Pokemon Anime & Movies English Dub Decline

>>30962498
Disney XD is a premium compared to CN.

>>30962498
4Kids made the best dubs and now that they've gone everything's gone tits up.

Hell, even the openings are complete garbage now. The only good ones are the ones up to Diamond/Pearl.

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>>30962525
Yes, but what about the rest? When did the Pokemon dub go beyond redemption?

Was it when the smoker blew TPCi's dick to become the dub Ash?

>>30962498
I think it's unfair to blame the dub on the decline of viewership when all of pokemon was in decline. The dub was indeed shit and while I don't like disney I can't see how they could make it worse.

>>30962619
How can it get any better now, is the question?

It seems like TPCi is actively trying to kill off the dub at this point.

>>30962498
Favorite part is whenever Kirbopher shills the dub. I get that he's friends with the actors and was even part of it during the DP saga, but c'mon man. at least shit on the music changes and voice direction.

>>30962498
Tom "The Rapist" started it all.

>>30962866
Kirbopher also shilled Knotz pretty hard recently, when the truth is, we all know Knotz is a raging cunt.

I bet he thinks Cathcart's script writing is fantastic and thinks all the butchering he does of Team Rocket's characters in the dub is good, same goes for the slang-y lines he gives Ash & co.

>>30962904
He's a pretty talented voice actor, so I guess being nice makes sense in the grand scheme of things. Getting Jobs and shit.

>>30963025
>Kirbopher
>Nice

http://amethystlashiec.tumblr.com/post/149095962046/regarding-chris-kirbopher-niosi

>>30963051
All these internet animators/voice actors seem like shits huh. Did not know this at all.

>>30962550
>4Kids made the best dubs

Ahahahahaha... oh, you're serious? You must have been pretty young at the time to not remember how bad 4Kids dubs were. I'm not defending TPCI either, but holy shit 4Kids was awful.

>>30963161
Pretty much, yeah, Kirbopher's a horny asshole in real life.

Back on topic, I do wonder how bad the Pokemon dub's going to have to get before it gets cancelled on air at this rate. Disney XD is a premium network and the fact the dub only got 110,000 viewers for its premiere on there tells me PokeAni's in deep shit in the States.

I guess the biggest mistake TPCi made was getting rid of 4Kids (Veronica Taylor etc.), honestly.

>>30963181
4Kids' Pokemon dub was actually their best dub and was, overall, a decent enough (arguably good) dub. They even kept the Japanese ending intact for the 6th Movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNyzl1KxrwA
TPCi's Pokemon dub is on par with your typical bad 4Kids dub, though, it's actually a downgrade on all fronts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS-u1rVFoYU

>>30962564
TPCi's current dub has been going on for officially longer than 4Kids.

In my opinion, they really ought to cease New York based operations and restructure with a California based cast since that's where Veronica works now.

If we can somehow get some voodoo magic to bring back Zagnit as Oak, great. A lot of the "good" voices for TPCi were there but I think a lot of flaws were more in casting than direction.

>>30963181
I think we're talking about strictly the Pokemon dub, which actually was a perfect fit for them. Even went above and beyond and made a shitton of promo material like songs some of which were actually pretty damn good

>>30963207
Is the Yokai Watch dub good?

>>30963249
True, but that just means TPCi's shitty dub has been around longer, not that it's better. Who would have ever guessed 4Kids' dub was actually better?

I agree, frankly, though I can tell TPCi are too cheap for that..

>>30963252
Yup.

>>30963266
Yokai Watch dub started good, but it's been getting worse lately and is pretty average: does the same "Americanization" 4Kids/Saban/TPCi are guilty of nowadays and they scrapped "Gera Gera Po" for cheesy shit lately as the intro.

Still, beats TPCi Pokemon dub by far.

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>>30963237
>4Kids' Pokemon dub was actually their best dub

That's really not saying much.

It's fine if you liked the voices and scripts but it's still the furthest thing from a good dub. Even if you pull the "kid friendly card" I can't in good faith agree.

A good dub keeps the content, what your praising is a personal attachment or nostalgia at best.

>>30963449
4Kids kept 70% of the Japanese music in their first three seasons & all of the Japanese music in the Celebi to Lucario Movies and the voice cast was competent as well for Pokemon.

The scripts were also mostly faithful, especially in later seasons, ironically enough.

I'm not saying it's a "good" dub, but it's a decent one, and it's a lot better than the TPCi dub is (maybe it's because TPCi's dub is just utter shit, idk man).

4Kids' dub kept most of the content.

>>30962498
>Yfw the rapist said point blank TPCi doesn't give a shit how bad the dub gets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBnHSkTjXJQ

(See 2:50)

>>30962498
Dub only got 0.11 in ratings for SM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtpjGGidWE4

And dubfags still cry "oldschool!" whenever it gets bashed. kek.

>>30962498
TPCi dub is utter shit

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Thinking about writing some Ash x Lillie smut. What do you want to see in it?

>>30967223

OP here. Delete this post. I meant to post this as a new thread.

>>30964379
>Dub only got 0.11 in ratings for SM
Is this good or bad

TV ratings for shows in general have dropped dramatically. You can find episodes of pokemon with millions of view on youtube

>>30963181
Most of 4kids dubs were great in the voice department. It was the senseless editing they did.

>>30967288
>0.11 million views
>Pokemon Generations latest episode has ten times more views than the premiere of the English S/M dub
I do believe the people of America have spoken. Rest in pieces, Ashton Ketchum.
Someone get me the sauce for those ratings. I need to prove a point to someone.

>>30967500
4Kids' script writing for Pokemon was actually mostly accurate, too, even Dogasu admits they translated Team Rocket's dialogue better than TPCi has.

The 4Kids dub actually kept more of the OST intact than TPCi's dub has in the last 3 years during any point of their run, too, shockingly enough.

It was 4Kids' senseless censoring and editing that did them in in the end.

>>30967277
Very, very bad: the dub had 0.8-1.0 rating on CN even during XY, during BW it had 1.8-2.0, DP similar to BW, AG had 2.7-3.5, OS 6.0-3.5.

TPCi is killing the dub off slowly but surely.

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>>30967536
Here you go:

The Anime dub has been shit since Battle Frontier to me regardless, but it's nice to see it's finally getting what it deserves now.

Ever since the slut who chain smokes began voicing Ash, dub's never been tolerable.

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>>30967536
Sorry, better resolution, samefag as >>30967585
here.

People think just because of voice actor change for ash ratings dropped lol. In Japan they been using the same voice actor for 20 years and ratings have dropped dramatically too. This episode of xyz has 5.5 million views in 5 months on YouTube https://youtu.be/-bALygMlKLk

>>30967791
The dub's popularity sunk because of the dub changes, yes, regardless of YouTube viewership.

And the XYZ dub is absolute trash, bile fascination at best, nice try:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS-u1rVFoYU

>>30967848
Why does the dub change the music?

Ratings doesn't mean shit when every kid and their mom knows how to stream shit. Tv ratings overall has dropped.

>>30967882
Same reason they dumped the original English voice cast & script rewrites- to make more shekles via more royalties by exporting the dub music filled dub to other countries in the world outside of Japan & Korea.

>>30967882
TPCi is too cheap to pay for using the music. The music is made from companies outside TPC and the japanese version is the only one worth spending money on.

>>30967909
This is true. I don't watch TV all that much either. Most episodes for any series tend to be uploaded online simultaneously as the television broadcast now.

>>30967882
Sorry, meant script writers, script rewrites happen often in the current dub- samefag as >>30967924.

>>30967948
>>30967909
Dub's still widely hated these days and literally everyone prefers the dub pre-XY than it nowadays.

>>30962498
Tom Wayland

Not only was he a filthy rapist, but he was proud of his slackness and literally bragged to fans that he didn't care about the quality of the dub. Hus job was to direct, which he didn't do, simply throwing the actors in cold and letting them do whatever, using the first taje regardless of quality.

Fuck him.

>>30963664
>Pokemon is about DOGFIGHTING so putting the word Arse in a kids franchise is ok
This fucking voice I cant stand

>>30968018
He's not wrong, though, TPCi's dub is trash: autistic, yes, but not wrong.

At least Lisa Ortiz is gradually improving things.

Sophocles dub voice is better than his nip one, Lana's dub voice is good, Volcanion's dub voice is basically his Japanese voice in English. Then there's this scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DrLREb_deQ

All we need now is for Natochenny and Cathcart to lose their roles. Knotz is ok in my opinion, but she'd be better if she was less valley girl like she was when she started.

>>30968246
Lisa Ortiz hasn't improved anything, stop deluding yourself: we got shitty VA memes like "Dog pulse, go," "What'a' ya gonna stop," none of the other voice acting has improved a damn, Alolan Exeggutor's dub voice is cancer, etc.

Just because Sophocles' dub voice is good, doesn't make up for the other trash.

Knotz needs to be canned, too, her Jessie voice is too high pitched and she's a raging cunt anyway. Same with that ass Rogers, just recast the whole thing already.

>>30962619
Disney XD actually left the Volcanion movie uncut, even broadcasting the full credit roll.

I'm willing to give them a shot.

>>30968388
And the dub still replaced the Volcanion Movie's OST with Goldfarbage and the usual shitty VA was in it along with usual TR script rewrites thanks to Cathcart, so go for it, but the dub's beyond shit at this point.

I mean, I hated Wayland as much as the rest of you do, but you're only fooling yourselves if you think anything has changed since he left.

>>30968246
And fuck, Kukui's dub voice was like an Ohio stockbroker while Lillie sounds like a 30 year old woman in the Sun & Moon dub, so Lisa Ortiz has ultimately had no positive or negative effect on the dub post-Tom Wayland.

>>30968468
Maybe you're right, but I will always see Lisa as an improvement because she voiced my wife, but also because I hate Tom to the point where I literally derive satisfaction from the idea that Bubba pounds him up the ass twice a week.

>>30968417
I can't blame Disney for that, though. I only credit them for treating it marginally better than CN ever did, by not chopping the thing into ribbons. The last movie had an entire scene cut except for its ending, which no longer made any sense without the rest of the scene, for fuck's sake.

If I had my choice I would take the Origins/Generations dubbing into the main series, warts and all. Even the possibility of Vic McNuggets becoming main cast is tolerable if it just gets rid of Zoppi.

>>30968549
I get that, but just saying, dub's utter shit compared to its earlier seasons even now.

>>30968581
No arguments there.

>>30968577
Not blaming Disney, it's TPCi/DuArt's fault for what happened to the Pokemon Anime dub.

Generations dub is a massive drop from the Origins dub, although anything's better than Zoppi, Rogers, Natochenny, Knotz, etc. at this point, I'd be open to the idea.

>>30968602
Generations dub was probably made on a super tight schedule with minimal investment, so it being a little sloppy is to be expected.

Still though, when its merits and faults are weighed against each other, it comes out far ahead of the main series dub. Having the likes of Patrick Seitz, Richard Epcar, Jamieson Price, hell even Bryce Papenbrook would be an improvement alone, and then add on the fact a new production crew would likely mean better direction, script and music. It frustrates me just to think about it, because the only reason the Pokemon dub is the way it is boils down entirely to laziness and cheapness.

>>30968776
True.

I agree, though I won't lie, I actually prefer some of the old 4Kids VAs' performances over their Generations counterparts (notably, Lance, Archie, Maxie, and Eusine).

Shame NYAV Post can't get the rights to dub so we get back the old dub VAs, get a competent script writer, yet also get the LA talent you've mentioned along with the OST all in one package.

TPCi are just cheap fucks, sadly, yeah, only reason why 4Kids didn't keep the dub in the first place in fact.

>it's this same 4kids dub shill

Keep it in your containment thread. 4kids didn't have a decent dub.

If you don't retain 100% of the bgm, don't offer Japanese audio with subs, crop your movies, make pointless paint edits, etc, it can't be a decent dub. It can't even be average since almost all dubs (even the shit ones) do the aforementioned.

Stop crying about ratings for some shit show's shit dubs and onback to your containment thread.

>>30968970
Not shilling 4Kids dub, but it was better than the dub we have to deal with now from TPCi, that's the point.

>we will never get the good James voice back

>>30968970
My point being I'll take a subpar dub over an unwatchable one.

And some episodes of the 4Kids dub kept 100% of the BGM, especially during Orange Islands, and the Jirachi & Lucario films did as well, so parts of it were decent. Even Dogasu has admitted the 4Kids dub is better than the TPCi dub.

>>30969022
It hurts bad, especially because he was also the best Brock dub voice (no offense to Johnny Yong Bosch but the guy sounded literally the same as he does in all of his roles, and I don't need to talk about Bill Rogers' god-awful performance as the character, his in-love scenes are especially Cathcart-tier).

Did you get lynched on youtube and twitter OP?

>>30967536
I imagine that if the episodes were upped on YouTube they would get way more views. Who the fuck watches TV?

>>30969287
Nope.

>>30969319
Who watches the dub?

>>30969350
My point is more people would watch it if it was on youtube, retard.

>>30968897
Some Funimation/Sentai actors have been showing up since late DP, in fact. Vic is apparently a Pokemon fan and has a standing invite from Zoppi to come in and record when he's in NY. Todd Haberkorn plays Tierno, and as an example of someone who's been in both the main series and Generations, Kira Buckland played a one-off character in the Skrelp episode and Malva in Generations. Cristina Vee has also been in both plus Origins as well.

The problem here is twofold. Whether you like actors like Haberkorn, Vee and Vic or not, when they're in the Pokemon dub they're just as stuck with poor script and direction as the series regulars are. The other issue is that they're almost universally wasted on bit roles - Haberkorn as Tierno is probably the closest to a regular part as any of them have gotten - and that's an issue because the core cast of Ash and TR, the ones that are in every season, also happen to be the worst acted ones. So you have actors who usually appear in (at least marginally) better dubs being hamstrung by bad material and direction, who are also choked out for presence by the worst of the cast. They get completely wasted.

Honestly, the ideal is probably exactly what I said, rebuild from the ground up using a different studio and crew. If you have a better production then you can move on to salvaging the members of the old cast who can do better under a better team, i.e. none of the main core. A cast headlined by Veronica as Ash with a recast TR and a strong supporting lineup would do wonders.

>>30969010
There's no reason to complain about difference between marginally different shit.

>>30969043
4kids's was unwatchable. I guess the 10 years that have gone by really take a way all the bitching about the dub that occurred the years before 2006.

>>30969390
It's not marginally different, it's drastically different and a downgrade in every form.

And no, 4Kids' dub was tolerable, even Dogasu and WatcherMark have admitted it was at least better than TPCi's dub.

Not really, it's the fact TPCi's dub has gotten worse over time that makes some of 4Kids' crap forgivable at this point (that, and 4Kids is dead anyway).

>>30969365
Yup, and more people will bitch if it's on YouTube, too, XYZ dub is shit regardless of your opinion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS-u1rVFoYU

>>30969371
I agree on all fronts, although I wouldn't mind TR's old dub VAs back, Stuart was fucking perfect as James before Dunstan made him put on the goofy voice during AG and considering Lillis is with Taylor in LA, I can see her back as Jessie.

>>30969514
I was hedging my bets because I think Veronica is the most likely to accept the job back if this scenario played out, but you are right. Lillis, I hadn't heard a lot about her in recent years, but if she's still active I bet she'd take it. I fell like Eric Stuart has probably moved on though.

I've run through a number of ideas for recasts of James and Meowth but keep coming up dry. It might be that the only way to recast them is to look in an entirely different direction in terms of portrayal.

>>30970001
Stuart is going to reprise his Seto Kaiba role in the new Yu-Gi-Oh film coming out next month, so I wouldn't 100% rule out his return, but either way I'm okay with someone new for James/Meowth as long as Zoppi gets canned.

Lillis was in the Hunter x Hunter dub, so it's possible, though I agree Taylor is the most likely to reprise if approached.

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>it's another 4kids nostalgiafag shits on TPCI and jerks off 4Kids episode

Why haven't you gotten a job in the industry yet? You've been on this tirade for YEARS. Nobody cares anymore. Stop posting this garbage and grow up

>>30969426
>even Dogasu and WatcherMark
Who are these fags, and why should anyone care?

>>30971295
4Kids' dub was better than TPCi's, and that's a fact at this point: you care enough to respond, too.

>>30971315
Dogasu is the owner of Dogasu's Backpack, who compares the English and Japanese Language Versions of Pokemon.

WatcherMark is someone who favored the dub change yet now admits 4Kids' dub was superior to TPCi's.

>>30967536
>short 5 minute anime uploaded on youtube gets millions of views
>20 minute full anime, on a bumfuck channel nobody carries gets 100k views

t-t-told

>>30971372
>4Kids' dub was better than TPCi's, and that's a fact at this point: you care enough to respond, too.
So what are you gonna do about it? What's your endgame? Your grand master plan. Why do you keep making these threads? Are you gonna get a job on the dub and make it better? Are you gonna become an executive producer and force them to keep the Japanese music? Are you gonna become the new script writer and make literal translations of the dialogue that will be devoid of character and sound like broken English?

What's the point of preaching to the choir? We all know the show is ass as a whole and the dub was never good. It's time for you to stop posting and start doing. Get out there and BE the difference you want to happen.