Overthrowing Smogon

Here's a reply OP

>>30934357
>I will never be as utterly assravaged as this smogonfag
feels good

>>30934357
>Anyone got ideas?
we need more complex ban
like you can play pheromosa in OU but only without u-turn

>>30934498
That's a shit idea.
And by any ideas I meant. Where to properly meet.

>>30934357
Jesus Christ dude nobody else cares this much.

>>30934357
>box art designed to not-so-subtly mock Smogon
>includes the phrase "Discover perfect 100% effective strategies!" as though that's a bad thing

Thank you for clarifying that being anti-Smogon is the same as being intentionally bad.

>>30934642
>Set Up Stealth Rock
>Stall
>Win

It's only 100% effective because it's the only one.

Why are people so intensely buttblasted by Smogon

No one has ever said anyone NEEDS to play by Smogon rules except certain parts of Showdown

You have to actually go out of your way to even find Smogon at all

>>30934775
People don't like the idea of a community existing within their own community that is known enough by the larger community to dictate trains of thought

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Oh look, another thread for whiny faggots.

>>30934357
lol

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>>30934412
>>30934449
>>30934498
>>30934593
>>30934642
>>30934775
>>30934939
Have fun playing your broken meta. : )

>>30934357
guzmayallarestupid.png

>>30934775
Because pokemon is about friendship and giving up your shitmons for better mons is blasphemy.

>>30934969
>anti-smogonfags are this oblivious

>>30934357
>mocking "if it's not perfect, don't use it"
Are anti-smogonfags literally sjw in real life who defend fatties because "they're beautiful in their own way!".

Why would you use a non perfect mon in competitive simulator. "I WANT TO USE THIS 15 SP DEF IV CELEBI, HE WAS BORN THIS WAY"

>>30934977
I'm not anti, but that's the only reason i've ever heard other than "Those rules are stupid, why can't I use my bros."

Isn't OU "Overused"? Can't we like spam the shit out of Spinda until he becomes OU tier?

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>>30934967
Here you go, anon.

>>30934979
>>30934969
I don't hate the idea of Smogon. I just hate how they run things. I know all Pokemon can't be fucking viable. I understand that.

Quit meming. I legit want to form a new group. Start a website that will trump Smogon. I want to purify competitive.

I want to make competitive great again.

>>30934998
Holy shit. Can't we raid Smogon and use meme mons. Make fucking Luvdisc OU.

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>>30935003
Holy fuck, you're actually retarded, aren't you?

>>30935012
Ugh. You mareeple are satisfied with what you have now. You enjoy eating shit don't you?

*sigh* It's no use talking to a herd of mindless humans.

>>30934998
>>30935010
Theoretically you could but you're need to do something like 125,000 battles or more to get it there.

>>30935034
If you join my cause, then it would only take 62500 battles

>>30935034
With enough people. It's feasible.

Holy shit. Let's do this, /vp/.

New thread?

Anyone?

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>>30935019
This is bait. There's no fucking way it isn't.

>>30935038
Luvdisc is PU so you'd have to accomplish that several times over as well, and tier shifts are once every 3 months so it'd take a year or so.

>>30935043
All you guys see are memes. I'm not baiting. God, are you people so far into your fantasy world that you can't see that I'm being real?

>Bait! Bait! Must be bait!!! Waaaa!

You're the one who's baiting.

I'm fucking being real. I want to start a new Pokemon group. Smogonfags keep on telling me "Why don't you make your own?!?! HURR DUR".

And when I fucking try to, I just get fucking memed and laughed at.

Fuck you.

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>>30935062
You're real about being autistic as fuck, that's for sure.

>>30934357
>Smogon only supports the current 6th generation games X and Y
Showdown literally has gen 5,4 etc formats...

>>30935082
I stole this off of google images. It was the most relevant pic i could find for this thread.

>>30935087
But why?
Smogon literally supports using your favourites, the tiers are made so weaker Pokemon can excel at positions they wouldn't able to in a higher up tier. Broken shits stay with broken shits when weaker Pokemon can actually be useful.

We've had these threads on and off for years. Some of you might remember Dunsparce but before him were the Karenites. Oh god those people didn't have even an ounce of self awareness.

>>30934357
They should've unbanned everything at the start of gen 7.

>>30934357
Good luck cucklord. I'd like to see you start a new community from scratch while recruiting off /vp/.

>>30935123
Greninja and Mawile get shit on in Ubers.
They're not Ubers material.
Greninja's a fucking spikes setter in Ubers.

Sleep Clause is a shit.

Baton Pass being useless.

>>30935150
I currently have 0 members because /vp/ is filled with underage memers.

I'll fucking pay for the website costs. I just need support.

To be honest smogon is the best competitive enviroment for 6v6 battles. Come on Why do you guys hate it that much? They actually leave bans to voting, and desu pretty much everything is allowed but stupidly broken mons, evasion, and OHKO moves.
They dont ban things because "They dont like them". If you want to play without bans, go to anything goes, but overused is the most healthy enviroment. Not right now, but the meta just appeared, give bans time

>>30935040
no.

do it yourself.

>>30935003
some pokemon are viable in NU or PU :^)

>>30935160
It's the best for 6 v 6 because the only alternative is GF's bullshit.

Leaving bans to voting is stupid. As I've stated in previous threads. You're letting a bunch of stall users decide what's banned. Of course they're gonna ban offensive mons like Greninja and Landorus. They ban offensive strategies like Baton Pass too.

And OHKO moves aren't broken. They'll be low ladder because it's a fucking meme to use them.

Evasion is a meme too. You're absolutely stupid if you let yourself get set up on.

Get a legit argument or gtfo.

>>30935175
Don't fucking call me a Karenfag, Smogonfag.

>>30935182
Are you the same baby who keep reposting that helioptile image?

>>30935123
my problem with smogon is not their metagame, i don't care that they limit their own gameplay.

it's how they push their shit on everything, including vgc, which is one smogon prepackaged team after another. when the 100th person dc's during battle cause you used something banned by smogon, you get kinda sick and tired of their dumb ass shit, sore losers is what they are

>>30935188
so use whatever you want in AG :^)

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>>30935194
No. I'm the wonderful SmugBonnie. : )

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>>30935207
>Meme

>>30934357

>>Positives
>>Having the balls to say "Lets do it better

>>Negatives
>>Offers no concrete plan to base this monumental undertaking on
>>Seems to have no understanding of why Smogon is the way it is
>>Is incapable of realizing that this makes them look like a whiny Karenfag rather than someone who genuinely wants a viable alternative to the current meta

>>30935215
go so on /vp/ and complain about things instaed of playing AG or not playing competitive at all :^)

>>30935209
>tripfag
why am I not surprised?

>>30935227
>implying smogon is competitive.
copy paste teams
: )

>>30935218
That's why I need /vp/'s help.
I can't do this shit on my own.
I need feedback on my ideas.
It is the way it is because it was the only solution to GFs stupidity.
And I really do want to make a viable meta. Smogon is good and all, but it can be a whole lot better.

>>30934729
but mega gengar, mega khan and mega lucario don't do either of the first two things you mentioned

>>30935245
>copy paste teams
do you need to copy paste your team?
complain about the players, not smogon
>I can't do this shit on my own.
We know.

>>30935248
Those are in Ubers for being too offensive. They counters stall teams!

>>30935152
I mean if you are so butthurt about smogon you might as well just not play it.
Ubers is not supposed to be an actual tier but more of a banlist.
Sleep clause is good.
Baton Pass clause was made because some guy came up with baton pass team that you weren't able to disrupt.
>>30935196
What are you talking about? Battle spot?

>>30935182
Uh i didnt say OHKO or evasion was broken, read my post again.
Not even smogon said thatm its bannez because its based on sheer luck.
And if youre so sure you can create a healthier metagame, im listening. List your rules

>>30935262
There's no alternative besides GFs 6 v 6 which is basically AG?

Explain AG. : )

Sleep Clause isn't good. Sleep's been nerfed to fuck. If you can't handle Spore, then you need to git gud.

Well then. What was the team? Who doesn't run taunt? or Encore? Why are players so shit?

>>30935003
So, what? Let everyone use all pokemon, and get run over by Xerneas and moody Smeargles?

Honestly, I like Smogon for the existence of Little Cup, UnderUsed, and RarelyUsed tiers. Lets me pit my special snowflakes and cutemons against other snowflakes on a fair playing field.

I also like it as a means of pruning down my decision tree of figuring out complementary movesets of nearly 1000 pokemon by now; many years of coming up with synergies in parallel do a lot to get new themes off the ground.

And honestly... I do get your complaint about seemingly-arbitrary bans on OHKOs and Double Team and whatnot, but do you REALLY want to have a competitive site in where the Pokebank No Guard+Fissure Machamp is everywhere?

And have you PLAYED against Moody Leftovers Baton Pass/Protect/Substitute Pokemon? Like, actually? Fuck that noise. That's a long stally uninteractive battle that I don't want to touch with a 10ft pole. A ban to keep playing pokemon a more attractive prospect than just banging my head against the wall is nice, thanks. Swagger is also stupid because if I just wanted to gamble on cockfighting, why bother with video games?

Bu let's say you do this. What's your goal? Let's say it's taking away entry hazards. Now, the only way my pokes can have a lasting impact on the battle is weather/terrain and getting damage on pokes, or via Baton Pass/Wish/Heal Bell. Still a decent variety of things, you've made a lot more Flying/Fire types viable, and Multiscale/Focus Sash a lot more powerful, and REALLY encourages switch-ins. Could make a new format from this, open up some new strategies, but is this really different enough to warrant a new website instead of just a new format, like Monotype or Little Cup?

I just have no idea what you're trying to do. Are you butthurt over people telling you your strategies are bad become LORD KOFFING tells them this? Do you just miss Mega Luke and Blazekin? You need a clear problem for a clear solution.

>>30935263
>Sheer Luck
Okkkkk.
Explain confusion.
Explain attraction.
Explain any status move with accuracy < 100

The whole game is BASED on sheer luck.

>>30935276
AG was created because Mega Fug is just retarded strong, Ubers is a banlist. AG is just a joke to show how stupid broken Mega Rayquaza is.
Sleep isn't healthy for metagame at all, there was a thing even at VGC when one of the players just won because he had ammonguss that was putting everyone on opp team to sleep and slowly winning, that's what led to Sleep nerf in the first place.
It had a magic guard mon. Literally google it.

>>30935297
Meant Magic Bounce not Guard

man I sure am enjoying battle spot right now with every team running shit sword and garbagechomp

yeah they're easy to counter but I'd like to try and win with new mons and not just a-ninetails and whatever actually counters aegislash

>>30935276
Right, let's say you get rid of the sleep clause. So, now, you need one dedicated pokemon on your team to absorb sleep or you're just going to get fucked over by all the free turns your opponents get. Getting to move, what, 1 time in three unless you sacrificed a move slot just for Sleep Talk? Seems REAL fun. Gonna get a LOT of unique strategies by opening up Spore Spam. It can certainly get handled, but dedicated slots for that just adds more arbitrary constraints on team-building, which... is the opposite of what you're trying to do with your meta, I think.

>>30935280
Letting anyone use any Pokemon isn't where I'm getting at.

And yes, I'm glad that Smogon is able to let almost every Pokemon shine bright.

Machamp No Guard Fissure isn't confirmed to
be a thing and I doubt it will.

>Red Card
>Whirlwind
>Roar
>Taunt
>Encore
>Unaware
Lots of counters. People just need to stop whining.

My goal is to simply improve Smogon. It's too far gone and I alone can't fix it. It's fucked to the very core. It'd be better to just build a new place.

>Stealth Rock Gone
>Sleep Clause Gone
>Baton Pass not shit
And yes. It'd need a new website. Association with the toxic Smogon community would be a no. I want purity.

I wonder what the mascot would be? Something that purifies toxins. Hmm. I wonder...

>>30935284
Yeah, but missing a hydro pump isnt the same as "oops hit fissure i kill your mon no matter what, sorry". Obviously an attack which OHKO with a high chance to hit involves more luck than confuse ray, which you can get rid off switching and even if you dont and luck fails you you just lose a turno.
Honestly Why do you even want to discuss this. No one gives a fuck about evasion and OHKO moves being banned ir not

>>30935321
The only Spore Pokemon are slow as fuck and weak to the common fire type. With stealth rock gone, birds will be free to roam, adding another obstacle for spore users. And there's also the Safety Goggles, which does more than just protect from Spore. There's Magic Bounce, Grass types. Insomnia, Sap Sipper. Lum Berry. Sleep Talkers. Comatose. Heal Bell. Taunt.

>>30935341
If no one cares. Then why ban? They'll be nothing but meme moves and be used only by those in low ladder.

>>30935328
Just by listing your sugestion you showed you have no idea about competitive play. Thanks

>>30935362
Tell me how it's bad? You're stating things without backing up anything?

>Smogon doesn't do it so it's automatically dumb.

Give a legit argument and I may change my mind.

>>30935361
Did you just completely ignore the explanation i wrote? They are luck based, and that alone is enough reason For smogon. No one cares so no one wa ta to unban it.
Also evasion would be annoying and usable on some tanky mons, At least one would end up like a viable user. Maybe not ou, but Why ruin lower tiers?

>>30935182
You do understand though, that Greninja shits all over Offense and Balance too?

>>30935390
>Luck Based
Got it. Let's ban all moves with secondary effects while we're at it. Ice Beam has a 10% chance of freeze. it's luck based. Let's ban it!

>>30935369
Justify yourself first. Why ban SR? Do you want stall to run rampant?
Also sleep is broken, and yu didnt even explain how would you fix BP

>>30935412
BP needs no fixing.

Stall won't run rampant with undeserved Ubers mons in OU again.

>>30935406
I already told you, god dammit, you just ignored it >>30935341

>>30935412
Explain how sleep is broken? Accuracy is shit. Spore users have tons of counters.

>>30935421
>BP needs no fixing
W H E W

>>30935351
>Safety Goggles
Giving up an item slot to counter 1 move
>Magic Bounce
Good but limits your team building
>Grass types,Insomnia, Sap Sipper.
Again limits your team building.
>Lum Berry
One time only
>Sleep Talk
Limits team building again and wasting a move slot to counter 1 move.
>Comatose
Only 1 pokemon has it
>Heal Bell. Taunt.
Aside Magic Bounce only legit things on your list.
And it still means you MUST run those things not to get your entire team put to sleep.

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>falseflagging this hard

This is pretty pathetic OP.

>>30935424
And it works what? Almost never? You're never going to win. It's an unnecessary ban. No one's going to run it.

>OP's """"""meta"""""""
anything goes + no SR

fucking genius

>>30935462
Oh. So having to run defog and rapid spin is healthy. Only 2 counters. : )

It's basically a death sentence for x4 weakness mons. Limits team building even more,

>>30935477
I'm talking about Stealth Rock here. Whoops.

>>30935328
Gonna need to work on your marketing.

"It's like Smogon, but with Sleep Spam and Pass Hax... but with really good birds!"

Talonflame and Charizard go from checked by entry hazards to ignoring the only hazards left, Spikes, entirely.

...Also, Pokebank transfer is confirmed, Ability capsule is a thing, how is No Guard Fissure not confirmed?

And how the hell does a Roar/Red Card somehow make the Machamp not a thing? It just comes in again later with no damage on it. Also, Unaware does nothing to No Guard at all, IIRC, given that No Guard just eliminates accuracy checks entirely rather than add stages.

>>30935502
>he hell does a Roar/Red Card somehow make the Machamp not a thing?
hes talking about the moody thing there, i think

>>30935477
>>30935487
You see defog counters every single hazard not just Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock also doesn't prevent you from moving for almost 3 turns.
Many mons to rocks mons were viable in XY OU too.
As said before you don't have to play by Smogon rules if you don't like them that much.

>>30935502
The red card stuff was about BP teams and Evasion mons. Machamp will get its HA, which won't revert to regular ability with the capsule.

Only reason Greninja got banned was it because it OHKO with any of its 4 attacks and there was no way to know which attacks are coming to one shot you because it hadoesn't such a huge movepool.

Having to sacrifice a mon to figure out what it was running was not healthy. But it can come back now we have healthy meta taups

>>30935537
In my meta, Move Tutors not from the 1st set of games will be banned.

>>30935535
It might as well be a 1HKO. Literally almost any move will kill a mon at 50%

>>30935424
Riddle me this...

Why isn't Metronome banned? It can be another sleep move! Sleep clause!! It can 1HKO Pokemon too! Swagger! Baton Pass!

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>>30935549
>M-my Blaziken doesn't have speedboost! W-why can't I use it?
>My Mewtwo only uses Psywave and Haze, why can't I use it to fuck someones Weedle up?
>Le ebil Smogon!
Literally your idea.

>>30935678
Because Smogonfags are retarded.

>>30935678
You press something like Swagger or an OHKO move with full intention of lucking your opponent.

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>>30935771
You can't make this shit up.

>>30935678
there's no conceivable way at the moment to have a viable metronome user. same thing with acupressure being able to pull +2 evasion fairly often

its hypocritical but no one will address it until it becomes a problem

Ah fuck OP, its still early in the day, I'm still waking up...Can you try this again later today?

>>30935817
There's no viable 1HKO User!

BTFO NO 1HKO USERS IN SMOGON OU

kekkity kek kek kek

>>30936188
No. We're doing this right fucking now. If you've read through this thread, you'd see that I'm currently winning. That's why there aren't any more replies. : )

They were fighting a losing battle.

>>30936216
Cool. Too bad you aren't actually going to make anything and this thread only exists to farm (You)s.

>>30936257
That's only because no one's offered to join. People derailed the topic.

>>30935351
>all spore users are slow
What is Smeargle?

>>30936294
Still slow.

Alright, here's an idea I've been thinking of recently.

>Create a few different tiers
>Each tier is a different Base Stat Total Limit for Teams
>Use Smogon Sleep clause, VGC No Duplicates rule, maybe a few others
Think of it like the point buy system for D&D.

Example:
>2000 Tier
The sum of your team's base stat total must not exceed 2000. Any Pokemon holding a Mega Stone will have the BST of its Mega Evolution counted towards the cap.

>Team 1
Garchomp (-600) [1400]
Gengar (-500) [900]
M-Lopunny (-580) [320]
Smeargle (-250) [70]

>Team 2
Scolipede (-485) [1515]
M-Gallade (-618) [897]
Ferrothorn (-489) [408]
Wobbuffet (-405) [3]

It needs some developing, but there's your idea.

>>30936410
I thought about that too. But there are mons that have a shit BST, that are pretty good.

>>30936410
I swear there was a simulator with this exact idea and it fucking died early on. The damn thing couldn't even beat out Pokemon Online in play rates or popularity.

>>30936438
According to some users, it wasn't based on BST, but points?

Idk.
I proposed the points idea, but was shot down because of your example.

I have no idea how it was implemented. No details given.

>>30936410
Ditto
Smeargle
Diggersby
Haunter
Marowak
Chansey

>>30936419
>>30936487
Yeah, things like Smeargle, Ditto, and the like kinda fuck it up. Like I said, it needs play-testing and developing. Maybe adding items into the point-buy system?

Haunter's inclusion actually confuses me. The others are all pretty self-evidently strong, but Haunter?

>>30936438
It would probably be better to test the format out in-game until the fine details are hashed out, and then make a simulator once it's actually gotten to a reasonable point.

>>30934357
Go home Verlisify.

>>30936515
Yeah. You can probably put non Z-Moves+Mega Stones in tiers.

Eviolite, lefties would be top tier
then would be the choice items + assault vest
then sash... idk. Just an idea to base the item point system on that.

>>30935678
>why isn't this move that has a less than 1/650 chance to use a specific move banned?

really makes u think

>>30936620
Why is the move that has 30% CHANCE to use a specific move banned?

Really makes you think...

>>30936592
Yeah, something like that.

Well, there you go OP. You have the basic idea; grab some people, start playtesting, hammer out the details, and figure out how to make it work.

>>30936633
Because you could buff to chance to around 40%+ to happen and if it does, it's an instant OHKO

Really makes you think...

>>30936652
How many 1 HKO users are actually viable?

Really makes you think...

>>30936633
Are you mentally handicapped?

If metronome became a ohko move it still has to pass the accuracy check, so the probability of that happenning is less than (1/650)(.30) which is approximately 0.046%

>>30936633
30% is a lot u fr*cking r*tard

>>30936681
None, because OHKO moves are thankfully banned.

>>30936685
It's based on SHEER LUCK!

Needs to be banned according to a user above me.

>>30936681
If you played BSS or some of the battlespot tournaments you'd know that OHKO moves are incredibly viable filler moves. In Kanto Classic I remember seeing a shitload of sheer cold Lapras - freeze dry, hydro pump, and ice shard were all it needed most of the time, and a 30% chance to delete a counter as it switches in is amazing. I'd expect to see more OHKO moves in vgc this year as well - mons like gastrodon can easily stick around for a while and fire out fissures, and it turns out those 30%s add up to be very effective at wallbreaking.

>>30936734
Thanks for confirming you're clinically retarded.

But like... why don't you just not play by Smogon rules?

Have fun with Bright Powder Double Team Blissey fights then.

>>30936750
yes. what gets me about ohko moves is that there's no real way of knowing certain pokemon have them until it happens. things like excadrill, suicune, mamoswine could easily carry them as a surprise attack. this gets worse if you're expecting it to have an ohko attack and they don't at all

>>30936750
>>30936817
Just use a Pokemon with sturdy or focus sash you retard.

>>30936796
If you read the fucking thread. You'd know that I also wouldn't play by GFs shit rules. : ) : )

kekkity kek kek

mememememeem

dae meme

>>30936734
The thing you're forgetting is that smogon's rules are decided by the players. Yeah, metronome is luck-based, but it being allowed doesn't affect the meta enough for anyone to care. Fundamentally it doesn't matter what the reason is behind a particular clause - smogon is a group of players who agree to play by a certain set of rules simply because that's how they want to play.

>>30936837
Letting kids decide how things are done. Yeah. No.

>>30934998
You'd need to have success in using it.

I don't really get why you faggots get so butthurt over certain pokemon not being in certain tiers. I just don't get it. My favorite pokemon is Lapras. I love it to death. But I know I struggle to use it in OUs. I use it anyway, but it makes sense why it's PU.

>>30936842
Then you don't have to play by their rules. Again, it's a group of players who collectively agree to play a certain way. Don't like the group, don't try to be part of it

>>30934357
Smogon is more popular than the official system

Eat shit faggot, we tell you how to play and you WILL bend the kneww

>>30936681
Kyogre learns Sheer Cold.
Groudon, Dugtrio, Excadrill, Snorlax, and Landorus learn Fissure.
Pinsir, Gliscor, Bisharp, and Kartana learn Guillotine.

Using Ninjask, you could Baton Pass +6 Accuracy and +6 Speed onto ANY of these Pokemon to create one of the most broken sweepers ever. It can also hold a wide lens since accuracy and speed are now the only stats that are remotely relevant. Even outside of these Pokemon, with that many stat boosts, pretty much anything becomes broken.

>>30936864
But the thing is. THERE'S NO OTHER RULES TO PLAY BY. IT'S EITHER SMOGON OR GF'S SHITTIER RULES

IT'S I EITHER PLAY SMOGON RULES OR PEOPLE GET BUTTHURT.

OH YOU'RE NOT PLAYING SMOGON RULES??? DC!!! CHEATING!!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Smogon as a CONCEPT is GOOD. EXECUTION IS SHIT>

Now, I need people to join my cause. Quit replying with meme responses. I've heard that shit like a 1000 times.

>>30936885
If you could baton pass speed, anyway.

>>30936410
I need to get with this anon. He's actually fucking helping unlike you fucking mareeple.

>>30936894
If you want to play on showdown then you use smogon's rules. Or you can play any of the battlespot formats. Or you can make up your own rules and play them with your friends, except of course that would require you to not be a pathetic autist.

>>30936885
OHKO attacks do not check accuracy

just throwing this out here, apparently ice-types are immune to sheer cold since sm

>>30936885
Except that accuracy / evasion stages don't affect OHKO moves.

>>30936917
Eww. Using Smogon's sim.
No thanks. I'm not going to bow down to Smogon.

Smogon's rules are shit.
Battlespot is shit.
My own rules are more sophisticated than showdown would allow them to be.

dae insults???? memememememe.
i spout memeemees. im autistic. i liek smogon cause im chuildl.

>>30936908
If they want to get rid of Smogon rules, that's not an issue. Another +1 for Smogon I guess.

>>30936916
Glad you like the system, feel free to work with it.

>>30936928
>>30936920
Oh shit, I'm retarded. Thanks anons.

>>30936894
You do realize that if Smogon didn't have rules in place you still wouldn't be able to use your precious shitmon and battles would be far far worse?


Remember Battle Tree Bullshit? Put that in EVERY battle.

>>30936961
AFGHGHGHG

Again! WITH THIS STUPID ANSWER.

Syria > NK, but Syria is still shit.

>>30936410
What about pokemon with low BST but amazing usage like Clefki or Pelipper?

BST is NOT all that matters. Look at fucking Solgaleo.

>>30936982
See

>>30936515

>>30936827
The pool of sturdy pokemon is so limited that hardly works at all. Where's your sturdy pokemon that safely switches in on Lapras or Suicune?

>focus sash is a counter
Same as the retards who think sash whatever] counters [broken sweeper]. Your sasher doesn't switch in and beat the threat, it can at best revenge kill it. Even doing that requires you to keep all entry hazards off your side, and it means your sasher can't afford to enter the field at any point until the one threat it's meant to handle comes in. Now, this is actually feasiblenin 3v3 singles which is why you'll see plenty of random sashes in battlespot singles. It doesn't work well at all in 6v6 singles>>30936827

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>>30936948
>my own rules are more sophisticated than showdown would allow

If anyone wants to join the Anti-Smogon cause then email me.

>>30937047
[email protected]

>>30937042
dae memeememememememe

It's not hard to think up a better tier system, but it'd be hard to get any traction with it.

By better tier system, I mean-- Assign Pokemon points based on usage, and your team cannot exceed a certain amount of points in order to be in a certain tier.

So people will be forced to play at least 1 lower tier mon on their team if they play shit like Phero, Celesteela, Jobberninja, etc.

>>30937068
But like... then the best of the best low tier mons would get lots of usage.

Then have to go up.

Poor Qwilfish won't know what to do.

>>30937094

Exactly-- The meta-game would change as the usage changes, as it should be instead of "This mon is NU so it stays NU because nobody in OU wants to use it."

And when an NU mon rises, an OU mon might drop because it gets checked too much.

It's a nice cycle to filter out a stale meta.

>>30935502
>No Guard Fissure Machamp

No Guard doesn't work on OHKO moves just like Skill Swap doesn't work on Wonder Guard. It didn't in Gen IV, it won't in Gen VII.

Jeez, for a bunch of guys that claim to know the game, smogonfags really just itch to ban stuff.

>>30937068
There was a sim that did literally this, and it died off almost instantly. Turns out people would rather use play full OU vs OU, full UU vs UU, etc rather than half OU half UU vs 1 Uber and 5 NU or shit like that.

>>30937113
So, the exact same thing we have now, just more convoluted? People here don't have a problem with the tiering system, it's the bans and clauses they dislike.

>>30937129
Well maybe they were doing something wrong. I bet i could make it work with a team.

>>30937129

Fighting 1 Uber and a bunch of meh-mons would be more interesting than playing against the same teams you see from UU and above.

>>30937123
No Guard works with OHKO moves, it's the only accuracy-modifying anything that does so. Stat stages, gravity, wide lens, etc don't.

>>30937145

"what we have now--"

No. This system disallows teams that are only in one tier.

This increases usage for RU mons and below.

The Smogon system is designed to only hail to like 5% of the Pokemon that exist-- Which is pretty idiotic.

>>30934969
t. assmad Karenfag
Just play in their fucking tiers or use your favourites shitters in higher tiers anyways.

>>30934357
Nice falseflag smogonfag

>>30937172
You sound like you have no idea why Smogon tiers mons at all

>>30937189
I'm fucking serious

[email protected]

Email me. And fuck you, Pornhub dude. This is why I used a throwaway email. : )

>>30937172
You don't actually know how Smogon tiers work do you?

Your own "system" doesn't seem terribly well thought out itself. Again, if a pokemon is used more, it gets bumped up, but certain pokemon will only get used because people are forced to use them to compete. It honestly sounds even more limiting.

>>30937172
No? Are you one of those morons who believes OU is the only tier that matters on Showdown? There are literally entire meta-games dedicated to each tier. Hell, a new one was made last gen, PU, where even the shittiest of shit mons can thrive.

You're actively hurting the chances of NU and RU mons succeeding by forcing them against Uber and OU mons instead of mons with similar strength levels.

>>30934357
>being this autistic
For what purpose?
And inb4smogonfag. Nah. Karenfag with friends VGC for competitive.

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>>30937215
>Decide to check PU's analysis of Ledian
>Still one of the worst pokemon in existence
Someone at gamefreak really really hates that Pokemon.

Why do people think Smogon is totalitarian or some shit?

>>30937172
>designed to hail only 5% of mons

That's what you get if you don't tier at all. No reason (from a competitive view) to use luvdisc when you could use primal Kyogre. Tiers attempt to remedy this by saying you *can't* use primal Kyogre below ubers. So people use the next best water types in OU, causing them to be banned in uu. Then uu players use the waters another step down, and so on until even the shittiest mons are viable in the bottom tier because everything they're facing is equally shitty. This isn't quite true at the moment-I think PU needs to be split because it's kinda bloated-but that's the idea

>>30937255
Ledian has it rough, real rough.

>>30937259
It is to a degree, a tight knit circle decides what is and isn't to be suspected. Usually it stems from discussion on the forums or from tourneys routinely getting ass ravaged by something. The ladder doesn't honestly mean much in these decisions. Each tier has its own leaders, some (UU) are much more guilty of this than others (NU)

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SET HER FREE
SET HER FREE

>>30937342
Pretty much this, plus the fact that tier councils ban a lot of things without suspects early in the meta. LC banning porygon instead of just z-conversion really pissed off a lot of players, myself included

>>30937371
>She
is unbanned right now. Just not available in the game.

>>30937068
>Look up PokéBattle.
>Then kys.
Do it fag.

>>30936894
> I've heard that shit like a 1000 times
Maybe you should listen

>>30937531
Is it really coming back? ,,

>>30934357
You talking about singles?
Because while I'm not fond of smogon I don't think doing a better job at balancing Singles will be easy at all.

>>30938561
It's not how strong it is but how much it's used.
Usage based take away most of the load of deciding where to place each Pokemon but also mean stuff like this happens.

>>30935725
>what items u got bitch
>life orb

Hey its this thread again. Do we just not have mods, because this shit is getting out of hand. Same go nowhere discussion, same "I hate this" "well I don't" back and forth, same "I HAVE THIS RADICAL IDEA" that didn't work when it was last tried, same "I could balance better" bullshit that we can't do anything about. If you hate smogon just don't use it, it literally can only be enforced on the smogon part of showdown. If you feel showdown sucks balls make another or find someone else who will. We here at /vp/ literally cannot do shit to help you.

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>>30935062

>>30935725
>GiantDad at the end
10/10

>>30934775
because when they go to play it, they only play one or two matches, then lose and quit.

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>>30935502

Being a Machamp fag is nice.

>>30935351
The biggest problem i got with that argument is the fact that you want to ban stealth rocks, making fire and flying pokemon more viable and then saying you can just use a grass type to counter spore, while fire and flying types are free to roam and destroy any grass type

>>30935465
if no one's going to run it, then why complain about the ban? :^)

>>30935729
Ok, go and calculate the odds of actually getting a sleep or OH KO move, and after that apply the chance of hitting with said sleep/OH KO move. feel retarded yet?

>>30936273
>this thread was created to create a new meta
>we are winning cause we ignore any logic
>no one is joining to create a new meta even though that was the plan, but it still counts as a win, right?

>>30936948
Then go ahead and present your rules.

>>30936419
Don't forget things with great BST but crippling abilities like Slaking, Regigigas, and Archeops

>>30934357
Nice bait Verlis.

You fuck off now.

>>30935725
this made me laugh too much

>>30934357
This board has no mods, it's been confirmed.

Not even a board as retarded as /v/ would let the exact same shitposting thread go up every single day without anything at all done about it.

>>30936515
>>30936410
>basically smogon + random bans on lower tiers
how fucking amazing, so fucking original!
who's to decide how many points do specific items get? you?

>>30937172
thanks for confirming you don't know shit about how smogon works

>>30938561
yeah and it has no physical moves to fucking use in a tier that is packed of steel types and fairy types that eat his Outrages/Dragon Claws like they're nothing, not to mention that it's slow for a sweeper basically making it a wallbreaker and nothing else