>30993572
Rollout was bad enough. Attract and milk are what really made miltank so difficult.

>>30998473
Platinum was pretty good with its difficulty, I really enjoyed that aspect of the game. I feel as though they started toning it down with HGSS because people (children) might've complained or gotten annoyed with the difficulty in Platinum.

>>30998693
fantina does things to my dick i didn't know were possible

>>30995313
>introduce a great new psuedo
>unique type combination
>no weakness to ice
>powerful "dragon" design

>NOPE MORE DRAGONITES
>no trainer EVER uses one at all

Lance was beyond full retard in GS

>>30993553

>HGSS gives Clair a Gyarados instead of one of her Dragonairs
>doesn't change one of Morty's Haunters to Misdreavus

What was the point? Also I've hated this ever since I was a kid.

I'm surprised Faulkner didn't have a Farfetch'd, it would fit perfect in terms of being a 1st Gym leader's specialty Pokemon, plus it could've held it's Stick for some Crithax.

>>30998187
Because Gen II is quantity over quality and /vp/ prefers the former.

>>30993553
No

>>30998044
>goldeen used peck

>>30999036
Totem Wishiwashi, I guess

>>30993572
I still don't get the Miltank meme. A year ago or so I restarted Gold on emulator and the third gym wasn't particularly hard or unfair.

The gym leader Pokemon that people are posting should be based on what their BW2 World Tournament team is running, but some being pre-evos.

>everyone complaining about skarmory / scizor being too hard for early gyms

I mean you're right, but it's kinda sad that we'll never have a "hard mode" option that gives you rom hack-tier difficulty.

(meanwhile in sacred gold / soul silver, Faulkner has: Doduo, Chatot, Murkrow, Farfetch'd, Swablu (with Solar Beam + Power Herb), Pidgeotto)

>>30993553
>1
Can't. Was too easy even with grass starter. Only thing I can say was early evo Pidgeotto helped?

>2
Scyther's base speed outsped most mons you could acquire at that point in the game unless you leveled them up a lot. That with the right moves could suck. Plus Pursuit made it harder to swap-train weaker mons.

>3
Probably the hardest gym leader desu. Milhousetank was a fucking savage.

>4
Eh. Lackluster but shadow ball was nice on his part and even nicer when given as a TM.

>5
Over leveled Poliwrath with lock on and Dynamic Punch was a decent strategy given the point in the game.

>6
You JUST got done a gym battle and you're going into another one? Wow. But desu I never had problems with Jasmine. Maybe her and Chuck should've switched.

>7
Fucking ice floors.

>8
No good ice moves or mons. Dragons know fire moves anyway. No fairy type. Plus you have to go through a trial to get the badge which sucks, but you also get an extreme speed dratini if you're not a complete retard.

All things considered... 7/10
Not bad Johto.

>>30998693
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ahHWROn8M0

>>30996762
>Delibird

>>30993841
>Replace gengar and vileplume with sneasel and a second umbreon.

Karen's trump 'mon should have been a god damn Tyranitar

>>30998044
gen 1 threw a Starmie at you in the second gym, something good enough it stayed OU for 6 gens

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>>30996762
>cleffa

>>30993553
>6th Gym
>Using a first stage of a three stage Pokemon

>>31001661
Magnezone was introduced in gen 4