>Sun and Moon are much easier than previous generations

actually kinda challenging if you turn EXP share off

>>30915855
And if you use Alola only mons.

>>30915855
Wait a minute, grinding isn't challenging.

Why, that's just a time sink.

>>30915888
But beating the game with an under leveled team is challenging. Just don't grind.

>>30915845
Just spam tail whip and a physical move you absolute retard.

>>30915845
The totem fights were hard, the rest of the fights were easy.

Especially the league

Reasonably tough with exp share off, set mode, and minimal griding.
Fuckers who overlevel and then claim it's too easy have no excuse.

>>30915922
This

I was about 8 levels under e4 and thoughout the game I was constantly underlevelled. I just didn't grind, still fought all trainers. It was great. Nearly wiped often because opponents could easily set up. My highest mon after beating champion was 50

>>30915845
>he didn't use Alola only mons with xp share off

>Pokemon at level 40 when I reach Poni island
>Oh, Hapu wants to battle
>She's a ground user, so I'll send out my A-Ninetales first
>Level 47 A-Dugtrio
fug

>>30915845
in gold i could just destroy everything with my feraligatr when i leveled him up enough

can't really du the same in SM

I cut off seven of my fingers and one thumb and found it was relatively tricky.

>>30915845
The only people who claim Sun and Moon were easy used Exp Share and/or spammed Z Moves.

Granted, it's possible to breeze through every section of the game if you have the right team (Magnemite) but by and large they were the most difficult main games for the vast majority of team compositions to date. To claim otherwise is poor bait, even if you personally breezed through it.

>>30915845
No, they're as easy as X/Y

>>30915845
>Rowlet used Bloom Doom!
>it's super effective!
>Totem Wishiwashi exploded in a mist of gore and blood!

>>30915845
For someone who has been playing since red/green/blue, each generation gets easier because you have more experience. Go look at how much trouble a first timer is having. These games aren't meant to be very challenging in the first place, but the curve drops away with time. The same thing happened with Dark Souls.

>>30916037
0 Atk Rowlet Bloom Doom vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Wishiwashi-School: 18-24 (33.3 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

>>30915888
>i need to grind to beat pokemon

>>30915888
Have you every though of just getting good and not grinding?

>>30915845
Honestly, these are the hardest games in the series to date. That is, this game actually requires you to have a half-decent team composition instead of just blasting through everything with your starter. This is why I love the trials on the 2nd island, there's at least one trial that will fuck over whatever starter you picked with no secondary typing to save you. They did, however, buff x items so there's some importance on buffing your 'mon.

>>30916118
>>30916114
I forgot that a level 1 Wishiwashi only run is possible in Sun & Moon.

>>30916122
>Honestly, these are the hardest games in the series to date.
fucking hell, why is nearly everyone on /vp/ so bad?

The elite 4 can be cheap fags at times (z move 1st attack, multiple full heals on the same pokemon, the cunts fish that uses yawn every other move, etc.) but other than that I didn't find it terribly difficult and I hadn't touched a pokemon game since crystal

>>30916154
Did you read what I said before greentexting like an autist? The difficulty of the totems is entirely dependent on what's on your team. In previous games, most of the gym leaders could get cheesed by just your starter.

I actually almost found myself struggling against a few totem Pokemon and the League. But in fairness, my team was pretty bad.

I think these games did really well in terms of difficulty. They don't just roll over onto their back like every other game, but they also don't do anything unfair.

People who demand the games have crippling difficulty are retarded. Oh wow, you have to grind for longer in the tall grass, whoa, such challenge.

>>30916122
There are currently non-optimized speedruns of Moon that destroy the game with just Popplio and Lunala. So yes, you can still breeze through the game with just your starter and X-item spam.

>>30915922
You can say that about any other game. If you purposely handicap yourself, of course you get a challenge. Of course, the other alternative is level scaling, and I would rather have EXP share be permanently turned on than have that shit.

>>30916154
what would you say is the hardest game in the series?

Note that "hardest Pokémon game" doesn't mean "hard game". It just means hard by Pokémon standards.

>>30916188
and what does that have to do with them not being harder than previous games? This is within the context of pokemon; harder doesn't mean challenging.

>>30915960
This was my experience. While it wasnt hair pullingly hard at any point it was an enjoyable difficulty curve, especially as the levels of the enemies jumped quite a bit in the last island or so

>>30916037
Bloom Doom? The Grass Z Move? That you don't get for another two trials?

>>30916200
>That is, this game actually requires you to have a half-decent team composition instead of just blasting through everything with your starter.

It has to do with this being a completely incorrect statement about the game.

>>30916154
Please tell us which mainline pokemon game you struggled with more.

>>30915845
The biggest change I noticed was the a lot more trainers hit you pretty hard now, even through resists. Maybe most of my team was shit, but they usually weren't terribly underleveled. Apparently most trainers, or at least the big ones, are sporting teams with full EVs and perfect IVs in the important stats, which explains a lot. The only one I specifically recall from older games doing that is Cynthia, but I'm sure there's been others since. Nowhere near as many as in SM, I'd bet.

This compounds if you're playing on set, and means you actually need to plan your switches in a way beyond resists. I ended up hanging onto some Pokemon because they ended up being able to take hits in situations where I was otherwise finding Pokemon taking more damage than was working out on switches.

Some of the level curve was pretty borked, though. Especially when there were several big trainer battles in a row with no actual routes or caves or whatever separating them. If you're okay for the first fight, you're usually underleveled for the third. And the game as a whole jumps on Poni Island.

I ended up switching the EXP Share on and off to keep a level or two behind major battles, but I want to try and go through again ending up much more underleveled and seeing how I might be able to handle things.

It was for me, I beat it in little over a day, rather than my usual 36+ hours.

the game was pretty easy with Water starter since most Kahuna's and E4 were weak to either Water or Fairy..

I played through W2 for the first time recently, under the following rules:
>no extra training, just what I encounter and what trainers I battle
>gen 5 pokemon only (I've got a livingdex in my soulsilver)
>only train pokemon that evolve, but have no catchable or item-triggered final evolution
I had some difficultly with some of the gyms, but funnily enough White Kyurem and the League were pretty easy.

>>30915845
So don't lambaste me out of existence, but I've only played since Gen III and none of them have been hard since then. I have played the remakes of Gen I and II, and those weren't hard, either. They are traditional JRPG's where you can just grind until they are easy. You literally have to impose external restrictions on yourself to even make them difficult.

The only match-up in the entire series that was "difficult" was Mega Metagross (because of raw numbers) in ORAS, and you can still just out level him for the first couple runs through the elite four.

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the true enemy

>>30915845
It having EV distribution on the trainer mons puts it above 70% of the mainline games difficulty wise

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>>30915845
>It's hard if you don't use Exp Share, Z-Moves, Pokemon with more than 300 BST or items :^)

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>>30916028
Criminally underrated. I almost spit coffee on my keyboard.

>>30915845
>Totem Wishiwashi used Growl!
>Wishiwashi used Helping Hand!
>Totem Wishiwashi used Growl!
>Totem Wishiwashi used Growl!
Seriously that's all it did, it hasn't attacked once in the whole fight.

>>30916188
>speedruns of Moon that destroy the game with just Popplio
So you mean just like anyother speedrun of Pokemon. Got it.

>>30916548
No one's really saying the games are hard in an absolute sense, just that SM require more out of you than people were expecting. People have been bemoaning how "easy" Pokemon has been getting for a little while now, so it's not so surprising when you get this sort of turn around when the game provides even a token level of new challenge to it.

Most people who are gimping themselves aren't doing it to ridiculous nuzlocke levels either. They're just turning off the EXP Share and putting the battle type on set, options the game gives you. The other factor is not grinding, which is not so much gimping yourself as not going out of your way to overlevel yourself.

There's also still problems like this: >>30916605
For some people, some of the battles aren't going to be all that hard because something gets fucked in the AI and they keep spamming moves that don't make much sense. I had that happen with the final Lusamine fight where her team just kept spamming Pain Split, even when it straight up healed me and hurt her. Supposedly stuff like this happens much in the same way they'd spam status moves in Gen I if the nominal type of the move was super effective against you: they were programmed to do something "smart," but the actual situation it's used in is bum fuck retarded.

Sun and Moon were not hard games. But they switched up enough to unbalance a some people who got too complacent with the older ones. It's not a universal experience, but common enough to get a certain level of response about in the community.

>>30915981
Basically this, there's a huge level jump after Aether

Wishiwashi was piss easy with my Petilil.
I'd gotten lucky and got a Leftovers from a Munchlax earlier on, so with it plus Mega Drain/Leech Seed/Sleep Powder/Growth it got destroyed.

>>30916637
Yes, actually. Sun and Moon, just like any other Pokemon game, can be beaten with just your starter and some items. Which, by extension, means Sun and Moon are also just as easy or hard as every other Pokemon game based on how you play and what your luck is like.

My main issue was that my team was so slow and a little underleveled that it was hard to stop some things from wiping half of my team

>>30916653
Thank you for the reasonable and robust response. I agree with your summation a lot more than some non-explicit thing like OP, which has been going around. It is 4chan, so people will be fucking stupid given the chance.

>>30916605
they should have just stuck water gun as its only move. it actually is tough when it attacks often

>>30916576
Just EXP share off is enough. Even at equal levels it can be really hard, Guzma took out 5 out 6 of my Pokemon

>>30916563

The fight gets easier when there's a Castform summoned because it's not a Trumbeak with 100% accurate Supersonic

>>30916037
Try again sir
Literally do not get Grassium till two trials after
I know it was bait

>>30915845
No gen one was easiest.

they're harder than any gen 6 or gen 5 game. Easier than anything else.

I am talking about playing normally and not all the retarded self handicap shit people like to force.

>>30919137
Reminder that not trading yourself a lv100 mon at the start ALSO is handicapping yourself.

>>30919189
Not really, because you need to go out of your way to do that. The game itself doesn't just hand you a lv100 Pokemon.

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>"Oh his ace is Garfield this gonna be easy"
>he then proceeds to wreck your shit

>>30919219
It still is gimping yourself. They give you the means to use one, it means you HAVE to use one.

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>>30915888
every time

Totem Mimikyu was the toughest. Fucking Lum Berry caught me off guard.
Totem Wishiwashi would have been tough but I just had Brionne Encore it into Growl.

>use non stab charge beam once with an non over leveled misdreavus
>does more than 50% damage
>wishiwashi used water gun
>does slightly over 25% damage l

Pretty sure my misdreavus had terrible IVs too since it didn't hit anything else hard, even with SE moves.

You people overhyped that battle for me, it was a huge disappointment.

Even the Gumgoose battle was harder, despite.

>>30915845
>Wishiwashi totem
>challenge

What?

>>30919301
I literally one shot all of Nanu's Pokemon with Brick Break on my angrey bird. Same with Oliva and damn near the same with Hapu. The Kahunas were all absolute shit.

The totems, however, kicked my ass even when I brought a strong type if I didn't plan for their synergy. I hope we never go back to gyms because fighting against trainers is boring, predictable, and shitty.

>>30915888
EXP share off + minimal thoughts about team building + catching all new pokemon in a route before moving on = No grinding.

>>30916037
Dumbass.

>>30915845
>wah my children's game isn't hard!
Pokemon has always been brain dead easy.

>>30915855
And if you don't fucking grind 5 hours before each trial.

Seriously I was always like mostly 2 levels below or at most the same level as each kahuna/totem and the game was so much more fun.
People just need to realise you aren't really suppose to grind anymore.

>>30915845
You just posted a good example of that. A Fomantis with Razor Leaf was enough for me to beat it.

>>30919325
They give me the means but it still doesn't just hand me a lv100 Pokemon. I need to go out of my way to find someone willing to trade one.

>>30919358

It really only gets annoying when Alomomola spams heal pulse.

>>30916131

You get exp from the trainers you do beat, einstein

>>30916450
>>gen 5 pokemon only (I've got a livingdex in my soulsilver)

That's fucking boring. I don't say it because I hate gen 5, but because you were already forced to do that in BW, B2W2 added variety, so might as well use it.

>>30915845
and? new generations of children.

>>30915981
Fuck
>Pulls out Gastrodon
>Basically no Grass type in party at the moment

>>30916799
Water Gun and Feint Attack.

1. Turn Exp. Share on
2. Raise affection to at least 2 hearts
3. ???
4. Profit

>>30915845
Pokémon games difficulty kinda blends. They are all so braindeadly easy that I am unable to compare them.

>>30921262
Correction: I played gen 5 for the first time, on W2

>>30915845
With the exp share: they are
Without the exp share: they're on par with Sinnoh

>>30916029
My team was horribly redundant for most of the game. Last minute I replaced my a-raichu and kaiju bug for a salamence and kommo-o (replaced the the salamence for sun lion but didn't get to use it), and still amost got my shit kicked in. My magnezone and slowbro saved my ass the entire run.

>>30919137
>or gen 5 game.
>Harder than the hardest gen
For the record it's only hard if you don't use any mon from the previous generation simply because Alola pokemon are for the most part slow and weak.

>charjabug used spark

>>30916002
you dumb french phoneposter

>>30916932
Sir, that Trumbeak did the unexpected against my Salandit. A Rock Blast. I didn't spoil me anything about the game and that took me by surprise, my Plan A was doomed so I had to put plan B in motion.

After killing that damned bird, I was rejoicing that Dartrix and Rimbombee would be able to do it. Enter Castform and I was in a world of pain.

You know what did it for me? Torment from Persian on the Totem. That meme move saved me the fight, else Lurantis would have been my first defeat since Cynthia.

Luckily that was the only point I was threatened. No grind, no exp share, and game was Ok. Way harder than Unova and Kalos, that's for sure, but nowhere near the levels genwunners claim to have been, and I'm pretty sure that's because there were less info on those days, plus you know, most being kids and not adults like we are.

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>>30916037
>being this fucking retarded

I'm willing to bet a lot of the people who complain about how easy the series is don't play on Set

>>30915845
>Wishiwashi used soak!
>Wishiwashi used water gun!
>it's not very effective....

Yeah real hard game bro.
Seriously even if you ignore the exp share and the friendship game shit it's still auto-pilot. None of these niggers have more than two pokemon lol.

I think I blacked out once, because I thought totem pokemon could just call for help indefinitely so the fucking bird confuse me as the mantis slammed out solar blades.

>>30915922
This all the way.

I beat Soul Silver with my highest leveled mon being the Lugia through story progression. The lowest members on my team who did shit are level 39.

>>30916791
fuck (you), (you) dumb fart.
>fuck (you), (you) dumb fart.

>>30922025
WTF are you smoking? Gen 5 isn't the hardest. Literally the only hard fight in the entire gen is Ghetsis in BW1. 5th gen is what started the nonsense of gyms being limited to 3 pokemon and E4 being limited to 4 pokemon.

>>30919465
>People just need to realise you aren't really suppose to grind anymore.

Pokemon games are about catching pokemon, which involves grinding.

>>30922862
So which game is harder than this one?