Is the hate for gen 2 really deserved?

I enjoyed the games, but it just had the worst Pokemon roster in the series imo.

>>30871054
From GF?

No

>>30871054
No, I think it built on RBY really well. It added a lot of features, let you revisit Kanto 2 years later, and tied up all the loose ends of the story.

it definitely has its flaws, namely
>level curve
>rare johto pokemon, and pokemon you can't find until post game
>kanto is butchered (although this is due to hardware limitations, I'm still glad they included it)

but for its time I think it's pretty much everything you could want out of a sequel game. crystal's level tiered battle tower is a lot of fun as well

>>30871054
No running shoes makes all pre g3 games crap.

>>30871054
Is the hate for any gen deserved?
Some came with errors, but I think hating a gen is really petty.

>>30872310
The hate is warranted when no fixes are made to the gen. Like gen 6. Kalos got no fix and or as was a flop.

>>30872377
> he cant stop hating on gen6
here we go again.
Tell me how bland the bad guys were and how uninteresting and easy the main story is.

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>>30871054
Gen 2 had really good designs but a lot of pokemon need buffs. Too bad GF will never touch anything from Johto again.
No, giving Ledian +10 attack or whatever doesn't count.

>>30871054
Hate? No.
Eye rolling when fanboys want to act like it was flawless, absolutely.

The hate? Gen2 is the best.

>>30872413
You made up a whole lot of shit there and are arguing with hallucinations of what you think I said.
Kalos got no fixes and oras was a step back from emerald. You should learn how to read before flapping your gums nigger.

>>30872413
Tell me why I should play Kalos again

What does it have over other regions especially now without wifi

>>30872290

Just hold the space bar, friend. :^)

>>30872419
I like the idea that johto is home to weaker pokemon, i mean skarmory the most viable of them looks like he came from hoenn (and indeed you catch him there) and scizor is not a natural evolution.

>>30872514
not the guy you're talking to, but there's nothing it has over oras/sm now. I'd still replay it because I like its towns (anistar and snowbelle, namely) and it has a bit more fashion selection than SM. it could have used a polished version, absolutely

>>30872413
Are those not valid points?

Uninteresting characters, literal who champion, trash music compared to literally every entry before it, tiny as fuck new Pokémon roster, awful villain team, super easy with Set mode on and exp share off.

At least ORAS still had the good music and its nice roster. And tutors.

Gen 2 is just Gen 1.5

There is barely anything new and all the gym leaders use Gen 1 Pokemon. Everything about this gen is over shadow by Gen 1.

The Starters sucks as well except the Totodile line, Chikorita line is one of the worst starters ever and Cyndaquil line is one of the most overrated and bad design one.

>>30872571
they are all valid but that guys point was "g6 was a shitpile because it never got revamped" and its true, kalos needed the z version and ruby/saph were by far the weakest remake to date

>>30872582
>barely anything new

That's just not true. It introduced hold items, day/night, cross-gen evolutions, a battle facility, breeding and egg moves, and obviously a new region + pokemon, albeit rare ones.

You can complain about the prominence of gen 1 pokemon and the level scale, but to say that there's barely anything new is just a lie. It introduced a lot of things that it didn't have to and that you wouldn't have expected in comparison to RBY.

>>30871054
Gen II introduced some of the best things in the series, but it is really, really bad. Especially the region, characters and story. The best, and the only good character was Silver.

>>30872634
Yea but Gen 2 was just everything the Game developers couldn't include in Gen 1. Compared to Gen 3, Gen 2 didn't bring anything new.

>>30872673
Source: your ass

>>30872582
>2 new types
>split special stat
>Day and Night system
>Hold items
>Happiness (for all Pokémon)
>rematches
>shinies
>swarms
>move deleter
>move reminder (in Stadium 2)
>move tutors

(You)

>>30872718
>>move deleter
Yellow.

>>30871054
I've always looked at it as just an expansion pack for gen 1. Gen 1.5, basically. I just can't shake this notion.

I don't actually think anyone hates Gen 2, I think people just ignore it entirely.
It's practically my favorite, though. Literally perfect starters (a e s t h e t i c a l l y), a great Pokedex that more or less continues Gen 1's design principals of keeping things simple and animalistic, and a ton of shit to do. They definitely did a lot of things wrong, but it was their second go and it was an amazing and vast improvement over their first attempt.

>>30872673
>compared to a newer game that came 2 years later, an older game doesn't have anything new

I can't take you seriously with that logic

besides, it's not like RS could manage to include day/night or the full pokedex

>>30872754
Let me know where you find one

>>30872762
gen 2 starters are way too boring. they aren't gen 5 bad though

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>>30872754

>>30872290
Am I the only one who finds the base walking speed in gens 1-2 fine? It was definitely faster than gen 4's walking speed, possibly even faster than gen 4's running. And it was typical for its time. Same as Earthbound without the bicycle. I will concede gen 3's speed WAS an improvement though.

>>30871054
>Worst starters
>Boring region
>Worst story
>Worst Gym Leaders
>Worst evil team
>Worst new Pokemon
>Worst level curve
>Champion is too easy
>Kanto postgame is extremely boring

These aren't all just memes. These are all actual problem with Johto. Now, GSC are the probably the games I've played the most, and I will have a special place for it in my heart, so I personally don't find it bad at all. But comparing it any other generation, you can see the problems.
Gen II introduced a few great mechanics, like breeding and day/night cycles, but failed to make games where those mechanics were actually fun to play with.
Gen IV improved Silver, and gave use Platinum's Battle Frontier and Pokemon following you, which are all great things, but all of those issues I listed weren't fixed at all. They are bad games, compared to the rest of the series.

>>30872956
>Boring region
>Worst story
>Worst Gym Leaders
>Worst evil team
>Worst new Pokemon
>Worst level curve
>Champion is too easy

Didn't know we were talking about XY here

>>30872956
Be careful anon, HGSS fanboys are going to find you. With that said, I agree with every single point.

>>30872956
Anon, I mostly agree with you but c'mon. As solid as your points are,

>Worst Gym Leaders
>Worst evil team

both of these are unquestionably XY.

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>>30872956
>Worst Gym Leaders
Not when this qt is in the game.

>>30872956
I don't know Gen 2 is a boring region, but Gen 4 isn't. Snowpoint and Sunnyshore are the only places that stand out.

>>30872956
>Worst story
GSC has the best story so far. You experience Johto as a living region with it's own problems yet you are not directly involved in them (maybe in the radio tower). Now it's all about being the chosen one and saving the world/universe by catching the legendary box and defeating the evil team.
HGSS did fix a lot of issues with the original as you said, but in my opinion, it ruined the story of Ho-oh/Lugia by telling it instead of showing it in a subtle way like GSC did.

>>30873065
Eh, they have some memorable things about them, even if not positive ones. They have some character. People know who Lysandre is, even if for the wrong reasons. Archer is a literally who.
I agree on the Gym Leaders part though. XY had the worst.

>>30873080
you can't even lick her pussy until the remakes

Gen 2 is even more overrated than Gen 1 here.

>>30873185
I literally can't remember any XY gym leaders other than the fairy girl

According to the poll, gen 2 is /vp/'s second favourite gen, so what are you talking about OP you faggot

gen 2 is the best gen so no

>>30873166
Subtle =/= always better
The only story Johto had was about Team Rocket struggling to stay alive. You encounter them three times, and none of it important. What's worse is the other NPCs were going to take care of the problem anyway. You weren't even needed.

A good example of a subtle story is Gen I. It had no connection to Red, but the events that took place were more important and interesting. They had bigger consequences. Red's involvement was necessary, as no one else could've stopped them. Just them kidnapping Dr. Fuji and robbing a house were a bigger, better events than anything the new Team Rocket did in Johto except for taking over Goldenrod.

>Level Curve meme

People who did not play HGSS

>>30872290
I've found the underage.

The map was designed around its walking speed so it feels fine.

>>30872582
Holy fuck, the edge is real.
Being a contrarian doesn't make you cool.

>>30873080
Whitney was good for her Miltank Jugs

>>30873244
>here
in the rest of the world gen 1 wins.

>>30873339
>What's worse is the other NPCs were going to take care of the problem anyway. You weren't even needed.

That makes sense, though. Of course other people would try to solve a problem in their own town. You were needed at any rate, since Kurt hurt himself. I don't think GSC necessarily has the best story, but I like how things were happening on their own regardless of whether you were there or not, that makes the world seem alive. I prefer that to a few big characters that wait for you to make an appearance personally (ex. N).

>>30873253
>Valerie
>More memorable than Clemont and Korrina
Come on, anon. Don't be ridiculous. Even if you like Johto, you don't have to lie on a Chinese message board.

>>30873438
But that's just plain wrong. How does an NPC adult beating TR make the world more alive? It would've been the same if it was done by a kid you control. What is the difference? Diminishing the role of main character does not build up the world more. Sure, it gave some other characters some time to shine, but that goes on to contradict other scenarios where these NPCs do nothing, which makes it even worse.

On one instance, a Gym Leader is helping a Pokemon who lights up the Lighthouse out of good will, and on another, you have a random old man fighting TR, while the Gym Leader of the town does nothing.
On one instance, the Champion himself is fighting TR to stop forced evolution, but when TR takes over a full town, the Champion or the Gym Leader of the town does nothing.

This is not making the world feel alive. It's the opposite. It's making the world feel like a game where nothing is going to happen unless the play does something.
Even Kanto, the region with almost no dialogue, did it better than Johto. When TR robs a house, there is actually a police officer there, although Red takes care of the Grunt before he has the chance to do anything. When TR takes over Saffron, no one really knows about it, so it makes sense no help arrived. Unlike Goldenrod, where literally everyone in the region knows about it.

Just seeing people run around in Castelia City, or seeing Brendan move to Hoenn and seeing a man be robbed by Team Aqua makes the world feel more alive than anything in Johto.

>>30873204
>you can't even lick her pussy until the remakes
what did you mean by this?
>>30873405
M I L K
I
L
K

Why do you fags hate Chikorita? She's great!

>>30873688
>Diminishing the role of main character does not build up the world more
The point of the main character was always to beat the E4 but the game is boring if you just do this

>>30873923
>she

>>30874032
Ash's Bayleef was his girlfriend,literraly,

The only right things they did with HG/SS was add GB sounds. They didn't fix the level curve, they only made slight changes to the gym leaders rosters (why doesn't morty have a misdreavus?), and Kanto is still an empty wasteland.

The only reason I would ever play hg/ss would be to use the cross gen evos but there are g/s/c romhacks that add them in anyways.

>>30873688
>But that's just plain wrong. How does an NPC adult beating TR make the world more alive?
I just told you: because it conveys that TR doesn't exist in a vacuum that exists solely for the player. And it's not that the NPC beats TR, it's that he tries to fend them off. Having you beat them is integral to the game, obviously, but seeing that other characters in the game react to current events is what helps liven up the world you explore. That doesn't mean you must implement a dichotomy where either every character and gym leader always MUST do either something or nothing at all, but if you see it here and there (Lance as well), it adds to the world.

>>30874151
I still think having NPCs react only sometimes is not a good thing, but for the sake of the argument, let's just say it is.
How does that make Johto any special? It does it much less than any other game in the series. The anon's original point, that it has the worst story, still applies if other games are doing it better.