>guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage

>2HKO
why stop there?

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>guaranteed 1HKO after Stealth Rock damage

Stealth rocks ruined the game for me

>>30926233
Learn 2 defog/rapidspin/magicbounce/taunt

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>>30926184
+1 252+ Atk Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Salamence: 316-374 (80.4 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

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>guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage and 2 layers of spikes

>>30926453
252+ SpA Charmander Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Articuno: 164-194 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

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0- Atk Mudbray Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 304-364 (89.4 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

>>30926233
It's kinda necessary to keep certain things in check, like constant switching with no punishment

>>30926737
I think this could have been averted with the right nerfs to Stealth Rock (like make it typeless/only affect flying types for instance), but now it's too much of a necessary evil.

I think the big problems with it come with Smogon's utter refusal to ever think of it is a problem that warps the metagame around it, all the while turning their attention on how they can ban another move out of existence.

>>30926737
>Game built around the ability to predict opposing actions and switch to make those actions less punishing, which requires tactical ability and understanding of the opponent's moveset, likely actions, and understanding of type advantages so you can act in the most defensive way to minimize your losses while maximizing your benefits.
>Or just fucking screw that and throw a bunch of shit all over your opponent's floor and tell them that if they switch they'll be hard punished, which requires absolutely no tactical depth or thought in any way since hazards can be slapped onto a fuckton of durable pokemon.
>The only way to get rid of this are two moves that only a short list of pokemon get, requiring you to gimp yourself to get rid of something, an additional move that only works if you outspeed the user, or a single ability that only specific pokemon get and even fewer can be effective with.

Yeah great fucking mechanic. I don't mind Stealth Rocks, but there needs to be more counterplay for them.

>>30926233
Why when you got two great spinblocker+hazard removers this gen?

>>30926959
The funny part is that had the suspect process in Gen 4 been not completely retarded, SR probably would have been looked at very critically early on. Instead it became so enmeshed with the meta that everyone argued about it and nothing got done. For the record, Gen 4 is where SR is arguably completely broken with absolutely no counterplay.

Nowadays, if you ever try to voice the opinion that you think SR should be looked at, you'll get shouted down by "top players" and ridiculed by the staff. They're so hypocritical over this one move, it's ridiculous.

The game did need something like Stealth Rock, because endless switching battles are fucking retarded, but Game Freak screwed it up so badly that the meta is still suffering for it.

>>30926737
getting hit/hit by a status after switching is not punishment? shieeeet

>>30927066
>because endless switching battles are fucking retarded
The player should do something to stop it, not just throw in a hazard and say "now you stay and die or you switch and die". That's what really retarded.

I include Sticky Web on this because of how crippling it is.

>>30926277
>bending over backwards to stop a single move
It's easier to just use them yourself and try to kill before you get killed. That's singles right now.

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Isn't it weird that nobody complained about stealth rock during the era of Bravest Bird?

Now that he's shit, everybody bitches about it again.

I wonder who is behind those bitch posts....

>>30927251
ADV and GSC metagames were retarded with stall and SkarmBliss. Lot of hyperbole with "Stay and die switch and die"

>>30926916
You do know they had a meta last gen that tested no stealth rock correct?

Talonflame Volcarona and Charizards raped the meta iirc

>>30926233
Just play 3v3 or doubles

>>30927251
>The player should do something to stop it
like...maybe a move that means the opponent cant mindlessly switch.....hmmmmmmmmm

>>30927305
you're on to something

>>30927417
What something that you can switch into before they use it?

And that has a chance to be completely immune to said move?

assuming spirit shackle

>>30927444
If Anti-switch moves only lasted one turn and got priority, that'd be pretty rad.

At the same time, that'd be a straight upgrade to Pursuit.

>>30927352
You're the retarded one if you think that any kind of defensive gameplay is evil. God forbid if you can't kill everything just by spamming your LO 120 BP stabs. God forbid if you have to weaken a wall before boosting and going for a sweep. God forbid if you actually have to work to get kills.

Really retarded are the amount of unboosted, LO kills that goes on with the game nowadays. You don't even need to hit things super effectively anymore, even resisted moves will be 2HKO thanks to LO and entry hazards. Why even think? Just click Close Combat.

The mere idea of saccing a healthy pokemon because you can't switch into (insert threat here) is pants on head retarded. Even RBY was better than this, with all the bullshit that went on that game, at least it rewarded you for keeping a healthy team that can cover for each other, instead of "lol just sac and revenge kill XD"

>>30927066

There's already Spikes, which is better since it takes effort to set up for decent damage, and doesn't completely fuck over certain types.

>>30926559
What is even the meaning of this? When would Articuno ever fight Charmander? Why would Charmander not use Fire Blast? Who the hell would put only 4 SpD into Articuno and nothing into HP? What kind of scenario is this?

>>30927305
+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 346-408 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

>>30927621
It's just a joke, don't take it so seriously.

>>30927645
HAHA whoa bro like relax why you gotta be so serious all the time haha XD

>>30927521
>"lol just sac and revenge kill XD"

Just stop, that shit isn't good for argument's sake.

I do agree with you though. The power creep has taken its toll, there is no doubt about it. But playing those slow battles where its literally 50/50 - if they switch, I can try to predict, if they don't, I'm fucked. I agree, there is a war on defensive gameplay. It's so hard to find a good balance. In the end, I agree with Stealth Rocks introduction as a matter of course. Something to counter switching, especially after ADV. Residual damage is good, but SR came in way OP with its typing stuff.

>>30927672
Do you also take the "Swinub used Ice Shard!" in Garchomp threads seriously?

>>30927674
While I admit that I went overboard with that, I'm sure that we all had situations where we HAD to sac a healthy pokemon. I really hate that.

As for switching, it's not really that "50/50". That's where status moves and Substitutes comes in. In Adv you didn't went straight for the HP Grass with your Zapdos, you subbed; if they switch into Swampert, Baton Pass. If they attack, then oh well, you lost 25% health.

There were many options for scouting, and relatively safe plays - you never started a match with a hurry to kill, no point in risking your pokemon so early.

Risky 50/50 plays were for after you know the opponent's team and playstyle and know that you will win if you get rid of a certain pokemon, or if you're playing from behind.

That's the magic in Adv in my opinion. It had a good balance between offense and defense. Matches often ended with a boosted sweeper, but you had to work to make it work.

In my opinion, you should have to put in the effort to make something work, be it a sweeper, a wall or anything in between.

On a sidenote, this hyper offense also created a situation where any worthwhile wall HAS to have a recovery move. THAT's what leads to crazy long matches, as suddenly playing full stall became viable.